So does anyone have a list much like the one that runs thassa etc but without the fecth land, like im willing to spend money but fetches are too much right now for my taste, much more comfortable running terramorphics and evolving wilds
Enchantment suite is pretty good, but pricier than the U-instant dig strategy. It hits way more often though to get answers in hand.
Landing the answer is always the trouble.
Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds are fine fetches for this deck and does double duty with Blood Moon.
Btw, are you the same Emrakool from Tappedout?
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
I've been running this exact 75 extensively and I have a couple changes to the main deck and sideboard that I was thinking of making and I was wondering what you guys think:
Main deck:
-1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
+1 Detention Sphere
Sideboard:
-1 Anger of the gods
-2 Ingot Chewer
-1 Detention Sphere
+2 Ethersworn Cannonist
+2 Damping Matrix
I've found Elspeth to be extremely underwhelming. Garruk is the slowest wincon but he has quite a bit of utility and has over performed for me which makes Elspeth the slowest wincon with 0 utility. Most of the time Elspeth clutters up my hand and in the very rare case where I do get her down after a balance, she takes too long to win and gives my opponent enough time to get back into the game. Also, the deck doesn't need many more wincons after gargadon, Gideon, and Thassa. Jace, Ajani, Garruk, cloudskate, and clique can also win while also providing a lot of board control and utility. I find myself siding the 2nd dsphere in almost every MU so it makes sense to me to move it from the board to the main deck.
Anger of the gods has been relatively unnecessary. In every MU that I want to bring it in it's just a worse/harder to cast 4th balance. Red burn is the exception because I side out balance for fire walkers and bring in anger because I expect them to bring in more creatures games 2/3 because they usually expect leyline (and if they don't game 2, they definitely game 3) -- but I've found the anger is completely unnecessary as Leyline plus cascading into 2 fire walkers is generally game (haven't dropped a match to burn yet).
The ingot chewers have been gathering dust in my sideboard for a while. I guess they're there for affinity and maybe 8rack or KCI or pod? Against affinity usually one balance puts them so far behind they can't get back into it (as long as you set up properly) and then you have PWs/Grip/dsphere/etc to clean up. I was thinking vandalblast would be better but I keep having to remember that I can't play 1&2 cmc cards unless I expect to cascade into them. For this reason I want to add Cannonist (2 cmc) and damping matrix (3 cmc). I feel like basically playing 10 Cannonist (8 ways to cascade plus 2 actual cards to draw into) helps immensely again Ad Nauseum (which has been my worst MU), plus they slow down other combo decks like storm and KCI enough to play the fair game and beat them (just have to remember that you can't cascade into a 2nd one, then again you don't really need to). Matrix is my 3cmc answer to affinity to replace chewer (shuts down ravager and plating, their two 'power' cards) while also having uses in other MUs like Pod and KCI (and probably more that I haven't thought of).
All in all I think these changes make the 75 stronger but I'd like to hear what you guys think. Are there any problem MUs or cards that I'm missing? Ill try to work up a MU-specific sideboard guide that maybe we can work on together if you guys are down.
I've found that finks doesn't do much to me if they land it and between balance, grip, and dsphere, I don't need much more spot removal against affinity. The decks that bring grudge against me aren't the decks that I bring matrix in against - so that's a moot point. Matrix shuts down cranial plating, arcbound ravager, birthing pod, the whole combo in birthing pod, and splinter twin/Kiki Jiki whereas Chewer has consistently underperformed for me. What other points/he's do you have for my changes? I'm honestly curious because if you think of something that I'm not considering it helps a lot for me to determine whether to make these changes or not.
Edit: I mentioned matrix shuts down twin but I usually don't bring matrix in against twin (they are a deck that sometimes brings grudge in).
Report (all off the top of my head without notes so really short summaries):
Game 1: UB Control 1-2
This is a friend I've known forever and we were just playtesting games waiting for pairings. Apparently we got paired against each other but no one announced pairings so we were just in our own little world. All 5 playtest games I won without difficulty but when it came to the real games it just didn't come together. Nothing to learn or apply from this game, simply just didn't get there and died to Clique and Batterskull.
