Oh man, I'm embarrassed. I've played a lot of 2-mans with Hunt the Hunter in my side as a 4-of only to find it ONLY works with my Glistener Elf and only against Melira. Terrible card. I had it in my 60 game 2 against Burn. Embarrassing. Read cards, all.
Infect's mana curve is very low, so you don't have a lot of space for 2-mana pumps. If, for whatever reason, you need trample+pump at 2 mana, you can play Predator's Strike without having to splash.
On another note, the 18 land + 4 Vial version 3-1ed another Daily. I think that Vial is worse than Noble Hierarch, but I'm interested to see how long this version can stick around.
I'm thinking about getting into modern infect, and am wondering whether anyone has thought aboutRunechanter's Pike? With all the pump spells we play, It will get very big very quickly and could give us some later game potential on the back of a nexus. Also, the first strike it gives is very nice on creatures with infect.
Also, could a white splash be useful in this deck?
I also doubt that it would greatly destabilize the manabase. Even without fetches, a deck could run eight white/green sources that would come into play untapped (Razorverge Thicket and Temple Garden).
I also doubt that it would greatly destabilize the manabase. Even without fetches, a deck could run eight white/green sources that would come into play untapped (Razorverge Thicket and Temple Garden).
Might not be worth it, just an idea.
Thoughts?
I'm running a W splash version in paper, Qasali Pridemage is a very good card in the deck.
I also doubt that it would greatly destabilize the manabase. Even without fetches, a deck could run eight white/green sources that would come into play untapped (Razorverge Thicket and Temple Garden).
Might not be worth it, just an idea.
Thoughts?
I'm running a W splash version in paper, Qasali Pridemage is a very good card in the deck.
Pike is worse than Livewire Lash most of the time and Lash rarely gets played.
As for the white splash,
1 (Removal): There isn't much difference between Path and Dismember. Oust is bad because it doesn't deal with Twin.
2 (Protection): You already have up to 8 protection spells main (4 each of Apostle's Blessing and Vines of Vastwood) so you don't really need more.
3 (Affinity hate): True, Stony Silence is much better than Creeping Corrosion because of the difference in mana cost. Corrosion is decent in BUG because none of your Infect guys are artifact creatures and you have Noble Hierarch to accelerate it out.
4 (Pridemage): I don't see the need for another Naturalize effect when you already have 4 Nature's Claim in the SB. If you do need it, Seal of Primordium is very similar and doesn't require white mana - in fact it can be even better, because your opponent can burn Pridemage and then cast whatever artifact/enchantment he wants to play.
5 (Sejiri Steppe): I don't think Steppe is very good; you can't get the protection effect at instant speed, which is crucial. If you have pump spell + Blessing for example, you can cast the pump first, then respond with Blessing if your opponent uses removal. Whereas if you have pump spell + Steppe, you can't beat your opponent's removal (if it isn't toughness-based, like Path) regardless of whether you Steppe-first-then-pump or just pump.
So in short, I don't think the white splash is worth it. Although I have heard of playing UGw Infect and boarding into Geist of Saint Traft, lol (not that I think that is a good idea either).
4 (Pridemage): I don't see the need for another Naturalize effect when you already have 4 Nature's Claim in the SB. If you do need it, Seal of Primordium is very similar and doesn't require white mana - in fact it can be even better, because your opponent can burn Pridemage and then cast whatever artifact/enchantment he wants to play.
I use Qasali and ive found him to be good, his sac ability is nice but it's not the only reason to run him, exalted bonus is also nice and the fact that he has a 2/2 body with those 2 i have found to be relevant in matchups where because im playing infect my opps just crack fetches, then shock themselves driving there life total down while managing to keep my infectors out of the game, if they get into a 11 to 13 life range qasali wears pumps well and can win games that way.
Ive won similarly with hierarch but opp was at 8 life, makes for some odd comments when you pump and win with either of them 2 and not with infect.
I play U/G infect, and have had a lot of success against both pod and affinity in my testing, as well as a fair game against UWR. Its built to be able to handle the grindy matchups like B/G rock while maintaining the speed necessary to race the noninteractive matchups like storm. You sacrifice some points in some game 1 matchups in exchange for a powerful a more powerful sideboard.
This deck gets to play a 23 card sideboard by maindecking 2 dismember, 2 spellskite, 2 sylvan scrying, 1 twisted image, and 1 wild defiance. How do these unorthodox choices matchup with the metagame?
Splinter twin:
Clearly 2 dismember and 2 spellskite are excellent vs twin. If I knew for a fact my opponent was on twin, Id probably rather have twisted image in my deck than not, as those lists commonly run 2 spellskite. Sylvan scrying is honestly a bit slow for the matchup, and using it instead of ichorclaw myr makes the matchup a bit worse. Wild defiance can be hard to tap out for, but once it is in play, having your apostle's blessings pump can be critical.
Jund:
Spellskite isnt terrible but it isnt great vs jund. The fact isnt an artifact to pump their goyfs can be a bit annoying, but it does suck up removal, and its ability to block confidants and treetop villages can buy valuable time. Obviously it is good vs bolt. Dismember is solid against jund, as they often plan to play a goyf and then a pile of removal. Removing their clock can buy the time needed to out-topdeck them. Sylvan scrying is an MVP vs jund, and a major reason why we play the card main. Inkmoth is the single best card in the matchup with its ability to dodge lili and abrupt decay. Image is quite mediocre but its never terrible in grindy matchups. If they have bolt wild defiance is fine, if they are B/G its pretty slow.
Pod:
Dismember is of course good here. Spellskite... not so much. Twisted image is the secret MVP of this matchup, killing hierarchs and birds left and right. Wild defiance can help simply plow through melira by dealing 20, or overcoming spellskite similarly. Sylvan scrying is a bit slow, but the ground is very gummed up in this match.
Affinity:
Spellskite is mediocre, but it is good vs ravager. dismember is surprisingly good despite the life loss because affinity deals its damage in large chunks. image kills thopters and signal pest, making it a solid addition, while wild defiance is pretty terrible here.
Anyways, we see that preboard we arent much worse than normal infect, while postboard we get things like grafdiggers cage and creeping corrosion.
I must have developed a playstyle with the Sylvan Scrying, Noble Hierarch list that is totally inappropriate for Magnus and Waterd's lists, or the Modern community online must have learned how to respond to it (and perhaps that's why I see Fosprey piloting tokens :)). I can't do anything with a list under $50, even though I see that they 4-0 in the midst of highly reactive lists like deluxeicoff's. I wonder what on earth they're doing differently.
Anyway, I'm bookmarking this sweet idea, though I think I'll still resort back to my old trusty. This deck has more creatures, Aether Vial with a mono-green list, and Savage Summoning main. The Vial and Summoning allow me to play a "haste" creature and get around a lot of hate. Also they prevent counters from being effective hate.
Gosh I hope this works. I really want to build an infect list in paper Magic, and I know the list I keep doing well with won't be an option on my budget.
@Ultra Magnus: could you tell us a bit, more in-depth, why you wouldn't run a couple of Gitaxian probe? I have the mono-G deck built up, but also have been playing the UG list on cockatrice, and the only one card that I really would like to see sometimes in the G version is the probe. Allows you to not-overextend into a trap or go all-in when you know you can. Can a 2-3 of them really screw up the balance of the decklist? I tend the think that no! But youre the mono-G expert so...
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Gitaxian Probe is definitely a viable choice. For me it is more of an issue of fitting it in, and also since I run 4 Apostle's Blessing, 4 Mutagenic Growth and 2 Dismember(with 2 in the side), I am not keen on running any more cards that require phyrexian mana. I could put it in the side, but there is not much room there either.
I think there are many viable Infect builds, and there is a lot of choice there to build a deck that suits your preferences and playing style.
Edit: One thing I will add though, is that Apostle's Blessing should be a 4 of in any Infect deck that runs 4 Inkmoth Nexus, with the exception of a deck that is running 4 Phyrexian Crusader as it has protection from white. Apostle's Blessing is so important because it can be cast with Inkmoth Nexus, and when mana is tight that can be the difference between winning or getting blown out.
@radouf I couldn't agree more with you about gitaxian probe. I have been playing the mono green version with 4 probes main for a little while. I find the information they give you very important with this deck. But like Ultra Magnus says it's hard to fit them in. I have been testing different versions of mono green with and without probe. Every time I played a version with out that I always wants to know what my opponent had in their hand.
I think I finally found a configuration I like. I have the 4 probes in the 2 flex slots and -1 rancor and -1 mutagenic growth. I did move the one rancor to the sideboard for matches that I think the trample might be relevant. I do now fun the 4 apostles blessing main as well too that I used to only have 2 main 2 sideboard.
I have a ptq this Sunday so I think this is the way I'm going to run it. Hopefully it works out well.
@radouf I couldn't agree more with you about gitaxian probe. I have been playing the mono green version with 4 probes main for a little while. I find the information they give you very important with this deck. But like Ultra Magnus says it's hard to fit them in. I have been testing different versions of mono green with and without probe. Every time I played a version without it I always wants to know what my opponent had in their hand.
I think I finally found a configuration I like. I have the 4 probes in the 2 flex slots and -1 rancor and -1 mutagenic growth. I did move the one rancor to the sideboard for matches that I think the trample might be relevant. I do now have the 4 apostles blessing main as well too that I used to only have 2 main 2 sideboard.
I have a ptq this Sunday so I think this is the way I'm going to run it. Hopefully it works out well.
Looking at these SCG IQ lists infect has been quietly stealing the local casual tournaments gearing up for the bigger events.
4 gitaxian probes are nice on game 1, after that i almost always board them out for something else.
for the dudes running 4 necropede....i find that necropede is my weakest creature, the extra -1/-1 does little to nothing when you LOSE a creature.
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also i cut pendlehaven, play testing over and over and over again revealed that a 1/1 with a +1/+2 does nothing with lightning bolt, or path to exile in the meta.
plus i never used the +1/+2 trigger i almost always had something better to spend my mana on, be it a vines of vastwood to hold next turn, a rancor on a ichorclaw or activating an inkmoth
the reality is that pendlehaven wasn't to useful for me. YMMV though.
also pendelhaven loses a lot of synergy with me, i main board 4 might of old krosa, 4 rancor and some cathedral of war. when it comes time to defend the life of a creature pendlehaven falls short, when it comes time to swing my creature is already looking a +4 mainphase 1 buff on him from might of old krosa where used the pendelhaven to pay for it.
it's too little too late. IMHO
also 4 in some of those lists is too many with the legendary land restriction.
i'd cut 2 pendelhaven, and 2 forest for 4 U/G shocks and blighted agent. if you really want utility from lands
then get those damn necropedes out of there and get some blighted agent. then run a few misty rainforests to fetch those lands. i like the idea of running dispel sideboard, mana leak usally kills me when facing UWR, more so than one might think (i want a turn 2 turn 3 win, a mana leak hurts)
Im going to play test with some surgical extraction for a few hours each day and see where i can get it.
this deck might be dead for me though, turns out in a pool of 8 players in my meta 2 newbies walked in holding almost the exact same deck as me....
meaning sideboard hate 3/10 dudes with the same deck = hate it out + the removal they already run in some of those decks (galvanic blasts, bolts, path to exile etc)
@Horrible: yeah but the opportunity cost of running 1 Pendelhaven over, say, a Forest, is zero. It just adds an option, the option the hasten 2x your clock at the end of a game that would have went wrong and where you're left with little pump in hand. I been running 1 for a while, thinking of bumping up to two because I'm loosing nothing, and with 2 MB, I dont see the legendary rule conflict happen too often.
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On another note, the 18 land + 4 Vial version 3-1ed another Daily. I think that Vial is worse than Noble Hierarch, but I'm interested to see how long this version can stick around.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'm thinking about getting into modern infect, and am wondering whether anyone has thought aboutRunechanter's Pike? With all the pump spells we play, It will get very big very quickly and could give us some later game potential on the back of a nexus. Also, the first strike it gives is very nice on creatures with infect.
Also, could a white splash be useful in this deck?
It would give us:
1) Slightly better removal (Path to Exile or Oust over Dismember)
2) More protection in Emerge Unscathed or Gods Willing type cards as well as Mark of Asylum.
3) Much better sideboard hate for affinity (Stony Silence and Kataki, War's Wage)
4) Qasali Pridemage
5) Sejiri Steppe in the Sylvan Scrying tutor package
I also doubt that it would greatly destabilize the manabase. Even without fetches, a deck could run eight white/green sources that would come into play untapped (Razorverge Thicket and Temple Garden).
Might not be worth it, just an idea.
Thoughts?
I'm running a W splash version in paper, Qasali Pridemage is a very good card in the deck.
I still run Dismember alongside Path to Exile.
I like the W splash and the options it brings over the more typical BUG list and its a deck i'll keep working on.
I'm running a W splash version in paper, Qasali Pridemage is a very good card in the deck.
I still run Dismember alongside Path to Exile.
I like the W splash and the options it brings over the more typical BUG list and its a deck i'll keep working on.
As for the white splash,
1 (Removal): There isn't much difference between Path and Dismember. Oust is bad because it doesn't deal with Twin.
2 (Protection): You already have up to 8 protection spells main (4 each of Apostle's Blessing and Vines of Vastwood) so you don't really need more.
3 (Affinity hate): True, Stony Silence is much better than Creeping Corrosion because of the difference in mana cost. Corrosion is decent in BUG because none of your Infect guys are artifact creatures and you have Noble Hierarch to accelerate it out.
4 (Pridemage): I don't see the need for another Naturalize effect when you already have 4 Nature's Claim in the SB. If you do need it, Seal of Primordium is very similar and doesn't require white mana - in fact it can be even better, because your opponent can burn Pridemage and then cast whatever artifact/enchantment he wants to play.
5 (Sejiri Steppe): I don't think Steppe is very good; you can't get the protection effect at instant speed, which is crucial. If you have pump spell + Blessing for example, you can cast the pump first, then respond with Blessing if your opponent uses removal. Whereas if you have pump spell + Steppe, you can't beat your opponent's removal (if it isn't toughness-based, like Path) regardless of whether you Steppe-first-then-pump or just pump.
So in short, I don't think the white splash is worth it. Although I have heard of playing UGw Infect and boarding into Geist of Saint Traft, lol (not that I think that is a good idea either).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I use Qasali and ive found him to be good, his sac ability is nice but it's not the only reason to run him, exalted bonus is also nice and the fact that he has a 2/2 body with those 2 i have found to be relevant in matchups where because im playing infect my opps just crack fetches, then shock themselves driving there life total down while managing to keep my infectors out of the game, if they get into a 11 to 13 life range qasali wears pumps well and can win games that way.
Ive won similarly with hierarch but opp was at 8 life, makes for some odd comments when you pump and win with either of them 2 and not with infect.
I'm going to try out a GW list that runs no white cards mainboard, but plays some white lands to have better sideboard options.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/7143419
With a couple of 4-0 results for MonoG Cathedral and a 3-1 for the UG Æther Vial version that Izzetmage reported a few posts back.
I play U/G infect, and have had a lot of success against both pod and affinity in my testing, as well as a fair game against UWR. Its built to be able to handle the grindy matchups like B/G rock while maintaining the speed necessary to race the noninteractive matchups like storm. You sacrifice some points in some game 1 matchups in exchange for a powerful a more powerful sideboard.
4 noble hierarch
4 glistener elf
4 blighted agent
2 spellskite
Instants:
4 groundswell
4 might of old krosa
4 vines of vastwood
3 mutagenic growth
2 apostle's blessing
2 dismember
1 twisted image
2 sylvan scrying
1 gitaxian probe
Enchantments:
2 rancor
1 wild defiance
Lands:
4 verdant catacombs
3 misty rainforest
2 breeding pool
3 forest
2 pendlehaven
4 inkmoth nexus
2 cathedral of war
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 pithing needle
1 torpor orb
1 relic of progenitus
1 spellskite
2 dismember
4 nature's claim
1 spell pierce
1 twisted image
1 creeping corrosion
This deck gets to play a 23 card sideboard by maindecking 2 dismember, 2 spellskite, 2 sylvan scrying, 1 twisted image, and 1 wild defiance. How do these unorthodox choices matchup with the metagame?
Splinter twin:
Clearly 2 dismember and 2 spellskite are excellent vs twin. If I knew for a fact my opponent was on twin, Id probably rather have twisted image in my deck than not, as those lists commonly run 2 spellskite. Sylvan scrying is honestly a bit slow for the matchup, and using it instead of ichorclaw myr makes the matchup a bit worse. Wild defiance can be hard to tap out for, but once it is in play, having your apostle's blessings pump can be critical.
Jund:
Spellskite isnt terrible but it isnt great vs jund. The fact isnt an artifact to pump their goyfs can be a bit annoying, but it does suck up removal, and its ability to block confidants and treetop villages can buy valuable time. Obviously it is good vs bolt. Dismember is solid against jund, as they often plan to play a goyf and then a pile of removal. Removing their clock can buy the time needed to out-topdeck them. Sylvan scrying is an MVP vs jund, and a major reason why we play the card main. Inkmoth is the single best card in the matchup with its ability to dodge lili and abrupt decay. Image is quite mediocre but its never terrible in grindy matchups. If they have bolt wild defiance is fine, if they are B/G its pretty slow.
