This is my first report. So it may have many errors, and Included the English language in the middle, because it isn't my native tongue.
The day before yesterday we had a modern FNM at my local store.
I went with a Soul Sisters version based on the Reid Duke's.
16x Plains
4x Horizon Canopy
4x Windbrisk Heights
2x Lone Missionary
2x Martyr of Sands
4x Soul's Attendant
4x Soul Warden
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Ajani's Pridemate
4x Ranger of Eos
4x Archangel of Thune
4x Path to Exile
4x Spectral Procession
Sideboard
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Rest in Peace
3x Disenchant
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Stony Silence
1x Ghostly Prison
I went 3-1-1
Match 1: Birthing Pod
G1: I risked T1 Serra Ascendant and T2 Martyr of Sands. I didn't know he is playing Birthing Pod, I was thinking he was GW Aggro. With Serra Ascendant online on turn 2 the game was mine. But he thinks too much and the time goes past. He conceded in the turn 5.
G2: My hand had Serra Ascendant and Martyr again, but without white cards to make Serra online on turn 2. On turn 3 Serra Ascendant was on-line, but he played Birthing Pod on turn 2, goes for Pestermite and then sacrifice Restoration Angel. Path to Exile on his Pestermite with the ability on the stack, but then he searched for Archangel of Thune and in the next turn he gets Spike Feeder and won with only 1 life left... Rest in Peace didn't worked (he hadn't have Melira)
G3: Time is over. Draw
Match 2: GW Aggro
G1: This was a good match for me. This version of Soul Sisters is very good against non-combo creature decks. Archangel of Thune on turn 4 with Windbrisk Heights gives the game.
G2: His sideboard wasn't prepared for Soul Sisters. Turn 5 Archangel of Thune gives the game again.
Match 3: Affinity
G1: He rush me with Vault Skirge with Cranial Plating. I resist with Spectral Procession until I find 3x Ranger of Eos (who gives me 6 Sisters), them I find Ajani's Pridemate, followed by Archangel of Thune which ends the game.
G2: My sideboard cards didn't came. But his hand was too much slow for a Affinity. I resist with Spectral Procession, them find Ajani's Pridemate and Ranger of Eos. My Serra Ascendant came on-line on turn 6. Them I beat slowly with Serra Ascendant because he had two Inkmoth Nexus, a Cranial Plating and Ravager.
Match 4: Goblins
G1: Martyr of Sands on turn 2 give me the time I needed until find Ajani's Pridemate, which grows too much and he can't hold.
G2: I start with 3x Sisters, which takes Electrickery on turn 2. His Goblin Guide gives me 2 lands and I topdecked 2x Path to Exile and 2x Lone Missionary, which holds the game until I make Soul Warden and Archangel of Thune (I was with 4 life).
Match 5: UWr Control
G1: I didn't played. My hand was very good with 3x Lands, 1x Ranger of Eos, 2x Sisters and Path to Exile. I make Ranger of Eos on turn 4, but on turn 5 he casts Supreme Verdict. I restart my gameplain with 2x Serra Ascendant, who takes Electrolyze. Archangel of Thune takes Mana Leak, Ajani's Pridemate takes Path to Exile. Them he casts Snapcaster to Supreme Verdict again. This was a very dificult game for me.
G2: Out 4x Path to Exile, a Archangel of Thune and a land. In 3x Thalia and 2x Ethersworn Canonist. I started with Martyr of Sands, them Soul's Attendant. He Electrolyze them. Spectral Procession takes Mana Leak. He casts Ajani Vengeant, taking out my creatures. I was beated too easily in the two games.
This was my FNM. This version was very good against fair creature decks, need a bit of luck against Pod (Reid Duke himself said that not only played with Soul Sisters because of the horrible matchup against Pod decks) and I was demolished against UWr Control.
I liked the 2x Martyr of Sands in the maindeck, disliked Lone Missionary (a bet of mine) and I went off the store thinking in how to defeat the UWr Control. This deck has space for Cavern of Souls? What cards put in the sideboard?
Well done. I enjoyed your report.
Surely you get a better pod match with four martyr? The main method of beating pod G1 is Serra A/Martyr as early as possible. The more time goes on the better the match gets for them. When boarding against Pod, running Grafdigger's and Mindcensors can hurt them a lot till they remove it. Cage is really nasty for them, hitting the Melira/Persist combo as well as the Pod and Chord aspect.
You seem to have a lot of generic reactive answers in the board, good cards but not big game changers- O ring and Disenchant. Thalia is a huge game changer vs Storm, Infect or Boggles, of course, and Rest in Peace is excellent. But O ring is not a card I would expect to have success with. If you cast it vs say, Tron, you may take out a huge Wurmcoil or Karn, but if they have the mana then in two more turns you will be up against it again as you have not disrupted their base. By the time you can cast the O ring to good effect it is too late- their mana is set up, their game plan is set up. In contrast cards like Stony Silence and Mindcensor are strong vs tron though as they buy a turn or two of big early beats. Ditto vs USA- yes, you may take a planeswalker out but again with O ring, they always win the match in the end if it goes long- they need to be dead before that. The best way of beating USA for my money is to go aggro on the ascendant, force them to board wipe, and follow when they are tapped out with Ranger etc. O ring is not a card to bring in vs aggro, as Sistas is strong vs aggro anyway, whilst Vs. creature combo it is pretty inefficient and reactive rather than proactive.