Game 2: TarmoTwin 2-0
I fully expected to lose as I feel Twin is the worst matchup for the post version simply due to early counters then combo out without any resistance. Game 1 I had a tapped Post and two open posts when he tapped out for a Pestermite. In response to the trigger I exiled a SSG and Violent Outburst. He went down to 1 card and zero land then scooped when I dropped a Thassa next turn who was 1 short of being active while he was top decking nothing. Game 2 he brought in a quicker beat down plan and made the same mistake as game 1. He got greedy at three mana and Snapped a Bolt to which I responded with Outburst and SSG to wipe everything. Dropped Elspeth the next turn and it was over.
Game 3: Naya Zoo 2-1
I felt really good about this matchup as long as I had the T3 Balance. Game 1 I didn't have it because I wasn't sure what I was playing against so I lost pretty quickly, not much to report other than if I had a Cascade I would have been good. Game 2 I got him to overextend with an EO, Nactal, followed by 3(!) Goblin Guides. In response to the triggers I Outburst and Balanced him. Proceed to draw 3 lands off the triggers and then proceeded to lay down a large chunk of posts while he did draw-go. Dropped a Tezz and when he couldn't answer it on his turn I ultimated for Lethal. Game 3 was a scary one for me. I suspended a Balance T2 and then went through my other Balances trying to stabilize and stay alive. With a Thassa and my opponent with only a Stomping Ground I was stuck in a dilemma. My opponent was at 14, I had an active Thassa with 2 Ardent Pleas, I nice 2 turn clock. The problem was that I was at 2 and I had yet to see a Goblin Guide and had no one to chump. First turn I passed with Thassa up then realized if my opponent ripped a white source and kept in Path I was also out of luck. Decided to swing in the next turns and got extremely lucky he didn't draw the Guide. I was sweating bullets and my opponent was angry, mission accomplished
Overall I feel the deck is pretty good, even more so when your opponents are not prepared for it. I've been playing a version very similar to this on MODO and while Ashiok never saw play that night, it has before online and it has always been a good walker that gives value post balance. (Sometimes you just get to live the dream and Pestermite + Kiki Jiki an opponent) I did not like Gideon. Most of the times after a Balance I'd be stuck at four mana with him in hand and no extra mana coming. I think I'd rather have another Ajani or maybe Jace, Architect of Thought to help turn on Thassa.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
I have got a lot of questions about this deck:
1. That is a LOT of mana sources. Do you feel it's too much? How does that impact your mulligans?
2. With only 8* cascaders and no way to tutor them, does the deck feel inconsistent? I'd imagine it hard to ensure a balance at all. Even with aggressive mulligans.
3. Thassa is an odd choice. What exactly is she...for? I mean a 5/5 for 3 is nice, but I can't imagine it's active all that often until a decent ways into the game. Just seems weird.
4. Your finishers. I see a lot of 1-of planeswalkers. Is there a point to this? I get that they're legendary, but with some being so much more impactful in the deck than others wouldn't having 2-ofs of the better ones make more sense? Keeping them alive is likely to net you a win even if you have to hold onto the second.
5. The 1-of detention sphere is equally odd.
6. The Firewalker in the sideboard kills the cascade. Is he worth it?
I have got a lot of questions about this deck:
1. That is a LOT of mana sources. Do you feel it's too much? How does that impact your mulligans?
2. With only 4 cascaders and no way to tutor them, does the deck feel inconsistent? I'd imagine it hard to ensure a balance at all. Even with aggressive mulligans.
3. Thassa is an odd choice. What exactly is she...for? I mean a 5/5 for 3 is nice, but I can't imagine it's active all that often until a decent ways into the game. Just seems weird.
4. Your finishers. I see a lot of 1-of planeswalkers. Is there a point to this? I get that they're legendary, but with some being so much more impactful in the deck than others wouldn't having 2-ofs of the better ones make more sense? Keeping them alive is likely to net you a win even if you have to hold onto the second.
5. The 1-of detention sphere is equally odd.
6. The Firewalker in the sideboard kills the cascade. Is he worth it?
1. The ideal land / post ratio was worked out much earlier in the thread and all I did was simply copy one of those lsits substituting in the lands I felt fit.
2. There are 8 Cascaders. Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst.
3. She scrys which is extremely helpful post balance and can easily be turned on by walkers / sphere / borderpost / ardent plea. Sometimes your opponent can drop a chump and you just need to swing in with an unblockable elephant
4. Mostly to test different ones, but it also gives variety. Gideon is likely to become another Vengeant and Ashiok + Tezz may become Jace's.
