Ok, so... Played against amulet combo for the first time today (with MonoG). Does anyone sideboard anything special for this matchup? I guess Guttural response for the dismembers and maybe natures claims instead of blessings?
I personally almost never take out my Apostle's Blessings. They are a protection card and can make your dude unblockable as well. You definitely want your Nature's Claims in, though, and I usually will side out my Mutagenic Growths for them. I make that switch pretty much every match to have something against Spellskite. But you wanna be fast and Amulet plays zero removal, so siding out Blessing might be correct. Guttural Response isn't really going to hit a lot of things against Amulet and I wouldn't side out your Dismembers for them. You wanna keep them in so you can kill Azusa, Lost but Seeking and maybe double Dismember a Primeval Titan if you're lucky. Mono Green is a pretty good matchup against Amulet. You just gotta be fast.
Not having to care about life totals is great in this match-up! Game 1 was over fast with his god hand of Serra Ascendant into Martyr of Sands while being on the play. Not having the Dismember was game. Won games 2 and 3 with extra Dismember sided in to stop the Ajani's Pridemate.
All in all not that bad for a first time. The deck plays quite consistent, having the pump from the lands is nice for the longer games. I was content with the way I played it, especially against the control decks where keeping the protection open is key. The match against the G/W hatebears was terrible.. Any way how I could play this better in the future? I really had no chance against the deck yesterday.
hatebears is pretty unwinnable, its america control on steroids.
its not played online as much, which makes it easier for most of the people here. it also rarely see's high end play its more of a local game store deck.
lingering souls, shuts off your inkmoth, especially with a thalia on the field and so many maindeck hate agaisnt you, like the path to exiles which really sucks when you tap 6 land just to get your 2 mutagenic growth in.
one thing to watch for is the untapped noble hierarchs and all of the fetch lands they run. don't swing into a resto angel flash if they have a fetch, a noble hierarch untapped.
also the guy out here runs a playset of goyf idk if you guy locally does, so if you need to hold those pump spells back to weaken that goyf since thalia pretty much shuts off dismember, or a resto angel blinking a goyf so you don't have a target
there are a few more combat tricks but basically play around it and hope to count to 10.
if you're playing at a high level event its a non-issue though, like at a GP if you have those 2 byes probably won't run into the deck
Hatebears is the reason I run 2 necropedes in the side. Keep in mind most hate bears are only rolling with 1/1's. So necropede trades 2 for 1 a lot of the time. With only 4 real ways to remove creatures (POE), I find the matchup to be slightly reasonable. Especially with the natural pumps from our lands, its pretty tough for them. I like to save my vines and what not for their ghost quarter on my ink moth. I also rarely see hate bears with lingering souls unless they are BW hate bears which I find to be so much worse (tide hollow sculler is a boss). But either way me and my good friend test UG infect and UG hate bears (with tarmo) a lot, and I find I am slightly favored pre board, and then unfavored post board. Just be fast and always use your pumps. The quicker they get to 8 or 9 infect, the more you force them to make bad blocks (in my experience). Obviously play smart with pumps, but if I have the chance to get 6 in on turn 2 I will take it (if I am not playing around Path to exile).
^ G/W is the "real" hate bears. idk what UG is, but it sounds like it is an easy matchup since thalia, path, lingering souls (usually a side board card) are not there to lock you out. you also lose a lot of land utility when you cut out white. I don't think your friend is running hatebears, just a deck he brewed up to hate on your infect deck. like the weird america control brews running around like the one that used scry lands and theros gods rather than vendillion cliques, snapcaster mages and fetchlands...that someone played once and claimed america control is nothing compared to infect. (go into the other sub-forums on here and look up the real decklists of the full power decks they are few and far between since modern isn't a huge format but they do exist usually with the older crowd)
I meant GW hate bears, I was at work, typing fast and I typed UG twice. But I still don't have a huge issue with GW hate bears as UG infect. I can see mono-green infect being much worse in the matchup for a number of reasons, but you make that sacrifice for stronger match ups elsewhere. That said UG has a number of options, namely blighted agent. As long as you aren't playing blighted agent out without some form of protection, there really shouldn't be an issue. It's not like hate bears has a super fast clock. You can hold off until turn 4 play him, have vines/blessing backup even with a thalia out (assuming you haven't dismembered her), and then next turn untap and just fly past those 1/1 tokens. You could also try a BUG build with illness in the ranks in the sideboard which has worked to quite a bit of success. All I know, is I have spoken with Tom Ross about this matchup (ONLY with regard to his build) and he believes the matchup favors UG infect both pre and post board.
lingering souls creates flying tokens. I would think tom ross' list likes the matchup he gets force of wills and daze which provides interaction rather than just being hated by GW. his modern list doesn't look to be up to snuff
with thalia out you should not be able to play a dismember and a blighted agent and vines
dismember would be a 5 cmc spell with 2 phyrex mana, blighted agent is 2 cmc, then your vines is a 4 cmc spell
lingering souls creates flying tokens. I would think tom ross' list likes the matchup he gets force of wills and daze which provides interaction rather than just being hated by GW. his modern list doesn't look to be up to snuff
with thalia out you should not be able to play a dismember and a blighted agent and vines
dismember would be a 5 cmc spell with 2 phyrex mana, blighted agent is 2 cmc, then your vines is a 4 cmc spell
'goyf makes it a 4 turn clock
Might want to check your facts.
Thalia makes Blighted agent cost 2, dismember cost 4, and vines cost 3. So total, 2+2+3+2phy= 7 mana, 2 life.
Why not sideboard Blind Obedience? Extort may come in handy occasionally to get that extra turn or two, it gives an open swing against lingering, shuts down twins combo, puts pod a turn behind, and slows down affinity quite a bit if they don't drop their hand turn one. Sure it dies to Abrupt Decay but what doesn't? Qasali Pridemage will kill it but that will mean that lingering or whatever else is a turn later than it would have been, and ever extra turn infect gets in is potentially lethal to the opponent.
Wait, what? You'd have to splash white for it or rely on having a hierarch. It also doesn't really help and isn't worth the deck spot. I'd rather run Distortion Strike if you want some evasion.
@overlord: Infect lists balance speed vs resiliency. Whenever you cut a creature and add a pump spell, you are increasing the decks speed, but lowering its resiliency.
Given that, we can ask, what are conventional bad matchups for infect? The answer is decks that prey on its relatively low resilency with cards like path/dismember/bolt i.e. jund/junk/twin.
This type of deck will improve your 'good' matchups while making your bad ones worse. I have a good win % vs UWR, in part because I avoid cards like distortion strike and assault strobe.
If you really want to run RUG, Id start by cutting those distortion strikes and a strobe, and add 3 ichorclaw myr, which has good synergy with ghor-clan. if you do that, you want to strongly consider cutting mutagenic growth for rancor, and adding 1-2 more protection effects or gitaxian probes.
Another option is to try and get clever and run slaughterhorn, with the plan of using regular damage plus assault strobe to kill with ordinary damage a reasonable fraction of the time.
My bad on the Thalia, I forgot most of my matchups against the deck also run the artifact that does the same thing and I falsely accused Thalia as the 2/3 enabler.
Twin isn't too bad for infect. Neither is storm but both decks are more reliable as they go off quickly and effectively.
Infect kind of needs a Glistener and pump in the hand and a muligan reduces your chances of surviving on game 2 or 3. For the newer players that's what we use to establish tiers. There are a lot of turn 1 kill decks in modern that are tier 4 because they don't really work unless it has the perfect hand.
Just because infect is capable of a turn 2 or 3 win does not mean it's the best deck ever. It's hard to explain to newer/ younger players. Turn 2 is cool and all but a turn 2 necropede that was path to exiled..on a muligan to 5..a card that is a 3 of in a sealed product hoses your chances at winning game 1, turn 2 thought seize or inquisition and boom you lose...not very hard...
JUND is the best deck in modern hands down, when you stare at a JUND deck across the table you know why your deck is $75 on tcg mid and theirs is $3000 in tcg mid not counting foils....JUND is that ******* good.
A lot of people here have never played it just do to the sheer price f it. But there are 2 players with it in my meta and...****....I hate when they show up. These dudes have money. I can't stand the kids who grab $20 worth of cards from the bulk bin go 2-3 or 3-2 at an fnm against ***** like vampire tribal or mono green devotion on a high school kid budget then claim that infect has amazing matchups against amazing decks you used to see on the protour and how infect is the best deck ever..
It's the same crowd that pushes dabbled red in standard
I love love love rampager, in part because he deals with Spellskite.
Assault Strobe is bad though. I've tried and there's no room plus it's sorcery. I could see it SB against something like Tron which is slow as molasses. Other than that everything should be pump or protection.
UB Faries seem to be occurring more on cockatrice and I'm struggling against them post sideboard cause they have so much hate with -1/-1 removal, counters, and tokens for chump blocking. Any tips?
I'm running Mono green. Slowly, but surely, transitioning into U/G (Only acquired 2/4 noble heirarch atm). I find myself siding -4 mutagenic, -2 dismember, +2 nature's claim, +2 sylvan (0 in MB), and + 2 ranger's guile. Bitterblossom becomes a troubling issue when my only 2 evasions are rancor and apostle's.
UB Faries seem to be occurring more on cockatrice and I'm struggling against them post sideboard cause they have so much hate with -1/-1 removal, counters, and tokens for chump blocking. Any tips?
oh cockatrice players picked up on the deck that explains why the more recent posts have been...not of uniform quality. well guys, KTK fetches, infect it's been nice knowing ya!
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I personally almost never take out my Apostle's Blessings. They are a protection card and can make your dude unblockable as well. You definitely want your Nature's Claims in, though, and I usually will side out my Mutagenic Growths for them. I make that switch pretty much every match to have something against Spellskite. But you wanna be fast and Amulet plays zero removal, so siding out Blessing might be correct. Guttural Response isn't really going to hit a lot of things against Amulet and I wouldn't side out your Dismembers for them. You wanna keep them in so you can kill Azusa, Lost but Seeking and maybe double Dismember a Primeval Titan if you're lucky. Mono Green is a pretty good matchup against Amulet. You just gotta be fast.
UG Infect
Modern
UG Infect
GW Infect
EDH
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Pendelhaven
4 Cathedral of War
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
2 Ranger's Guile
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing
3 Rancor
2 Dismember
2 Gutteral Response
2 Dismember
2 Viridian Corrupter
4 Nature's Claim
4 Tormod's Crypt
Round 1 - Soul Sisters (2-1) : 1-0-0
Not having to care about life totals is great in this match-up! Game 1 was over fast with his god hand of Serra Ascendant into Martyr of Sands while being on the play. Not having the Dismember was game. Won games 2 and 3 with extra Dismember sided in to stop the Ajani's Pridemate.
Round 2 - G/W Hatebears (0-2) : 1-1-0
How I hate this deck.. With so many Ghost Quarter, Qasali Pridemage and in both games a turn 2 or 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben I had no chance to win this. Sided in Dismember and artifact removal to deal with Æther Vial and the hate but I still couldn't do anything.
Round 3 - UBR Control (2-0) : 2-1-0
He played a deck with a big counter and removal suite, going for the win with Batterskull. Both matches I was able to play around most counters with Inkmoth Nexus and Pendelhaven / Cathedral of War. Having an extra answer (Ranger's Guile) against Lightning Bolt and friends was key.
Round 4 - UWR Midrange (2-1) : 3-1-0
Midrange deck with Geist of Saint Traft. Won game 1, winning after preventing being wiped by Pyroclasm with 2 Mutagenic Growth to save my two Glistener Elf. That was the highlight and won me the game right after. Game 2 I started fast but ended in drawing 5 turns of lands so lost that one. Game 3 was over T3 with T1 Cathedral of War, T2 Ichorclaw Myr and T3 a double Groundswell.
All in all not that bad for a first time. The deck plays quite consistent, having the pump from the lands is nice for the longer games. I was content with the way I played it, especially against the control decks where keeping the protection open is key. The match against the G/W hatebears was terrible.. Any way how I could play this better in the future? I really had no chance against the deck yesterday.
its not played online as much, which makes it easier for most of the people here. it also rarely see's high end play its more of a local game store deck.
lingering souls, shuts off your inkmoth, especially with a thalia on the field and so many maindeck hate agaisnt you, like the path to exiles which really sucks when you tap 6 land just to get your 2 mutagenic growth in.
one thing to watch for is the untapped noble hierarchs and all of the fetch lands they run. don't swing into a resto angel flash if they have a fetch, a noble hierarch untapped.
also the guy out here runs a playset of goyf idk if you guy locally does, so if you need to hold those pump spells back to weaken that goyf since thalia pretty much shuts off dismember, or a resto angel blinking a goyf so you don't have a target
there are a few more combat tricks but basically play around it and hope to count to 10.
if you're playing at a high level event its a non-issue though, like at a GP if you have those 2 byes probably won't run into the deck
with thalia out you should not be able to play a dismember and a blighted agent and vines
dismember would be a 5 cmc spell with 2 phyrex mana, blighted agent is 2 cmc, then your vines is a 4 cmc spell
'goyf makes it a 4 turn clock
Might want to check your facts.
Thalia makes Blighted agent cost 2, dismember cost 4, and vines cost 3. So total, 2+2+3+2phy= 7 mana, 2 life.
You also don't have enough mana to extort anyway
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Breeding Pool
2 Stomping Grounds
2 Forest
2 Pendlehaven
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Heirarch
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Groundswell
4 Might of old Krosa
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Assault Strobe
2 Distortion Strike
2 Apostle's Blessing
Given that, we can ask, what are conventional bad matchups for infect? The answer is decks that prey on its relatively low resilency with cards like path/dismember/bolt i.e. jund/junk/twin.
This type of deck will improve your 'good' matchups while making your bad ones worse. I have a good win % vs UWR, in part because I avoid cards like distortion strike and assault strobe.
If you really want to run RUG, Id start by cutting those distortion strikes and a strobe, and add 3 ichorclaw myr, which has good synergy with ghor-clan. if you do that, you want to strongly consider cutting mutagenic growth for rancor, and adding 1-2 more protection effects or gitaxian probes.
Another option is to try and get clever and run slaughterhorn, with the plan of using regular damage plus assault strobe to kill with ordinary damage a reasonable fraction of the time.
Twin isn't too bad for infect. Neither is storm but both decks are more reliable as they go off quickly and effectively.
Infect kind of needs a Glistener and pump in the hand and a muligan reduces your chances of surviving on game 2 or 3. For the newer players that's what we use to establish tiers. There are a lot of turn 1 kill decks in modern that are tier 4 because they don't really work unless it has the perfect hand.
Just because infect is capable of a turn 2 or 3 win does not mean it's the best deck ever. It's hard to explain to newer/ younger players. Turn 2 is cool and all but a turn 2 necropede that was path to exiled..on a muligan to 5..a card that is a 3 of in a sealed product hoses your chances at winning game 1, turn 2 thought seize or inquisition and boom you lose...not very hard...
JUND is the best deck in modern hands down, when you stare at a JUND deck across the table you know why your deck is $75 on tcg mid and theirs is $3000 in tcg mid not counting foils....JUND is that ******* good.
A lot of people here have never played it just do to the sheer price f it. But there are 2 players with it in my meta and...****....I hate when they show up. These dudes have money. I can't stand the kids who grab $20 worth of cards from the bulk bin go 2-3 or 3-2 at an fnm against ***** like vampire tribal or mono green devotion on a high school kid budget then claim that infect has amazing matchups against amazing decks you used to see on the protour and how infect is the best deck ever..
It's the same crowd that pushes dabbled red in standard
Assault Strobe is bad though. I've tried and there's no room plus it's sorcery. I could see it SB against something like Tron which is slow as molasses. Other than that everything should be pump or protection.
It's a rough match-up since they have a lot of removal and hand disruption. You need unblockable or trample effects (for blue, green respectively).
You play around removal by getting in chip damage and not tapping out unless it's for the win
oh cockatrice players picked up on the deck that explains why the more recent posts have been...not of uniform quality. well guys, KTK fetches, infect it's been nice knowing ya!