Disenchant suffers in the same way- the impact is ok for its cost, but they get to use their stuff before you get to kill it. Again Stony Silence stops stuff before it happens, or Aura of silence slows stuff coming down and then kills it if needed.
If you check my board in my post above I think I used fifteen pro active cards- cards that come down as soon as I can cast them and potentially impact the board when I do. I think with such a limited deck as ours we need every board slot to be highly effective - even if narrow in application- rather than broadly good but not game changing....
I see no reason other than Spectrals as to why you can't run Cavern of Souls, but I don't think it is as important as it is in Norrin versions.
I am also wondering why you played 2 canonist- vs USA, Storm, UR delver and other Snapcaster decks an Eidolon of Rhetoric would be more robust- bolt proof-, and if they are running Echoing Truth as many blue decks do a 1/1 split is surely better?
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Hello all, I have enjoyed what I have read in this thread so far (I haven't read every post yet, but enough to get some ideas). As with most SS players, this is/was my first modern deck build. I have enjoyed it quite a bit. I run the Phyrexian Sisters Infinite Life build, like I've seen folks post here and there on this thread (Phyrexian metamorph+leonin relic warder). I've had success with it, top 8-ing about 50% of my modern tourneys with it. The winners in my mind are serra's ascendant+martyr, and Phyrexian Metamorph has won me a surprising amount of games even without combo-ing off. I cut Ajani's Pridemate completely, and haven't run Ghost Quarters but most certainly will after seeing this thread. I currently run a wierdo 61-card deck, but it seems to work for me. I could cut a single sister, hawk, or spec proc, but even ss-is with anything over 20 lands I get consistently mana flooded... and I have no idea why.
Another thing I am interested in adding is the (x)1 HotP creature as a one-or-two-of, in addition to Archangel of Thune. Looks very strong. I stupidly traded my Elspeth, Knight Errant for an Elspeth, Sun's Champion (which screwed my mana curve something awful) but likely will cut both from my deck simply due to not needing EKE because of the exclusion of Ajani's Pridemate. I will most likely also throw in some fetches to thin the deck a bit, and hopefully speed her up while having the unfortunate side-effect of taking her out of the "budget" category.
Sideboard-wise, I plan on taking out the Brave the Elements and Ethersworn Cannonist (porting her into my Ensoul Deck), and replacing them with another 2x Rest in Peace as well as 4x Aven Mindcensor.
I'm intrigued by the splash red builds which include helix lightning. They look very interesting and would work well with fetches+shocks.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm a fan of this deck in a big way, and actually registered on this site just for this thread!
I am a new Soul Sisters pilot, usually playing Burn.
I plan on building Reid Dukes Soul Sisters list (with a few budget modifications), since it apparently did pretty well.
The list looks like this:
[deck-sista]Lands:
16 plains
4 windbrisk Heights
4 Tectonic Edge
Spells:
2 Brave the Elements
4 Path to Exile
4 Spectral Procession
Creatures:
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Ajani's Pridemate
2 Auriok Champion
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Archangel of Thune[/deck]
I liked the idea of having Martyr of Sands and Serra Ascendant, but it's just too cute. Any sort of removal on the Ascendant in response to the Martyr sac will just absolutely murder your tempo.
For that reason I like cutting the Martyrs and Squadron Hawks. The Archangel can do absolutely broken stuff in this shell with so many Sisters and Spectral Processions.
I kinda like having a splash for a really powerful card, though. I considered splashing blue for Geist of Saint Traft, green for Gavony Township and red for Lightning Helix.
I don't know, though. I think Gavony Township will make the deck a lot stronger in the late game where the 1/1's doesn't really cut it. The helix is a sorely needed extra piece of removal with added lifegain. Geist is a great finisher and will trigger Sisters every time he attacks.
Do you guys think it's worth it to splash? Budget is not an issue.
Geist - No, never. You have few ways to get it through, and it is yet more pyroclasm fodder.
Gavony- maybe- I have used it in PTQ to good effect a couple of years ago in this deck.
helix- yes.
You are not going to be beating combo if you drop Martyr from the 75, though. I tried it and it just does not work vs combo, or for that matter tron (even with edges). Unless you have the ability to get a T2/3 ascendant on line you just lose (yes, playing ascendant and then Martry is risky, but knowing when to take that risk is just part of the playskill element). Almost the combo decks like scapeshift or Pod operate with a large amount of control, and in particular the pridemates end up with no mates as the early board wipes hit and they come down as vanilla 2/2s for just long enough for the combo deck to go off t5/6 and its GG. Only ad nauseam and storm operate with a deck with little control and they can go off t4 reguarly. Additionally Getting to near 30 turn 2/3 can screw certain combo decks up, putting them back a turn before they can go off to lethal effect.
Surely you get a better pod match with four martyr? The main method of beating pod G1 is Serra A/Martyr as early as possible. The more time goes on the better the match gets for them. When boarding against Pod, running Grafdigger's and Mindcensors can hurt them a lot till they remove it. Cage is really nasty for them, hitting the Melira/Persist combo as well as the Pod and Chord aspect.
