That certainly does look like a fun toy to play with.
I went to a little Modern night the other day. Only a few people showed up, so I played a couple rounds and that was it. I was hoping to avoid a bunch of aggro at this shop, and my sideboard was in some serious disarray. I couldn't find my Stony Silences as I scrambled to assemble my list in paper, and I still don't have a set of Ghostly Prisons (I need to fix that ASAP). First match, what would you guess, I was up against Affinity. Game 1 my opponent didn't go off super fast, but neither did I and he still easily overtook me. Game 2 I landed a well timed op deck Firespout I brought in from the board, turned the tables and Entwined a Tooth and Nail for Emrakul/Xenagod. Game 3 was pretty much an Affinity god draw. I lost 1-2 on the round. The other match was Fish and Soul Sisters. Fish probably would have ripped me up with the sideboard I brought as well, but I went up against Soul Sisters, which essentially let's you goldfish your hands until you win. First game I basically just played a one sided match until I assembled the combo kill. Game 2 he got an early Serra Ascendant down and I couldn't handle the flier in time before amassing my resources. Game 3 he picked away at me for a few of turns until I got a 2 Predator Oozes in play. then he got a 6/6 Ascendant out to threaten the board. I screwed up my mana and wasn't able to hit my line of play, but was lucky enough to survive just another turn where I was able to Firespout, External Witness targeting Firespout, then Firespout again. I had Emrakul in hand for a while now, and had delayed him enough to build up for a hardcast a couple turns later. Won that round 2-1.
Talking a bit about Modern I got the impression that even when there's a good turnout, that the shop sounds like a heavy Aggro meta. If I play there again I'll build accordingly. Definitely need to pick up some cards to get my preferred sideboard tech as well though. I feel like I could have done so much better in the Affinity match if I just had my Stony Silences.
Personally I don't like Wistful Selkie all that much. I prefer resiliency over the cantrips myself. So I'd say pluck the Selkies in favor of either Predator Oozes, more Kitchen Finks, or some combination of the two. Maybe even Strangleroot Geists. If you like the card draw it's still a viable option though I guess. I'm not a huge fan of Leatherback Baloth over Predator Ooze either, but he's a reasonable sized body that can't be bolted away at least I guess. Really just a matter of opinion, I don't see any fatal flaws in the list as you seem to have all the cornerstones in place otherwise. I ran two Craterhoof Behemoths when playing Genesis Wave/Craterhoof just in hopes of increasing my odds of hitting on a G-Wave for x=8+. Not sure that's really necessary, but might be worth some consideration.
Personally I don't like Wistful Selkie all that much. I prefer resiliency over the cantrips myself. So I'd say pluck the Selkies in favor of either Predator Oozes, more Kitchen Finks, or some combination of the two. Maybe even Strangleroot Geists. If you like the card draw it's still a viable option though I guess. I'm not a huge fan of Leatherback Baloth over Predator Ooze either, but he's a reasonable sized body that can't be bolted away at least I guess. Really just a matter of opinion, I don't see any fatal flaws in the list as you seem to have all the cornerstones in place otherwise. I ran two Craterhoof Behemoths when playing Genesis Wave/Craterhoof just in hopes of increasing my odds of hitting on a G-Wave for x=8+. Not sure that's really necessary, but might be worth some consideration.
Thanks man. I ended up taking out two selkies for two finks and then leaving the rest as is. I can say that tonight wasn't a very good shoing by strong decks. I went 2-1 but the two wins barely count as one of the decks was simply a modified Jace vs Vraska Jace deck and the other was a standard mono-red agro deck.
Match 1 - vs Kiln Fiend agro
Game 1 I stayed just ahead of him and actually won with a hard caster craterhoof behemoth on turn 4. I boarded in a dismember and two firespouts. Didn't see either game 2 and lost on turn 3 to a double striking pro green 11/3 kiln fiend. Game three he also had a god hand and did the same on turn 3.
