To me, it seems like this deck wants to play disruption in the early game, play tempo with Geist in the midgame, and use Zur for later inevitability.
I think hand disruption is a good idea for Zur, but I'm not sure if I'd want to run the 7 discard spells together with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Let's assume we run a lot of stuff as bare minimums, but have the full Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe + 7 discard package:
23 Lands
4 Meddling Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Geist
3 Zur
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere
This brings us to 48 cards, or 51 after 3 Path to Exile, leaving us little room to play with stuff like Remand, additional Detention Spheres, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and so on. At this point, do we go all the way with hand disruption (bringing in Tidehollow Sculler), do we try to add some versatility despite how few slots we have available, or do we try a different route entirely?
Here's a half-baked idea: What if we went with a mana denial plan? Combine Spreading Seas, Aven Mindcensor, and Ghost Quarter in the same list and a lot of decks get hit hard.Unfortunately, since we're 3 colors, we won't be able to run the full playset of Ghost Quarter.
Turning things blue messes with the mana bases of Jund, and Tron, and Mindcensor hurts Pod more than just hitting their fetchlands. UWR loses some removal when things become islands, but still has remand and Cryptic.
Given the amount of removal run by some decks, Jund in particular, Mindcensor may wind up as a 3-cost search hoser rather than a constant board presence. If we use Mindcensor like this, we'll need to support it with other instant-speed spells, which establishes Remand, Snapcaster, and Vendilion Clique as spots in the deck.
Incidentally, if we wind up being light on multicolored spells (running this package and no Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage), we might be able to safely run 3 Ghost Quarter in the 24 lands.
Don't forget Shadow of Doubt for the land hate package that you mentioned.
By the way, tried this deck the other day, copied the list from GNC. Swinging with Zur felt very powerful, and I liked the idea of discard + Geist. However, I must say (and this is constructive criticism) that the mana base was horrible, lost a few games to it. (3 swamps + 2 Overgrowns is just too much)
I do like the one posted by Funeralofgods more, SOM fastlands should be played in this deck, although I still think it has room to improve. Something like -2 River of Tears and +1 Darkslick Shores, +1 Seachrome coast.
Confidant and Shaman felt out of place in this deck, and this comes from someone that loves these cards. But the meedling mage + Probe package doesn't seem any good either.
I'm probably going to use a combination of counterspells (leak, remand and/or Spell snare), Vendilions and snapcasters in those slots.
Spreading seas should be a 1-of in the MD as an answer for manlands, 3 felt like too much.
Having multiple D. spheres was relevant though. I could see myself going down to 2, but never to 1.
oops. derp. my bad.
i've been doing some searching on gatherer for blue enchantments of CMC3 or less..... the goal was to find something that switched Thassa on...
however i came across a few interesting cards anwyay.
erayo's essence - correct me if i'm wrong, but you can search this up using Zur...?
ghastly haunting - it's the flipped side, but searchable? not sure on the rulings here.
nimbus naiad - propogating your board presence? not bad.
First of all, you can't search for cards that are enchantments after they flip... second, most of those you mentioned are in the primer and have been dismissed for not doing enough.
You need to think what these cards would do to help the deck.
Nighthowler looks fun, but what's he good against? Not Tron, Twin, or Storm decks. Not good against Jund, who run Deathrite Shaman + Scavenging Ooze. That leaves very few decks where it's even guaranteed to be a non-0/0. It isn't costed efficiently enough to run him without Zur, so that's a pretty good reason not to run it in the first place.
Sanctimony isn't even good in general. Red decks have creatures in them which that card does nothing against. If you want an anti-red card, use Circle of Protection: Red or Story Circle.
Although admittedly, you're probably not going to be wanting to flood the board. It's narrow and a little slow.
Once again, everyone needs to be asking themselves, "is this card worth playing in a deck that can't sneak it into play?"
Playing Zur doesn't mean playing random enchantments just because they are enchantments. If you wouldn't pay 3 for a 2/2 vanilla flier or 5 for +2/+2 and flying, then it isn't good enough to be played period.
To clarify:
Tutoring out a Bestow creature with Zur sticks it onto the field, as a creature. Bestow creatures become Auras only when cast for their Bestow cost.
Thassa is an interesting idea that has been thrown around, but the primary issue is that Zur himself doesn't come down until turn 4 and doesn't swing until turn 5, so chances are you'll be frantically searching for Detention Sphere to deal with your opponent's field. If you swing with Zur and have the spare turn to tutor Thassa, you're already winning hard. Also, turning her into a creature is a bad idea because she's likely to just get pathed.
The enchantment synergy isnt strong enough to run subpar enchantments. Think about what you're playing against. You're playing against bobs, goyfs, t3 karns, t4 win the game combos, against cards that are very very good. Either you have to have absurdly strong synergy (affinity) or play good cards that are good on their own.
Even stuff like steel of the godhead is barely playable.
It'll be nice if they print some decent enchantments in the next two sets but i don't see anything in theros that i would ever want to tutor. Certainly not a wind drake..
I've been testing the 2 different versions of the deck a lot and think the middle ground is better than either.
The first change I've made to the normal deck being run is taking out Deathrites again. Against a lot of decks you actually just don't need it, and against some of the decks you want it for, you'd rather be running Rest in Peace. I think this is the most metagame dependent choice I've made so far.
Aside from that, I tried running the no Remand version and really missed them. Hand hate and extra removal are great, but cycling while delaying the opponent for a turn and having a top deck that still draws you a card is too much to pass up. They are extremely useful for finding your 4th land by turn 4. I found myself not really caring about the Gitaxian Probes, so dropped 1 to fit in extra stuff. I also dropped a Clique because there are so many good things to play in this deck that getting an extra Clique stuck in your hand isn't worth the risk. Here's my current testing list that I'm going with:
I've lost games to having 2x River of Tears. Missing a land drop is already bad, but if it stops me from playing a Disfigure or Thoughtseize it's just a game loss sometimes. I've dropped it down to 1x since it's still good to have free untapped lands to play. I tried out the Darkslick Shores style lands and do not like them. We like hitting 4 mana and playing our 4 drops, and sometimes you already have lands like Creeping Tar Pit messing with your tempo, and also requiring a 4th untapped land to activate on turn 4. I think it's overall better to play shock duals, being this mana hungry.
Creeping Tar Pit is just better than Celestial Colonnade. It hits Planeswalkers way better and you don't need 6 lands to activate and use it.
Also, Eiganjo Castle hasn't been pulling much weight recently. It's a good land, though, since it makes colors and doesn't hurt you. I'm not necessarily considering removing it yet, but it has shown a bit of weakness so far.
I'm liking the look of this list. It seems to have a good amount of both hand and field disruption. I'm fully agreed about Tar Pit being better than Colonnade, since this deck shouldn't expect to sit on 6 mana.
I'm starting to agree that Spreading Seas should be run as a 2-of in the side at most, to deal with specific problematic lands, rather than general mana denial. I'm also starting to favor Shadow of Doubt (should we choose to run it) over Aven Mindcensor. By the time we have 3 mana, decks other than tron probably have some sort of removal ready for us. The cantrip on Shadow of Doubt is also a big bonus.
I'm also thinking that we should side in some form of search denial to help against Tron. Their wincons include creatures too, so we can't just rely on Negate and Remand, even though Negate hits a lot of stuff (Karn, Oblivion Stone, Mindslaver)
For sideboard, I'm thinking something along the lines of:
Stony Silence hits Affinity and Pod.
Rest in Peace hits quite a few decks that rely on the graveyard (anything with Goyf or DRS suffers).
Spreading Seas is there for Tron to deal with their land-based threats, but few decks can't recover from one or two of these, so I don't know if it's worth 2 slots in the side.
Threads of Disloyalty hits Bogle, UWR Geist tempo, and Delver (although there are probably better ways to deal with Delver).
Spellskite helps slightly vs Affinity (can chump an Etched Champion for a turn, and can mess with Arcbound Ravager) although it doesn't play well with Stony Silence. VS Jund, it can redirect an Abrupt Decay away from a Meddling Mage. It also hoses aura-reliant decks.
Negate for random non-creature spells.
Rule of Law for Storm (if they durdle) or cascade-based decks.
Shadow of Doubt can hurt Tron, stick a bump in the way of Jund, and hit Scapeshift. It's pretty strong when it's good (counter a search that also cantrips) but it might be too narrow.
Darkblast to hit small creatures. Primarily Bob and Delver, I guess?
I wouldn't play Shadow of Doubt over Aven Mindcensor at all. You don't care about stopping 1 of Tron's searches that much. Stopping (effectively) ALL of their searches is so much better it's hard to describe.
If they have Tron assembled and Eye of Ugin, Shadow of Doubt stalls a turn. If you have Aven Mindcensor, it completely turns it off.
If they have Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying, Shadow of the Doubt is just a counterspell. Aven Mindcensor stops not only that one, but all following ones.
Other than that, having 2 damage per turn is pretty great, since you want the game to end as early as possible. Yes, you'll get pyroclasmed, but you play him in response to a search effect so you're going to get value regardless.
And yes, I've been screwed by them finding the card they need in the top 4, but you have to play the probabilities if you want to win.
I don't run 4, 3 seems good enough since you should have some other stuff that's good against tron. I currently have 2 Negates, 2 Stony Silence, and 3 Aven Mindcensors extra to throw in there (and usually a Rest in Peace if it's the blue flavor of Tron just to hit their Mind lock and maybe a Solemn trigger). That along with ~7 discard, 3 Remand, 4 Meddling Mage, and Detention Sphere has actually given me a favorable matchup against them (along with Paths too for their Wurmcoils and even a Far/Away to make them sac Emrakul if that is ever relevant).
I've taken out Spreading Seas completely. I just wouldn't fetch it up with Zur and stuff like Aven Mindcensor or Negate is better against more decks and usually is good enough against Tron.
Also, note that in my list I'm running 2x Tec edge which is different from others. Hitting their Eye of Ugin before it gives them tons of card advantage is important, and sometimes you'll win games just by killing their Tron.
I would like to have your thoughts on a tech card featured in Shahar Shenhar's deck to battle affinity: Blade Splicer. Apparently the thought process was Geist of Saint Traft was ditched in favor of the Splicer. Splicer technically does the same thing, but the colorless property of the golem token, plus First Strike put on it via Blade Splicer trumped Geist and his colored flying angel token in the matchup w/ affinity... Enough that Blade Splicer took Geist's place in the main board.
That said, should the same idea work in this deck as well? The problem MU seems to be the same deck in question, so Blade Splicer might work here also, right?
I would like to have your thoughts on a tech card featured in Shahar Shenhar's deck to battle affinity: Blade Splicer. Apparently the thought process was Geist of Saint Traft was ditched in favor of the Splicer. Splicer technically does the same thing, but the colorless property of the golem token, plus First Strike put on it via Blade Splicer trumped Geist and his colored flying angel token in the matchup w/ affinity... Enough that Blade Splicer took Geist's place in the main board.
The thing is, is it really worth the spot just because of the bonus it gets from steel of godhead?
Against affinity, Geist does nothing. it's only good vs. everything else. Whereas blade splicer does a better job against a bad match, and a decent job for the rest.
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The thing is, is it really worth the spot just because of the bonus it gets from steel of godhead?
Against affinity, Geist does nothing. it's only good vs. everything else. Whereas blade splicer does a better job against a bad match, and a decent job for the rest.
I don't get where you are coming from. Affinity isn't that bad of a matchup when you are playing 3 dismember 4 path and 2 detention spheres maindeck, and even Meddling Mages to hit cranial platings. Then post sideboard you have extra Stony Silence and more spot removal or just Threads.
Geist doesn't do nothing against affinity, it gives you a faster clock than Blade Splicer does. The only thing Blade Splicer does better is block an Etched Champion.
But if you consider basically every other matchup, you'd rather have Geist. First, he's by far the best creature in the deck against UWR midrange. A single Lightning Bolt turns your 3 mana into a 1/1 only. That deck plays like 8 bolts and Ajani Vengeants and Snapcasters.
A 6 damage clock is way better against unfair decks that play no creatures, as you can just drop it and keep mana up every turn after that. A 4 damage clock is much too slow to be overly threatening.
And just 1 more point I want to make, you can't discount the games where you get Steel on Geist. That combo is disgusting, and even though you only have 2 Steels to naturally draw into, it's still great to have a deck that just auto wins with a good hand.
The thing is, is it really worth the spot just because of the bonus it gets from steel of godhead?
Against affinity, Geist does nothing. it's only good vs. everything else. Whereas blade splicer does a better job against a bad match, and a decent job for the rest.
If you aren't running Traft, there is little reason to be running Steel of the Godehead. If you aren't running Steal of the Godhead, Zur us only there to fetch Detention Sphere and a few sideboard cards, which makes him a sideboard card at best. At this point you would probably add a few more removal spells and maybe a couple of Restoration Angels. That eliminates the whole point of the deck.
So I apparently lost track of this deck somehow within the last week then. lol
Because I certainly didn't see a list that included Dismember. That change wasn't presented on the OP so I was still assuming that Affinity was still a bad MU that Blade Splicer might make it better.
I haven't tested this deck yet with a full set of Geist (only got 2. =.=) so I was thinking I could slot in Blade Splicer.>_>
A bit more on the removal suite does make the MU a bit more of a manageable, so what comes out/in vs Affinity?
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He probably meant disfigure, which is still big enough to hit every creature in affinity without counters on it.
Right you are. I have some sort of mental block in remembering "Disfigure" instead of "Dismember."
What comes in and out really depends on what your sideboard and maindeck is. If you're using the latest list I posted you can take out Remands and a Steel (Always leave in 1 steel, but you can take out the 2nd against fast decks that you can't interact with much in combat).
That's 4 slots, I keep 2 Stony Silence and 1 more disfigure sideboard, and then whatever else you have that's marginally good (Threads for me).
Runed Halo was sort of dismissed on the first page, but it seems good against Scapeshift, Bogle, Lilianas, and UWR (shuts down Colonnades). It can also deal with Etched Champion in a pinch. Is there any merit in running it as a 1-of in the board?
And what about Suppression Field out of the board against Twin, Pod, and man-lands?
Right you are. I have some sort of mental block in remembering "Disfigure" instead of "Dismember."
What comes in and out really depends on what your sideboard and maindeck is. If you're using the latest list I posted you can take out Remands and a Steel (Always leave in 1 steel, but you can take out the 2nd against fast decks that you can't interact with much in combat).
That's 4 slots, I keep 2 Stony Silence and 1 more disfigure sideboard, and then whatever else you have that's marginally good (Threads for me).
So there wasn't an increase in the removal suite at all? The way it is now, I'm still not convinced w/ the match up game 1... so I guess it really is up to G2 or possibly G3 when it comes down to it, huh? But might it be just me not being able to run a 3rd or 4th Geist? *sigh* >_>
I like this deck, but I might need more tweaking to it. I might give the 1 or 2 slots I've thought of dedicating to 1 or 2 geist for a dismember, or two, instead of Blade Splicer for now to test it vs the Affinity deck I just finished building 2 days ago.
I'm currently at this list:
I might give -1 Vendillion Clique and possibly -1 Snapcaster Mage since those 2 are the cards I often see in my hand that I wish was another card instead at times. Maybe +1 Disfigure and +1 Dismember.
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Runed Halo was sort of dismissed on the first page, but it seems good against Scapeshift, Bogle, Lilianas, and UWR (shuts down Colonnades). It can also deal with Etched Champion in a pinch. Is there any merit in running it as a 1-of in the board?
If you want to put in a card in the sideboard you should always consider what deck it's worth it for (especially 1-of silver bullets). Runed Halo doesn't do much against pod, they either fetch Harmonic Sliver, Qasali Pride Mage, or kill you with one of their other many win conditions.
There are a decent amount of cards that are good against Scapeshift, but I would much rather have Aven Mindcensors in that sideboard slot since it completely screws over them and many other decks.
Halo is good against Boggle decks, but would you want it over Threads of Disloyalty to just steal the Boggle (which is good against other decks too)?
Sure, it's good against Etched Champion, but the majority of times I die to that deck is them just dropping their opening hand on the table turn 1 and then grabbing and equipping a Cranial turn 2. Etched can win the mid/late game, but I'm less worried about this as it means I've actually reached mid/late game.
And what about Suppression Field out of the board against Twin, Pod, and man-lands?
You're running a good deal of your own fetchlands and manlands, so I don't see this as being a good all around card. As a silver bullet, it doesn't seem better than other options.
Against Twin I'd rather have Ghostly Prison. GP is great against random other swarm decks as well.
Against Pod this doesn't do that much, they'll still be happy to pay 3 mana to sac their dude. It shuts off some of their infinite wins, but they'll still bury you in card advantage and just bash you to death.
You have your own manlands, and would you ever board this in against a deck that plays them? Like, would you want this card against UWR control?
So there wasn't an increase in the removal suite at all? The way it is now, I'm still not convinced w/ the match up game 1... so I guess it really is up to G2 or possibly G3 when it comes down to it, huh? But might it be just me not being able to run a 3rd or 4th Geist? *sigh* >_>
7 Instant removal + spheres + hand hate goes a long way towards winning G1 against affinity. If you are trying to have a good hand against Affinity's ridiculous draws, no deck really can do that. Affinity is streaky though, some games you'll crush them, some games they play all their hand on turn 1. Going any heavier into removal for them seems unnecessary since it hurts your other matchups considerably.
I might give -1 Vendillion Clique and possibly -1 Snapcaster Mage since those 2 are the cards I often see in my hand that I wish was another card instead at times. Maybe +1 Disfigure and +1 Dismember.
Clique really hasn't impressed me, at least in the Discard versions of this deck. He's good at protecting your turn 4 Zur, but still isn't better than "decent" against the majority of decks in the format. I like 3 Snapcasters better than 2 Snapcasters + more removal since you'll really be handicapping yourself against stuff like Tron and UWR control by going so heavy into removal.
If you know your meta really well and those decks aren't being played then you probably could do that, though.
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Don't forget Shadow of Doubt for the land hate package that you mentioned.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
i mean.... buh? win out of nowhere?
sure, if you draw it, it's a dead card, but then so is Land a lot of the time, so i don't see the problem. a singleton would be worth it.
oops. derp. my bad.
i've been doing some searching on gatherer for blue enchantments of CMC3 or less..... the goal was to find something that switched Thassa on...
however i came across a few interesting cards anwyay.
erayo's essence - correct me if i'm wrong, but you can search this up using Zur...?
ghastly haunting - it's the flipped side, but searchable? not sure on the rulings here.
nimbus naiad - propogating your board presence? not bad.
threads of disloyalty - now that's a good card.
aura of silence - neat affinity/pod tech?
blind obedience - neat anti-aggro tool
celestial dawn - weird. mana fixing?
dark tutelage - tutorable bob?
dead weight - removal?
declaration of naught - hilarious targeted counter =P
gift of immortality - *shrug* decent
glorious anthem - alpha strike material. not bad at all.
illness in the ranks - anti-token card
mark of asylum - anti-bolt tech
nighthowler - kinda like a black tarmogoyf, only tutorable? Wow, i really like this guy with Zur.
opal guardian - not bad.
prison term - nice card!
rune-tail's essence - another rules question. if searchable, very powerful.
sanctimony - anti red-deck tech. incredibly powerful
seal of doom - tutorable doom blade. decent!
spear of heliod - anthem effect
that's the cream of the crop from every single blue, white and black enchantment of CMC3 or less in the whole modern card pool. lol.
take your pick. there are some good ones.
You need to think what these cards would do to help the deck.
Nighthowler looks fun, but what's he good against? Not Tron, Twin, or Storm decks. Not good against Jund, who run Deathrite Shaman + Scavenging Ooze. That leaves very few decks where it's even guaranteed to be a non-0/0. It isn't costed efficiently enough to run him without Zur, so that's a pretty good reason not to run it in the first place.
Sanctimony isn't even good in general. Red decks have creatures in them which that card does nothing against. If you want an anti-red card, use Circle of Protection: Red or Story Circle.
Phyrexian Arena is better in this deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
A yes. I was getting ahead of myself.
I actually quite like nimbus naiad for its somewhat hero of bladehold-esque interaction with zur.
Although admittedly, you're probably not going to be wanting to flood the board. It's narrow and a little slow.
Once again, everyone needs to be asking themselves, "is this card worth playing in a deck that can't sneak it into play?"
Playing Zur doesn't mean playing random enchantments just because they are enchantments. If you wouldn't pay 3 for a 2/2 vanilla flier or 5 for +2/+2 and flying, then it isn't good enough to be played period.
Tutoring out a Bestow creature with Zur sticks it onto the field, as a creature. Bestow creatures become Auras only when cast for their Bestow cost.
Thassa is an interesting idea that has been thrown around, but the primary issue is that Zur himself doesn't come down until turn 4 and doesn't swing until turn 5, so chances are you'll be frantically searching for Detention Sphere to deal with your opponent's field. If you swing with Zur and have the spare turn to tutor Thassa, you're already winning hard. Also, turning her into a creature is a bad idea because she's likely to just get pathed.
Even stuff like steel of the godhead is barely playable.
It'll be nice if they print some decent enchantments in the next two sets but i don't see anything in theros that i would ever want to tutor. Certainly not a wind drake..
The first change I've made to the normal deck being run is taking out Deathrites again. Against a lot of decks you actually just don't need it, and against some of the decks you want it for, you'd rather be running Rest in Peace. I think this is the most metagame dependent choice I've made so far.
Aside from that, I tried running the no Remand version and really missed them. Hand hate and extra removal are great, but cycling while delaying the opponent for a turn and having a top deck that still draws you a card is too much to pass up. They are extremely useful for finding your 4th land by turn 4. I found myself not really caring about the Gitaxian Probes, so dropped 1 to fit in extra stuff. I also dropped a Clique because there are so many good things to play in this deck that getting an extra Clique stuck in your hand isn't worth the risk. Here's my current testing list that I'm going with:
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 River of Tears
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Path to Exile
1 Far-Away
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Remand
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Meddling Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Zur the Enchanter
2 Steel of the Godhead
2 Detention Sphere
A note about the manabase:
I've lost games to having 2x River of Tears. Missing a land drop is already bad, but if it stops me from playing a Disfigure or Thoughtseize it's just a game loss sometimes. I've dropped it down to 1x since it's still good to have free untapped lands to play. I tried out the Darkslick Shores style lands and do not like them. We like hitting 4 mana and playing our 4 drops, and sometimes you already have lands like Creeping Tar Pit messing with your tempo, and also requiring a 4th untapped land to activate on turn 4. I think it's overall better to play shock duals, being this mana hungry.
Creeping Tar Pit is just better than Celestial Colonnade. It hits Planeswalkers way better and you don't need 6 lands to activate and use it.
Also, Eiganjo Castle hasn't been pulling much weight recently. It's a good land, though, since it makes colors and doesn't hurt you. I'm not necessarily considering removing it yet, but it has shown a bit of weakness so far.
I'm starting to agree that Spreading Seas should be run as a 2-of in the side at most, to deal with specific problematic lands, rather than general mana denial. I'm also starting to favor Shadow of Doubt (should we choose to run it) over Aven Mindcensor. By the time we have 3 mana, decks other than tron probably have some sort of removal ready for us. The cantrip on Shadow of Doubt is also a big bonus.
I'm also thinking that we should side in some form of search denial to help against Tron. Their wincons include creatures too, so we can't just rely on Negate and Remand, even though Negate hits a lot of stuff (Karn, Oblivion Stone, Mindslaver)
For sideboard, I'm thinking something along the lines of:
This is just a really rough guess.
Rest in Peace hits quite a few decks that rely on the graveyard (anything with Goyf or DRS suffers).
Spreading Seas is there for Tron to deal with their land-based threats, but few decks can't recover from one or two of these, so I don't know if it's worth 2 slots in the side.
Threads of Disloyalty hits Bogle, UWR Geist tempo, and Delver (although there are probably better ways to deal with Delver).
Spellskite helps slightly vs Affinity (can chump an Etched Champion for a turn, and can mess with Arcbound Ravager) although it doesn't play well with Stony Silence. VS Jund, it can redirect an Abrupt Decay away from a Meddling Mage. It also hoses aura-reliant decks.
Negate for random non-creature spells.
Rule of Law for Storm (if they durdle) or cascade-based decks.
Shadow of Doubt can hurt Tron, stick a bump in the way of Jund, and hit Scapeshift. It's pretty strong when it's good (counter a search that also cantrips) but it might be too narrow.
Darkblast to hit small creatures. Primarily Bob and Delver, I guess?
If they have Tron assembled and Eye of Ugin, Shadow of Doubt stalls a turn. If you have Aven Mindcensor, it completely turns it off.
If they have Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying, Shadow of the Doubt is just a counterspell. Aven Mindcensor stops not only that one, but all following ones.
Other than that, having 2 damage per turn is pretty great, since you want the game to end as early as possible. Yes, you'll get pyroclasmed, but you play him in response to a search effect so you're going to get value regardless.
And yes, I've been screwed by them finding the card they need in the top 4, but you have to play the probabilities if you want to win.
I've taken out Spreading Seas completely. I just wouldn't fetch it up with Zur and stuff like Aven Mindcensor or Negate is better against more decks and usually is good enough against Tron.
Also, note that in my list I'm running 2x Tec edge which is different from others. Hitting their Eye of Ugin before it gives them tons of card advantage is important, and sometimes you'll win games just by killing their Tron.
That said, should the same idea work in this deck as well? The problem MU seems to be the same deck in question, so Blade Splicer might work here also, right?
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
It can't replace Traft in this. It doesn't work well with Steel of the Godhead.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The thing is, is it really worth the spot just because of the bonus it gets from steel of godhead?
Against affinity, Geist does nothing. it's only good vs. everything else. Whereas blade splicer does a better job against a bad match, and a decent job for the rest.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
I don't get where you are coming from. Affinity isn't that bad of a matchup when you are playing 3 dismember 4 path and 2 detention spheres maindeck, and even Meddling Mages to hit cranial platings. Then post sideboard you have extra Stony Silence and more spot removal or just Threads.
Geist doesn't do nothing against affinity, it gives you a faster clock than Blade Splicer does. The only thing Blade Splicer does better is block an Etched Champion.
But if you consider basically every other matchup, you'd rather have Geist. First, he's by far the best creature in the deck against UWR midrange. A single Lightning Bolt turns your 3 mana into a 1/1 only. That deck plays like 8 bolts and Ajani Vengeants and Snapcasters.
A 6 damage clock is way better against unfair decks that play no creatures, as you can just drop it and keep mana up every turn after that. A 4 damage clock is much too slow to be overly threatening.
And just 1 more point I want to make, you can't discount the games where you get Steel on Geist. That combo is disgusting, and even though you only have 2 Steels to naturally draw into, it's still great to have a deck that just auto wins with a good hand.
If you aren't running Traft, there is little reason to be running Steel of the Godehead. If you aren't running Steal of the Godhead, Zur us only there to fetch Detention Sphere and a few sideboard cards, which makes him a sideboard card at best. At this point you would probably add a few more removal spells and maybe a couple of Restoration Angels. That eliminates the whole point of the deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Because I certainly didn't see a list that included Dismember. That change wasn't presented on the OP so I was still assuming that Affinity was still a bad MU that Blade Splicer might make it better.
I haven't tested this deck yet with a full set of Geist (only got 2. =.=) so I was thinking I could slot in Blade Splicer.>_>
A bit more on the removal suite does make the MU a bit more of a manageable, so what comes out/in vs Affinity?
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Right you are. I have some sort of mental block in remembering "Disfigure" instead of "Dismember."
What comes in and out really depends on what your sideboard and maindeck is. If you're using the latest list I posted you can take out Remands and a Steel (Always leave in 1 steel, but you can take out the 2nd against fast decks that you can't interact with much in combat).
That's 4 slots, I keep 2 Stony Silence and 1 more disfigure sideboard, and then whatever else you have that's marginally good (Threads for me).
And what about Suppression Field out of the board against Twin, Pod, and man-lands?
So there wasn't an increase in the removal suite at all? The way it is now, I'm still not convinced w/ the match up game 1... so I guess it really is up to G2 or possibly G3 when it comes down to it, huh? But might it be just me not being able to run a 3rd or 4th Geist? *sigh* >_>
I like this deck, but I might need more tweaking to it. I might give the 1 or 2 slots I've thought of dedicating to 1 or 2 geist for a dismember, or two, instead of Blade Splicer for now to test it vs the Affinity deck I just finished building 2 days ago.
I'm currently at this list:
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Zur the Enchanter
2 Steel of the Godhead
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Detention Sphere
Spells (19)
3 Disfigure
3 Path to Exile
1 Far-Away
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Remand
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 River of Tears
1 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Watery Grave
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
If you want to put in a card in the sideboard you should always consider what deck it's worth it for (especially 1-of silver bullets). Runed Halo doesn't do much against pod, they either fetch Harmonic Sliver, Qasali Pride Mage, or kill you with one of their other many win conditions.
There are a decent amount of cards that are good against Scapeshift, but I would much rather have Aven Mindcensors in that sideboard slot since it completely screws over them and many other decks.
Halo is good against Boggle decks, but would you want it over Threads of Disloyalty to just steal the Boggle (which is good against other decks too)?
Sure, it's good against Etched Champion, but the majority of times I die to that deck is them just dropping their opening hand on the table turn 1 and then grabbing and equipping a Cranial turn 2. Etched can win the mid/late game, but I'm less worried about this as it means I've actually reached mid/late game.
You're running a good deal of your own fetchlands and manlands, so I don't see this as being a good all around card. As a silver bullet, it doesn't seem better than other options.
Against Twin I'd rather have Ghostly Prison. GP is great against random other swarm decks as well.
Against Pod this doesn't do that much, they'll still be happy to pay 3 mana to sac their dude. It shuts off some of their infinite wins, but they'll still bury you in card advantage and just bash you to death.
You have your own manlands, and would you ever board this in against a deck that plays them? Like, would you want this card against UWR control?
7 Instant removal + spheres + hand hate goes a long way towards winning G1 against affinity. If you are trying to have a good hand against Affinity's ridiculous draws, no deck really can do that. Affinity is streaky though, some games you'll crush them, some games they play all their hand on turn 1. Going any heavier into removal for them seems unnecessary since it hurts your other matchups considerably.
Clique really hasn't impressed me, at least in the Discard versions of this deck. He's good at protecting your turn 4 Zur, but still isn't better than "decent" against the majority of decks in the format. I like 3 Snapcasters better than 2 Snapcasters + more removal since you'll really be handicapping yourself against stuff like Tron and UWR control by going so heavy into removal.
If you know your meta really well and those decks aren't being played then you probably could do that, though.