Like I said up there, it's still pretty hard to gauge. They haven't been showing up consistently enough in the matches I want them, and have a habit of coming up when the graveyard isn't super relevant. When they stick, they stick amazingly, though. They're far more consistent than Pridemate ever was, in that sense.
My apologies i missed that. Could see a few uses for that in addition to main board hate for a lot of decks. I'll have to grab a playset for testing though thanks for the info.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
It's getting a raw deal, because it keeps showing up in bunches in matchups I don't need it and not showing up in matches where I could really use it. (I only drew one in three matches with Jund last night, and it ate a Terminate immediately). I will say it and Auriok Champion made Jund a lot more winnable in my testing last night.
As far as Weathered Wayfarer, it makes a ton of sense if I throw Windbrisk into the mix, which I'm debating doing after some extended testing. I'm starting to see what you mean about Squadron Hawk. While it's really, really nice to constantly have a hand, they're still 1/1s and are super vulnerable if Honor isn't on the board. The more I think about them, the more I realize I only really like them when they're chumping (which just about anything can do, though they chump better because they can do it in the air.) or when Honor is out, which is when I like any creature, pretty much. I'm wondering if I should get rid of them for some Archangels and Windbrisks to support the Angels. I don't know where else I would cut to make those happen. If I did that, I'd like to find some room for Wayfarer, but I don't know where I'd do it.
Quick recap of some of last night's stuff, where the field at my local store has drastically shifted into "Everything we hate playing against, the meta." (2 Jund, 2 UWR, 3 Combo decks and I got lucky with my matchups and still couldn't scrape a round win, going 0-2-1.
Jund (1-2, 0-1)
Game one is living the dream, as I empty my hand of sisters and Spectral Procession to send a Serra into the air before my opponent could remove it and force him to scoop. Game 2 is one of the grindiest (even for Jund) matches I've ever had, where I patiently chip away at him with flyer after flyer to get him down pretty far. He windmill slams a Batterskull down to try to get back in, and I top deck an Auriok Champion in response, which makes me think I have it, but he's able to stabilize at two and get Batterskull onto a Thrun, the Last Troll, negating my protection and eventually carving me up. Game three we go back and forth for a while, smacking each other hard (him with Goyfs and Treetops, me with Squadron Hawks + Honor) but he eventually wins the race with only a few points of life left.
D&T (1-1-1, 0-1-1)
Game one is a nice grind where I eventually rip 2 Honor of the Pures to make his creatures into chumps. Game two he gets a Sword of Light and Shadow down incredibly early and spends the whole game plunking me and gaining life. I was desperately searching for my Sundering Growths which never came, and should have scooped sooner to get to game three. They call time as we're shuffling up for game 3 and both of us know the other can't seal it in turns, so we shake hands.
Mardu Tokens (0-2, 0-2-1)
This was a disaster. Game one he's able to get Intangible Virtue down early and send a huge number of spirits after me, ripping through my unprotected Squad Hawks. Game two I keep Plains, Ghost Quarter, Squadron Hawk X 2, Jotun Grunt, Sundering Growth, Honor of the Pure and prepare to rip him up, just to draw no lands. I get a second Growth and a second Honor in my draws and am able to work him with one 3/3 Squadron Hawk, but I'm forced to blow up my Plains to Sundering Growth his virtue (still don't know if this was the right call), which stops me from getting more of a board presence. He's eventually able to get by with his army of 1/1 flyers.
So, after all of that smack talk about hating Sundering Growth, I spend all night thanking my lucky stars I had it. Too bad it didn't show up quickly enough in that D&T match, haha.
Some awkward matches in anyone's books.
Hawk...well in proc they use hawk to make Mr Martyr bigger value.....just like we can.
They use a single Hawk to turn into two to get Mistveil on line, as we can. But Mistveil is ideal with their plan- 8 removal spells, now recyclable, plus landkill. It is a lot of stuff to control the board with.
If they run kami they can have an end game lock of recurring fogs. Going long is better for them than us.
What do we get out of a Mistveil? We have less search effects even with Hawks if we run them. Grunt makes Mistveil worse too. If we don't run hawk Mistveil is pointless for sure, so it is the whole package we need to consider....
The main thing is the hawks chump and rescue bad hands. We play an early game that 80% of the time is aggressive, more on the play.
Does our plan involve chumping ever? I think yes vs zoo and affinity.
Our Jund plan is to overwhelm everytime. Proc can do that if it combos with Martyr, but it can just lay hawks, hit land, and Path and Wrath the first few creatures they lay. Chumping fits in with that. Recycling hawks is good as it helps till they reset. Ditto RG tron- Proc draws Ghost qs and can durdle till it combos as long as it nails the lands.
I don't like arguing against hawk, but the fact that proc runs zero pumpers tells us about their plan. I think a better model for us is tokens....would hawk make a token deck?
Historically hawk was a star in caw blade, which is a control deck.
I can speak highly of Archangel and Windbrisk in some number, but the right number is anyone's guess......
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It won't displace path. A flexi-reprisal seems interesting. But most of the best removal in the format is one cc for critters..bolt and path. Two cc buys uncounterable permanent kill with 3cc or less in rock colours..by comparison I want a bit more for two cc. If it were critter or disenchant with restriction I would be in like a shot. If it were exile or protection it would be better or all critters gaining indestructible. Pro would be especially nice as you can stop the infect and twin combos with it. As it is I don't think it offers enough. Also if you play Thalia main or side the extra mana makes it very bad rather than borderline. A path at two or honor at three still is not the worst deal. Stance at 3 would be.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I tasted many tournaments numbers any cards and I think that this is fine decklist for me and my metagame (Figure of Destiny is very solid card in time when I have low HP and activation abilities are very good and many times help me)
What do you think about decklist and what dou you think about new version where I combination old classic decklist with new slowest decklist with Archangel of Thune I think that it can be a decent compromise.
I would suggest adding a Wayfarer, a single Mistveil Plains for a regular one, (for infini-hawks- can be fetched off quarter, also recycling GQ or PTE which). I have considered a Lawkeeper for a while too. The Wayfarer is tutorable, and can tutor up GQs sometimes which is important vs Pod and its team pumping lands and Tron and its cheating lands.......
I think Pridemate is just not good in a build like this, certainly not without a couple of Brave the Elements. It is better in Norrin lists, but even then it is weaker than you would think as so many matches with Norrin end up with Porphyros wins.
This may sound silly, but try this. Just play pridemate as a six/six for 2 mana when it comes down. Try it against Pod, Delver, RG tron and Jund/k, Affinity. Now that is a hell of a deal-6/6 for 2 with grow-with-lifegain. But against those decks even starting as a six/six it still does not cut the mustard. I am serious-Pod sets up ground defenses, chumps a couple of times with finks type men, and eventually kills it and controls the board. Tron hits O stone, All is Dust, Karn or Wurmcoil if they have the tron (or lose if they don't), Delver just blocks it ad infinitum with tokens (although the match up is obviously still good), Jund just controls the board and Decays/Pacts/Pulses, Junk does similar but with Path, affinity just infects in the air or plays etched champion and ignores it. I have actually tried playing it as a 6/6 when it starts, and it is surprising how often a ground based huge monster does nothing against the top decks. I am not making a "dies to removal" argument, but a "can this be chumped a couple of turns and dealt with". It is more true now that Rhino is about. When you compare it to Spectral Procession, Ascendant, Thune you realise that most of our damage is done in the air, or by sheer weight of numbers.
Thune is magnificent- a threat in its own right, but more importantly with Thune down and a life gainer it is a permanent overrun. Even on its own it grows like pridemate.
I like your evolution of the deck.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I'd like your thoughts on a deck like this. It's looking a lot less gimmicky without Serra Ascendant and Martyr of Sands, but the deck trades the potentially powerful start for a lot stronger endgame. The Sisters-engine powers up the Pridemates and Archangels, supported by the token generators like Brimaz and Spectral Procession. We also have Honor of the Pure and Gavony township to ensure that our tokens are powerful even without the Archangel triggers.
This is just a rough brainstorm, I haven't actually tried this.
Try it!
4 Pridemate and 4 BTE sounds much better than 4 Pridemate 0 BTE. If you are going to grow them they need a way to get through. BTE is not a long game card though- it can be a dead late game topdeck post sweepers.
Finks would synergise with Township and make the deck better vs Wrath......
You have a solid anti red feel about the list. Pyroclasm won't worry you too much.
The Sister endgame will still not be as good an endgame as Tron (more so with just two landkill), no matter what we do or what "Sistas" we decide merit inclusion they have the Emrakul and board wipes, so it becomes a question of how fast your clock is and what disruption you can pack, especially post board.....
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I'm not huge on the Gavony plan, since I think it's very mana heavy, but I love the core of the deck. Definitely interested in seeing how your testing goes.
I'm a bit disappointed with the result and I wanted to share with you some impressions about certain cards in the deck: Soul's Attendant and her sister are easily removed by Electrolyze. I think it would be wise to run 4 copies of Auriok Champion together with 2 Soul's Attendant Ajani's Pridemate: this guy is the biggest disappointment I'm having so far. It can grow big but it never goes through when you need him unless you spend a Brave the Elements. I dont know what card could take its spot though any suggestions? Squadron Hawk: I know it's good to refill your hand and to power the effect of our Martyr of Sands but once again it just proved to be a champ blocker and nothing more.
I was wondering what card I shall bring in beside the probably must have Auriok Champion. Since mostly of our damage is done through creatures with flying, I was wondering whether it would be a nice idea to run 3 copies of Archangel of Thune. She's a monster and if I can manage to dig for it and play it just for 1 mana well I'll probably be in a good spot. However if I play her is it still worth to run Martyr of Sands?
Finally I was wondering if I should run Lingering Souls: however I wont be able to use it to its full potential since I'm missing black and I don't think it's worth. What's your opinion guys?
I'm sorry for the long post and I thank you all in advice!
Have a nice evening,
Christian
Honestly, I never understood why people don't run the full 4 Martyr's. She is one of the best cards in the deck. What makes Soul Sisters so powerful is the ridiculous start of Turn 1 Serra, Turn 2 Martyr. If you run less than four of either you are severely reducing the number of easy wins you can get. Most opponents will just scoop if you pull that off.
I'm a bit disappointed with the result and I wanted to share with you some impressions about certain cards in the deck: Soul's Attendant and her sister are easily removed by Electrolyze. I think it would be wise to run 4 copies of Auriok Champion together with 2 Soul's Attendant Ajani's Pridemate: this guy is the biggest disappointment I'm having so far. It can grow big but it never goes through when you need him unless you spend a Brave the Elements. I dont know what card could take its spot though any suggestions?
I want so bad for Pridemate to be good but you are right, without evasion he is often very underwhelming. I've even lost games with a 20/20 Pridemate on the field simply because I couldn't get him to connect.
Squadron Hawk: I know it's good to refill your hand and to power the effect of our Martyr of Sands but once again it just proved to be a champ blocker and nothing more.
I would say don't give up on it yet. With the anthems it is awesome and has won me as many games as Serra.
I was wondering what card I shall bring in beside the probably must have Auriok Champion. Since mostly of our damage is done through creatures with flying, I was wondering whether it would be a nice idea to run 3 copies of Archangel of Thune. She's a monster and if I can manage to dig for it and play it just for 1 mana well I'll probably be in a good spot. However if I play her is it still worth to run Martyr of Sands?
I'm beginning to think that Champion is a deck staple and should probably replace one of the sisters. She doesn't play as friendly with Ranger and can make awkward decisions when considering what to do on turn 2 such as laying Squawks, Anthems, etc. You really need to be aware of what your opponent is playing and and what you think your Turn 3 play will be. If you are going to play Procession turn 3 then Champion is a good turn 2. If you are going to play an Anthem then maybe you want to drop your Squawks first. Just a thought. Also, I have no idea what you are talking about with Thune being able to be searched for or played for one mana. How would you do that? Also, how does Thune make Martyr worse?
Finally I was wondering if I should run Lingering Souls: however I wont be able to use it to its full potential since I'm missing black and I don't think it's worth. What's your opinion guys?
I actually run a W/B version of Soul Sisters. I run a pretty standard list but swapped Ranger of Eos for Orzhov Charm (increases interactivity and brings back Serra or Martyr) and Procession out for Lingering Souls. Without black in the deck Spectral is far and away better than Souls. Let me ask you this, if you are in all white then why would you ever play 3 mana for 2 tokens when you could pay 3 mana for 3? Without the Flashback Lingering Souls is strictly worse than Spectral Procession.
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Hello alphag thank you for your answer.
The thing about thune is that I hope I can dig for it with Windbrisk Heights and then play it for 1 mana after attacking with 3 creatures.
^ a good player will never let you activate Windbrask Heights. They will even Bolt your tokens so you cants activate the Heights. I like the Heights as a backup plan.
Is Ranger of Eos still such a good card? Most of the list run 4x or 3x... In my experience, the card does not have the impact a 4cmc creatures should have 90% of the time. Currently trying 2x Hero of Bladehold in place of 2x Ranger and they are excellent at putting pressure and activating windbrisk on their own.
Is Ranger of Eos still such a good card? Most of the list run 4x or 3x... In my experience, the card does not have the impact a 4cmc creatures should have 90% of the time. Currently trying 2x Hero of Bladehold in place of 2x Ranger and they are excellent at putting pressure and activating windbrisk on their own.
Hero of Bladehold is okay and can be second plan when we havnt 30+life for Serra but I think that Archangel of Thune can be better but need any sisters for advantage. I thunk that Hero is better when is alone on battlefield mainly when we have any Honor of the Pure
I am not talking about running Heroes instead of Archangel. My idea is to run both, replacing any number of Eos for Heroes. I am currently running 4 archangels, 2 Heroes and 1 Eos. What I'm trying to say is that we need threats that if not responded make the match fall in our favour. Archangel is one, but relying only on her is not enough. This is my current list:
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
4 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
26 CREATURES
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Soul Warden
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Soul's Attendant
3 Norin the Wary
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Auriok Champion
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Return to the Ranks
4 OTHER SPELLS
4 Genesis Chamber
2 Electrickery
2 Wear / Tear
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Mark of Asylum
2 Blood Moon
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Modern: RW Burn
Finished in 3rd/4th place. I just thought it looked interesting and some people would want to check it out.
Modern: RW Burn
Some awkward matches in anyone's books.
Hawk...well in proc they use hawk to make Mr Martyr bigger value.....just like we can.
They use a single Hawk to turn into two to get Mistveil on line, as we can. But Mistveil is ideal with their plan- 8 removal spells, now recyclable, plus landkill. It is a lot of stuff to control the board with.
If they run kami they can have an end game lock of recurring fogs. Going long is better for them than us.
What do we get out of a Mistveil? We have less search effects even with Hawks if we run them. Grunt makes Mistveil worse too. If we don't run hawk Mistveil is pointless for sure, so it is the whole package we need to consider....
The main thing is the hawks chump and rescue bad hands. We play an early game that 80% of the time is aggressive, more on the play.
Does our plan involve chumping ever? I think yes vs zoo and affinity.
Our Jund plan is to overwhelm everytime. Proc can do that if it combos with Martyr, but it can just lay hawks, hit land, and Path and Wrath the first few creatures they lay. Chumping fits in with that. Recycling hawks is good as it helps till they reset. Ditto RG tron- Proc draws Ghost qs and can durdle till it combos as long as it nails the lands.
I don't like arguing against hawk, but the fact that proc runs zero pumpers tells us about their plan. I think a better model for us is tokens....would hawk make a token deck?
Historically hawk was a star in caw blade, which is a control deck.
I can speak highly of Archangel and Windbrisk in some number, but the right number is anyone's guess......
I would suggest adding a Wayfarer, a single Mistveil Plains for a regular one, (for infini-hawks- can be fetched off quarter, also recycling GQ or PTE which). I have considered a Lawkeeper for a while too. The Wayfarer is tutorable, and can tutor up GQs sometimes which is important vs Pod and its team pumping lands and Tron and its cheating lands.......
I think Pridemate is just not good in a build like this, certainly not without a couple of Brave the Elements. It is better in Norrin lists, but even then it is weaker than you would think as so many matches with Norrin end up with Porphyros wins.
This may sound silly, but try this. Just play pridemate as a six/six for 2 mana when it comes down. Try it against Pod, Delver, RG tron and Jund/k, Affinity. Now that is a hell of a deal-6/6 for 2 with grow-with-lifegain. But against those decks even starting as a six/six it still does not cut the mustard. I am serious-Pod sets up ground defenses, chumps a couple of times with finks type men, and eventually kills it and controls the board. Tron hits O stone, All is Dust, Karn or Wurmcoil if they have the tron (or lose if they don't), Delver just blocks it ad infinitum with tokens (although the match up is obviously still good), Jund just controls the board and Decays/Pacts/Pulses, Junk does similar but with Path, affinity just infects in the air or plays etched champion and ignores it. I have actually tried playing it as a 6/6 when it starts, and it is surprising how often a ground based huge monster does nothing against the top decks. I am not making a "dies to removal" argument, but a "can this be chumped a couple of turns and dealt with". It is more true now that Rhino is about. When you compare it to Spectral Procession, Ascendant, Thune you realise that most of our damage is done in the air, or by sheer weight of numbers.
Thune is magnificent- a threat in its own right, but more importantly with Thune down and a life gainer it is a permanent overrun. Even on its own it grows like pridemate.
I like your evolution of the deck.
Try it!
4 Pridemate and 4 BTE sounds much better than 4 Pridemate 0 BTE. If you are going to grow them they need a way to get through. BTE is not a long game card though- it can be a dead late game topdeck post sweepers.
Finks would synergise with Township and make the deck better vs Wrath......
You have a solid anti red feel about the list. Pyroclasm won't worry you too much.
The Sister endgame will still not be as good an endgame as Tron (more so with just two landkill), no matter what we do or what "Sistas" we decide merit inclusion they have the Emrakul and board wipes, so it becomes a question of how fast your clock is and what disruption you can pack, especially post board.....
Here is my deck list
3 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Auriok Champion
3 Martyr of Sands
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Serra Ascendant
2 Soul Warden
2 Soul's Attendant
4 Squadron Hawk
1 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Honor of the Pure
instant 4
4 Path to Exile
planeswalker 1
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
sorcery 4
4 Spectral Procession
land 21
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Forbidding Watchtower
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Mistveil Plains
6 Plains
3 Windbrisk Heights
No need for SB since it's all meta dependent.
So I placed 4th place out of 13 people at my local shop.
The Elspeth was just an experiment, when I get the 4th Ranger, she's going out.
Ajani's Pridemate is the weakest card in the deck, flat out. I'm thinking of adding 4 Archangel of Thune and upping the land just for her.
Auriok Champion is the beast, never play less then 4. She's ****s the meta right now.
Forbidding Watchtower is a test right now, as a late game mana sink. It's alright, hurts that it comes into play tapped.
So, my questions...
How is Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in the deck? I was think a "1" of in the deck.
The mighty Twin deck, how do we beat them? All their creatures are Blue. Maybe something that hates on Blue...in White?
I'm back from a small tournament (20 people) and I arrived 10th thus missing the top 8. Here is the list I used today:
2 Ghost Quarter
16 Plains
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Soul Warden
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Ajani's Pridemate
3 Ranger of Eos
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Spectral Procession
4 Honor of the Pure
I'm a bit disappointed with the result and I wanted to share with you some impressions about certain cards in the deck:
Soul's Attendant and her sister are easily removed by Electrolyze. I think it would be wise to run 4 copies of Auriok Champion together with 2 Soul's Attendant
Ajani's Pridemate: this guy is the biggest disappointment I'm having so far. It can grow big but it never goes through when you need him unless you spend a Brave the Elements. I dont know what card could take its spot though any suggestions?
Squadron Hawk: I know it's good to refill your hand and to power the effect of our Martyr of Sands but once again it just proved to be a champ blocker and nothing more.
I was wondering what card I shall bring in beside the probably must have Auriok Champion. Since mostly of our damage is done through creatures with flying, I was wondering whether it would be a nice idea to run 3 copies of Archangel of Thune. She's a monster and if I can manage to dig for it and play it just for 1 mana well I'll probably be in a good spot. However if I play her is it still worth to run Martyr of Sands?
Finally I was wondering if I should run Lingering Souls: however I wont be able to use it to its full potential since I'm missing black and I don't think it's worth. What's your opinion guys?
I'm sorry for the long post and I thank you all in advice!
Have a nice evening,
Christian
Honestly, I never understood why people don't run the full 4 Martyr's. She is one of the best cards in the deck. What makes Soul Sisters so powerful is the ridiculous start of Turn 1 Serra, Turn 2 Martyr. If you run less than four of either you are severely reducing the number of easy wins you can get. Most opponents will just scoop if you pull that off.
I want so bad for Pridemate to be good but you are right, without evasion he is often very underwhelming. I've even lost games with a 20/20 Pridemate on the field simply because I couldn't get him to connect.
I would say don't give up on it yet. With the anthems it is awesome and has won me as many games as Serra.
I'm beginning to think that Champion is a deck staple and should probably replace one of the sisters. She doesn't play as friendly with Ranger and can make awkward decisions when considering what to do on turn 2 such as laying Squawks, Anthems, etc. You really need to be aware of what your opponent is playing and and what you think your Turn 3 play will be. If you are going to play Procession turn 3 then Champion is a good turn 2. If you are going to play an Anthem then maybe you want to drop your Squawks first. Just a thought. Also, I have no idea what you are talking about with Thune being able to be searched for or played for one mana. How would you do that? Also, how does Thune make Martyr worse?
I actually run a W/B version of Soul Sisters. I run a pretty standard list but swapped Ranger of Eos for Orzhov Charm (increases interactivity and brings back Serra or Martyr) and Procession out for Lingering Souls. Without black in the deck Spectral is far and away better than Souls. Let me ask you this, if you are in all white then why would you ever play 3 mana for 2 tokens when you could pay 3 mana for 3? Without the Flashback Lingering Souls is strictly worse than Spectral Procession.
List here for anyone interested:
10 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Godless Shrine
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Path to Exile
3 Orzhov Charm
4 Lingering Souls
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The thing about thune is that I hope I can dig for it with Windbrisk Heights and then play it for 1 mana after attacking with 3 creatures.
I am not talking about running Heroes instead of Archangel. My idea is to run both, replacing any number of Eos for Heroes. I am currently running 4 archangels, 2 Heroes and 1 Eos. What I'm trying to say is that we need threats that if not responded make the match fall in our favour. Archangel is one, but relying only on her is not enough. This is my current list:
4x Soul's attendant
4x Soul warden
4x Serra ascendant
2x Auriok champion
4x Ajani's pridemate
1x Ranger of Eos
2x Hero of Bladehold
4x Archangel of thune
4x Path to exile
2x Brave the elements
4x Spectral procession
Lands
17x Plains
3x Winbrisk heights
2x Cavern of souls
1x Horizon canopy
1x Dryad militant
2x Burrenton forge-tender
2x Rest in peace
3x Stony silence
2x Return to the ranks
2x Aven mindcensor
2x Eidolon of rethoric