5. It's nice to have but it's also not something I need nor want to draw all the time. It gives the opportunity to deal with a troublesome permanent that may be in multiples while Beast Within can not.
6. It's for burn decks but the burn guy moved to Naya Zoo so it was never brought in. Against Burn Balance isn't really going to do a whole lot so the Firewalker is a better cascade hit in that case.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
1. Do you remember where that was? I have seen a lot of decklists, and never seen one with that many mana sources. Myself, I only have 10 lands. And I never have any trouble.
2. I meant to say 8. That's still not a lot. Most people have either a contingent of Demonic Dreads or Idyllic Tutors, or both.
6. I have the opposite experience. I see a lot of burn players suddenly unable to cast if they get balanced down to no land, because they have such low land count to begin with. And if you sacrifice your plan just to play a firewalker, it's not going to be enough to save you by itself.
It was one of the lists a few pages back I believe. Essentially it was 3 Terramorphic Expanse, 3 Evolving Wilds, 2 Mountain, 1 Forest, 1 Swamp, 1 Island, 1 Plains, and 1 Mistveil Plains. Basically I cut out the basic fetches and Mistveil for Scalding Tarns and 3 shocks to help with a Cascade. At 13 land I was never starved nor flooded, but I would be willing to cut down some of the basics (ideally the unfetchable ones from Tarn) if it still works out.
8 has been good enough for me, I have never found myself needing more Cascades, although I wouldn't be against maybe throwing some Demonic Dreads in the Side. I feel that the matchups where they would be active are the ones I would likely want the extra assurance of a Balance wrath.
The Firewalkers were based off of the list that was in the Pro Tour and like I said the Burn player isn't playing Burn so they didn't even get touched. I have no experience with the deck against burn so I can't argue against your results, it just seems to me that since they only need one land to make top decks live and they have a low hand count that you are hurting yourself more with a Balance. Again though, I haven't played the matchup so this is all theory from me.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
One final question, about the matchup you have a lot of experience in. Control. How do you approach this matchup? Personally, I have never had any luck in this area. Not much you can do to protect your Balance. A lot of your win-cons involve suspending, and can be anticipated and counters held well in advance. Everything else is high costed and easily countered...including your mana sources.
What do you do here? How can you play around counters against a good opponent who knows what your deck does? You don't really have too much to apply pressure or bait things.
Generally every time I had to hit them with an instant speed Balance when they tapped out for a threat or in response to them countering one of my Walkers / Suspenders / Thassa. Sometimes though you just have to hope they don't have the counter spell and throw down the Ardent Plea with fingers crossed. There were also a few games where I would hard cast a Guide and just slowly get the beats in with him. Exalted helps there of course, and Ricochet Traps from the Sideboard do seem to help make somewhat of a difference.
Almost no one was willing to use a counter on my mana rocks because that meant one less for the inevitable Balance. Twin, however, is more than happy to counter a mana rock because that makes it easier for them to combo off and gold fish without issue. If your opponent is playing a long game control deck then you should be happy they are wasting a counter spell on a mana rock. Sure the tempo sucks, but that clears one out of their hand. This is especially relevant if you have a Spirit Guide that you can use to make up for it when they aren't expecting it.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
1. Do you remember where that was? I have seen a lot of decklists, and never seen one with that many mana sources. Myself, I only have 10 lands. And I never have any trouble.
2. I meant to say 8. That's still not a lot. Most people have either a contingent of Demonic Dreads or Idyllic Tutors, or both.
6. I have the opposite experience. I see a lot of burn players suddenly unable to cast if they get balanced down to no land, because they have such low land count to begin with. And if you sacrifice your plan just to play a firewalker, it's not going to be enough to save you by itself.
I did the math on it, way way back. The ideal distribution is 11-12 lands, 16 Borderposts and as many Cascade Spells as you can cram in there. Most people run 8-11 Cascade spells, but running more than 8 cuts into utility cards and Wincons. That being said, I am trying to trim my list to 11 Lands, 14 Borderposts just to stuff extra wincons in.
We know my calculations on the land base/borderposts is correct as the mana source calculations for Forest Belcher were also based on my calcs and that deck works just fine.