You seem to have a lot of generic reactive answers in the board, good cards but not big game changers- O ring and Disenchant. Thalia is a huge game changer vs Storm, Infect or Boggles, of course, and Rest in Peace is excellent. But O ring is not a card I would expect to have success with. If you cast it vs say, Tron, you may take out a huge Wurmcoil or Karn, but if they have the mana then in two more turns you will be up against it again as you have not disrupted their base. By the time you can cast the O ring to good effect it is too late- their mana is set up, their game plan is set up. In contrast cards like Stony Silence and Mindcensor are strong vs tron though as they buy a turn or two of big early beats. Ditto vs USA- yes, you may take a planeswalker out but again with O ring, they always win the match in the end if it goes long- they need to be dead before that. The best way of beating USA for my money is to go aggro on the ascendant, force them to board wipe, and follow when they are tapped out with Ranger etc. O ring is not a card to bring in vs aggro, as Sistas is strong vs aggro anyway, whilst Vs. creature combo it is pretty inefficient and reactive rather than proactive.
Disenchant suffers in the same way- the impact is ok for its cost, but they get to use their stuff before you get to kill it. Again Stony Silence stops stuff before it happens, or Aura of silence slows stuff coming down and then kills it if needed.
If you check my board in my post above I think I used fifteen pro active cards- cards that come down as soon as I can cast them and potentially impact the board when I do. I think with such a limited deck as ours we need every board slot to be highly effective - even if narrow in application- rather than broadly good but not game changing....
I see no reason other than Spectrals as to why you can't run Cavern of Souls, but I don't think it is as important as it is in Norrin versions.
I am also wondering why you played 2 canonist- vs USA, Storm, UR delver and other Snapcaster decks an Eidolon of Rhetoric would be more robust- bolt proof-, and if they are running Echoing Truth as many blue decks do a 1/1 split is surely better?
Thanks for the reply.
About the sideboard I agree with you: Oblivion Ring wasn't cogitate. They made 0 apparations on the main deck. This general answer wasn't good for my Soul Sisters. I will cut it and put something like Aven Mindcensor.
The same goes to Disenchant: only boarded in against Affinity. But Disenchant was used only because I didn't found Stony Silence in time.
Ethersworn Canonist vs Eidolon of Rhetoric: Who is the best in the sideboard? Eidolon survives Lightning Bolt, but Canonist costs 1 less mana. Against combo one turn may be the difference between life and death. Do we have other options against UWr, Storm, UR Delver and the new Jeskai Ascendancy?
I will test Cavern of Souls then post the results here.
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Current playing:
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
Could a 1-of Martyr of Sands work with 2 in sideboard? They do neuter any sort of combo deck that doesn't go infinite. The 4 Rangers should work to fetch them for the matchups where they're amazing.
Well I don't see why not. I draw the analagy with Dark Ritual in Legacy Pox- it is the absolute nuts, and yet a poor late game topdeck. I have seen them used as a board card too. Martry is great vs some decks, not relevant Vs. others, at least as anything other than a vanilla critter. I think versions with archangel can afford to play 4 main deck as their vanilla beaters get big and it can b used as a +1+1 counter for every critter. As i use Jotun Grunt main deck it has extra uses there, too.
I tried so hard to drop them but unlike Hawks and Pridemates they just kept coming back.
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@Tumorbr
You should beat RU delver whatever.
But for storm - Rhetoric, Rule of Law, Thalia, Thorn of amythst ??( I forget it's name- but it is Thalia with no body), Canonist, Trinisphere. Aura of silence too for any enchantment deck, really, and rest in peace for storm. Grunt also hurts USA, Delver and other Snappy decks.
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Martyr is most effective in the first three turns. Wanting to Ranger into is not where you want to be, because Ranger comes down so late. Using it to fetch you Martyr will gain you at most 9 life and typically more like 6 or 3. These are nice gains, but they typically won't be enough to stop a combo deck from ending you or stop a combat-oriented deck from running you over.
If you're cutting Martyr down that far, I would cut it altogether (making room for your Thunes and more Aurioks) and rely on sideboard to beat combo decks. You won't have the explosive start, but most people seem to not like relying on that anyway. In this instance I do think sticking with 2-3 Ascendants is fine, as you'll be getting that card in the air much less. I would still go with four, but that's a personal choice (Martyr-Ascendant is the reason I play this deck, so it does break my heart a little that people are relying on it less.)
So far, my personal favorite combo-hoser is Thalia. She's excellent in that role and has a lot of application in other matchups. She's made UWR and UW Control a little easier for me because she makes a lot of their cards less efficient if she can stick. Still not a match up I like sitting across from, but she's pushed it in my favor in testing. Since everything you put in that slot (save an artifact) is going to be boltable anyway, the one toughness isn't much of a factor. Not to mention she's the best beater of the bunch.
Martyr is most effective in the first three turns. In this instance I do think sticking with 2-3 Ascendants is fine, as you'll be getting that card in the air much less. I would still go with four, but that's a personal choice (Martyr-Ascendant is the reason I play this deck, so it does break my heart a little that people are relying on it less.)
So far, my personal favorite combo-hoser is Thalia. She's excellent in that role and has a lot of application in other matchups. She's made UWR and UW Control a little easier for me because she makes a lot of their cards less efficient if she can stick. Still not a match up I like sitting across from, but she's pushed it in my favor in testing. Since everything you put in that slot (save an artifact) is going to be boltable anyway, the one toughness isn't much of a factor. Not to mention she's the best beater of the bunch.
I agree- especially on the first point. The ability to "go off" is what separates this deck from hatebears or Death and Taxes.
I love Thalia, its between her and spellskite as the best creature hosers, with Leyline of sanctity up there too.
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I agree- especially on the first point. The ability to "go off" is what separates this deck from hatebears or Death and Taxes.
I love Thalia, its between her and spellskite as the best creature hosers, with Leyline of sanctity up there too.
Yeah, I don't think I could part ways with the part of this deck that makes people fear you, but I understand the desire for a more consistent finish. I do worry about the people who are looking to win by dropping or flipping Thune if Jeskai Ascendancy stays being a thing, though. Not that we can't beat that deck, but I think it could push people into a faster Modern where Soul Sisters can't compete if it can't get Serra Ascendant airborn turn 2.
Spellskite is excellent if you're cutting Martyr and don't need things to be mono-white, definitely. I keep Leyline of Sanctity and a combo specific hatebear in my sideboard, right now it's 2 Thalia and 2 Leyline, and I've been pretty satisfied with it. Leyline does work against Jund just as much as it does against combo and laughs at any deck that wants to Thoughtseize you T1.
I actually use the full martyr and use skites. The matches spellskites are great in are....
a) Boggles
b) Twin
c) RDW
d) Infect or shotgun style decks
e) Affinity
Vs. boogles going off with martyr and ascendant won't actually win it for us very often- they outrace it with say a rancor, a coronet and a pro from critters enchantment. Once they use the armor on top of that style of stuff we are done for- so this deck needs a lot of hosing.
With RDW there is a high chance we do not get the martry life as their deck is very set on stopping lifegain, esp post board. The skite is very strong vs it. It is one of our good matches whatever, esp if you use Aurioks as I do.
With infect our lifetotal is irrelevant- they win t4 if uninterrupted- esp if they run crusaders main- so this is a nuttily good card.
Vs affinity the ability to block an etched once with plating or more if no pump is about is really strong. This plus the ability to stop a arcbound trick is probably greater than the loss of martyr life.
Of course Thalia does a similar job to skite -not quite as good vs infect and boggles- but much better in other matches- eg tron. There are so many options we have. As long as we run interactive sideboar cards they deck should prosper.
I have fetched a late game martyr to win - but normally it arises via an already strong board position. At least with Thune we can make good use of one ones later in the game.
So generally these cards together have been no much of a problem for me.
That's super interesting, MarkB. I've always been really conservative about mixing colorless cards with Martyr (I ran a Stoneforge package in the Legacy version of this deck and it hurt badly) but I would definitely be interesting in running a few Spellskites. Also opens the door for a small equipment package if it becomes necessary in some metas.
Currently what are the worst matchup for us? And can we do in our main and sideboard to improve this match?
I think it's UW/UWR control. It's almost unwinnable game one due to their abundance of counters and removal (and the ability to Snap them back) and Gideon is a major pain. What makes it worse is that most of the common sideboard cards we use only shut down part of their deck, so you need a hand full of them to make things happen. Rest in Peace shuts down Snapcaster, Suppression Field hurt any walkers they run, their fetches and their manlands. Auriok Champion, if she's not in your main, becomes very important.
G1- I get slow beats, but go off t5 or so via archangel.
G2- I get to 30 odd life- he has to go off- and combos all the way via TT Breach, stopping with 8 cards left in the library but RIP is down. Sadly his next opportunity to win via EMMY can only get me to one with him dead on the swing back by a couple of tokens, so he has to do it via Grissel blocking mid combat- and I have path in hand for it.
2-0
R2 - timewalk.
G1 he takes literally high double figures extra turns. I concede only when I am satisfied he can't win g3 If I win G2.
G2 he is up against it, I get to swing needing a land for the win via archangel and a life gain off martyr. I get distracted by continuing the conversation I had during the 25 mins of extra turning g1- forget to draw the extra card off howling mine and lose because of it. Next card was the land I wanted.
Grr.
0-2
R3
Mono G aggro
I lose g1. He just goes first, gets the nuts. I gain stupid life but his scooze wins it eventually- I can never draw archangel or tokens and have to do it with Sistas and Grunts- which suck vs Scooze.
G2 goes the normal way for aggro, and g3 we have no time for. I thought he could have scooped earlier once I got ascendants online, but then so could I game 1.
1-1
R4 Jeskai Storm standard deck version I believe.
Lose g1- he goes off for ten mins plus- apologising. I explain about the timewalk experience and I concede correctly time wise.
G2- I just sneak- eventually resolving Linvala. Spellskite saves the day t2 buying time.
G3 I get RIP for delve, Spellskite for enchantments, Linvala for mana men and Aura of silence for everything enchantment based. I win- that is a lot of hate.
2-0
Thoughts- I am adding one Thalia to the board and one to the mainp- especially after bob's comments above on Thalia. They play awfully with procession, but are just needed for those combo and USA matches. Two grunts remain.
Incidentally USA is improved somewhat with Grunt main- it hoses the Snapcaster's ability whilst not taking up a card with RIP which fails to do damage. Gideon is a pain for sure, but not all decks run it and sometimes it is just a super fog. The key to beating Usa is simple for me- you just have to go off via Martyr and from there make sure that when they tap out you can follow with a minimum Procession/Hotp or Ranger. Going off is the key. Skite is not bad against it either- saving activated Serra or Archangels. I will drop t1 Martyr vs them G2- gambling there is no bolt. Windbrisk and Ranger are the card advantage cards, but the longer the game goes the more they win- so I think it is all about the combo and Grunts and protecting them with Skite. Archangels and sistas route rarely does it for me.
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Hey guys, was thinking about putting together Soul Sis, and was wondering;
Has anyone ever tried to do anything with Essence Warden? I could see how 3 versions of the same card is a lot of redundancy, but it opens up another color without getting rid of what makes the deck tick.
Thoughts- I am adding one Thalia to the board and one to the mainp- especially after bob's comments above on Thalia. They play awfully with procession, but are just needed for those combo and USA matches. Two grunts remain.
Honestly, I don't know how much you would need to lean on Procession with all of the beats you would have. Grunt, Thune and Thalia seems like a pretty brutal combination of the best parts of hatebears for us and could make up for the damage the Spirits would do. Definitely worth some testing.
Hey guys, was thinking about putting together Soul Sis, and was wondering;
Has anyone ever tried to do anything with Essence Warden? I could see how 3 versions of the same card is a lot of redundancy, but it opens up another color without getting rid of what makes the deck tick.
The general consensus is that 7-9 sisters effects is the right number and that adding Essence Warden would just be overkill. Ageless Entity is a little too high as far as mana cost and Voracious Wurm is just a not as consistent Pridemate, who we have enough of in the deck. Spike Feeder is new to the conversation and may be worth testing with Thune.
I think if you go for the green splash - which I will say many people have hated in the past - you want to completely ditch Martyr/Serra and go for one of the Thune focused builds. I would lean less towards big beaters like Voracious Wurm and Ageless Entity and more towards tempo/combo cards like Kitchen Finks or Spike Feeder. Finks could be really hilarious with Thune and I wouldn't mind seeing the results from Spike Feeder testing.
So far my biggest trouble has been UWx control. I have just had no luck with matches against them and when I look into my sideboard I see no answers aside from grave hate. Any suggestions?
Grave hate is not stellar vs UWR control unless it happens to beat for four in a Jotun Grunt fashion. You are only taking a portion of their deck out. Hence you should leave rest in peace where it is in the board unless your hate does something else such as relic of progenitus or grunt.
Core cards in some builds are actively bad vs UWR- hawks and pridemates. My meta has some USA and I hate losing to it and so took the weakest aspect of the deck vs control out first. The former because they are slow and cannot put early pressure needed to win the game. The latter encourage over commitment into wrath effects.
I also think that combating planeswalkers with O ring never works.
Cards/strategies that are good vs UWR:
Honor+ Spec proc
Ascendant into martyr early on.
Windbrisk+ proc
Archangel is ok vs it but is great as a surprise via windbrisk. They do not resolve often for me.
Sometimes tec edge can steal a color for a turn.
If you play with cavern then Ranger of Eos + cavern is good at restocking.
Strategies that are bad vs URW:
pridemate + lots of men.
hawks
Brave the elements is not stellar either as it is an awful topdeck post wrath.
Board cards that hurt it
Thalia
Spellskite sometimes for protecting ascendant when activated
Maybe a sword though I doubt it.
I of course like Grunt.
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Good work drmarkkb.
With your new list the win average against control and combo decks has improved? I believe that's the way for our decks. Archangel of Thune for me has a fixed place in the main deck, with she the deck became strong on the late game and is a excellent top deck.
About Thalia I will try one or two in the main. What will you remove to put the Thalia?
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Current playing:
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
So far my biggest trouble has been UWx control. I have just had no luck with matches against them and when I look into my sideboard I see no answers aside from grave hate. Any suggestions?
I think Thalia is the best sideboard option for us. Thalia is good against UW, Storm, Jeskai Combo, Burn, Urzatron.
My sideboard will become this (when my cards arrive):
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (seriously thinking put one or two in the main)
2x Rest in Peace
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Stony Silence
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Brave the Elements (I have two in the main)
1x Aura of Silence or Pithing Needle (currently using Pithing Needle)
UWx Control is my nightmare too. Long time no match against it, but my deck is changing constantly to improve this match. The cards I'm using in the main are: 3x Auriok Champion, 2x Brave the Elements. Side in: 3x Thalia, 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 1x Eidolon of Rhetoric and 1x Brave the Elements. Side Out: 2x Archangel of Thune, 2x Plains, 3x Path to Exile (if it is UWr Heavy Control)
Well done. I enjoyed your report.
Surely you get a better pod match with four martyr? The main method of beating pod G1 is Serra A/Martyr as early as possible. The more time goes on the better the match gets for them. When boarding against Pod, running Grafdigger's and Mindcensors can hurt them a lot till they remove it. Cage is really nasty for them, hitting the Melira/Persist combo as well as the Pod and Chord aspect.
You seem to have a lot of generic reactive answers in the board, good cards but not big game changers- O ring and Disenchant. Thalia is a huge game changer vs Storm, Infect or Boggles, of course, and Rest in Peace is excellent. But O ring is not a card I would expect to have success with. If you cast it vs say, Tron, you may take out a huge Wurmcoil or Karn, but if they have the mana then in two more turns you will be up against it again as you have not disrupted their base. By the time you can cast the O ring to good effect it is too late- their mana is set up, their game plan is set up. In contrast cards like Stony Silence and Mindcensor are strong vs tron though as they buy a turn or two of big early beats. Ditto vs USA- yes, you may take a planeswalker out but again with O ring, they always win the match in the end if it goes long- they need to be dead before that. The best way of beating USA for my money is to go aggro on the ascendant, force them to board wipe, and follow when they are tapped out with Ranger etc. O ring is not a card to bring in vs aggro, as Sistas is strong vs aggro anyway, whilst Vs. creature combo it is pretty inefficient and reactive rather than proactive.
Disenchant suffers in the same way- the impact is ok for its cost, but they get to use their stuff before you get to kill it. Again Stony Silence stops stuff before it happens, or Aura of silence slows stuff coming down and then kills it if needed.
If you check my board in my post above I think I used fifteen pro active cards- cards that come down as soon as I can cast them and potentially impact the board when I do. I think with such a limited deck as ours we need every board slot to be highly effective - even if narrow in application- rather than broadly good but not game changing....
I see no reason other than Spectrals as to why you can't run Cavern of Souls, but I don't think it is as important as it is in Norrin versions.
I am also wondering why you played 2 canonist- vs USA, Storm, UR delver and other Snapcaster decks an Eidolon of Rhetoric would be more robust- bolt proof-, and if they are running Echoing Truth as many blue decks do a 1/1 split is surely better?
4x Soul Warden
4x Soul's Attendant
4x Leonin Relic-Warder
4x Phyrexian Metamorph
3x Marty of Sands
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Squadron Hawk
2x Ranger of Eos
4x Honor of the Pure
4x Spectral Procession
4x Path to Exile
Lands
20x Plains
2x Ethersworn Cannonist
3x Suppression Field
2x Stony Silence
2x Patrician's Scorn
2x Rest in Peace
4x Brave the Elements
Hello all, I have enjoyed what I have read in this thread so far (I haven't read every post yet, but enough to get some ideas). As with most SS players, this is/was my first modern deck build. I have enjoyed it quite a bit. I run the Phyrexian Sisters Infinite Life build, like I've seen folks post here and there on this thread (Phyrexian metamorph+leonin relic warder). I've had success with it, top 8-ing about 50% of my modern tourneys with it. The winners in my mind are serra's ascendant+martyr, and Phyrexian Metamorph has won me a surprising amount of games even without combo-ing off. I cut Ajani's Pridemate completely, and haven't run Ghost Quarters but most certainly will after seeing this thread. I currently run a wierdo 61-card deck, but it seems to work for me. I could cut a single sister, hawk, or spec proc, but even ss-is with anything over 20 lands I get consistently mana flooded... and I have no idea why.
Another thing I am interested in adding is the (x)1 HotP creature as a one-or-two-of, in addition to Archangel of Thune. Looks very strong. I stupidly traded my Elspeth, Knight Errant for an Elspeth, Sun's Champion (which screwed my mana curve something awful) but likely will cut both from my deck simply due to not needing EKE because of the exclusion of Ajani's Pridemate. I will most likely also throw in some fetches to thin the deck a bit, and hopefully speed her up while having the unfortunate side-effect of taking her out of the "budget" category.
Sideboard-wise, I plan on taking out the Brave the Elements and Ethersworn Cannonist (porting her into my Ensoul Deck), and replacing them with another 2x Rest in Peace as well as 4x Aven Mindcensor.
I'm intrigued by the splash red builds which include helix lightning. They look very interesting and would work well with fetches+shocks.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm a fan of this deck in a big way, and actually registered on this site just for this thread!
Geist - No, never. You have few ways to get it through, and it is yet more pyroclasm fodder.
Gavony- maybe- I have used it in PTQ to good effect a couple of years ago in this deck.
helix- yes.
You are not going to be beating combo if you drop Martyr from the 75, though. I tried it and it just does not work vs combo, or for that matter tron (even with edges). Unless you have the ability to get a T2/3 ascendant on line you just lose (yes, playing ascendant and then Martry is risky, but knowing when to take that risk is just part of the playskill element). Almost the combo decks like scapeshift or Pod operate with a large amount of control, and in particular the pridemates end up with no mates as the early board wipes hit and they come down as vanilla 2/2s for just long enough for the combo deck to go off t5/6 and its GG. Only ad nauseam and storm operate with a deck with little control and they can go off t4 reguarly. Additionally Getting to near 30 turn 2/3 can screw certain combo decks up, putting them back a turn before they can go off to lethal effect.
Thanks for the reply.
About the sideboard I agree with you: Oblivion Ring wasn't cogitate. They made 0 apparations on the main deck. This general answer wasn't good for my Soul Sisters. I will cut it and put something like Aven Mindcensor.
The same goes to Disenchant: only boarded in against Affinity. But Disenchant was used only because I didn't found Stony Silence in time.
Ethersworn Canonist vs Eidolon of Rhetoric: Who is the best in the sideboard? Eidolon survives Lightning Bolt, but Canonist costs 1 less mana. Against combo one turn may be the difference between life and death. Do we have other options against UWr, Storm, UR Delver and the new Jeskai Ascendancy?
I will test Cavern of Souls then post the results here.
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
Well I don't see why not. I draw the analagy with Dark Ritual in Legacy Pox- it is the absolute nuts, and yet a poor late game topdeck. I have seen them used as a board card too. Martry is great vs some decks, not relevant Vs. others, at least as anything other than a vanilla critter. I think versions with archangel can afford to play 4 main deck as their vanilla beaters get big and it can b used as a +1+1 counter for every critter. As i use Jotun Grunt main deck it has extra uses there, too.
I tried so hard to drop them but unlike Hawks and Pridemates they just kept coming back.
You should beat RU delver whatever.
But for storm - Rhetoric, Rule of Law, Thalia, Thorn of amythst ??( I forget it's name- but it is Thalia with no body), Canonist, Trinisphere. Aura of silence too for any enchantment deck, really, and rest in peace for storm. Grunt also hurts USA, Delver and other Snappy decks.
If you're cutting Martyr down that far, I would cut it altogether (making room for your Thunes and more Aurioks) and rely on sideboard to beat combo decks. You won't have the explosive start, but most people seem to not like relying on that anyway. In this instance I do think sticking with 2-3 Ascendants is fine, as you'll be getting that card in the air much less. I would still go with four, but that's a personal choice (Martyr-Ascendant is the reason I play this deck, so it does break my heart a little that people are relying on it less.)
So far, my personal favorite combo-hoser is Thalia. She's excellent in that role and has a lot of application in other matchups. She's made UWR and UW Control a little easier for me because she makes a lot of their cards less efficient if she can stick. Still not a match up I like sitting across from, but she's pushed it in my favor in testing. Since everything you put in that slot (save an artifact) is going to be boltable anyway, the one toughness isn't much of a factor. Not to mention she's the best beater of the bunch.
I agree- especially on the first point. The ability to "go off" is what separates this deck from hatebears or Death and Taxes.
I love Thalia, its between her and spellskite as the best creature hosers, with Leyline of sanctity up there too.
Yeah, I don't think I could part ways with the part of this deck that makes people fear you, but I understand the desire for a more consistent finish. I do worry about the people who are looking to win by dropping or flipping Thune if Jeskai Ascendancy stays being a thing, though. Not that we can't beat that deck, but I think it could push people into a faster Modern where Soul Sisters can't compete if it can't get Serra Ascendant airborn turn 2.
Spellskite is excellent if you're cutting Martyr and don't need things to be mono-white, definitely. I keep Leyline of Sanctity and a combo specific hatebear in my sideboard, right now it's 2 Thalia and 2 Leyline, and I've been pretty satisfied with it. Leyline does work against Jund just as much as it does against combo and laughs at any deck that wants to Thoughtseize you T1.
a) Boggles
b) Twin
c) RDW
d) Infect or shotgun style decks
e) Affinity
Vs. boogles going off with martyr and ascendant won't actually win it for us very often- they outrace it with say a rancor, a coronet and a pro from critters enchantment. Once they use the armor on top of that style of stuff we are done for- so this deck needs a lot of hosing.
With RDW there is a high chance we do not get the martry life as their deck is very set on stopping lifegain, esp post board. The skite is very strong vs it. It is one of our good matches whatever, esp if you use Aurioks as I do.
With infect our lifetotal is irrelevant- they win t4 if uninterrupted- esp if they run crusaders main- so this is a nuttily good card.
Vs affinity the ability to block an etched once with plating or more if no pump is about is really strong. This plus the ability to stop a arcbound trick is probably greater than the loss of martyr life.
Of course Thalia does a similar job to skite -not quite as good vs infect and boggles- but much better in other matches- eg tron. There are so many options we have. As long as we run interactive sideboar cards they deck should prosper.
I have fetched a late game martyr to win - but normally it arises via an already strong board position. At least with Thune we can make good use of one ones later in the game.
So generally these cards together have been no much of a problem for me.
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
I think it's UW/UWR control. It's almost unwinnable game one due to their abundance of counters and removal (and the ability to Snap them back) and Gideon is a major pain. What makes it worse is that most of the common sideboard cards we use only shut down part of their deck, so you need a hand full of them to make things happen. Rest in Peace shuts down Snapcaster, Suppression Field hurt any walkers they run, their fetches and their manlands. Auriok Champion, if she's not in your main, becomes very important.
R1- Insta reanimator-
G1- I get slow beats, but go off t5 or so via archangel.
G2- I get to 30 odd life- he has to go off- and combos all the way via TT Breach, stopping with 8 cards left in the library but RIP is down. Sadly his next opportunity to win via EMMY can only get me to one with him dead on the swing back by a couple of tokens, so he has to do it via Grissel blocking mid combat- and I have path in hand for it.
2-0
R2 - timewalk.
G1 he takes literally high double figures extra turns. I concede only when I am satisfied he can't win g3 If I win G2.
G2 he is up against it, I get to swing needing a land for the win via archangel and a life gain off martyr. I get distracted by continuing the conversation I had during the 25 mins of extra turning g1- forget to draw the extra card off howling mine and lose because of it. Next card was the land I wanted.
Grr.
0-2
R3
Mono G aggro
I lose g1. He just goes first, gets the nuts. I gain stupid life but his scooze wins it eventually- I can never draw archangel or tokens and have to do it with Sistas and Grunts- which suck vs Scooze.
G2 goes the normal way for aggro, and g3 we have no time for. I thought he could have scooped earlier once I got ascendants online, but then so could I game 1.
1-1
R4 Jeskai Storm standard deck version I believe.
Lose g1- he goes off for ten mins plus- apologising. I explain about the timewalk experience and I concede correctly time wise.
G2- I just sneak- eventually resolving Linvala. Spellskite saves the day t2 buying time.
G3 I get RIP for delve, Spellskite for enchantments, Linvala for mana men and Aura of silence for everything enchantment based. I win- that is a lot of hate.
2-0
Thoughts- I am adding one Thalia to the board and one to the mainp- especially after bob's comments above on Thalia. They play awfully with procession, but are just needed for those combo and USA matches. Two grunts remain.
Incidentally USA is improved somewhat with Grunt main- it hoses the Snapcaster's ability whilst not taking up a card with RIP which fails to do damage. Gideon is a pain for sure, but not all decks run it and sometimes it is just a super fog. The key to beating Usa is simple for me- you just have to go off via Martyr and from there make sure that when they tap out you can follow with a minimum Procession/Hotp or Ranger. Going off is the key. Skite is not bad against it either- saving activated Serra or Archangels. I will drop t1 Martyr vs them G2- gambling there is no bolt. Windbrisk and Ranger are the card advantage cards, but the longer the game goes the more they win- so I think it is all about the combo and Grunts and protecting them with Skite. Archangels and sistas route rarely does it for me.
Has anyone ever tried to do anything with Essence Warden? I could see how 3 versions of the same card is a lot of redundancy, but it opens up another color without getting rid of what makes the deck tick.
Say, Voracious Wurm (Stacking triggers correctly, of course) and Ageless Entity.
It even opens up the Spike Feeder/Archangel of Thune combo.
Honestly, I don't know how much you would need to lean on Procession with all of the beats you would have. Grunt, Thune and Thalia seems like a pretty brutal combination of the best parts of hatebears for us and could make up for the damage the Spirits would do. Definitely worth some testing.
The general consensus is that 7-9 sisters effects is the right number and that adding Essence Warden would just be overkill. Ageless Entity is a little too high as far as mana cost and Voracious Wurm is just a not as consistent Pridemate, who we have enough of in the deck. Spike Feeder is new to the conversation and may be worth testing with Thune.
I think if you go for the green splash - which I will say many people have hated in the past - you want to completely ditch Martyr/Serra and go for one of the Thune focused builds. I would lean less towards big beaters like Voracious Wurm and Ageless Entity and more towards tempo/combo cards like Kitchen Finks or Spike Feeder. Finks could be really hilarious with Thune and I wouldn't mind seeing the results from Spike Feeder testing.
Someone needs to cut me off of Gatherer....
And a Roiling Horror.....
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
Core cards in some builds are actively bad vs UWR- hawks and pridemates. My meta has some USA and I hate losing to it and so took the weakest aspect of the deck vs control out first. The former because they are slow and cannot put early pressure needed to win the game. The latter encourage over commitment into wrath effects.
I also think that combating planeswalkers with O ring never works.
Cards/strategies that are good vs UWR:
Honor+ Spec proc
Ascendant into martyr early on.
Windbrisk+ proc
Archangel is ok vs it but is great as a surprise via windbrisk. They do not resolve often for me.
Sometimes tec edge can steal a color for a turn.
If you play with cavern then Ranger of Eos + cavern is good at restocking.
Strategies that are bad vs URW:
pridemate + lots of men.
hawks
Brave the elements is not stellar either as it is an awful topdeck post wrath.
Board cards that hurt it
Thalia
Spellskite sometimes for protecting ascendant when activated
Maybe a sword though I doubt it.
I of course like Grunt.
Good work drmarkkb.
With your new list the win average against control and combo decks has improved? I believe that's the way for our decks. Archangel of Thune for me has a fixed place in the main deck, with she the deck became strong on the late game and is a excellent top deck.
About Thalia I will try one or two in the main. What will you remove to put the Thalia?
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
I think Thalia is the best sideboard option for us. Thalia is good against UW, Storm, Jeskai Combo, Burn, Urzatron.
My sideboard will become this (when my cards arrive):
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (seriously thinking put one or two in the main)
2x Rest in Peace
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Stony Silence
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Brave the Elements (I have two in the main)
1x Aura of Silence or Pithing Needle (currently using Pithing Needle)
UWx Control is my nightmare too. Long time no match against it, but my deck is changing constantly to improve this match. The cards I'm using in the main are: 3x Auriok Champion, 2x Brave the Elements. Side in: 3x Thalia, 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 1x Eidolon of Rhetoric and 1x Brave the Elements. Side Out: 2x Archangel of Thune, 2x Plains, 3x Path to Exile (if it is UWr Heavy Control)
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge