Id like to begin a discussion in the vein of both making room for answers to other decks AND the scion vs swords debate.
I would say that firstly the debate on which game-ending works (as far as scion vs swords go) is a wasted effort Im guessing. I think those with the plan of seeing which works better could potentially cut them completely for more cards that help in bad matchups; because what are they going to do? We win the game off of incremental advantage through our effects and planning how we handle the situation. I have honestly ended games just off of Mutavault and Creeping Tar Pit and have been comfortable doing so because they dont require that we use up card slots for effects that are terrible cards unless we are in a position of power.
My thoughts stem from an urging necessity to grow in comfort with my capabilities to sneak in damage when I find the opportunity, and these cards seem to tempt people into opening up their gameplan to accomodate some "finisher" that are clunky when drawn at the wrong time and really dont do anything on their own. Like, it feels like people have the same notion that I am trying to disprove in myself that our cards need to be made better when I think we can easily just create more opportunities for our creatures to get through with our cardslots.
This also opens up another debate point for Snapcaster Mage, where my original argument was as weak as not having room for him, in lists that are looking to fully attack the metagame also, as it is a reuse of our cards that open up room for our creatures to do damage AND is another damage dealer itself. If you look at each game as an opportunity to avoid being buried by your opponent's advantages it is a clear card to be playing in favor of cards that just push your opponent into the red. This is also where Creeping Tar-Pit comes in handy because it is a land-slot that fascilitates both colors necessary for game-progression and acts as the perfect damage dealer in situations where you have no other use for your mana.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Tragic slip isn't as bad as you might think. I've tried it out as a 6th piece of removal and never had to 2 for 1 myself to get it to work from either trading or pairing it with another removal spell to snag two things. But that being said, it's a terrible top deck and does nothing when we're behind. So if you want slips I believe it's best to play them in addition to your preferred base 5 spot removal spells because the more removal yo have the better they get.
Right now the only commonly played black creature (that I can think of) is bob and murderous red cap. or maybe olivia voldaren. Red cap is a 2/2 with no text once it's out and is usually going to combo off when it shows up. And bob only needs to dies asap in the early game. Later on it is perfectly fine to just ignore him while your tar pits do their thing since DRS isn't around to make his draws mostly free. So with that in mind is there anything else aside from bobby that would make us not want doom blades?
If I had to play a GP tomorrow I'd run 3 smother and 2 doom blades with another option in the side.
EDIT:
And we deal with persist creatures the same way every other deck does: we get very annoyed that they exist and try to eat them in combat.
So you tried 6 removals? How did it go? I'm toying with this idea quite a bit, so i'd like to hear impression from people who tried it.
I'm sold to Doom Blade completely over gftt, but my removal suite right now is 2 warp 2 smother and 1 blade. What can i say i'm a sucker for potential two-for-one
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
The point of GftT over Doom Blade has nothing to do with Blade being bad against the meta, it's because GftT can't be redirected to Spellskite while Doom Blade can.
Engineered Explosives is going to be golden! The majority of creatures in zoo cost of 1 Mana 2 tops. Merfolk mainly around 2 Mana as well. Oh yeah, and it's a great way to dealwith tokens.
I'm currently testing Jace(s) (Jace Beleren and Jace, Architect of Thought). Haven't played enough games to say which one, if any, is a good choice for the deck but my starting point was the thought that I didn't want do lean to heavily on the top of my deck to get me out of things.
Mt first choice for card draw in the deck was jace beleren instead of think twice because it has the ability to do far more than just draw a bonus card like think twice. But playing with beleren in our deck is completely different than how you would play it in another deck. Loosely quoting PVDDR here, "since we are a tribal based deck, our cards are worth less individually, but more together. Because of that each card that we can draw is going to be slightly more valuable than what our opponents will be drawing." Also you have to think about what effect he'll have in a game. You cast it against zoo, draw a card, he gets bolted. That's a two for one right there, gain 3 life and draw a card. But against lightning bolt decks you typically want to plus him first and then minus him all the way down.
Cast jace (1 card for you, 0 cards for opponent)
Plus jace, 5 loyalty (2 cards for you, 1 card for opponent)
Wild nacatl hits jace, 2 loyalty (2 cards for you, 1 card for opponent) 3 life gained
Opponent bolts jace (1 cards for you, 0 cards for opponent) 6 life gained
This is worst case scenario against zoo since you had zero way of interacting with them and protecting jace. and If you're not able to stop a single attack on jace you're dead anyways. If you don't care if he dies, then you're winning anyway. Average situation is that you have jace out and have some defense which means if you plus right away you'll be up at least 2-4 cards while jace eats burn and attack steps. All in all I think he's the best option we have for card draw even as a 3 mana sorcery. But as per usual, wtf do you cut for it? I've tried him before and was happy with it, but i wanted to make room for other things that I felt were a little more important.
As for jace 4 and bident, I don't think they're playable in modern. Modern is a turn 4 format which means you deck has to do one of three things (preferably more) to be considered viable in any tier:
A) Be capable of a consistent goldfish win on turn 4. We cannot do this.
B) Be casting something on turn 4 that is so powerful it either prevents any kind of a win or puts you insanely far ahead. Cryptic and mistbind clique both fit the bill incredibly well here while jace 4 and bident do not. 4 mana sorceries are very hard to protect, there's a reason scapeshift decks run a decent amount of countermagic.
C) Be Incredibly disruptive and win in the mid game. This is sort of the point of faeries.
Engineered Explosives is going to be golden! The majority of creatures in zoo cost of 1 Mana 2 tops. Merfolk mainly around 2 Mana as well. Oh yeah, and it's a great way to dealwith tokens.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the splinter twin tokens all have a CMC of 3 (same as exarch/pestermite? Or is that a different type of copy effect that I'm thinking of.
The point of GftT over Doom Blade has nothing to do with Blade being bad against the meta, it's because GftT can't be redirected to Spellskite while Doom Blade can.
How relevant has that actually been? I'm sure it comes up a non-zero amount, but is it often enough to be scary? I've been using the classic doom blade because a wurmcoil slipping through the cracks has happened enough times that I'd like to have some form of answer to it main deck other than just hope (I sideboard in hope in all game 3's when I'm on the draw). For some reason I've been seeing the 6th titan show up in the damnedest of places from merfolk to UWR control and midrange, to even jund.
So you tried 6 removals? How did it go? I'm toying with this idea quite a bit, so i'd like to hear impression from people who tried it.
I'm sold to Doom Blade completely over gftt, but my removal suite right now is 2 warp 2 smother and 1 blade. What can i say i'm a sucker for potential two-for-one
- L
Actually it was 7 removal heh. I cut my 2 spell snares for slips in addition to my standard 5 removal and it went as you would expect it to, creature matches got way easier (even pod felt alright) while twin and UWR got far worse because I couldn't stop a snap caster from coming down and I wasn't able to stop a late game 6/7 goyf without losing something.
By the way whoever mentioned Rune Snag some time ago: Theoretically it's better than 'leak running 4x, but I've found there are more times where the +2 mana from snag and +3 from leak difference has made a bigger deal than in the late game where the +3 from leak was worse than +4 / +6 from snag.
I personally think that rune snag is completely unplayable in modern just because of the card remand. That card is very popular and if they have it and need to protect a spell with it they'll be leaving open 2 mana anyways and your rune snag does nothing. Mana leak is just much more reliable and I strongly believe that reliability is what the deck needs.
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Would you really attend a ptq/gp/pt where jund is still a tier 1 with doom blade main deck? Why people is so scared about zoo?
Sure I would. On the play I have 4 discard spells, 2 spell snares, 3 smothers, and 3 mana leaks. On the draw I have all of that minus leaks which means I have 9-12 total answers for their 4 bobs on turn two. Also without DRS the card draw is no longer as "free" as it was before. Besides bob is the only creature, outside of the odd olivia, that doom blade misses from them while a resolved wurmcoil is basically lights out. Granted it shouldn't resolve, but assuming you always have the answer is foolish.
And we're so afraid of zoo because it's our worst match up and, unless the deck is actually unplayable for some reason, it will be very popular and we need a solid plan for it.
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Dismember is just a better card than doom blade. When faeries players realize this they will be much better for it. Doom blade is not a modern playable card imo.
So I have been trying an even more controlling version of the list with 3 mainboard Blue Sun's Zenith and 3 Think Twice and I've got to say I like how it has been testing. My issue with more standard Scion builds and even most control builds was the issue of running out of cards without the ability to cantrip and filter easily. I originally tried 1 copy of BSZ and found myself wanting to draw it quite often, to the point where 3 copies felt right.
So I have been trying an even more controlling version of the list with 3 mainboard Blue Sun's Zenith and 3 Think Twice and I've got to say I like how it has been testing. My issue with more standard Scion builds and even most control builds was the issue of running out of cards without the ability to cantrip and filter easily. I originally tried 1 copy of BSZ and found myself wanting to draw it quite often, to the point where 3 copies felt right.
Don't take this as me being rude, but this list seems like it's just a much worse version of UWR control. Blue zenith is far worse than sphinx's revelation, celestial colonnade is a better late game man land than tar pit, and if you want be be full on control lightning bolt is the best removal spell at your disposal. So I'm not entirely sure why you would want to go in this direction.
That being said, I'm still not against playing some type of wrath in the main as a 1 of. I'd like EE more than BSZ or damnation personally since we can't actually remove permanents once they resolve other than cryptic bounce + counter.
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So I have been trying an even more controlling version of the list with 3 mainboard Blue Sun's Zenith and 3 Think Twice and I've got to say I like how it has been testing. My issue with more standard Scion builds and even most control builds was the issue of running out of cards without the ability to cantrip and filter easily. I originally tried 1 copy of BSZ and found myself wanting to draw it quite often, to the point where 3 copies felt right.
If you're going this direction it's actually nearly worth it to look at Esper. I think 3 colors is bad in this format for Faeries, but if you're looking at BSZ, Revelation is a strict upgrade and hell, you might as well go all-out and gain access to better removal and sideboard options. Think it crosses over more into a control-type deck at that point, but still think it's better than BSZ in the format.
Don't take this as me being rude, but this list seems like it's just a much worse version of UWR control. Blue zenith is far worse than sphinx's revelation, celestial colonnade is a better late game man land than tar pit, and if you want be be full on control lightning bolt is the best removal spell at your disposal. So I'm not entirely sure why you would want to go in this direction.
That being said, I'm still not against playing some type of wrath in the main as a 1 of. I'd like EE more than BSZ or damnation personally since we can't actually remove permanents once they resolve other than cryptic bounce + counter.
I agree that as a pure control deck, UWR is better, and cards like revelation, bolt and colonade are what make it better. That being said, this deck is not a pure control deck. I would compare it more towards Caw-Blade and UW Flash. Out of all the removal options I have tried, Engineered Explosives has been my favorite removal spell. Disfigure has been utterly useless outside of T1 opening it. The 2 mana Doom Blade variations have each performed admirably, but nothing has compared to EE.
If you're going this direction it's actually nearly worth it to look at Esper. I think 3 colors is bad in this format for Faeries, but if you're looking at BSZ, Revelation is a strict upgrade and hell, you might as well go all-out and gain access to better removal and sideboard options. Think it crosses over more into a control-type deck at that point, but still think it's better than BSZ in the format.
I thought about it too, but it is a little outside of my price range and has mana that would be kinda painful to keep consistent.
Ok I'm just going to admit on the interwebs that I'm a total idiot. For some bizarre reason I was certain that scion of oona was a 3/1 and never noticed that it was actually just a 1 power creature since I don't any in paper. So now I'm 100% convinced that scion absolutely does not belong in the deck or sideboard.
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Nobody would doubt that Scion is playable if it were 3/1
It still could be playable in the right meta, but I guess that wpn't be now though.
I can't see how anyone can say Zoo is a good matchup or will be vanished soon. Jund probably folds to zoo, as it folds against affinity. Zoo can be beaten by Fae, but it's dependend on a really good draw or a bad draw by the zoo player.
Ok I'm just going to admit on the interwebs that I'm a total idiot. For some bizarre reason I was certain that scion of oona was a 3/1 and never noticed that it was actually just a 1 power creature since I don't any in paper. So now I'm 100% convinced that scion absolutely does not belong in the deck or sideboard.
You didn't even know its stats, at least try it you will see how much raw power adds to the deck
No I think you're misunderstanding me. When I was trying it in my initial list I was running it as a 3/1 body. Since it was a proxy and I was the only person working on a faeries list, nobody caught it since they hadn't played against scion of oona before. After the first few games they knew all of the cards in my deck list and what they may (or may not) have to play around, but just took my word for it that scion was a 3/1 body. Heh, yeah I looked like an ass when I told them. I liked it then because it plus a mutavault was a serious clock on their own, but as JUST a 1/1 and BB tokens being used as chumpers or eating electrolyzes the scion is just so underwhelming in the mid game or without a good board presence. And if I have a bunch of fae tokens flying over I'm already winning so it doesn't really add much to the deck. That and the fact that 3 mana is a lot to counter a removal spell, I just don't like it that much.
Here's my current list if anybody wants to give it a whirl. Still trying one or two new cards (namely a MD batterskull) that I've been fairly happy with. Currently modo broke so I can only test in paper a couple times a week with my play group.
@udrew:I played Scion in mono blue and ur fae and although it can add quite some value it often costs too much with too little impact. Granted Bitterblossom might add something to the equation but I wouldn't waste 4 slots.
@stokpile: our lists are quite alike minus the batterskull and switched removal spells. As far as it goes i think its near to optimum
@udrew:I played Scion in mono blue and ur fae and although it can add quite some value it often costs too much with too little impact. Granted Bitterblossom might add something to the equation but I wouldn't waste 4 slots.
@stokpile: our lists are quite alike minus the batterskull and switched removal spells. As far as it goes i think its near to optimum
Yeah like I said I'm just trying a MD batterskull because I side it in against almost every deck aside from tron. It isn't the type of sideboard card that is strictly a game 2 or 3 card (aside from twin, but game 1 is very good already) like extra discard or extra counter magic. Faeries is very good at grinding, but doesn't have anything really high impact so that's why I have the sword package and the skull. What's your removal suite and what do you think of doom blade vs go for the throat? Does the spellskite interaction and hitting bob on two come up enough to warrant not hitting wurm coils and assorted robots?
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
@udrew:I played Scion in mono blue and ur fae and although it can add quite some value it often costs too much with too little impact. Granted Bitterblossom might add something to the equation but I wouldn't waste 4 slots.
@stokpile: our lists are quite alike minus the batterskull and switched removal spells. As far as it goes i think its near to optimum
Yeah like I said I'm just trying a MD batterskull because I side it in against almost every deck aside from tron. It isn't the type of sideboard card that is strictly a game 2 or 3 card (aside from twin, but game 1 is very good already) like extra discard or extra counter magic. Faeries is very good at grinding, but doesn't have anything really high impact so that's why I have the sword package and the skull. What's your removal suite and what do you think of doom blade vs go for the throat? Does the spellskite interaction and hitting bob on two come up enough to warrant not hitting wurm coils and assorted robots?
I'm on your boat too, but i play one more discard to have more play on turn 1 and i'm unsure on the second MD sword vs a snapcaster (it feels like having one more of every spell we play).
I run only 1 doom blade. As far as we exclude spellskite problem (i'm yet to see this be relevant) DC can be dealt with my other removals while wurmcoil not, and an extra removal vs robots is always welcome.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Ok I'm just going to admit on the interwebs that I'm a total idiot. For some bizarre reason I was certain that scion of oona was a 3/1 and never noticed that it was actually just a 1 power creature since I don't any in paper. So now I'm 100% convinced that scion absolutely does not belong in the deck or sideboard.
Scion is used not only to buff the power of your tokens and other faeries but used to also protect them. For example someone trys to destroy Bitterblossom you play scion now they need to deal with scion first making them waste another spell.
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"Send any mouse to do the job, it may or may not be done.
Ask the Guard to do the task, even death cannot prevent it from completion" -Mouse proverb
They cut down men like butchers among cattle -Lord Carver
What's your removal suite and what do you think of doom blade vs go for the throat? Does the spellskite interaction and hitting bob on two come up enough to warrant not hitting wurm coils and assorted robots?
I'm running 2 Smother, 2 Dismember and 1 agony warp. The latter is awesome against aggro while I think Dismember is simply superior to both GftT and Doom Blade. If I had to choose I wpuld take Doom Blade thouhh.
Ok I'm just going to admit on the interwebs that I'm a total idiot. For some bizarre reason I was certain that scion of oona was a 3/1 and never noticed that it was actually just a 1 power creature since I don't any in paper. So now I'm 100% convinced that scion absolutely does not belong in the deck or sideboard.
Scion is used not only to buff the power of your tokens and other faeries but used to also protect them. For example someone trys to destroy Bitterblossom you play scion now they need to deal with scion first making them waste another spell.
That is what the rules text of the card says and how shroud interacts with flash, but isn't really an argument for the same reason that saying lightning bolt is good because it can deal 3 damage to a creature and kill it or if you opponent is at 3 life you can kill them. That's just reading what the card does but not explaining why it's a good choice in the current environment. Also I have experienced many times in playing against B/G/value that it is very rare that you get the full blow out with scion "countering" an abrupt decay in a way that would effect the game in any meaningful way. In other words, I know what it does, but what does it do?
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I would say that firstly the debate on which game-ending works (as far as scion vs swords go) is a wasted effort Im guessing. I think those with the plan of seeing which works better could potentially cut them completely for more cards that help in bad matchups; because what are they going to do? We win the game off of incremental advantage through our effects and planning how we handle the situation. I have honestly ended games just off of Mutavault and Creeping Tar Pit and have been comfortable doing so because they dont require that we use up card slots for effects that are terrible cards unless we are in a position of power.
My thoughts stem from an urging necessity to grow in comfort with my capabilities to sneak in damage when I find the opportunity, and these cards seem to tempt people into opening up their gameplan to accomodate some "finisher" that are clunky when drawn at the wrong time and really dont do anything on their own. Like, it feels like people have the same notion that I am trying to disprove in myself that our cards need to be made better when I think we can easily just create more opportunities for our creatures to get through with our cardslots.
This also opens up another debate point for Snapcaster Mage, where my original argument was as weak as not having room for him, in lists that are looking to fully attack the metagame also, as it is a reuse of our cards that open up room for our creatures to do damage AND is another damage dealer itself. If you look at each game as an opportunity to avoid being buried by your opponent's advantages it is a clear card to be playing in favor of cards that just push your opponent into the red. This is also where Creeping Tar-Pit comes in handy because it is a land-slot that fascilitates both colors necessary for game-progression and acts as the perfect damage dealer in situations where you have no other use for your mana.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
So you tried 6 removals? How did it go? I'm toying with this idea quite a bit, so i'd like to hear impression from people who tried it.
I'm sold to Doom Blade completely over gftt, but my removal suite right now is 2 warp 2 smother and 1 blade. What can i say i'm a sucker for potential two-for-one
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
Mt first choice for card draw in the deck was jace beleren instead of think twice because it has the ability to do far more than just draw a bonus card like think twice. But playing with beleren in our deck is completely different than how you would play it in another deck. Loosely quoting PVDDR here, "since we are a tribal based deck, our cards are worth less individually, but more together. Because of that each card that we can draw is going to be slightly more valuable than what our opponents will be drawing." Also you have to think about what effect he'll have in a game. You cast it against zoo, draw a card, he gets bolted. That's a two for one right there, gain 3 life and draw a card. But against lightning bolt decks you typically want to plus him first and then minus him all the way down.
Cast jace (1 card for you, 0 cards for opponent)
Plus jace, 5 loyalty (2 cards for you, 1 card for opponent)
Wild nacatl hits jace, 2 loyalty (2 cards for you, 1 card for opponent) 3 life gained
Opponent bolts jace (1 cards for you, 0 cards for opponent) 6 life gained
This is worst case scenario against zoo since you had zero way of interacting with them and protecting jace. and If you're not able to stop a single attack on jace you're dead anyways. If you don't care if he dies, then you're winning anyway. Average situation is that you have jace out and have some defense which means if you plus right away you'll be up at least 2-4 cards while jace eats burn and attack steps. All in all I think he's the best option we have for card draw even as a 3 mana sorcery. But as per usual, wtf do you cut for it? I've tried him before and was happy with it, but i wanted to make room for other things that I felt were a little more important.
As for jace 4 and bident, I don't think they're playable in modern. Modern is a turn 4 format which means you deck has to do one of three things (preferably more) to be considered viable in any tier:
A) Be capable of a consistent goldfish win on turn 4. We cannot do this.
B) Be casting something on turn 4 that is so powerful it either prevents any kind of a win or puts you insanely far ahead. Cryptic and mistbind clique both fit the bill incredibly well here while jace 4 and bident do not. 4 mana sorceries are very hard to protect, there's a reason scapeshift decks run a decent amount of countermagic.
C) Be Incredibly disruptive and win in the mid game. This is sort of the point of faeries.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the splinter twin tokens all have a CMC of 3 (same as exarch/pestermite? Or is that a different type of copy effect that I'm thinking of.
How relevant has that actually been? I'm sure it comes up a non-zero amount, but is it often enough to be scary? I've been using the classic doom blade because a wurmcoil slipping through the cracks has happened enough times that I'd like to have some form of answer to it main deck other than just hope (I sideboard in hope in all game 3's when I'm on the draw). For some reason I've been seeing the 6th titan show up in the damnedest of places from merfolk to UWR control and midrange, to even jund.
Actually it was 7 removal heh. I cut my 2 spell snares for slips in addition to my standard 5 removal and it went as you would expect it to, creature matches got way easier (even pod felt alright) while twin and UWR got far worse because I couldn't stop a snap caster from coming down and I wasn't able to stop a late game 6/7 goyf without losing something.
I personally think that rune snag is completely unplayable in modern just because of the card remand. That card is very popular and if they have it and need to protect a spell with it they'll be leaving open 2 mana anyways and your rune snag does nothing. Mana leak is just much more reliable and I strongly believe that reliability is what the deck needs.
Sure I would. On the play I have 4 discard spells, 2 spell snares, 3 smothers, and 3 mana leaks. On the draw I have all of that minus leaks which means I have 9-12 total answers for their 4 bobs on turn two. Also without DRS the card draw is no longer as "free" as it was before. Besides bob is the only creature, outside of the odd olivia, that doom blade misses from them while a resolved wurmcoil is basically lights out. Granted it shouldn't resolve, but assuming you always have the answer is foolish.
And we're so afraid of zoo because it's our worst match up and, unless the deck is actually unplayable for some reason, it will be very popular and we need a solid plan for it.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Mistbind Clique
Spells
3 Think Twice
3 Cryptic Command
4 Thoughtseize
2 Damnation
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Mana Leak
Other Permanents
4 Bitterblossom
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands
1 Swamp
4 Island
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Watery Grave
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Mutavault
1 Tectonic Edge
3 River of Tears
2 Spell Snare
2 Smother
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Go for the Throat
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
Don't take this as me being rude, but this list seems like it's just a much worse version of UWR control. Blue zenith is far worse than sphinx's revelation, celestial colonnade is a better late game man land than tar pit, and if you want be be full on control lightning bolt is the best removal spell at your disposal. So I'm not entirely sure why you would want to go in this direction.
That being said, I'm still not against playing some type of wrath in the main as a 1 of. I'd like EE more than BSZ or damnation personally since we can't actually remove permanents once they resolve other than cryptic bounce + counter.
If you're going this direction it's actually nearly worth it to look at Esper. I think 3 colors is bad in this format for Faeries, but if you're looking at BSZ, Revelation is a strict upgrade and hell, you might as well go all-out and gain access to better removal and sideboard options. Think it crosses over more into a control-type deck at that point, but still think it's better than BSZ in the format.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
I agree that as a pure control deck, UWR is better, and cards like revelation, bolt and colonade are what make it better. That being said, this deck is not a pure control deck. I would compare it more towards Caw-Blade and UW Flash. Out of all the removal options I have tried, Engineered Explosives has been my favorite removal spell. Disfigure has been utterly useless outside of T1 opening it. The 2 mana Doom Blade variations have each performed admirably, but nothing has compared to EE.
I thought about it too, but it is a little outside of my price range and has mana that would be kinda painful to keep consistent.
It still could be playable in the right meta, but I guess that wpn't be now though.
I can't see how anyone can say Zoo is a good matchup or will be vanished soon. Jund probably folds to zoo, as it folds against affinity. Zoo can be beaten by Fae, but it's dependend on a really good draw or a bad draw by the zoo player.
No I think you're misunderstanding me. When I was trying it in my initial list I was running it as a 3/1 body. Since it was a proxy and I was the only person working on a faeries list, nobody caught it since they hadn't played against scion of oona before. After the first few games they knew all of the cards in my deck list and what they may (or may not) have to play around, but just took my word for it that scion was a 3/1 body. Heh, yeah I looked like an ass when I told them. I liked it then because it plus a mutavault was a serious clock on their own, but as JUST a 1/1 and BB tokens being used as chumpers or eating electrolyzes the scion is just so underwhelming in the mid game or without a good board presence. And if I have a bunch of fae tokens flying over I'm already winning so it doesn't really add much to the deck. That and the fact that 3 mana is a lot to counter a removal spell, I just don't like it that much.
Here's my current list if anybody wants to give it a whirl. Still trying one or two new cards (namely a MD batterskull) that I've been fairly happy with. Currently modo broke so I can only test in paper a couple times a week with my play group.
4 bitter blossom
4 mistbind clique
4 spellstutter sprite
2 vendilion clique
1 batterskull
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of light and shadow
Interaction:
4 cryptic command
3 mana leak
2 spell snare
3 smother
2 doom blade
3 thoughtseize
1 inquisition of kozilek
4 mutavault
3 creeping tar pit
1 pendelhaven
4 darkslick shores
4 secluded glen
3 river of tears
1 sunken ruins
4 island
1 swamp
2 engineered explosives
2 damnation
3 spreading seas
3 deathmark
2 countersquall
2 spellskite
1 thoughtseize
@stokpile: our lists are quite alike minus the batterskull and switched removal spells. As far as it goes i think its near to optimum
Yeah like I said I'm just trying a MD batterskull because I side it in against almost every deck aside from tron. It isn't the type of sideboard card that is strictly a game 2 or 3 card (aside from twin, but game 1 is very good already) like extra discard or extra counter magic. Faeries is very good at grinding, but doesn't have anything really high impact so that's why I have the sword package and the skull. What's your removal suite and what do you think of doom blade vs go for the throat? Does the spellskite interaction and hitting bob on two come up enough to warrant not hitting wurm coils and assorted robots?
I'm on your boat too, but i play one more discard to have more play on turn 1 and i'm unsure on the second MD sword vs a snapcaster (it feels like having one more of every spell we play).
I run only 1 doom blade. As far as we exclude spellskite problem (i'm yet to see this be relevant) DC can be dealt with my other removals while wurmcoil not, and an extra removal vs robots is always welcome.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Scion is used not only to buff the power of your tokens and other faeries but used to also protect them. For example someone trys to destroy Bitterblossom you play scion now they need to deal with scion first making them waste another spell.
Ask the Guard to do the task, even death cannot prevent it from completion" -Mouse proverb
They cut down men like butchers among cattle -Lord Carver
UBWFaeries
Dredgevine
I'm running 2 Smother, 2 Dismember and 1 agony warp. The latter is awesome against aggro while I think Dismember is simply superior to both GftT and Doom Blade. If I had to choose I wpuld take Doom Blade thouhh.
That is what the rules text of the card says and how shroud interacts with flash, but isn't really an argument for the same reason that saying lightning bolt is good because it can deal 3 damage to a creature and kill it or if you opponent is at 3 life you can kill them. That's just reading what the card does but not explaining why it's a good choice in the current environment. Also I have experienced many times in playing against B/G/value that it is very rare that you get the full blow out with scion "countering" an abrupt decay in a way that would effect the game in any meaningful way. In other words, I know what it does, but what does it do?