The other two matches aren't nearly as interesting, as if the first one was. Match 2 I actually almost lost a game because I drew three nykthos' in a row on turns 2-4 but I managed to stabilize because he also didn't draw any lands that game. The other game ended in me swinging with baloths for lethal by around turn 6. The third match first game was actually the best game I've ever had with the deck. On turn 4 I managed to play every card in my deck, drop a 28/28 craterhoof from my hand and win. Not sure I've ever had more fun playing a deck. The second game was a bit more drawn out as he managed to get some of his controlley cards. I actually won that game with a 11/1 inkmoth nexus.
All in all I'd say that I'm not too sure the baloths are a good idea. However I'm not really sure what I'd put there in place of them. I don't really think I need the blocking power, as I have finks, but then again I haven't really played vs a real modern agro deck so I could be mistaken. Hopefully next month, since my lgs only does modern once a month, I can get a chance to play vs some other decks that are at a higher powerlevel since tonight, outside of the first match, wasn't really all that fulfilling.
Edit: geist! Geist is the card I need. Haste + blocking ability. I'll swap them in for baloths.
Geists are a solid card. I've run 4x Strangleroot Geist and 4x Burning-Tree Emissary in the majority of the lists I've played. When I start cutting cards and rearranging my list to try something new, BTE usually comes out before Geist. They put in work early game and tend to stick around the battlefield for a while, helping to put you in range of a potential win via Garruk's ultimate as well as getting out a quick and resilient 2x devotion to green. BTE is a card you kind of want to sit on in your hand until his devotion becomes relevant, Geists can actually hit the board and do some work.
noone is playing courser in here? seems like an auto include. +2 devotion, can play lands off the top, gain life, big butt
Not "sticky" enough to me. I'd rather play Predator Ooze in that slot. Courser of Kruphix certainly does show up in lists though. Eternal Witness and Predator Ooze are my 3 drops of choice though. I feel like both cards do so much more.
noone is playing courser in here? seems like an auto include. +2 devotion, can play lands off the top, gain life, big butt
Not "sticky" enough to me. I'd rather play Predator Ooze in that slot. Courser of Kruphix certainly does show up in lists though. Eternal Witness and Predator Ooze are my 3 drops of choice though. I feel like both cards do so much more.
So I think the reason the Courser of Kruphix doesn't really see play in this deck is because it doesn't actually give us much. This deck plays a lot more like a combo deck, and in fact wins like a combo deck. Something like Courser is great for a midrange deck that is trying to power out threats and stay ahead of the curve.
My version of the deck, and I'd say most of the versions played here, seem like they are trying to do that however they are actually just trying to hit a critical mass on the board to combo through multiple genesis waves into a massive attack that is game ending. I have won before through the midrange game plan, usually when up against a control deck, but the most satisfying and successful games I've had all end on turns 3 to 5 with more than half of my deck on the field. In a situation like that having one extra land, or digging one card deeper, isn't going to change the outcome of the game.
noone is playing courser in here? seems like an auto include. +2 devotion, can play lands off the top, gain life, big butt
Not "sticky" enough to me. I'd rather play Predator Ooze in that slot. Courser of Kruphix certainly does show up in lists though. Eternal Witness and Predator Ooze are my 3 drops of choice though. I feel like both cards do so much more.
So I think the reason the Courser of Kruphix doesn't really see play in this deck is because it doesn't actually give us much. This deck plays a lot more like a combo deck, and in fact wins like a combo deck. Something like Courser is great for a midrange deck that is trying to power out threats and stay ahead of the curve.
My version of the deck, and I'd say most of the versions played here, seem like they are trying to do that however they are actually just trying to hit a critical mass on the board to combo through multiple genesis waves into a massive attack that is game ending. I have won before through the midrange game plan, usually when up against a control deck, but the most satisfying and successful games I've had all end on turns 3 to 5 with more than half of my deck on the field. In a situation like that having one extra land, or digging one card deeper, isn't going to change the outcome of the game.
That's wording it pretty well I think. That is why Eternal Witness is a staple 4x in pretty much every single list. It puts in work recovering lost spells from the graveyard, and acts as a combo piece when things go off allowing you to chain up spells. Predator Ooze is a troublesome 3 drop, that delays your opponent, and offers maximum devotion value for big Nytkthos mana. An extra land drop and GG devotion could be ok I think if he had some sort of built in protection. Unfortunately I don't feel like our Courser friend here is sticking around long enough the majority of the time to get any real extended value out of him. Nyxwave is pretty well known now, we're not really about to surprise many people anymore. So I'm not convinced that giving up information as to when we might be able to go off is smart either. They know what they're watching for now, and knowing when you've got all your pieces assembled could hurt you. I feel like Courser's +1 life is such a trap as well, it doesn't really offer us anything. I want something that sticks around. If I had room for another 3 drop I'd run Kitchen Finks. Even the cantrip from Wistful Selkie didn't do it for me. Although she does seem like she could be okay in a linear combo-centric deck that looks to go off super fast. I played like that for a while when the field of opponents still wasn't as familiar with the archetype. I feel like that ship has sailed though. It's too easy to disrupt and people know how to play against it now. Right now you're best off digging your feet in and fighting it out early while building up as much devotion as you can hold onto, and waiting for a good window in my opinion
Bogels:
+2 fracturing gust +1 dismember -2 harmonize -1 Satyr Wayfinder. Same sort of deal but I'd rather have a wayfinder to block than another harmonize. Dismember might be a bit of a waste but if you happen to start with it, casting it in response to a daybreak coronet could just win you the game.
Affinity:
+1 Fracturing Gust +2 Firespout -2 harmonize -1 Satyr Wayfinder. Same reasoning as bogle. I don't know if fracturing gust will actually come out soon enough to be useful but I think having one in the mainboard is good.
RWU Control:
This is a total guess as I haven't played it before but I'd say: +2 Magus of the Moon +2 Defense Grid +1 Thrun, the Last Troll -4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I really don't like the idea of using the Magus but if you're going to then I'd say change up your strategy entirely. I personally really like mistcutter hydra for control matchups. A turn 3 6/6 pro blue uncounterable beater is a huge threat.
There are a bunch of others I could talk about but I'd say just do what feels right. Personally I'm a fan of trading speed for protection when you're looking for things to pull out. And once again, I haven't actually used him so I don't know, but Magus of the Moon seems about as counterproductive to this deck's gameplan as possible. Hope this helps.
Thanks chronocidist, I´m testing Magus of the Moon, for the mathcup with Tron to avoid the Oblivion Stones, but it seems that Mistcutter Hydra can also be a good option but not as versatile as Magus, I´ll test it.
I'm working on this deck, I saw I could get a bayou or... A modern deck, so I decided to pursue this. The lists relying on aggressive two and three drops ran clunky for me, but I guess I'm treating this as primarily a combo deck. Currently, my list resembles Gavin Verhey's from December, but I don't run the full set of Titans, and I cut Regal Force for a second Craterhoof and a fourth Harmonize. I may do a 3/1 split with Joraga and Fertile Ground to hedge against removal.
Also, I move that the deck be renamed Low Tide. It's in a way the analogue for High Tide in legacy, and I want to see more awesome deck names in modern.
this deck is amazing. i've been playing elves with nykthos for a while but this it's on a whole other level.
the amount of times that i've played a turn 2 garruk is ridiculous.
i'm testing on cockatrice at the moment, last game i've played i casted a genesis wave for 20, didn't find a carterhoof, but hey no worries, cos out of it i got another hykthos, a couple of forests and a eternal witness. i then proceeded to cast a new wave for 28 (just tapping 2 lands: nykthos and a forest with utopia).
never had so much fun playing a deck. a big thank you to all of the people who contributed in this thread.
this is the list I've been testing:
i preferred the satyr to burning-tree emissary, as i find it more useful to untap nykthos or a forest with utopia.
I'd like to have the opinion of someone with more experience with this deck on a couple of things:
i might put thrun in the side for the control match up, and substitute him with a xenagos, lord of revels.
also thinking on swapping the 2 troll ascetic with 2 predator ooze.
sometimes i felt harmonize would have been useful, but i really would;t know what to cut for it
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I cut Primal Command for it. I test against Affinity and Hatebears, mainly, and Command felt too slow. Even in the get grindy games is rather have straight draw. Not to mention a lot of my side board options aren't Command targets. I feel like I'm in the minority; why is Command so beloved?
You only have 14 power attacking so you'd have to hope they have less than 5 defense to block.
A three turn win you can pull off with wave ends looking similar except that it'll involve attacking with massively huge craterhoofs instead of just scraping by with infect. The one time I've found infect useful is with inkmoth nexus. Fetching that and a wolf run with a prime time has one me more than a few games. Also I think that garruk's -4 is almost as good as triumph of the hordes so it doesn't seem like it adds enough to warrant removing things.
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I went to a little Modern night the other day. Only a few people showed up, so I played a couple rounds and that was it. I was hoping to avoid a bunch of aggro at this shop, and my sideboard was in some serious disarray. I couldn't find my Stony Silences as I scrambled to assemble my list in paper, and I still don't have a set of Ghostly Prisons (I need to fix that ASAP). First match, what would you guess, I was up against Affinity. Game 1 my opponent didn't go off super fast, but neither did I and he still easily overtook me. Game 2 I landed a well timed op deck Firespout I brought in from the board, turned the tables and Entwined a Tooth and Nail for Emrakul/Xenagod. Game 3 was pretty much an Affinity god draw. I lost 1-2 on the round. The other match was Fish and Soul Sisters. Fish probably would have ripped me up with the sideboard I brought as well, but I went up against Soul Sisters, which essentially let's you goldfish your hands until you win. First game I basically just played a one sided match until I assembled the combo kill. Game 2 he got an early Serra Ascendant down and I couldn't handle the flier in time before amassing my resources. Game 3 he picked away at me for a few of turns until I got a 2 Predator Oozes in play. then he got a 6/6 Ascendant out to threaten the board. I screwed up my mana and wasn't able to hit my line of play, but was lucky enough to survive just another turn where I was able to Firespout, External Witness targeting Firespout, then Firespout again. I had Emrakul in hand for a while now, and had delayed him enough to build up for a hardcast a couple turns later. Won that round 2-1.
Talking a bit about Modern I got the impression that even when there's a good turnout, that the shop sounds like a heavy Aggro meta. If I play there again I'll build accordingly. Definitely need to pick up some cards to get my preferred sideboard tech as well though. I feel like I could have done so much better in the Affinity match if I just had my Stony Silences.
4x burning-tree emissary
1x craterhoof behemoth
4x eternal witness
1x fertile ground
13x forest
4x garruk wildspeaker
4x genesis wave
1x inkmoth nexus
1x kessig wolf run
2x kitchen finks
3x leatherback baloth
4x nykthos, shrine to nyx
2x primal command
3x primeval titan
2x stomping ground
4x utopia sprawl
3x wistful selkie
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x acidic slime
1x creeping corrosion
1x dismember
2x firespout
1x krosan grip
3x mistcutter hydra
2x seal of primordium
1x vexing shusher
Any last minute suggestions?
I'll be updating this post tomorrow with how I did.
Thanks man. I ended up taking out two selkies for two finks and then leaving the rest as is. I can say that tonight wasn't a very good shoing by strong decks. I went 2-1 but the two wins barely count as one of the decks was simply a modified Jace vs Vraska Jace deck and the other was a standard mono-red agro deck.
