I think this will be the most common deck in the new format, it would be extremely oppressive but luckily goyf is too expensive for most people. I wouldn't play less than 4 of either goyf, Liliana, Bob or Siege Rhino in this deck. That core of 16 cards is insanely strong.
That being said I hope list like that don't show up much, because I don't play this deck, I try to beat this deck.
Do not discuss budget alternatives to cards in the non-Budget deck threads. We are going to be cracking down on this across the forum starting next week
That said, Tas is a passable replacement for Goyf, both because you can use it to shrink enemy Goyfs, and it provides a lot of longterm value in grindy matchups.
I've been testing him in other decks and he's been pretty sweet. I wouldn't run more than 1-2 max but he's got a good P/T for the cost and his ability isn't irrelevant at all in the late game if you need a mana sink that isn't Gavony Township.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (no use for the new one) is good with aggro/Lingering Souls strategies due to his anthem ability. If your opponent doesn't wipe the board or deal with threats or combo you out it can be back breaking. But your opponent has to do none of those things.
I think the new Sorin is much better than old Sorin for this type of deck +1+0 and lifelink or a big, flying vampire. I wouldn't consider old Sorin at all to be honest.
I think the new Sorin is much better than old Sorin for this type of deck +1+0 and lifelink or a big, flying vampire. I wouldn't consider old Sorin at all to be honest.
The new Sorin (3.0) is decent, but I don't like him as much as Lord of Innistrad (2.0) and here's why:
Sorin 3.0 is dependent upon you having creatures. +1/+0 and lifelink is great if you have it, but unlike Sorin 2.0 he is not as much of a game winner on his own. Technically yes he does protect himself by making a token but he goes down to do so and his ultimate isn't nearly as relevant in the meta as you would think. Saccing one creature a turn is backbreaking to very few decks. Tron doesn't care, they have Karn. Combo (twin, ascendancy, storm, etc) doesn't care, they're gonna kill you in one turn. Merfolk, the mirror and bogle come to mind that are affected by it.
Sorin 2.0 goes up for every token he makes so protecting himself is much more viable. Sure it loses flying but it gains lifelink as well so you already have some guaranteed lifegain. 2.0's emblem is also not to be underestimated since it can be done immediately, resembling almost as much power as Garruk Wildspeaker's ultimate (another planeswalker which sometimes make an appearance in Lingering Souls builds). If you DO happen to get to his ultimate there are more times that it's viable than 3.0's. If it's not? Make more emblems, they will win the game on their own even if you have only a manland available.
Bottom line, the way I see it if you're running any planeswalkers they should be game-ending threats. This deck runs off of power, not synergy. This deck's resilience is based off of raw power in individual cards that have little to do with each other. Elspeth assures this, Lilly assures this, Garruk assures this. Sorin 2.0 also has potential to but 3.0 does not as much.
Keep in mind each card is ok but not needed in this current build. It adds some powerful spice if you're running Lingering Souls but in a world of Rhino/Goyf/Bob/Lilly you probably won't be missing him too much.
As part of our new forum update, we really want threads to be more focused on their main deck. Currently, we have three threads for three different BGx decks: Jund, Junk, and BG Rock. In the past, we have been pretty lenient about allowing BG Rock and Junk discussion to cross-populate the threads, especially when the deck was only splashing for 3-4 copies of something like Souls. But now that Rhino is around, we are seeing a lot of decks with 8+ white cards in the maindeck and very few instances of "pure" BG Rock. This can be confusing for new players who don't know where to go for information about a deck, or where to discuss ideas for their version of BGx midrange.
Going ahead, how do you guys want to deal with this? Do you think we should ban all white splash discussion from this thread and keep that in Junk? Should we set a cutoff for how many white cards are allowed to be included in a deck to be Junk vs. BG Rock? Or should we maybe merge the threads into one giant BG and BGW mega discussion? Something else entirely? All of those ideas have different pros and cons and staff is curious to hear what you all think about them.
As part of our new forum update, we really want threads to be more focused on their main deck. Currently, we have three threads for three different BGx decks: Jund, Junk, and BG Rock. In the past, we have been pretty lenient about allowing BG Rock and Junk discussion to cross-populate the threads, especially when the deck was only splashing for 3-4 copies of something like Souls. But now that Rhino is around, we are seeing a lot of decks with 8+ white cards in the maindeck and very few instances of "pure" BG Rock. This can be confusing for new players who don't know where to go for information about a deck, or where to discuss ideas for their version of BGx midrange.
Going ahead, how do you guys want to deal with this? Do you think we should ban all white splash discussion from this thread and keep that in Junk? Should we set a cutoff for how many white cards are allowed to be included in a deck to be Junk vs. BG Rock? Or should we maybe merge the threads into one giant BG and BGW mega discussion? Something else entirely? All of those ideas have different pros and cons and staff is curious to hear what you all think about them.
Let us know!
Well the original rock still exists in spirit in the new junk deck. Rather than obliterock it is rhino-rock. However, before the reorganization there was a junk thread in established that was dancing around tree-folk and doran, which I feel is very different than the rock.
I think BGx is too broad, but that the Rock (Classic, Obliterock, Rhino-rock or Tectonic Rock) should be one thread, Jund should be another and then other Junk variants should be separate.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Guys, Tasigur is BUSTED. The card is essentially 4/5 for B that can't be inquisitioned, bolted or decayed. The ability is phenomenal in the long grindy matchups such as the mirror. The body stops opposing Goyfs (most of the time), Rhinos, Anafenzas and whatever other crappy little ground creatures your opponent plays.
The real question is whether this card is better than Dark Confidant, since obviously you can't play both in the same deck. There are a few points why I think Tasigur is better.
1. While Bob is no doubt amazing, I expect the life loss to be quite relevant (Prevalence of Burn and Aggro, higher average CMC not even Rhinos can effectively offset etc).
2. Imagine you're playing the mirror, you and your opponent trade off resources and the game comes down to top decks. He rips a Bob and you draw a Tasigur. Now sure, he's guaranteed 1 additional card per turn, but at the cost of his life, while you have the potential to grave dig more than 1 nonland card per turn at instant speed. Furthermore, Bob pales in comparison with your 4/5 and there is no way he can even try to race you.
3. Not playing Bob means you are not restricted in the way you construct your deck. E.g, you get to play unconditional removal such as Murderous Cut.
Some other points from limited testing of Abzan:
-Dismember is amazing, albeit expensive. It kills everything you want it to kill (Goyf, Tasigur, Anafenza, Rhino etc).
-Deck needs a way to trump the mirror. All your creatures are x/x+1 (Goyf, Tasigur, Rhino). Township? Vault? Darkblast? Of these, I like blast the most, since it's good against other stuff such as Souls, Affinity, Tokens and you can use it to fuel your GY for delve.
I played Tasigur tonight as a 1 of, and I think that is plenty. There were so many times (as in almost every game) where drawing a Tasigur would have shrunk my Goyfs into oblivion.
Against what matchups does that matter though? If it's the mirror, your opponents's Goyf shrinks as well, which is perfect because it let's you get offensive with it. Against other matchups, an active Tasigur means you can just fuel your GY and regrow your goyf later, while still having a 4/5.
It matters alot to me, except perhaps in the mirror. I don't like leaving Goyfs susceptible for even one turn to something like bolt.
Just asking but against which deck would you be playing then?
The game has gotten to a point where you casted a goyf and then a Tasigur with delve but the entire graveyard of your opponent is still emtpy? Against a bolt deck which are mostly UR/x decks who play a bunch of counters, fetchlands and cantrips? And you didn't interact with them or they haven't interacted with you in a anyway with discard, removal or counters?
I want to be honest but that scenario sounds pretty fringe.
its ability`s mana is so huge for us,u cant active it and play the card u get in same turn except late game
and some match-up u cant get a card u need when u play its ability first time,vs tron?give u a decay,mirror? give u a thoughtseize when u a opponent control a liliana...
and it stop ur goyf...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
That being said I hope list like that don't show up much, because I don't play this deck, I try to beat this deck.
Good luck!
That said, Tas is a passable replacement for Goyf, both because you can use it to shrink enemy Goyfs, and it provides a lot of longterm value in grindy matchups.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (no use for the new one) is good with aggro/Lingering Souls strategies due to his anthem ability. If your opponent doesn't wipe the board or deal with threats or combo you out it can be back breaking. But your opponent has to do none of those things.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
The new Sorin (3.0) is decent, but I don't like him as much as Lord of Innistrad (2.0) and here's why:
Sorin 3.0 is dependent upon you having creatures. +1/+0 and lifelink is great if you have it, but unlike Sorin 2.0 he is not as much of a game winner on his own. Technically yes he does protect himself by making a token but he goes down to do so and his ultimate isn't nearly as relevant in the meta as you would think. Saccing one creature a turn is backbreaking to very few decks. Tron doesn't care, they have Karn. Combo (twin, ascendancy, storm, etc) doesn't care, they're gonna kill you in one turn. Merfolk, the mirror and bogle come to mind that are affected by it.
Sorin 2.0 goes up for every token he makes so protecting himself is much more viable. Sure it loses flying but it gains lifelink as well so you already have some guaranteed lifegain. 2.0's emblem is also not to be underestimated since it can be done immediately, resembling almost as much power as Garruk Wildspeaker's ultimate (another planeswalker which sometimes make an appearance in Lingering Souls builds). If you DO happen to get to his ultimate there are more times that it's viable than 3.0's. If it's not? Make more emblems, they will win the game on their own even if you have only a manland available.
Bottom line, the way I see it if you're running any planeswalkers they should be game-ending threats. This deck runs off of power, not synergy. This deck's resilience is based off of raw power in individual cards that have little to do with each other. Elspeth assures this, Lilly assures this, Garruk assures this. Sorin 2.0 also has potential to but 3.0 does not as much.
Keep in mind each card is ok but not needed in this current build. It adds some powerful spice if you're running Lingering Souls but in a world of Rhino/Goyf/Bob/Lilly you probably won't be missing him too much.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
i mean people are suggesting nearly identical decks on both threads as part of the discussion.
is there actually a difference?
As part of our new forum update, we really want threads to be more focused on their main deck. Currently, we have three threads for three different BGx decks: Jund, Junk, and BG Rock. In the past, we have been pretty lenient about allowing BG Rock and Junk discussion to cross-populate the threads, especially when the deck was only splashing for 3-4 copies of something like Souls. But now that Rhino is around, we are seeing a lot of decks with 8+ white cards in the maindeck and very few instances of "pure" BG Rock. This can be confusing for new players who don't know where to go for information about a deck, or where to discuss ideas for their version of BGx midrange.
Going ahead, how do you guys want to deal with this? Do you think we should ban all white splash discussion from this thread and keep that in Junk? Should we set a cutoff for how many white cards are allowed to be included in a deck to be Junk vs. BG Rock? Or should we maybe merge the threads into one giant BG and BGW mega discussion? Something else entirely? All of those ideas have different pros and cons and staff is curious to hear what you all think about them.
Let us know!
i think will just run 3 liliana and no other planeswalker in my junk deck
Well the original rock still exists in spirit in the new junk deck. Rather than obliterock it is rhino-rock. However, before the reorganization there was a junk thread in established that was dancing around tree-folk and doran, which I feel is very different than the rock.
I think BGx is too broad, but that the Rock (Classic, Obliterock, Rhino-rock or Tectonic Rock) should be one thread, Jund should be another and then other Junk variants should be separate.
The real question is whether this card is better than Dark Confidant, since obviously you can't play both in the same deck. There are a few points why I think Tasigur is better.
1. While Bob is no doubt amazing, I expect the life loss to be quite relevant (Prevalence of Burn and Aggro, higher average CMC not even Rhinos can effectively offset etc).
2. Imagine you're playing the mirror, you and your opponent trade off resources and the game comes down to top decks. He rips a Bob and you draw a Tasigur. Now sure, he's guaranteed 1 additional card per turn, but at the cost of his life, while you have the potential to grave dig more than 1 nonland card per turn at instant speed. Furthermore, Bob pales in comparison with your 4/5 and there is no way he can even try to race you.
3. Not playing Bob means you are not restricted in the way you construct your deck. E.g, you get to play unconditional removal such as Murderous Cut.
Some other points from limited testing of Abzan:
-Dismember is amazing, albeit expensive. It kills everything you want it to kill (Goyf, Tasigur, Anafenza, Rhino etc).
-Deck needs a way to trump the mirror. All your creatures are x/x+1 (Goyf, Tasigur, Rhino). Township? Vault? Darkblast? Of these, I like blast the most, since it's good against other stuff such as Souls, Affinity, Tokens and you can use it to fuel your GY for delve.
For those who're interested, the current list is:
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Twilight Mire
1 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Siege Rhino
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Murderous Cut
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Darkblast
2 Dismember
Just asking but against which deck would you be playing then?
The game has gotten to a point where you casted a goyf and then a Tasigur with delve but the entire graveyard of your opponent is still emtpy? Against a bolt deck which are mostly UR/x decks who play a bunch of counters, fetchlands and cantrips? And you didn't interact with them or they haven't interacted with you in a anyway with discard, removal or counters?
I want to be honest but that scenario sounds pretty fringe.
its ability`s mana is so huge for us,u cant active it and play the card u get in same turn except late game
and some match-up u cant get a card u need when u play its ability first time,vs tron?give u a decay,mirror? give u a thoughtseize when u a opponent control a liliana...
and it stop ur goyf...