Turn to mist doesn't become a vindicate, they get the creature back at the end of their turn.
ok, ok, my bad. i didn't read the oracle text for the new rulings. but seriously, can we stay on topic? lol. that is, talking about Neo-D+T not some other deck.
anyways, i've been thinking about revokers. what are your guys' thoughts on them? good in the format? bad in the format? legacy they are an automatic 4-of in main... i'm running 2 in main and 2 in side here for modern. a lot of the key cards revoker stops didn't come with it to modern.
turn to mist returns at the end of the turn; it can very well be used as a permanent exile.
Wrong.
"Exile target creature. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step."
Sundial ends your turn. Just like Ball Lightning, it would come back on your opponents end step.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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Wrong.
"Exile target creature. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step."
Sundial ends your turn. Just like Ball Lightning, it would come back on your opponents end step.
yes, yanni is correct.
but can we PLEASE move on? no more talk about sundial. i don't want to sound mean but this isn't the place for this talk. i want to be talking about improving the deck we've created, not debating rules about cards we aren't using.
thanks for understanding. again... thoughts about revoker in modern?
Wrong.
"Exile target creature. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step."
Sundial ends your turn. Just like Ball Lightning, it would come back on your opponents end step.
The use of turn to mist causes a delayed trigger. When it is time for the permanent to be returned to the battlefield (your end step), use the sundial. the trigger has already occurred and cannot occur again, but the ability is exiled on the stack and will never resolve, meaning whatever you exiled will never come back as long as you cast turn to mist on your turn.
If it said "that player's end step" then you would be correct. now perhaps i'm misunderstanding the wording of the trigger but i'm fairly certain that unless you know something you haven't mentioned yet that it works as i explained.
The use of turn to mist causes a delayed trigger. When it is time for the permanent to be returned to the battlefield (your end step), use the sundial. the trigger has already occurred and cannot occur again, but the ability is exiled on the stack and will never resolve, meaning whatever you exiled will never come back as long as you cast turn to mist on your turn.
If it said "that player's end step" then you would be correct. now perhaps i'm misunderstanding the wording of the trigger but i'm fairly certain that unless you know something you haven't mentioned yet that it works as i explained.
please end the sundial talk now. it doesn't work. it says "at the beginning of the next end step." this means it waits for the next end step and the effect happens. it doesn't wait on the stack, however. when your opponent's end step happens, the effect happens.
please suggest on my deck and the one 2 posts above. not some silly card i'm not playing. that is a discussion for the rules forum.
thank you.
please end the sundial talk now. it doesn't work. it says "at the beginning of the next end step." this means it waits for the next end step and the effect happens. it doesn't wait on the stack, however. when your opponent's end step happens, the effect happens.
please suggest on my deck and the one 2 posts above. not some silly card i'm not playing. that is a discussion for the rules forum.
thank you.
Anyways, i'm not saying you SHOULD run sundial, but it is definitely worth testing since it offers powerful synergy with several of our abilities and it offers us the same utility it offers any deck with the ability to pseudo-counter on your turn.
Tomathan, you can get a Karakas effect with the land that returns a wizard to hand. It requires mana and blue. That may mean that the deck is naturally pulled away from it's roots, but then so be it. And if you are going that route, you simply must be testing Vendilion Clique. It is so hot with Karakas. And also you simply must try out Venser.
Tomathan, you can get a Karakas effect with the land that returns a wizard to hand. It requires mana and blue. That may mean that the deck is naturally pulled away from it's roots, but then so be it. And if you are going that route, you simply must be testing Vendilion Clique. It is so hot with Karakas. And also you simply must try out Venser.
Riptide Laboratory is actually not legal in Modern so its not really an option.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
lol, i felt really stupid after reading finn's suggestion, and was actually kind of relieved to see feaor's.
yah, keeping these modern cards out of the others is tough, i recently suggested cabal therapy and felt dumb...
EDIT: @jokulmordor: ok, i apologize. i was watching an episode of the magic show on youtube, and he said the same thing you are, but then went back and said he was wrong and gave the reason, so i took it for granted he looked into it. i might test with it, but i really don't like the idea of a card that only works if i have flickerwisp, and does nothing else the rest of the time. i'm not running stag no matter what.
made both WG and WB decklists. both seem really good, especially the black one, imo.
EDIT: also added a small-detailed matchup section. as said in the section, not very accurate because modern is not big yet and we haven't tested too much.
I think 4x Revoker is a bit overkill in modern; while it does stop threats such as Jace and SFM, one of the main reasons why it's used in Legacy is because it stops a LOT of combo decks. Hell, it can stop storm by pinning LED. Anyways, I'd suggest 2 if you're running them mb and maybe 1 extra in sb.
On the subject of WB taxes, has anyone tried Tidehollow Sculler? That thing is a nice cross between disruption and creature count and it can match Clique with a Vial.
I think 4x Revoker is a bit overkill in modern; while it does stop threats such as Jace and SFM, one of the main reasons why it's used in Legacy is because it stops a LOT of combo decks. Hell, it can stop storm by pinning LED. Anyways, I'd suggest 2 if you're running them mb and maybe 1 extra in sb.
On the subject of WB taxes, has anyone tried Tidehollow Sculler? That thing is a nice cross between disruption and creature count and it can match Clique with a Vial.
i do have 2 in the main, and 2 in the side. and i have 4 scullers in the WB decklist...
Without SFM, I'm free to run four Arbiter, which in turn lets me run Ghost Quarter in place of Tectonic Edge. It's also good with Path to Exile.
The rest of the deck is pretty straightforward DnT with Green. I decided Serra Avenger over 'Goyf because Avenger is always a 3/3 whereas I think 'Goyf might be held back some by this deck's lack of card type variety and Stonecloaker's exiling ability (which is actually extremely useful).
I really like how quick the deck can be out of the gate. Both Aether Vial and GSZ allow me to have three lands on turn two, via Dryad Arbor, which means I can get right to business with little to no delay. It really is deceptively quick.
@feathers: glad to see you interested in the deck.
however here are some main points i'd like to make:
- in order for it to be D+T, you need to keep the core. that includes the 4 copies of flickerwisp in the main, the same 4 cards the deck is built around. they are better than stonecloaker, so switch out 2 for 2 wisps. wisps are better because:
1. he brings your guy back to play, not hand, so you dont have to recast him
2. he can untap a land if hardcast on your turn to make it cost 2
3. he can tap an opponents land at the beginning of their turn
4. he can save one of your permanents about to die (not just creatures)
5. he can stop a guy from blocking
6. he can stop a guy from attacking
7. there are a lot more, check the link at the top for details in "flickerwisp tricks"
- SFM is one of the best cards in the deck. he is not part of the core, so if you really want to go this route, that's fine, but i feel my way is stronger.
- kitchen finks is normally not as strong as avenger in a build with SFM, but if you aren't playing SFM i would recommend playing it over avenger, how you were thinking. and yes, tarmogoyf sucks in this deck. D+T is about tricks, not vanilla beaters.
- with your knight of the reliquarys, leonin aribters, and ghost quarters, crucible of worlds would be oh so very brutal. if you do go with this, i'd recommend more tectonic edges as well. and a couple extra aven mindcensors just to ensure the arbiter plan. not a bad beater as well.
not a bad start though! tell us what you think as time and testing goes on! what i feel most strongly about though is flickerwisp as a 4-of. my legacy group doesn't play a single stonecloaker and 4 wisps, they just can do so much more.
ok, ok, my bad. i didn't read the oracle text for the new rulings. but seriously, can we stay on topic? lol. that is, talking about Neo-D+T not some other deck.
anyways, i've been thinking about revokers. what are your guys' thoughts on them? good in the format? bad in the format? legacy they are an automatic 4-of in main... i'm running 2 in main and 2 in side here for modern. a lot of the key cards revoker stops didn't come with it to modern.
turn to mist returns at the end of the turn; it can very well be used as a permanent exile.
Wrong.
"Exile target creature. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step."
Sundial ends your turn. Just like Ball Lightning, it would come back on your opponents end step.
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yes, yanni is correct.
but can we PLEASE move on? no more talk about sundial. i don't want to sound mean but this isn't the place for this talk. i want to be talking about improving the deck we've created, not debating rules about cards we aren't using.
thanks for understanding. again... thoughts about revoker in modern?
15x plains
4x tectonic edge
4x ghost quarter
Creatures
4x flickerwisp
4x aven mindcensor
4x serra avenger
4x stoneforge mystic
3x leonin arbiter
3x mangara of corondor
2x stonecloaker
4x path to exile
2x oblivion ring
Artifacts
4x aether vial
1x sword of fire and ice
1x sword of light and shadow
1x batterskull
2x stonecloaker
1x oblivion ring
2x oust
1x mangara of corondor
3x phyrexian revoker
3x grand abolisher (m12 card)
3x relic of progenitus
-3 grunt
-2 revoker
-2 cloaker
-4 plains
+4 mindcensor
+3 arbiter
+4 ghost quarter
Sdbd:
-2 timely reinforcements
-1 grunt
+2 stonecloaker
+1 revoker
what do you guys think? i'll test it sometime soon.
The use of turn to mist causes a delayed trigger. When it is time for the permanent to be returned to the battlefield (your end step), use the sundial. the trigger has already occurred and cannot occur again, but the ability is exiled on the stack and will never resolve, meaning whatever you exiled will never come back as long as you cast turn to mist on your turn.
If it said "that player's end step" then you would be correct. now perhaps i'm misunderstanding the wording of the trigger but i'm fairly certain that unless you know something you haven't mentioned yet that it works as i explained.
please end the sundial talk now. it doesn't work. it says "at the beginning of the next end step." this means it waits for the next end step and the effect happens. it doesn't wait on the stack, however. when your opponent's end step happens, the effect happens.
please suggest on my deck and the one 2 posts above. not some silly card i'm not playing. that is a discussion for the rules forum.
thank you.
It DOES work, rules forum confirmation: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6997728#post6997728
So yeah.
Anyways, i'm not saying you SHOULD run sundial, but it is definitely worth testing since it offers powerful synergy with several of our abilities and it offers us the same utility it offers any deck with the ability to pseudo-counter on your turn.
Riptide Laboratory is actually not legal in Modern so its not really an option.
yah, keeping these modern cards out of the others is tough, i recently suggested cabal therapy and felt dumb...
EDIT: @jokulmordor: ok, i apologize. i was watching an episode of the magic show on youtube, and he said the same thing you are, but then went back and said he was wrong and gave the reason, so i took it for granted he looked into it. i might test with it, but i really don't like the idea of a card that only works if i have flickerwisp, and does nothing else the rest of the time. i'm not running stag no matter what.
EDIT: also added a small-detailed matchup section. as said in the section, not very accurate because modern is not big yet and we haven't tested too much.
On the subject of WB taxes, has anyone tried Tidehollow Sculler? That thing is a nice cross between disruption and creature count and it can match Clique with a Vial.
i do have 2 in the main, and 2 in the side. and i have 4 scullers in the WB decklist...
4 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Dryad Arbor
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Stonecloaker
4 Serra Avenger
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Flickerwisp
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Path to Exile
Sorceries:
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Artifacts:
4 Æther Vial
Without SFM, I'm free to run four Arbiter, which in turn lets me run Ghost Quarter in place of Tectonic Edge. It's also good with Path to Exile.
The rest of the deck is pretty straightforward DnT with Green. I decided Serra Avenger over 'Goyf because Avenger is always a 3/3 whereas I think 'Goyf might be held back some by this deck's lack of card type variety and Stonecloaker's exiling ability (which is actually extremely useful).
I really like how quick the deck can be out of the gate. Both Aether Vial and GSZ allow me to have three lands on turn two, via Dryad Arbor, which means I can get right to business with little to no delay. It really is deceptively quick.
Right now, the sideboard is something like..
2 Flickerwisp
9 etc.
This deck abuses Finks like nobody's business. I'm even considering maindecking them over Avenger.
however here are some main points i'd like to make:
- in order for it to be D+T, you need to keep the core. that includes the 4 copies of flickerwisp in the main, the same 4 cards the deck is built around. they are better than stonecloaker, so switch out 2 for 2 wisps. wisps are better because:
1. he brings your guy back to play, not hand, so you dont have to recast him
2. he can untap a land if hardcast on your turn to make it cost 2
3. he can tap an opponents land at the beginning of their turn
4. he can save one of your permanents about to die (not just creatures)
5. he can stop a guy from blocking
6. he can stop a guy from attacking
7. there are a lot more, check the link at the top for details in "flickerwisp tricks"
- SFM is one of the best cards in the deck. he is not part of the core, so if you really want to go this route, that's fine, but i feel my way is stronger.
- kitchen finks is normally not as strong as avenger in a build with SFM, but if you aren't playing SFM i would recommend playing it over avenger, how you were thinking. and yes, tarmogoyf sucks in this deck. D+T is about tricks, not vanilla beaters.
- with your knight of the reliquarys, leonin aribters, and ghost quarters, crucible of worlds would be oh so very brutal. if you do go with this, i'd recommend more tectonic edges as well. and a couple extra aven mindcensors just to ensure the arbiter plan. not a bad beater as well.
not a bad start though! tell us what you think as time and testing goes on! what i feel most strongly about though is flickerwisp as a 4-of. my legacy group doesn't play a single stonecloaker and 4 wisps, they just can do so much more.
2 Plains
1 Forest
4 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
3 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Dryad Arbor
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
Creatures:
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Stonecloaker
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Path to Exile
Sorceries:
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Artifacts:
4 Æther Vial
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Rule of Law
4 Grand Abolisher
2 Stonecloaker
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Crucible of Worlds
sexy, i like it. lmk how it works post-testing.
thanks for the interest and posts!
None of the OCTGN Modern players seem to be around much anymore.
Is red just not seeign enough play in Mod?
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