Match 1 - vs Kiln Fiend agro
Game 1 I stayed just ahead of him and actually won with a hard caster craterhoof behemoth on turn 4. I boarded in a dismember and two firespouts. Didn't see either game 2 and lost on turn 3 to a double striking pro green 11/3 kiln fiend. Game three he also had a god hand and did the same on turn 3.
The other two matches aren't nearly as interesting, as if the first one was. Match 2 I actually almost lost a game because I drew three nykthos' in a row on turns 2-4 but I managed to stabilize because he also didn't draw any lands that game. The other game ended in me swinging with baloths for lethal by around turn 6. The third match first game was actually the best game I've ever had with the deck. On turn 4 I managed to play every card in my deck, drop a 28/28 craterhoof from my hand and win. Not sure I've ever had more fun playing a deck. The second game was a bit more drawn out as he managed to get some of his controlley cards. I actually won that game with a 11/1 inkmoth nexus.
All in all I'd say that I'm not too sure the baloths are a good idea. However I'm not really sure what I'd put there in place of them. I don't really think I need the blocking power, as I have finks, but then again I haven't really played vs a real modern agro deck so I could be mistaken. Hopefully next month, since my lgs only does modern once a month, I can get a chance to play vs some other decks that are at a higher powerlevel since tonight, outside of the first match, wasn't really all that fulfilling.
Edit: geist! Geist is the card I need. Haste + blocking ability. I'll swap them in for baloths.
Not "sticky" enough to me. I'd rather play Predator Ooze in that slot. Courser of Kruphix certainly does show up in lists though. Eternal Witness and Predator Ooze are my 3 drops of choice though. I feel like both cards do so much more.
at least the rest of the deck is cheap
So I think the reason the Courser of Kruphix doesn't really see play in this deck is because it doesn't actually give us much. This deck plays a lot more like a combo deck, and in fact wins like a combo deck. Something like Courser is great for a midrange deck that is trying to power out threats and stay ahead of the curve.
My version of the deck, and I'd say most of the versions played here, seem like they are trying to do that however they are actually just trying to hit a critical mass on the board to combo through multiple genesis waves into a massive attack that is game ending. I have won before through the midrange game plan, usually when up against a control deck, but the most satisfying and successful games I've had all end on turns 3 to 5 with more than half of my deck on the field. In a situation like that having one extra land, or digging one card deeper, isn't going to change the outcome of the game.
That's wording it pretty well I think. That is why Eternal Witness is a staple 4x in pretty much every single list. It puts in work recovering lost spells from the graveyard, and acts as a combo piece when things go off allowing you to chain up spells. Predator Ooze is a troublesome 3 drop, that delays your opponent, and offers maximum devotion value for big Nytkthos mana. An extra land drop and GG devotion could be ok I think if he had some sort of built in protection. Unfortunately I don't feel like our Courser friend here is sticking around long enough the majority of the time to get any real extended value out of him. Nyxwave is pretty well known now, we're not really about to surprise many people anymore. So I'm not convinced that giving up information as to when we might be able to go off is smart either. They know what they're watching for now, and knowing when you've got all your pieces assembled could hurt you. I feel like Courser's +1 life is such a trap as well, it doesn't really offer us anything. I want something that sticks around. If I had room for another 3 drop I'd run Kitchen Finks. Even the cantrip from Wistful Selkie didn't do it for me. Although she does seem like she could be okay in a linear combo-centric deck that looks to go off super fast. I played like that for a while when the field of opponents still wasn't as familiar with the archetype. I feel like that ship has sailed though. It's too easy to disrupt and people know how to play against it now. Right now you're best off digging your feet in and fighting it out early while building up as much devotion as you can hold onto, and waiting for a good window in my opinion
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Eternal Witness
2 Acidic Slime
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Abundant Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Genesis Wave
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Harmonize
2 Primal Command
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
13 Forest
2 Strangleroot Geist
1 Wolfbriar Elemental
2 Stomping Ground
2 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dismember
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Defense Grid
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Hey so I think a good deal of the matchups are pretty straight forward but I'll tell you what I'd do.
Twin:
I'd do +2 defense grid +1 dismember -1 harmonize -2 Satyr Wayfinder. Add a little bit of protection take out a little bit of speed. You could also add in fracturing gust but it's sooo expensive to always keep up. I personally really like seal of primordium against twin.
Bogels:
+2 fracturing gust +1 dismember -2 harmonize -1 Satyr Wayfinder. Same sort of deal but I'd rather have a wayfinder to block than another harmonize. Dismember might be a bit of a waste but if you happen to start with it, casting it in response to a daybreak coronet could just win you the game.
Affinity:
+1 Fracturing Gust +2 Firespout -2 harmonize -1 Satyr Wayfinder. Same reasoning as bogle. I don't know if fracturing gust will actually come out soon enough to be useful but I think having one in the mainboard is good.
RWU Control:
This is a total guess as I haven't played it before but I'd say: +2 Magus of the Moon +2 Defense Grid +1 Thrun, the Last Troll -4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I really don't like the idea of using the Magus but if you're going to then I'd say change up your strategy entirely. I personally really like mistcutter hydra for control matchups. A turn 3 6/6 pro blue uncounterable beater is a huge threat.
There are a bunch of others I could talk about but I'd say just do what feels right. Personally I'm a fan of trading speed for protection when you're looking for things to pull out. And once again, I haven't actually used him so I don't know, but Magus of the Moon seems about as counterproductive to this deck's gameplan as possible. Hope this helps.
Also, I move that the deck be renamed Low Tide. It's in a way the analogue for High Tide in legacy, and I want to see more awesome deck names in modern.
the amount of times that i've played a turn 2 garruk is ridiculous.
i'm testing on cockatrice at the moment, last game i've played i casted a genesis wave for 20, didn't find a carterhoof, but hey no worries, cos out of it i got another hykthos, a couple of forests and a eternal witness. i then proceeded to cast a new wave for 28 (just tapping 2 lands: nykthos and a forest with utopia).
never had so much fun playing a deck. a big thank you to all of the people who contributed in this thread.
this is the list I've been testing:
4 voyaging satyr
3 strangleroot geist
4 leatherback baloth
3 eternal witness
2 troll ascetic
1 thrun, the last troll
1 primeval titan
2 craterhoof behemoth
4 genesis wave
3 primal command
4 garruk wildspeaker
1 kessig wolfrun
3 nykthos, shrine to nyx
4 stomping ground
12 forest
i preferred the satyr to burning-tree emissary, as i find it more useful to untap nykthos or a forest with utopia.
I'd like to have the opinion of someone with more experience with this deck on a couple of things:
i might put thrun in the side for the control match up, and substitute him with a xenagos, lord of revels.
also thinking on swapping the 2 troll ascetic with 2 predator ooze.
sometimes i felt harmonize would have been useful, but i really would;t know what to cut for it
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
story of my green devotion life.
maybe instead of 4 genesis wave and 3 primal command --> 3 genesis wave, 2 primal command, 2 harmonize ?
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
You can already get turn 3 wins with a pretty solid hand. The issue with triumph of the hordes is that you need to have at least 5 power on the board on 5 creatures and for the opponent to have no blockers. Even if you go:
turn 1 - arbor elf, stomping ground
turn 2 - forest, utopia sprawl, bte, bte, bte, bte
turn 3 - forest, triumph of the hordes
You only have 14 power attacking so you'd have to hope they have less than 5 defense to block.
A three turn win you can pull off with wave ends looking similar except that it'll involve attacking with massively huge craterhoofs instead of just scraping by with infect. The one time I've found infect useful is with inkmoth nexus. Fetching that and a wolf run with a prime time has one me more than a few games. Also I think that garruk's -4 is almost as good as triumph of the hordes so it doesn't seem like it adds enough to warrant removing things.