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
This seems a little odd to me. You have a lot of potential enchantment digging, but only one enchantment that is a straight up Wincon and the usual Ardent Plea. Still, the list seems pretty solid.
Here is what I have been toying with for a sideboard these days:
That way when I Cascade into the Restore Balance above the Terramorphic Expanse, when I draw the expanse I can just play it and fetch then shuffle the Restore Balance below so I don't draw into it.
Pretty sure Thieves' Fortune is just the best card in this deck.
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
After playing around with Living End I went in search of other decks that abused cascade, when I found this deck I was not disappointed. This
LOOKS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING it was the same reaction I had when I first saw Living End so I just had to make a prototype decklist for this as well I have two spots open for something I am thinking of putting in a another walker or two but I have no idea who should go in, so does anyone have any suggestions?
In Progress: BGR Living End (Modern) BGR U Tron (Modern) U BW Tokens (Modern) BW WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
I had very good results with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. He impulses for borderposts, turns posts into 5/5 beaters if the board is clear, and if you've got 4 or 5 posts on board, he can finish out a game himself.
I've also had extremely good results with Manabarbs. Since so much of our mana comes from borderposts, we're relatively immune to it, while decks that play "fair" with real lands have to tap them for mana to rebuild their board after a balance, or just sit on an empty board and not take damage. Either way you're pretty happy with the result.
In the more theoretical front, since I've been playing Top Control, most recently, I'm interested in trying out a number of the Theros block Gods. Thassa obviously works well, but Keranos, God of Storms and Mogis, God of Slaughter both do things we want. Keranos is almost always going to be a free lightning bolt for the turn. Mogis is either helping keep the board clear or a free shock for the turn. They're slow but reliable clocks, which plays into our game plan, and if our border posts happen to turn them on, they're both excellent beaters to close the game out quickly.
I haven't tried it yet, but I can see Kiora, the Crashing Wave being very good. Her +1 is probably not terribly relevant, but her -2 lets you play double borderposts, which is nice, and her ultimate is pretty much game winning if you're clearing the board every few turns.
I haven't tried it yet, but I can see Kiora, the Crashing Wave being very good. Her +1 is probably not terribly relevant, but her -2 lets you play double borderposts, which is nice, and her ultimate is pretty much game winning if you're clearing the board every few turns.
I gave her a shot and personally loved her. Her +1 actually came in handy a lot after a balance to help keep their top deck or hand from coming back. Nullifying man lands was helpful too.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Ooooo I definitely going to try Kiora out, she may be the planeswalker to fill my space and she is blue for Thassa.
Spitlebug I added the fourth balance as I sometimes needed to balance twice (and rarely three times).
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Standard Decks: B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks: G Infect G G Stompy! G
In Progress: BGR Living End (Modern) BGR U Tron (Modern) U BW Tokens (Modern) BW WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
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Enchantment suite is pretty good, but pricier than the U-instant dig strategy. It hits way more often though to get answers in hand.
Landing the answer is always the trouble.
Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds are fine fetches for this deck and does double duty with Blood Moon.
Btw, are you the same Emrakool from Tappedout?
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Riftwing Cloudskate
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Greater Gargadon
2 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Firewild Borderpost
3 Restore Balance
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
1 Detention Sphere
2 Dismember
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Gideon Jura
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Ricochet Trap
1 Detention Sphere
1 Krosan Grip
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Kor Firewalker
4 Leyline of Sanctity
I've been running this exact 75 extensively and I have a couple changes to the main deck and sideboard that I was thinking of making and I was wondering what you guys think:
Main deck:
-1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
+1 Detention Sphere
Sideboard:
-1 Anger of the gods
-2 Ingot Chewer
-1 Detention Sphere
+2 Ethersworn Cannonist
+2 Damping Matrix
I've found Elspeth to be extremely underwhelming. Garruk is the slowest wincon but he has quite a bit of utility and has over performed for me which makes Elspeth the slowest wincon with 0 utility. Most of the time Elspeth clutters up my hand and in the very rare case where I do get her down after a balance, she takes too long to win and gives my opponent enough time to get back into the game. Also, the deck doesn't need many more wincons after gargadon, Gideon, and Thassa. Jace, Ajani, Garruk, cloudskate, and clique can also win while also providing a lot of board control and utility. I find myself siding the 2nd dsphere in almost every MU so it makes sense to me to move it from the board to the main deck.
Anger of the gods has been relatively unnecessary. In every MU that I want to bring it in it's just a worse/harder to cast 4th balance. Red burn is the exception because I side out balance for fire walkers and bring in anger because I expect them to bring in more creatures games 2/3 because they usually expect leyline (and if they don't game 2, they definitely game 3) -- but I've found the anger is completely unnecessary as Leyline plus cascading into 2 fire walkers is generally game (haven't dropped a match to burn yet).
The ingot chewers have been gathering dust in my sideboard for a while. I guess they're there for affinity and maybe 8rack or KCI or pod? Against affinity usually one balance puts them so far behind they can't get back into it (as long as you set up properly) and then you have PWs/Grip/dsphere/etc to clean up. I was thinking vandalblast would be better but I keep having to remember that I can't play 1&2 cmc cards unless I expect to cascade into them. For this reason I want to add Cannonist (2 cmc) and damping matrix (3 cmc). I feel like basically playing 10 Cannonist (8 ways to cascade plus 2 actual cards to draw into) helps immensely again Ad Nauseum (which has been my worst MU), plus they slow down other combo decks like storm and KCI enough to play the fair game and beat them (just have to remember that you can't cascade into a 2nd one, then again you don't really need to). Matrix is my 3cmc answer to affinity to replace chewer (shuts down ravager and plating, their two 'power' cards) while also having uses in other MUs like Pod and KCI (and probably more that I haven't thought of).
All in all I think these changes make the 75 stronger but I'd like to hear what you guys think. Are there any problem MUs or cards that I'm missing? Ill try to work up a MU-specific sideboard guide that maybe we can work on together if you guys are down.
Edit: I mentioned matrix shuts down twin but I usually don't bring matrix in against twin (they are a deck that sometimes brings grudge in).
3 Restore Balance
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
[b]Mana Support[/b]
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
2 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Mistvein Borderpost
[b]Beaters[/b]
4 Greater Gargadon
2 Riftwing Cloudskate
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
[b]Removal[/b]
1 Detention Sphere
2 Beast Within
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Gideon Jura
[b]Land[/b]
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Restore Balance
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wispmare
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Boom//Bust
3 Ricochet Trap
Report (all off the top of my head without notes so really short summaries):
Game 1: UB Control 1-2
This is a friend I've known forever and we were just playtesting games waiting for pairings. Apparently we got paired against each other but no one announced pairings so we were just in our own little world. All 5 playtest games I won without difficulty but when it came to the real games it just didn't come together. Nothing to learn or apply from this game, simply just didn't get there and died to Clique and Batterskull.
Game 2: TarmoTwin 2-0
I fully expected to lose as I feel Twin is the worst matchup for the post version simply due to early counters then combo out without any resistance. Game 1 I had a tapped Post and two open posts when he tapped out for a Pestermite. In response to the trigger I exiled a SSG and Violent Outburst. He went down to 1 card and zero land then scooped when I dropped a Thassa next turn who was 1 short of being active while he was top decking nothing. Game 2 he brought in a quicker beat down plan and made the same mistake as game 1. He got greedy at three mana and Snapped a Bolt to which I responded with Outburst and SSG to wipe everything. Dropped Elspeth the next turn and it was over.
Game 3: Naya Zoo 2-1
I felt really good about this matchup as long as I had the T3 Balance. Game 1 I didn't have it because I wasn't sure what I was playing against so I lost pretty quickly, not much to report other than if I had a Cascade I would have been good. Game 2 I got him to overextend with an EO, Nactal, followed by 3(!) Goblin Guides. In response to the triggers I Outburst and Balanced him. Proceed to draw 3 lands off the triggers and then proceeded to lay down a large chunk of posts while he did draw-go. Dropped a Tezz and when he couldn't answer it on his turn I ultimated for Lethal. Game 3 was a scary one for me. I suspended a Balance T2 and then went through my other Balances trying to stabilize and stay alive. With a Thassa and my opponent with only a Stomping Ground I was stuck in a dilemma. My opponent was at 14, I had an active Thassa with 2 Ardent Pleas, I nice 2 turn clock. The problem was that I was at 2 and I had yet to see a Goblin Guide and had no one to chump. First turn I passed with Thassa up then realized if my opponent ripped a white source and kept in Path I was also out of luck. Decided to swing in the next turns and got extremely lucky he didn't draw the Guide. I was sweating bullets and my opponent was angry, mission accomplished
Overall I feel the deck is pretty good, even more so when your opponents are not prepared for it. I've been playing a version very similar to this on MODO and while Ashiok never saw play that night, it has before online and it has always been a good walker that gives value post balance. (Sometimes you just get to live the dream and Pestermite + Kiki Jiki an opponent) I did not like Gideon. Most of the times after a Balance I'd be stuck at four mana with him in hand and no extra mana coming. I think I'd rather have another Ajani or maybe Jace, Architect of Thought to help turn on Thassa.
1. That is a LOT of mana sources. Do you feel it's too much? How does that impact your mulligans?
2. With only 8* cascaders and no way to tutor them, does the deck feel inconsistent? I'd imagine it hard to ensure a balance at all. Even with aggressive mulligans.
3. Thassa is an odd choice. What exactly is she...for? I mean a 5/5 for 3 is nice, but I can't imagine it's active all that often until a decent ways into the game. Just seems weird.
4. Your finishers. I see a lot of 1-of planeswalkers. Is there a point to this? I get that they're legendary, but with some being so much more impactful in the deck than others wouldn't having 2-ofs of the better ones make more sense? Keeping them alive is likely to net you a win even if you have to hold onto the second.
5. The 1-of detention sphere is equally odd.
6. The Firewalker in the sideboard kills the cascade. Is he worth it?
1. The ideal land / post ratio was worked out much earlier in the thread and all I did was simply copy one of those lsits substituting in the lands I felt fit.
2. There are 8 Cascaders. Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst.
3. She scrys which is extremely helpful post balance and can easily be turned on by walkers / sphere / borderpost / ardent plea. Sometimes your opponent can drop a chump and you just need to swing in with an unblockable elephant
4. Mostly to test different ones, but it also gives variety. Gideon is likely to become another Vengeant and Ashiok + Tezz may become Jace's.
5. It's nice to have but it's also not something I need nor want to draw all the time. It gives the opportunity to deal with a troublesome permanent that may be in multiples while Beast Within can not.
6. It's for burn decks but the burn guy moved to Naya Zoo so it was never brought in. Against Burn Balance isn't really going to do a whole lot so the Firewalker is a better cascade hit in that case.
2. I meant to say 8. That's still not a lot. Most people have either a contingent of Demonic Dreads or Idyllic Tutors, or both.
6. I have the opposite experience. I see a lot of burn players suddenly unable to cast if they get balanced down to no land, because they have such low land count to begin with. And if you sacrifice your plan just to play a firewalker, it's not going to be enough to save you by itself.
8 has been good enough for me, I have never found myself needing more Cascades, although I wouldn't be against maybe throwing some Demonic Dreads in the Side. I feel that the matchups where they would be active are the ones I would likely want the extra assurance of a Balance wrath.
The Firewalkers were based off of the list that was in the Pro Tour and like I said the Burn player isn't playing Burn so they didn't even get touched. I have no experience with the deck against burn so I can't argue against your results, it just seems to me that since they only need one land to make top decks live and they have a low hand count that you are hurting yourself more with a Balance. Again though, I haven't played the matchup so this is all theory from me.
What do you do here? How can you play around counters against a good opponent who knows what your deck does? You don't really have too much to apply pressure or bait things.
Almost no one was willing to use a counter on my mana rocks because that meant one less for the inevitable Balance. Twin, however, is more than happy to counter a mana rock because that makes it easier for them to combo off and gold fish without issue. If your opponent is playing a long game control deck then you should be happy they are wasting a counter spell on a mana rock. Sure the tempo sucks, but that clears one out of their hand. This is especially relevant if you have a Spirit Guide that you can use to make up for it when they aren't expecting it.
I did the math on it, way way back. The ideal distribution is 11-12 lands, 16 Borderposts and as many Cascade Spells as you can cram in there. Most people run 8-11 Cascade spells, but running more than 8 cuts into utility cards and Wincons. That being said, I am trying to trim my list to 11 Lands, 14 Borderposts just to stuff extra wincons in.
Some good Reading:
Discussion and calculations for mulligans and lands/borderpost distribution models - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/221760-restore-balance-combo?comment=470
Discussion about card draw/dig/tutors - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/221760-restore-balance-combo?comment=464
Discussion about the number of Cascade Spells - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/221760-restore-balance-combo?comment=456
General Card Discussion (card choices etc...) - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/221760-restore-balance-combo?comment=543
We know my calculations on the land base/borderposts is correct as the mana source calculations for Forest Belcher were also based on my calcs and that deck works just fine.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
Creatures:
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
4 Restore Balance
Tutor:
2 Thieves' Fortune
3 Idyllic Tutor
Toolbox:
1 Blood Moon
1 Detention sphere
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Gideon Jura
1 March of the Machines
Borderposts:
4 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
3 Mistvein Borderpost
1 Veinfire Borderpost
This seems a little odd to me. You have a lot of potential enchantment digging, but only one enchantment that is a straight up Wincon and the usual Ardent Plea. Still, the list seems pretty solid.
Here is what I have been toying with for a sideboard these days:
4 Ricochet Trap
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Ingot Chewer
Not running Boom/Bust anymore. Been burned too much by that card.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
- Restore Balance
- Restore Balance
- Beast Within
- Terramorphic Expanse
Took the Beast Within.
Do you know how I ordered the cards on the bottom?
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
That way when I Cascade into the Restore Balance above the Terramorphic Expanse, when I draw the expanse I can just play it and fetch then shuffle the Restore Balance below so I don't draw into it.
Pretty sure Thieves' Fortune is just the best card in this deck.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
LOOKS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING it was the same reaction I had when I first saw Living End so I just had to make a prototype decklist for this as well I have two spots open for something I am thinking of putting in a another walker or two but I have no idea who should go in, so does anyone have any suggestions?
4x Greater Gargadon
2x Riftwing Cloudskate
3x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Thassa, God of the Sea
Lands
3x Evolving Wilds
1x Forest
2x Island
2x Mountain
1x Plains
3x Terramorphic Expanse
Artifacts
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Firewild Borderpost
2x Mistvein Borderpost
2x Veinfire Borderpost
4x Wildfield Borderpost
2x Beast Within
4x Violent Outburst
3x Restore Balance
Other
4x Ardent Plea
2x Detention Sphere
Planeswalker
2x Ajani Vengeant
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Kor Firewalker
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Restore Balance
3x Ricochet Trap
2x Wispmare
Any suggestions?
Standard Decks:
B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks:
G Infect G
G Stompy! G
In Progress:
BGR Living End (Modern) BGR
U Tron (Modern) U
BW Tokens (Modern) BW
WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
I've also had extremely good results with Manabarbs. Since so much of our mana comes from borderposts, we're relatively immune to it, while decks that play "fair" with real lands have to tap them for mana to rebuild their board after a balance, or just sit on an empty board and not take damage. Either way you're pretty happy with the result.
In the more theoretical front, since I've been playing Top Control, most recently, I'm interested in trying out a number of the Theros block Gods. Thassa obviously works well, but Keranos, God of Storms and Mogis, God of Slaughter both do things we want. Keranos is almost always going to be a free lightning bolt for the turn. Mogis is either helping keep the board clear or a free shock for the turn. They're slow but reliable clocks, which plays into our game plan, and if our border posts happen to turn them on, they're both excellent beaters to close the game out quickly.
I haven't tried it yet, but I can see Kiora, the Crashing Wave being very good. Her +1 is probably not terribly relevant, but her -2 lets you play double borderposts, which is nice, and her ultimate is pretty much game winning if you're clearing the board every few turns.
Thassa seems better everytime I look at her, but not being able to control the devotion is bit of a turn off since sacrificing trumps indestructible.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
I gave her a shot and personally loved her. Her +1 actually came in handy a lot after a balance to help keep their top deck or hand from coming back. Nullifying man lands was helpful too.
Spitlebug I added the fourth balance as I sometimes needed to balance twice (and rarely three times).
Standard Decks:
B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks:
G Infect G
G Stompy! G
In Progress:
BGR Living End (Modern) BGR
U Tron (Modern) U
BW Tokens (Modern) BW
WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR