I was wondering... Enchantments can be a big issues for Grixis. We play just those colors that would rather see enchantments be removed from the whole TCG. Blood Moon
Guys, the answer to Blood Moon is Chromatic Lantern. It not only totally invalidates Blood Moon but it also accelerates you into your higher CMC spells, like Cruel Ultimatum. I currently run two in my sideboard, but it's entirely possible it's worth playing in the main. I had a match against Affinity where he brought in Blood Moon and I had Chromatic Lantern. The Blood Moon shut off all his manlands, while I was tapping for whatever color I wanted and the game was a blowout. Forget terrible situational cards like Kiora's Dismissal. Try Chromatic Lantern and laugh at their three mana do-nothing enchantment.
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Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
So, I've seen Elixir of Immortality on a few lists throughout this whole thread but there hasn't been any real discussion on it. I have used Elixir in every control deck since it was released and never regretted the decision (even squeezing it into the 61 slot in some occasions). I have never been sad to draw it, play it, or crack it. I have not yet used it in Cruel Control but maybe it's worth it.
At the very least it nets us 5 life (which can be game-changing) and at the very most, we reshuffle all of the counters, burn, and draw spells that we didn't snap back, and we reshuffle all of our dead snapcasters, as well as netting us 5 life. I think it's overall cost of 3 is negligible enough that mid to late game spending the mana will be inconsequential. And sometimes it will just save us from imminent death (if only for a turn).
What do you guys think?
Conflicts with snapcaster, in my opition it is not worth it.
Don't wanna jinx it but seems like we might get some veeeery good results for our good ol' deck this weekend. Props to that and the people who believe in the deck!
Don't wanna jinx it but seems like we might get some veeeery good results for our good ol' deck this weekend. Props to that and the people who believe in the deck!
any cruel controls in day 2 minneapolis? havent been following up, would be cool to see some results!
Conflicts with snapcaster, in my opition it is not worth it.
I see what you're saying but I don't think that's a good enough reason to not consider it. Snapcaster is important and vital to this deck but it's not as though all we do is cast Snapcasters all day (though that would be nice). I'm not talking playing 4 of these guys. That's absolutely not worth it. For the record, I've had plenty of grindy matches where I've run out of Snapcasters. Also, I'd rather buy myself a turn with that extra five life and potentially miss snapping a bolt than just die. Just been giving it some thought and I don't want to be quick to rule out a potentially handy piece of tech. Sometimes control decks just run out of steam. When that happens, Elixir can fix 'er! That's my sales pitch, anyway, lol.
I don't have any real playtesting with an Elixir of Immortality, however I can say there have been quite a few times even just a shuffle of my library would help out for just 2 mana. I really think it's a great card for the mirror match or UW control matchup. And I can agree that I have lost a lot of games simply because of the 2-5 damage I manage to do to myself with the shock lands, fetch lands and thoughtseizes. I think it's a worthwhile suggestion and one I want to start trying out.
Also, if you have a mystical teachings in hand in late game it could prove to be pretty handy if the cards you need are in your graveyard and you don't have any snapcasters. Of course I'm speaking extremely situationally and against a swarm the board creature deck or Melira Pod I feel it's too slow for the lack of interaction it has with the opponent. But for the grind out draw-go control mirror-match up, I think it's a great...card up your sleeve (sorry I had to) to just tip the scales in your favor.
I was one of those decks that didn't make day 2. Finished 1-2-3, then dropped.
First match was against GW auras, and I was nervous and made 2 really bad mistakes. I held onto a AotG and bolt thinking I could sweep next turn and keep the bolt for face damage, then he proceeded to load up his dude (who couldn't attack yet) with about 6 enchantments so I missed my window of opportunity for the bolt. So, should have bolted it asap. Just a poor decision on my part, I usually get that right.
Results:
0-2 against GW auras
1-1-1 against Delver Tempo
0-2 against American Control
2-0 against another American Control variation (he made a couple mistakes)
1-1-1 against Tron
0-1-1 against UW
Basically it was a counter spell battle for 4 of my 6 matches, which is just crappy luck. I only got to cast cruel 5 times, and twice it was a last ditch effort to avoid a draw and I played into 2 counters. I suspected the counter was coming, but I didn't have any other play at the time.
I went in expecting to see a lot of pod, twin, affinity and burn. Didn't face a single one (though they were very prevalent). Meh, it is what it is. Some poor play on my part and bad luck in matchups. Was a fun experience though.
Props for being honest and posting your results, what was the list you played and how did the matches transpire. What were some of the main reasons for losing? Issues with mana? Dead cards? wrong sideboarding options? How would you change it to win next time?
I think there are a few main reasons I did poorly.
#1 Play mistakes, which I find odd because when playing with friends or when I play at my local game store I don't usually make that many stupid mistakes. Along with the mistakes made in the first match against the GW Auras, twice I didn't pay attention to my notes and played right into a mana leak and path to exile on my tar pit even though I knew they had them in their hands. I also blew a Hero's Downfall on an Ulamogg in the Tron matchup because I didn't read the card and notice the "indestructable" part. So yeah, more mistakes than I usually make.
#2 I was only able to cast Batterskull and Vendilion Clique once each in 6 matches, so 2 cards that provide more punch just didn't show up when I needed them. There were a couple games where I didn't see any Ultimatums and had plenty of land to cast them. Maybe I was playing to cautious at times too since I knew I facing a control deck. I didn't want to play aggressively unless I was sure they didn't have an answer in their hands, but a couple times I just went for the Ultimatum to try to avoid a draw but they got countered.
#3 I don't know how others do against other control decks, but I hate the match up so much. Its just a grindy counter spell game, and cruel control doesn't have access to things like Lighting Helix and Colonnade, which provide a bit more punch. Two of my friends who went with me played 6 matches each as well and didn't see any control decks... apparently I got all the control matchups.
I'm going to experiment with the dual Jace build and see how it goes. Apparently others are having success with it. Oh, and going to work on making less dumb mistakes
Things learned:
Make less stupid mistakes
Counterflux was an ace sideboard option for the day though. Used them several times.
Duress is also great in the sideboard. It hits a lot of cards, and I don't lose 2 life doing so.
I'm going to run 2 Slaughter Games now. The only time I cast it I pulled 4 Karn's from a deck. I still lost to Ulamogg though, but it definitely puts a kink in their plans.
I've found Control to be fairly beatable. Colonnades die to Consume the Meek just as quickly as everything else, and we generally win the counter wars.
just a thought, can we maybe use pack rat as a 1 or 2 of in our main list as an alternate wincon? it gets out of control pretty fast if not taken care of, can chump and clock our opponent. i will replace my 2 jaces with pack rats and see how they perform
I've found Control to be fairly beatable. Colonnades die to Consume the Meek just as quickly as everything else, and we generally win the counter wars.
That wasn't my experience. Maybe that's why some people run 2 Meeks. I guess I was t getting the cards I needed at the time either, eg terminate is better than meek when it comes to cmc, but alas, I didn't have them when I needed.
I run 1 Meek / 1 Damnation main at the moment and have been happy with the split. To be clear, neither are especially good in the match up, but Meek is at least an out to Colonnade. Maybe I've just had good luck vs. RWU Control, but I feel like I'm generally a more focused list with a higher percentage chance of having a counter when I need it.
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Guys, the answer to Blood Moon is Chromatic Lantern. It not only totally invalidates Blood Moon but it also accelerates you into your higher CMC spells, like Cruel Ultimatum. I currently run two in my sideboard, but it's entirely possible it's worth playing in the main. I had a match against Affinity where he brought in Blood Moon and I had Chromatic Lantern. The Blood Moon shut off all his manlands, while I was tapping for whatever color I wanted and the game was a blowout. Forget terrible situational cards like Kiora's Dismissal. Try Chromatic Lantern and laugh at their three mana do-nothing enchantment.
Conflicts with snapcaster, in my opition it is not worth it.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
any cruel controls in day 2 minneapolis? havent been following up, would be cool to see some results!
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
only 1 made day 2.
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpmin14/welcome#2
Grand Arbiter
Omnath
Skittles
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I'm hoping we get to see it on camera though, be nice to see different decks get screen time!
Grand Arbiter
Omnath
Skittles
I see what you're saying but I don't think that's a good enough reason to not consider it. Snapcaster is important and vital to this deck but it's not as though all we do is cast Snapcasters all day (though that would be nice). I'm not talking playing 4 of these guys. That's absolutely not worth it. For the record, I've had plenty of grindy matches where I've run out of Snapcasters. Also, I'd rather buy myself a turn with that extra five life and potentially miss snapping a bolt than just die. Just been giving it some thought and I don't want to be quick to rule out a potentially handy piece of tech. Sometimes control decks just run out of steam. When that happens, Elixir can fix 'er! That's my sales pitch, anyway, lol.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
Also, if you have a mystical teachings in hand in late game it could prove to be pretty handy if the cards you need are in your graveyard and you don't have any snapcasters. Of course I'm speaking extremely situationally and against a swarm the board creature deck or Melira Pod I feel it's too slow for the lack of interaction it has with the opponent. But for the grind out draw-go control mirror-match up, I think it's a great...card up your sleeve (sorry I had to) to just tip the scales in your favor.
Modern: UBR Cruel Control
Standard: GW Aggro
First match was against GW auras, and I was nervous and made 2 really bad mistakes. I held onto a AotG and bolt thinking I could sweep next turn and keep the bolt for face damage, then he proceeded to load up his dude (who couldn't attack yet) with about 6 enchantments so I missed my window of opportunity for the bolt. So, should have bolted it asap. Just a poor decision on my part, I usually get that right.
Results:
0-2 against GW auras
1-1-1 against Delver Tempo
0-2 against American Control
2-0 against another American Control variation (he made a couple mistakes)
1-1-1 against Tron
0-1-1 against UW
Basically it was a counter spell battle for 4 of my 6 matches, which is just crappy luck. I only got to cast cruel 5 times, and twice it was a last ditch effort to avoid a draw and I played into 2 counters. I suspected the counter was coming, but I didn't have any other play at the time.
I went in expecting to see a lot of pod, twin, affinity and burn. Didn't face a single one (though they were very prevalent). Meh, it is what it is. Some poor play on my part and bad luck in matchups. Was a fun experience though.
I think there are a few main reasons I did poorly.
#1 Play mistakes, which I find odd because when playing with friends or when I play at my local game store I don't usually make that many stupid mistakes. Along with the mistakes made in the first match against the GW Auras, twice I didn't pay attention to my notes and played right into a mana leak and path to exile on my tar pit even though I knew they had them in their hands. I also blew a Hero's Downfall on an Ulamogg in the Tron matchup because I didn't read the card and notice the "indestructable" part. So yeah, more mistakes than I usually make.
#2 I was only able to cast Batterskull and Vendilion Clique once each in 6 matches, so 2 cards that provide more punch just didn't show up when I needed them. There were a couple games where I didn't see any Ultimatums and had plenty of land to cast them. Maybe I was playing to cautious at times too since I knew I facing a control deck. I didn't want to play aggressively unless I was sure they didn't have an answer in their hands, but a couple times I just went for the Ultimatum to try to avoid a draw but they got countered.
#3 I don't know how others do against other control decks, but I hate the match up so much. Its just a grindy counter spell game, and cruel control doesn't have access to things like Lighting Helix and Colonnade, which provide a bit more punch. Two of my friends who went with me played 6 matches each as well and didn't see any control decks... apparently I got all the control matchups.
I'm going to experiment with the dual Jace build and see how it goes. Apparently others are having success with it. Oh, and going to work on making less dumb mistakes
Things learned:
Make less stupid mistakes
Counterflux was an ace sideboard option for the day though. Used them several times.
Duress is also great in the sideboard. It hits a lot of cards, and I don't lose 2 life doing so.
I'm going to run 2 Slaughter Games now. The only time I cast it I pulled 4 Karn's from a deck. I still lost to Ulamogg though, but it definitely puts a kink in their plans.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
That wasn't my experience. Maybe that's why some people run 2 Meeks. I guess I was t getting the cards I needed at the time either, eg terminate is better than meek when it comes to cmc, but alas, I didn't have them when I needed.