Discard has been scarce lately, but be on the look for the GBx decks..they have seen a bit of a resurgance as of late. Another way to get around Eidolon/Canonist...if you don't have a Slaughter Pact in had, but have an Unlife on board, you can EoT AN and then Pact and Storm on your turn
I have also been flirting with the idea of playing two Grave Titan in the SB, but I would have to see how much that would affect other SB choices. If I get a chance to test it, I'll report back
I wouldn't play more than 22 lands and I think 4 Peer is too many. Maybe cut a couple for Sleight of Hand I also wouldn't splash the red either. Just play some number of Drown In Sorrow/Damnation/Supremem Verdict in the Pyroclasm spot. I play 2 DiS and 1 SV. One of the biggest boons of this deck over other combo decks is its ability to go off at instant speed, which is why I'm also not a fan of Defense Grid. Scry lands are also pretty sweet in this deck. I would pick a couple up if you can
I highly recommend playing scrys. They help filter your draws and fix your mana, and most successful lists run four. I would drop the Tarns for Flooded Strands, cut one Mystical Teachings, and replace Conflagrate with Lightning Storm. Ad Nauseam can't really afford to run more than 4 fetches, so I'd cut the Marsh Flats and replace them with two Polluted Deltas. I'd also replace the other 2 Flats, one Fountain, and the Blood Crypt with 2 Temple of Deceit and 2 Temple of Enlightenment.
EDIT: I don't think boarding in Titans is a very good idea. What matchups would you board them in for, and what would you cut for them? At six mana, they're pretty slow, and they aren't necessarily game-winners when you drop them. Just doesn't seem worth the slots to me. Let us know how testing goes!
Wait..isn't the combo six mana too? Its just a way to switch things up when they board in a bunch of combo hate. They won't (or shouldn't) have any removal in their deck, so assuming they resolve, they should be hard to stop. Kind of the same thing Scapeshift has been doing more of lately by boarding in Wurmcoils, Titans, etc. To be fair, they do play more of a control game than us though. Maybe Baneslayer would be a better option
I don't think a transformational strategy at all is a good option. Yes, the combo is also six mana, but you typically destroy your board state (sac blooms, remove counters from prisms, etc) to pull it off. If you're dropping a creature, you're not planning on the game ending that turn, but you're left with a crippled board state. Lightning Storm is a guaranteed kill, and Grave Titan/Baneslayer Angel isn't.
In addition, its success wholly depends on your opponent's choices, which you can't accurately predict. You can't guarantee that they'll board out all of their relevant removal, and you can't guarantee that they won't have other ways to deal with one or two creatures--even if those creatures, in a vacuum, my be powerful.
As I said though-I'm curious as to how your testing goes.
Granted i haven't been playing this deck for too long, but wouldn't it make more sense to just side in thoughtsieze if your expecting slaughter games? I mean large creatures in the board as an alternate to the combo just make this deck fold to basically any removal, as opposed to a small number of cards and strategies with keeping the combo.
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The answer is purple because ice cream has no bones.
Sure, side in Thoughtseize too, but you can't rely on drawing Thoughtseize at the same time that they have Slaughter Games in their hand. Having a secondary win condition is mandatory if you think Games will come in from the board.
Leyline is a better sideboard card vs Slaughter Games than Grave Titan is. It's harder to remove and doesn't require that we cripple our board state to cast. The way I see it, these are the options:
With Grave Titan, we board out 2-4 cards (dig? combo pieces?) to put in 6-drops that we aren't well-equipped to support. They may provide a wall against aggro decks, but most aggro decks either aren't an issue enough to board in titans, or have us dead (or nearly so) by turn four, which is the earliest we can feasibly cast the titan. You need an other 3 turns to kill your opponent, assumig they have no blockers, bounce, lifegain, or removal.
With Leyline, you board out 3-4 cards to put in 4-drops that we can cast pretty easily if we absolutely need to, but that have a decent chance of being free. They actually protect the combo in a number of ways: against discard, against Memoricide/Slaughter Games, and against burn. You still have an excellent chance of a well-protected turn 4-5 kill.
One of those options just seems clearly superior to me. Is there some significant advantage to Titan that I'm missing?
EDIT: Why would having a second wincon be mandatory? If we can adequately protect our one wincon, there's no sense in needlessly diluting the deck to put another, inferior one in.
Because it can be difficult to adequately protect your wincon. Leyline of Sanctity is fantastic, but aggressively mulling can hurt you as much as the leyline will help. It can't always be relied upon.
Additionally, you might need a creature based wincon against decks that attempt to prevent you from playing spells, such as Gaddock Teeg or Eidolon of Rhetoric. Sure, you can Slaughter Pact them, but sometimes it's just not viable. Diversifying your wincon after boarding can help make certain matchups winnable which might be incredibly difficult, simply because they don't expect it. Almost 100% of people will side out removal against you once they realize what your on, which can give you a huge advantage.
I dont think you can call an idea inferior until you've tried it and proven such. Would you present the same argument to people that play Conflagrate or Lab Maniac with Lightning Storm? Aren't those secondary win cons as well? Would you tell a Scapeshift player to just protect their combo better and stop playing other win con's in their SBs, because judging by results, it seems to be working out pretty well for them. I'm not saying its right or even good (I admit, its probably not), but I'm at least trying to offer up new ideas to keep the deck from becoming stale, rather than just dismissing everything or everyone that isn't a stock list or doesn't agree with me
I'd also like to note that it's not the best alternate wincon. You won't side it in every game. In fact, you likely won't side it in most games. However, having a creature in the side has actually won me a fair number of games, and 1 or 2 sideboard slots for it is, imo, perfectly fair.
Now, I'm not sure that Grave Titan is the best option. I like Laboratory Maniac the most, for a couple reasons:
A lot of people will Slaughter Games Lightning Storm instead of the real threat, Ad Nauseam
It's cute as hell
However, I can see a meta where you might want to run Grave Titan, just because of how irritating it is and how much board presence it can bring.
I think I'm finally gonna pull the trigger and build this deck on MODO, but I've heard that holding priority with Lightning Storm can be a little wonky. Can anyone elaborate on this?
Its not awful holding priority but you just have to remember to do it. I haven't tried it on the most recent version, but before as long as you hold control it should be fine. Just try it with another deck in the tournament practice room.
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UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
That's all I was trying to say-of the options available, Grave Titan just isn't the best option in terms of alternate wincons. How would Grave Titan help in the mirror? If my Ad Nauseam-Playing opponent boarded into Grave Titan, I'd most likely be able to combo off the turn they tap out to play it.
To be fair, I haven't tested it. It just seems far from optimal in most scenarios. If it does help, but only in very rare scenarios, I wouldn't call it worth the SB slot-but to each their own. What matchups do you typically find yourself boarding them in for?
I think you have to hold Ctrl when tapping mana for the spell if you want to hold priority. I don't play MTGO though. Try it out in the practice room before entering a DE.
With regards to Grave Titan, the pertinent question is "which matchups would you side it in for?"
I think I'm finally gonna pull the trigger and build this deck on MODO, but I've heard that holding priority with Lightning Storm can be a little wonky. Can anyone elaborate on this?
You exile spirit guides. Then, when you cast lightning storm hold control the entire time you click to discard lands. It's not intuitive, but once you get it, you get it.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
I have an incredibly noob question. After looking at the list, and seeing that the plan is to win on turn 4/5, why not run a full four of City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Reflecting Pool, and Gemstone Mine. Mine makes sense, since it gets worse the longer the game goes, but the rainbow lands in the early game seem like they would be better than shock lands.
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4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Angel's Grace
2 Pact of Negation
1 Lightning Storm
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Ad Nauseam
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Peer Through Depths
1 Conflagrate
4 Serum Visions
3 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Halimar Depths
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Darkslick Shores
4 Marsh Flats
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Patrician's Scorn
3 Pyroclasm
2 Duress
EDIT: I don't think boarding in Titans is a very good idea. What matchups would you board them in for, and what would you cut for them? At six mana, they're pretty slow, and they aren't necessarily game-winners when you drop them. Just doesn't seem worth the slots to me. Let us know how testing goes!
In addition, its success wholly depends on your opponent's choices, which you can't accurately predict. You can't guarantee that they'll board out all of their relevant removal, and you can't guarantee that they won't have other ways to deal with one or two creatures--even if those creatures, in a vacuum, my be powerful.
As I said though-I'm curious as to how your testing goes.
And I'm sure there are other decks playing Slaughter Games as well, but those tend to be the main ones.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
With Grave Titan, we board out 2-4 cards (dig? combo pieces?) to put in 6-drops that we aren't well-equipped to support. They may provide a wall against aggro decks, but most aggro decks either aren't an issue enough to board in titans, or have us dead (or nearly so) by turn four, which is the earliest we can feasibly cast the titan. You need an other 3 turns to kill your opponent, assumig they have no blockers, bounce, lifegain, or removal.
With Leyline, you board out 3-4 cards to put in 4-drops that we can cast pretty easily if we absolutely need to, but that have a decent chance of being free. They actually protect the combo in a number of ways: against discard, against Memoricide/Slaughter Games, and against burn. You still have an excellent chance of a well-protected turn 4-5 kill.
One of those options just seems clearly superior to me. Is there some significant advantage to Titan that I'm missing?
EDIT: Why would having a second wincon be mandatory? If we can adequately protect our one wincon, there's no sense in needlessly diluting the deck to put another, inferior one in.
Additionally, you might need a creature based wincon against decks that attempt to prevent you from playing spells, such as Gaddock Teeg or Eidolon of Rhetoric. Sure, you can Slaughter Pact them, but sometimes it's just not viable. Diversifying your wincon after boarding can help make certain matchups winnable which might be incredibly difficult, simply because they don't expect it. Almost 100% of people will side out removal against you once they realize what your on, which can give you a huge advantage.
Also, the mirror match.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Now, I'm not sure that Grave Titan is the best option. I like Laboratory Maniac the most, for a couple reasons:
However, I can see a meta where you might want to run Grave Titan, just because of how irritating it is and how much board presence it can bring.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
To be fair, I haven't tested it. It just seems far from optimal in most scenarios. If it does help, but only in very rare scenarios, I wouldn't call it worth the SB slot-but to each their own. What matchups do you typically find yourself boarding them in for?
With regards to Grave Titan, the pertinent question is "which matchups would you side it in for?"
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
You exile spirit guides. Then, when you cast lightning storm hold control the entire time you click to discard lands. It's not intuitive, but once you get it, you get it.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins