The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
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I don't think that the Genesis Wave has fallen out of fashion, just more discussion about a different version.
The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
Defense grid seems good. Have you considered cavern of souls For a similar reason to boseiju. The mb seems very similar to what I'm thinking (i recently brought the deck in paper off another player but was very similar to your original list which wizards featured).
My meta is mainly jund, affinity and pod so thats what id sb for. Do you think predator ooze might be a good mb choice taking this into account?
Yeah, Cavern is something that I've considered but haven't taken any action on it.
I have tried Predator Ooze in the main to mixed results. There were some match ups that it was great in, but overall it was unimpressive. If you're playing Wave, you want stuff that has an immediate impact on the board, which Ooze doesn't.
Against Pod, I like using Scavenging Ooze. Affinity, you can race them with a Wave, but you also have Creeping Corrosion. Jund, I like more Primal Command and Plow Under. I've also had Garruk, Primal Hunter in there too, since Jund has a real hard time with it (as does control at times)
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I don't think that the Genesis Wave has fallen out of fashion, just more discussion about a different version.
The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
Defense grid seems good. Have you considered cavern of souls For a similar reason to boseiju. The mb seems very similar to what I'm thinking (i recently brought the deck in paper off another player but was very similar to your original list which wizards featured).
My meta is mainly jund, affinity and pod so thats what id sb for. Do you think predator ooze might be a good mb choice taking this into account?
A cute card vs affinity is fracturing gust. It's not very hard for us to cast and if you cast it turn 3 or 4 you basically win. It's also hilarious vs boggles. Also vs both pod and affinity play ancient grudge. But yea scavenging ooze is the way to go vs both jund and pod.
4-3 a PTQ, loosing to boogles (0-2, couldnt find craterhoof or chord for him, 3 titans are not enought), affinity (1-2, won game 1 and lost game 2&3 after not finding any relevant sb cards within 10 tourns each - casted 5 path to exile for example with all resto/witness shenanigans) and BW Pack Rats (1-2, lost game 3 after seize your path go of with pack rats).
This was my only tournament I didnt cash out. Cash out every other modern tournament I attended (that includes 1 or 2 Daily events and any amount of Thurdsday or Friday Tournaments. My local store is quite competetive one with a pro tour competitor and ptqs grinders).
With my setup I have:
Very favorable matchups >85: BGx Rock, Burn, Scapeshift, UWR non Kiki Control, UR Delver tempo, Melira Pod, Zoo and not enought test games but still here: Living End , RG Tron, B Discard
Good ~65-75: Kiki Pod, UWR Kiki Control, BW Pack Rats, not enought games but still here: U Tron
Close matchups ~50%: Affinity, Hatebears, Merfolk
Really bad: Infect, Storm, Eggs, Boogles, Eternal Control, Twin (UR, Turbo, Tarmo), and not enought test games: Time Vault, Mono G Agro.
I've read the past ten pages or so, and I've been tooling around with gnuhouse's latest list, which looks to be something like the definitive version. At the moment, much like the standard monogreen devotion deck, it seems powerful but kind of inconsistent. I'm curious if there is a list of the variant that drops all the Genesis Waves and just goes for Tooth and Nail into a few Craterhoofs? Obviously Genesis Waves seals the win if you get enough devotion on the board, but Tooth and Nail seems somewhat more direct.
I'm also curious what the veteran pilots of this deck (as much as a veteran as one can be considering how new the deck is) think of Early Harvest or Magus of the Candelabra in this deck.
Also, I wish the OP did a better job of going over all the many variants along with the typical and ideal lines of play. I realize many of the variants have only popped up recently, but the primer seems weak compared to most of the others I have read.
I think Primer was made by a person who currently doesnt even play with this deck, so I dont really think there is anything to do.
Problem with Genesis Wave / Tooth and Nail is the fact that it is completely dead most of the time. Having 9 mana is not easy to achieve when opponent is interracting with you, and if he isnt Primal Command lock is probably better at that point. Dont get me wrong, I just think going all in as a pure combo deck is wrong option, thats why I play more grindy green midrange with lots of card advantage and with ups I win option of kessig wolf run or primal command lock.
Btw what do you guys thinks about Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. Is it better or worse than Plow Under vs matchups where it is relevant, ec. Tron, Scapeshift, Control etc.
I've read the past ten pages or so, and I've been tooling around with gnuhouse's latest list, which looks to be something like the definitive version. At the moment, much like the standard monogreen devotion deck, it seems powerful but kind of inconsistent. I'm curious if there is a list of the variant that drops all the Genesis Waves and just goes for Tooth and Nail into a few Craterhoofs? Obviously Genesis Waves seals the win if you get enough devotion on the board, but Tooth and Nail seems somewhat more direct.
I'm also curious what the veteran pilots of this deck (as much as a veteran as one can be considering how new the deck is) think of Early Harvest or Magus of the Candelabra in this deck.
Also, I wish the OP did a better job of going over all the many variants along with the typical and ideal lines of play. I realize many of the variants have only popped up recently, but the primer seems weak compared to most of the others I have read.
There was a Summoner's Pact/Tooth and Nail version a few months back that went X-0 day 1 at a European GP (I think the one that TarmTwin won). I think Pedros' write up on Dies to Removal has a link to it.
As for the Primer, I've asked to take it over so I'll probably take some time to write it up again. I'll probably split it into two, one for a Genesis Wave dependent version (like I run), and one for a non-Genesis Wave dependent version (like Pedros runs).
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That would be awsome if you could take over a primer You can use some of my descriptions if you want from Dies to Removal.
Btw did you have time / card to test non-Genesis Wave version I was running? As you can see I currently am running 2 Chord of Calling md, I think they do similar things like Tooth And Nail (basicly chording for hoof is still gg most of the time, however you have option for other creatures and rebuy it later with witness). You still have option of going big for Craterhoof or Elesh Norn (11 or 10 mana), however you can tap creatures such as selkie, witness etc to help it out.
What do you guys think about M15 cards? I am looking mainly at Nissa, Worldwaker to suplement Garruk Wildspeaker, however we dont play that many lands to use 2nd ability to its full potential, however +1 is quite good - another usage of fetchlands that doesnt have other targets (+ wrath protection as you can crack them in response if needed).
Btw did anyone test out Garruk, Primal Hunter? Sometimes I run out of gas (It is really hard thou with all this card advantage), so using 2nd ability after pumping stuff with kessig / having titan is close to game over.
That would be awsome if you could take over a primer You can use some of my descriptions if you want from Dies to Removal.
Was planning on it, and will probably look for your input during the writing process
Btw did you have time / card to test non-Genesis Wave version I was running? As you can see I currently am running 2 Chord of Calling md, I think they do similar things like Tooth And Nail (basicly chording for hoof is still gg most of the time, however you have option for other creatures and rebuy it later with witness). You still have option of going big for Craterhoof or Elesh Norn (11 or 10 mana), however you can tap creatures such as selkie, witness etc to help it out.
I was going to run your version at a GPT yesterday. Alas, I developed strep throat and didn't play
What do you guys think about M15 cards? I am looking mainly at Nissa, Worldwaker to suplement Garruk Wildspeaker, however we dont play that many lands to use 2nd ability to its full potential, however +1 is quite good - another usage of fetchlands that doesnt have other targets (+ wrath protection as you can crack them in response if needed).
I'm not sure how well it would fit into a Genesis Wave version of the deck, but I could see it in the mid range version. Other than Nissa, I don't see much in M15
Btw did anyone test out Garruk, Primal Hunter? Sometimes I run out of gas (It is really hard thou with all this card advantage), so using 2nd ability after pumping stuff with kessig / having titan is close to game over.
I've run him as of one of in the SB for matchups like Jund and control. He hasn't made an appearance in my board in a while, since there's been a bit of a local meta shift away from those decks, but I found him to be worthwhile
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While I'm thinking about it, what you everyone like to see in the Primer? Here is my initial sketch of it
1) Brief history, including links to articles, videos, etc.
2) Core cards, regardless of version
3) Genesis Wave version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
4) Primal Command version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
5) What version should I play?
6) General play notes
7) Acknowledgements
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While I'm thinking about it, what you everyone like to see in the Primer? Here is my initial sketch of it
1) Brief history, including links to articles, videos, etc.
2) Core cards, regardless of version
3) Genesis Wave version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
4) Primal Command version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
5) What version should I play?
6) General play notes
7) Acknowledgements
Yup, everything as you wrote. I will try to get some good art from one guy at Dies To Removal for top of a page for Primal Command version as the one currently is quite good for Genesis Wave.
Yeh Garruk, Primal Hunter would be mainly used vs Jund or UWR Variants, however dont know if needed.
Care to write now how you sb in different matchups? Basicly it is one of the most important parts while building good sb and good sb plan.
Gnuhouse & Pedros - been reading here a while!! Got the cards to make both versions, think at the minute i'm going to run the genesis wave version. I've found the grindy version to be a bit clunky, and at times, just fail to get out of the blocks. A turn 2 witness into t3 resto is good n all, but only if there's revelant targets, which often there isn't. Ive found the GW to just "do nothing" sometimes, and so I've gone to genesis wave for the option of "winning quick" instead. I'll let you know how i get on!
I think it'd be handy to see how different matchups fair... as an example, game 1 is a nightmare against combo for Pedro's version, but Genesis wave is much better. Game 2 though, it kinda switches around. THose sort of things would be good to see in the primers
What does GW stands for when you talk about midrange version? I cant decipher this shortcut
Thanks for your answer, as I said somewhere before - deck gets polished after playing with it, not just theorycrafting. After playing with either version you will get your own ideas about matchups, card choices, sequencing and stuff, and then sharing those experiences and discussing with a community makes whole deck better. For only 1 person it is close to impossible to get everything correct as everyone has limited amount of time to play etc. Work, family, school are more important than Magic for most of us, however exchanging views is a key to success.
Funny fact is that I find Genesis Wave version bit clunky myself (;D) as a curve is little bit higher. Test and share.
You are right that you can race combo with GW version as sometimes you can hit with genesis wave to rebuy it and cast on the same turn, however I found it much worse vs any kind of interaction.
Restoration Angel is needed in midrange version as I found wave list having problems with flyers. Plus it is another way to get witness trigger to get back primal command to get another bounce when I run out of witnesses.
In case anyone is still tinkering with this deck, Nissa Worldwaker is actually insane.
Edit: and Genesis Hydra is pretty good too.
Care to elaborate?
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Pedros - thanks for the reply. Sorry, I was referring to your version as GW, and genesis wave as the mono-green version (though I know it can splash colours, your version is definitely white).
I actually wanted to play the midrange version more, as it suites my playstyle and I like having options. I just found the options not to be so strong. I often had very little to do on turns 2-3 against combo strategies, and just couldn't apply enough pressure. It reminds me a lot of the kiki-pod deck, that has grindy options, and also has combo wins - it also ramps and has a bit of a toolbox. However, kikipod can just go "boo i win" but this particular deck really requires ramp up to EIGHT mana for primal / witness to be able to lock out a combo deck before they kill us. There's no real interaction in Game 1 against those guys, which almost always results in a loss. As a note, I must say that I have been testing at home, and I tend to have more combo decks than fair decks, so my testing is slightly skewed at the minute.
The genesis wave version can race a combo with the right hands, but it does seem reliant on a lot of pieces and a dice roll. It feels more likely to beat a combo deck, but not necessary in it's favour (maybe 40/60 to the bad).
I will test and come up with a few suggestions.
First of all - has anyone considered (specifically in genesis wave) adding +1 simic growth chamber, +1 tolaria west, +1 Summoner's pact to the main? I actually play amulet combo and titan-scapeshift, and landing titan's feels amazing. In this deck though, Nykthos may already be on the board, and kessig is only relevant if your board doesn't get wiped. At that point, your main concern is a wrath effect, and there's no utility to stop that being an issue. If your board doesn't get wiped, isn't titan good anyway? Tolaria west interaction gives you an out, could replace 2 lands you already have in the deck, and summoner's pact replaces a wave potentially. Having just read it out loud though, I know there's an issue of requiring double-blue. Utopia sprawl/birds/abundant growth to help out - perhaps U becomes the splash colour? Sorry doesn't seem like I've thought this through!!
Secondly - chord of calling certainly seems good in the midrange version Pedros. When i was looking at your list, it did strike me that there's a nice ramp here, and potentially a birthing pod could work out? I know you won't want the deck to turn into merila, and neither do I... but finks into resto angel is a strong play. Strangleroot Geist could start the chain. Not sure what comes in at 5 (maybe Reveillark) but Sun Titan seems to do the trick at 6 (along with primetime)?? You can then run a lot more 1-ofs main/side, as you'd have some primal commands, some chords and potentially a couple of PODs? I dont know if there's enough space for that many non-creature spells, but something to consider??
Ah ok now I understood what you meen - GW as Green White :P. Precisely it is Naya as I have small red splash for kessig ;P
You are right about combo matchup - however only hard combo such as storm, eggs, twin (if you dont draw path to exile). Other slower combo such as pod or scapeshift are fine.
One thing about Birthing Pod is the fact that you would need to run more persist / undying cards to have something on the board. Plus if you noticed I dont run any 2 drops. If going a pod way, I would just play pod with either kiki or melira or archangel combo. If you however think it might work sketch the list - we might try to make it happen, I curently doesnt see it ;/
I however like reveilark - gets back witness, selkie, courser, spellskite, ooze, eidolon or mana dorks, easy to cast and additional card advantage. Might be better than garruk primal hunter vs BGx / UWR ?
As for titan targets - problem is we are running only ~20 lands (a lot of people were surprised than when I lay down my deck it only had that much lands), we need ~14 forest for utopia sprawls and arbor elves (fetches counts so we are fine here). Another thing I noticed is the fact that I have a lot of unkeepable hands with too many uncolored lands. I think 5 is maximum amount, I would probably want to go to up to 21 lands with another untapped green source - either basic forest or horizon canopy.
Currently for tutor targers I fetch in this order: nykthos, kessig, horizon canopy, fetchlands.Remember that you can find fetchlands and crack them at upkeep to filter your deck more. That works especially well with courser of kruphix as you can see top card of your library - you can then reset it with a fetchland if you need to make a land drop with courser or if you dont want sth like a mana dork for example.
About not having value from witness on turn 1 or 2 - I found that with right amount of fetchlands - I think 6 is a perfect number currently - you still get value from witness. Also I think getting back that land is extremely important, as we are really low on lands and in case our mana dorks die we need this 3rd mana source to do something.
Still waiting for the way you sb - I am extremely interested in it, as while building sb you need to know how many slots you have. I remember in Genesis Wave version it was quite easy as I boarded out 3 BTE(kept 1 for potential of uber draws - if you see my history I had 1 BTE in my midrange version for quite a long time), Craterhoof and some number of mana dorks in grindier matchups for example.
I like your list, I wish I could run some fetchs in here but it's just too expensive right now. Maybe if verdants keep dropping a little more I'll go and grab them. What's your Twin plan? Aside from the obvious Pathing
Courser is a total house in this deck because what we need is draw power. Elvish visonary is in there for the same reason, he's only one devotion but he's a two drop you can put down right behind a Burning-Tree. I never feel like tapping three for a selkie, it's too much mana for a draw creature that'll probably get countered or bolted.
My only real bad match ups are Twin unfortunately because twin is disgusting. The amount of counter/draw spells they have only to combo out on turn 4 always gives me a problem. UWR on the other hand is 60/40 pre and post side board. Thrun does massive work.
Courser is a total house in this deck because what we need is draw power. Elvish visonary is in there for the same reason, he's only one devotion but he's a two drop you can put down right behind a Burning-Tree. I never feel like tapping three for a selkie, it's too much mana for a draw creature that'll probably get countered or bolted.
My only real bad match ups are Twin unfortunately because twin is disgusting. The amount of counter/draw spells they have only to combo out on turn 4 always gives me a problem. UWR on the other hand is 60/40 pre and post side board. Thrun does massive work.
Selkie vs Visionary - In function, they do the same thing; cantrip. The 2 difference in devotion is massive if you're trying to get to 4+ devotion as quickly as possible (since 4 is where you start to net mana from Nykthos), and going BTE into Visionary is fairly inefficient (2 cards for 3 devotion and one card vs 1 card for 3 devotion and one card)
Vexing Shusher is a good card in theory. However, as Homer Simpson so correctly stated, so is communism (EDIT - I think I'll use that line in the primer). Yes, you get a 2/2 beater with 2 devotion that can help protect your Genesis Wave/Primal Command/random creature, but against the decks that you want to use Shusher against, they typically run cards like Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Electrolyze, Izzet Charm, Path to Exile, etc. Think that Shusher is sticking once it hits the table? I'd much rather play Boseiju in the board than Shusher.
For Twin, I like Plow Under/Primal Command. Getting to 5 mana shouldn't be difficult by turn 3 (and, theoretically it can be done on turn 2) and it's something they have to deal with. If they don't counter then you've Time Walked them (or double Time Walked). If they do counter, you might be able to sneak a spell in on the next turn (or ideally hit them again with a Plow Under/Primal Command)
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Anyways, this is what I'm running ATM
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Stranglerot Geist
4 Wistful Selkie
3 Eternal Witness
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Primeval Titan
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Genesis Wave
3 Primal Command
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Summoner's Pact
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
13 Forest
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Primal Command
3 Plow Under
2 Creeping Corrosion
3 Damping Matrix
1 Spellskite
1 Dismember
3 Flex Spots
The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
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Defense grid seems good. Have you considered cavern of souls For a similar reason to boseiju. The mb seems very similar to what I'm thinking (i recently brought the deck in paper off another player but was very similar to your original list which wizards featured).
My meta is mainly jund, affinity and pod so thats what id sb for. Do you think predator ooze might be a good mb choice taking this into account?
I have tried Predator Ooze in the main to mixed results. There were some match ups that it was great in, but overall it was unimpressive. If you're playing Wave, you want stuff that has an immediate impact on the board, which Ooze doesn't.
Against Pod, I like using Scavenging Ooze. Affinity, you can race them with a Wave, but you also have Creeping Corrosion. Jund, I like more Primal Command and Plow Under. I've also had Garruk, Primal Hunter in there too, since Jund has a real hard time with it (as does control at times)
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A cute card vs affinity is fracturing gust. It's not very hard for us to cast and if you cast it turn 3 or 4 you basically win. It's also hilarious vs boggles. Also vs both pod and affinity play ancient grudge. But yea scavenging ooze is the way to go vs both jund and pod.
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Path to Exile
4 Eternal Witness
3 Wistful Selkie
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Restoration Angel
1 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Primal Command
2 Chord of Calling
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
5 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
2 Summoning Trap
2 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Plow Under
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Played ~160 matches with total ~73% win.
4-3 a PTQ, loosing to boogles (0-2, couldnt find craterhoof or chord for him, 3 titans are not enought), affinity (1-2, won game 1 and lost game 2&3 after not finding any relevant sb cards within 10 tourns each - casted 5 path to exile for example with all resto/witness shenanigans) and BW Pack Rats (1-2, lost game 3 after seize your path go of with pack rats).
This was my only tournament I didnt cash out. Cash out every other modern tournament I attended (that includes 1 or 2 Daily events and any amount of Thurdsday or Friday Tournaments. My local store is quite competetive one with a pro tour competitor and ptqs grinders).
With my setup I have:
Very favorable matchups >85: BGx Rock, Burn, Scapeshift, UWR non Kiki Control, UR Delver tempo, Melira Pod, Zoo and not enought test games but still here: Living End , RG Tron, B Discard
Good ~65-75: Kiki Pod, UWR Kiki Control, BW Pack Rats, not enought games but still here: U Tron
Close matchups ~50%: Affinity, Hatebears, Merfolk
Really bad: Infect, Storm, Eggs, Boogles, Eternal Control, Twin (UR, Turbo, Tarmo), and not enought test games: Time Vault, Mono G Agro.
Edit:
Made deck more readable.
I'm also curious what the veteran pilots of this deck (as much as a veteran as one can be considering how new the deck is) think of Early Harvest or Magus of the Candelabra in this deck.
Also, I wish the OP did a better job of going over all the many variants along with the typical and ideal lines of play. I realize many of the variants have only popped up recently, but the primer seems weak compared to most of the others I have read.
I think Primer was made by a person who currently doesnt even play with this deck, so I dont really think there is anything to do.
Problem with Genesis Wave / Tooth and Nail is the fact that it is completely dead most of the time. Having 9 mana is not easy to achieve when opponent is interracting with you, and if he isnt Primal Command lock is probably better at that point. Dont get me wrong, I just think going all in as a pure combo deck is wrong option, thats why I play more grindy green midrange with lots of card advantage and with ups I win option of kessig wolf run or primal command lock.
Btw what do you guys thinks about Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. Is it better or worse than Plow Under vs matchups where it is relevant, ec. Tron, Scapeshift, Control etc.
There was a Summoner's Pact/Tooth and Nail version a few months back that went X-0 day 1 at a European GP (I think the one that TarmTwin won). I think Pedros' write up on Dies to Removal has a link to it.
As for the Primer, I've asked to take it over so I'll probably take some time to write it up again. I'll probably split it into two, one for a Genesis Wave dependent version (like I run), and one for a non-Genesis Wave dependent version (like Pedros runs).
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That would be awsome if you could take over a primer You can use some of my descriptions if you want from Dies to Removal.
Btw did you have time / card to test non-Genesis Wave version I was running? As you can see I currently am running 2 Chord of Calling md, I think they do similar things like Tooth And Nail (basicly chording for hoof is still gg most of the time, however you have option for other creatures and rebuy it later with witness). You still have option of going big for Craterhoof or Elesh Norn (11 or 10 mana), however you can tap creatures such as selkie, witness etc to help it out.
What do you guys think about M15 cards? I am looking mainly at Nissa, Worldwaker to suplement Garruk Wildspeaker, however we dont play that many lands to use 2nd ability to its full potential, however +1 is quite good - another usage of fetchlands that doesnt have other targets (+ wrath protection as you can crack them in response if needed).
Btw did anyone test out Garruk, Primal Hunter? Sometimes I run out of gas (It is really hard thou with all this card advantage), so using 2nd ability after pumping stuff with kessig / having titan is close to game over.
Was planning on it, and will probably look for your input during the writing process
I was going to run your version at a GPT yesterday. Alas, I developed strep throat and didn't play
I'm not sure how well it would fit into a Genesis Wave version of the deck, but I could see it in the mid range version. Other than Nissa, I don't see much in M15
I've run him as of one of in the SB for matchups like Jund and control. He hasn't made an appearance in my board in a while, since there's been a bit of a local meta shift away from those decks, but I found him to be worthwhile
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1) Brief history, including links to articles, videos, etc.
2) Core cards, regardless of version
3) Genesis Wave version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
4) Primal Command version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
5) What version should I play?
6) General play notes
7) Acknowledgements
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Yup, everything as you wrote. I will try to get some good art from one guy at Dies To Removal for top of a page for Primal Command version as the one currently is quite good for Genesis Wave.
Yeh Garruk, Primal Hunter would be mainly used vs Jund or UWR Variants, however dont know if needed.
Care to write now how you sb in different matchups? Basicly it is one of the most important parts while building good sb and good sb plan.
What does GW stands for when you talk about midrange version? I cant decipher this shortcut
Thanks for your answer, as I said somewhere before - deck gets polished after playing with it, not just theorycrafting. After playing with either version you will get your own ideas about matchups, card choices, sequencing and stuff, and then sharing those experiences and discussing with a community makes whole deck better. For only 1 person it is close to impossible to get everything correct as everyone has limited amount of time to play etc. Work, family, school are more important than Magic for most of us, however exchanging views is a key to success.
Funny fact is that I find Genesis Wave version bit clunky myself (;D) as a curve is little bit higher. Test and share.
You are right that you can race combo with GW version as sometimes you can hit with genesis wave to rebuy it and cast on the same turn, however I found it much worse vs any kind of interaction.
Restoration Angel is needed in midrange version as I found wave list having problems with flyers. Plus it is another way to get witness trigger to get back primal command to get another bounce when I run out of witnesses.
Edit: and Genesis Hydra is pretty good too.
Care to elaborate?
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Ah ok now I understood what you meen - GW as Green White :P. Precisely it is Naya as I have small red splash for kessig ;P
You are right about combo matchup - however only hard combo such as storm, eggs, twin (if you dont draw path to exile). Other slower combo such as pod or scapeshift are fine.
One thing about Birthing Pod is the fact that you would need to run more persist / undying cards to have something on the board. Plus if you noticed I dont run any 2 drops. If going a pod way, I would just play pod with either kiki or melira or archangel combo. If you however think it might work sketch the list - we might try to make it happen, I curently doesnt see it ;/
I however like reveilark - gets back witness, selkie, courser, spellskite, ooze, eidolon or mana dorks, easy to cast and additional card advantage. Might be better than garruk primal hunter vs BGx / UWR ?
As for titan targets - problem is we are running only ~20 lands (a lot of people were surprised than when I lay down my deck it only had that much lands), we need ~14 forest for utopia sprawls and arbor elves (fetches counts so we are fine here). Another thing I noticed is the fact that I have a lot of unkeepable hands with too many uncolored lands. I think 5 is maximum amount, I would probably want to go to up to 21 lands with another untapped green source - either basic forest or horizon canopy.
Currently for tutor targers I fetch in this order: nykthos, kessig, horizon canopy, fetchlands.Remember that you can find fetchlands and crack them at upkeep to filter your deck more. That works especially well with courser of kruphix as you can see top card of your library - you can then reset it with a fetchland if you need to make a land drop with courser or if you dont want sth like a mana dork for example.
About not having value from witness on turn 1 or 2 - I found that with right amount of fetchlands - I think 6 is a perfect number currently - you still get value from witness. Also I think getting back that land is extremely important, as we are really low on lands and in case our mana dorks die we need this 3rd mana source to do something.
Still waiting for the way you sb - I am extremely interested in it, as while building sb you need to know how many slots you have. I remember in Genesis Wave version it was quite easy as I boarded out 3 BTE(kept 1 for potential of uber draws - if you see my history I had 1 BTE in my midrange version for quite a long time), Craterhoof and some number of mana dorks in grindier matchups for example.
I like your list, I wish I could run some fetchs in here but it's just too expensive right now. Maybe if verdants keep dropping a little more I'll go and grab them. What's your Twin plan? Aside from the obvious Pathing
4 Burning Tree
4 Strangleroot Giest
3 Courser Of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Elvish Visonary
2 Primeval Titan
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Genesis Wave
4 Primal Command
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
10 Forest
3 Stomping Ground
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Vexing Shusher
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Titan
2 Combust
2 Seal of Primordium
Courser is a total house in this deck because what we need is draw power. Elvish visonary is in there for the same reason, he's only one devotion but he's a two drop you can put down right behind a Burning-Tree. I never feel like tapping three for a selkie, it's too much mana for a draw creature that'll probably get countered or bolted.
My only real bad match ups are Twin unfortunately because twin is disgusting. The amount of counter/draw spells they have only to combo out on turn 4 always gives me a problem. UWR on the other hand is 60/40 pre and post side board. Thrun does massive work.
Selkie vs Visionary - In function, they do the same thing; cantrip. The 2 difference in devotion is massive if you're trying to get to 4+ devotion as quickly as possible (since 4 is where you start to net mana from Nykthos), and going BTE into Visionary is fairly inefficient (2 cards for 3 devotion and one card vs 1 card for 3 devotion and one card)
Vexing Shusher is a good card in theory. However, as Homer Simpson so correctly stated, so is communism (EDIT - I think I'll use that line in the primer). Yes, you get a 2/2 beater with 2 devotion that can help protect your Genesis Wave/Primal Command/random creature, but against the decks that you want to use Shusher against, they typically run cards like Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Electrolyze, Izzet Charm, Path to Exile, etc. Think that Shusher is sticking once it hits the table? I'd much rather play Boseiju in the board than Shusher.
For Twin, I like Plow Under/Primal Command. Getting to 5 mana shouldn't be difficult by turn 3 (and, theoretically it can be done on turn 2) and it's something they have to deal with. If they don't counter then you've Time Walked them (or double Time Walked). If they do counter, you might be able to sneak a spell in on the next turn (or ideally hit them again with a Plow Under/Primal Command)
Check out my blog and help me improve my game
Currently playing:
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