The deck seemed to run smoothly, and never got hit too hard form the tempo lost in Smallpox. Because he was casting Pox on turn 2, he could discard a reanimator target then turn 3 play his land back up to 2, then cast Goryo's Vengeance bringing back whatever he discarded to win. The thing that he had going for him was the late game that his deck had built in, with the Ravens Crime Loam engine. If there is any interest I can try to recreate his list, or ask him for it? Has this sort of thing ever been done before?
Sounds really interesting. I love me some Pox Loam action.
Yes, please ask for the list, id be super interested in it. That seems like a very interesting take on the engine. Dropping blue for a more disruptive pox/loam engine seems like it could have promise.
I did some testing with the Loam plan and I found it to be not as fast. That is to be expected, but it folds less to fair decks if you don't hit into the combo. I just found it didn't have enough removal for decks like Jund. Graveyard hate is even worse for that version.
I do love loam strategies, I just think there is too much hate in the format right now.
Godo, Bandit Warlord that seems really strong, running multiples of those would be really good. if one could get away with blinking cloudshift godo for multiple batterskull would be nutz.
loaming for Borborygmos Enraged solid plan, but feels more vulnerable to me, doesn't progress your hand to a better position if your not winning that turn, I wish he'd left the lightning bolts in there because that would make his Borborygmos Enraged much more game winning since he can bolt the opponents face and life total down closer to that needed 13 or lower to make it lethal when you actually get around to using it. flame jabs i can't see that being enough.
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Anyone consider running Nyx Weaver to either hunt for combo piece or to dump a brand or emrakul to graveyard at upkeep, plus it has a solid body and the ability to pull back a card
I am getting around to typing up the new decklist that me and a friend have been brewing for the last couple of days. I know I posted about it a week ago but I have been busy....
Anyways, something that has come up is the new card Necromancer's Stockpile that was just spoiled today. It is a repeatable way to discard cards at instant speed, and it even cantrips. It's almost like Zombie Infestation in a way. It may have some merit in my new list, but it may also be too slow. What are the thoughts on this since I am not exactly 100% familiar with this kind of reanimator deck in modern.
I am getting around to typing up the new decklist that me and a friend have been brewing for the last couple of days. I know I posted about it a week ago but I have been busy....
Anyways, something that has come up is the new card Necromancer's Stockpile that was just spoiled today. It is a repeatable way to discard cards at instant speed, and it even cantrips. It's almost like Zombie Infestation in a way. It may have some merit in my new list, but it may also be too slow. What are the thoughts on this since I am not exactly 100% familiar with this kind of reanimator deck in modern.
so far we don't run zombie cards to trigger the token making, how would that be useful? plus can't discard an emrakul, that just draws you a card while sending away the graveyard.
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--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Also, I wonder what your thoughts are when comparing defense grid and pact of negation. I use grid and I am happy with it, but I feel that is only useful against blue while pact could be useful most of the time.
so far we don't run zombie cards to trigger the token making, how would that be useful? plus can't discard an emrakul, that just draws you a card while sending away the graveyard.
It does allow you to cycle Simian Spirit Guides, which isn't entirely useless.
Further, Generator Servant might be a suitable replacement for Pentad Prism, which would give you another creature to cycle if you don't need the mana acceleration effect. You lose the color fixing, but gain another body which can help stall or beat down if necessary. And hard casting a hasty Griselbrand isn't exactly horrible.
Basically the gist of it is that you are playing a resilient BG Rock shell. You have a good midgame and a somewhat ok lategame through big beaters like Tarmogoyf. While they are dealing with your threats you assemble the Goryo's Vengeance + Griselbrand kill. The ways to discard come from the Lily or Smallpox which you should set up beforehand, but if you are really desperate you can Raven's Crime yourself by retracing it.
The deck has some other lines of play, such as going all out with the discard by using Raven's Crime + Life from the Loam. This is mainly prevalent vs control and some combo decks if they are holding it in hand.
Using Life from the Loam + Ghost Quarter allows you to be really aggressive with land destruction. It doesn't matter if they get the basic because eventually they will run out of them and then you can happily play your Strip Mines to victory.
The Pentad Prisms were included because you do loose some temp as a result of Smallpox and Ghost Quarter. They also allow you to save some lands that you draw to use for retracing rather then upping your land count.