Pod:
Dismember is of course good here. Spellskite... not so much. Twisted image is the secret MVP of this matchup, killing hierarchs and birds left and right. Wild defiance can help simply plow through melira by dealing 20, or overcoming spellskite similarly. Sylvan scrying is a bit slow, but the ground is very gummed up in this match.
Affinity:
Spellskite is mediocre, but it is good vs ravager. dismember is surprisingly good despite the life loss because affinity deals its damage in large chunks. image kills thopters and signal pest, making it a solid addition, while wild defiance is pretty terrible here.
Anyways, we see that preboard we arent much worse than normal infect, while postboard we get things like grafdiggers cage and creeping corrosion.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28653_Infect-in-Moden.html
He has 1 Birds of Paradise and 4 Viridian Corrupter main.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Anyway, I'm bookmarking this sweet idea, though I think I'll still resort back to my old trusty. This deck has more creatures, Aether Vial with a mono-green list, and Savage Summoning main. The Vial and Summoning allow me to play a "haste" creature and get around a lot of hate. Also they prevent counters from being effective hate.
Gosh I hope this works. I really want to build an infect list in paper Magic, and I know the list I keep doing well with won't be an option on my budget.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I think there are many viable Infect builds, and there is a lot of choice there to build a deck that suits your preferences and playing style.
Edit: One thing I will add though, is that Apostle's Blessing should be a 4 of in any Infect deck that runs 4 Inkmoth Nexus, with the exception of a deck that is running 4 Phyrexian Crusader as it has protection from white. Apostle's Blessing is so important because it can be cast with Inkmoth Nexus, and when mana is tight that can be the difference between winning or getting blown out.
I think I finally found a configuration I like. I have the 4 probes in the 2 flex slots and -1 rancor and -1 mutagenic growth. I did move the one rancor to the sideboard for matches that I think the trample might be relevant. I do now fun the 4 apostles blessing main as well too that I used to only have 2 main 2 sideboard.
I have a ptq this Sunday so I think this is the way I'm going to run it. Hopefully it works out well.
I think I finally found a configuration I like. I have the 4 probes in the 2 flex slots and -1 rancor and -1 mutagenic growth. I did move the one rancor to the sideboard for matches that I think the trample might be relevant. I do now have the 4 apostles blessing main as well too that I used to only have 2 main 2 sideboard.
I have a ptq this Sunday so I think this is the way I'm going to run it. Hopefully it works out well.
4 gitaxian probes are nice on game 1, after that i almost always board them out for something else.
for the dudes running 4 necropede....i find that necropede is my weakest creature, the extra -1/-1 does little to nothing when you LOSE a creature.
-------
also i cut pendlehaven, play testing over and over and over again revealed that a 1/1 with a +1/+2 does nothing with lightning bolt, or path to exile in the meta.
plus i never used the +1/+2 trigger i almost always had something better to spend my mana on, be it a vines of vastwood to hold next turn, a rancor on a ichorclaw or activating an inkmoth
the reality is that pendlehaven wasn't to useful for me. YMMV though.
also pendelhaven loses a lot of synergy with me, i main board 4 might of old krosa, 4 rancor and some cathedral of war. when it comes time to defend the life of a creature pendlehaven falls short, when it comes time to swing my creature is already looking a +4 mainphase 1 buff on him from might of old krosa where used the pendelhaven to pay for it.
it's too little too late. IMHO
also 4 in some of those lists is too many with the legendary land restriction.
i'd cut 2 pendelhaven, and 2 forest for 4 U/G shocks and blighted agent. if you really want utility from lands
then get those damn necropedes out of there and get some blighted agent. then run a few misty rainforests to fetch those lands. i like the idea of running dispel sideboard, mana leak usally kills me when facing UWR, more so than one might think (i want a turn 2 turn 3 win, a mana leak hurts)
Im going to play test with some surgical extraction for a few hours each day and see where i can get it.
this deck might be dead for me though, turns out in a pool of 8 players in my meta 2 newbies walked in holding almost the exact same deck as me....
meaning sideboard hate 3/10 dudes with the same deck = hate it out + the removal they already run in some of those decks (galvanic blasts, bolts, path to exile etc)
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.