Currently he's gone 2-1-1, 3-1, and 3-2 at the store. There are also thoughts of adding in red for things such as Faithless Looting or Pyroclasm.. Another idea was dropping a Woodland Cemetery for a manland of sorts since the deck also functions as a midrange deck.
Any thoughts on the list? It's being constantly changed, but the single problem I'm finding right now is that having the two ideas (midrange and reanimator combo) in the deck can sometimes stretch it too thin.
On a side note, on of the most fun plays is turn 1 Thoughtseize/Raven's Crime, turn 2 Smallpox discarding Griselbrand, and then turn 3 playing a land and casting Goryo's Vengeance to get him back. This is one of the more god-hand like plays, but it is still fun and something that the deck is capable of.
Is it still worth doing vengeance with Griselbrand when you don't have access to the Fury of the Hordes instakill?
Yes. There's a fair number of lists in this thread that don't go for the Fury plan, especially earlier on. In fact the main BR version in the Primer forgoes Fury and Simian, in the belief they are "win more" cards that are not answers or dig to get you to the combo as fast as possible. If nothing else, any Goryo'd Griselbrand is 7 damage and the possibility of drawing up to 21 cards if your life is high enough. The card draw should let you sculpt a hand that will let you do it again in future turns, dig to answers to bad board states, set up Emrakul reanimations, put all your loam/retrace engine cards in the graveyard, and so on.
Overall I like the Rock/Pox idea. All the disruption gives you a much better matchup against fast combos like Twin, which is one of the worst matches for the classic BR version.
Keeping with this Rock/Pox-ish shell, I agree that I don't care for Tarmagoyf, since as you point out, its only a mediocre beater in the late game. It can also be weak early game if you don't get lucky with discard effects, especially since unlike most Jund/Rock variants, this deck is going to be a bit light on removal. Scavenging Ooze and Thrun, the Last Troll are the first cards that come to mind as replacements with a more utility oriented bent. Ooze is grave hate, life gain, and can use the non-recurring creatures in your own yard to power up into an equally solid beater to Goyf. Thrun works with Goryo's if necessary, and provides an easily castable and incredibly hard to remove threat and blocker that lives through almost anything in the format (especially if you can keep a Bloodghast around to protect it from edicts).
You could also skip Goyfs to up the count on Bloodghast or take advantage of the Undying/Smallpox interaction with Strangleroot Geist in the low cost aggressive beater category. Gravecrawler could be another low cost recursive option which plays well in a Pox/discard shell.
Since the Goryo's/Griselbrand combo itself is fairly compact, you could slot in easily to any shell which has enough discard or dredged based digging. Looking at Dredgevine and Assault Loam decks might provide for further ideas to develop this version. I feel like Vengevine especially could work, thought it might require a little more rejiggering to have enough creatures to reliably trigger it and still leave the room for the combo. And while you'd lose a few of the pox benefits, it gives you a much stronger early game if you don't have the Goryo/Griselbrand combo in your opener.
Is it still worth doing vengeance with Griselbrand when you don't have access to the Fury of the Hordes instakill?
some lists run assault strobe to give griselbrand double strike, and thats far less red card demanding than fury of the hoard. usually you run lightning bolts and get your opponent down to 14 before griselbrand comboing. other times all you need to do is just slap them with griselbrand without using assault strobe and just draw up simians and bolts to burn out your opponent.
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Also, I wonder what your thoughts are when comparing defense grid and pact of negation. I use grid and I am happy with it, but I feel that is only useful against blue while pact could be useful most of the time.
I've tried Ideas Unbound since I was curious about its applications and it's really a hit or miss. It's good if you have the mana to draw 3 cards and combo on your turn, which means you'd need Pentad Prism when running it, or playing the waiting game on your 2nd turn for a turn 3 Griselbrand, but I'm not liking it overall. I'd rather have See Beyond/Sleight of Hand/Serum Visions in its place.
Is it still worth doing vengeance with Griselbrand when you don't have access to the Fury of the Hordes instakill?
Yes. There's a fair number of lists in this thread that don't go for the Fury plan, especially earlier on. In fact the main BR version in the Primer forgoes Fury and Simian, in the belief they are "win more" cards that are not answers or dig to get you to the combo as fast as possible. If nothing else, any Goryo'd Griselbrand is 7 damage and the possibility of drawing up to 21 cards if your life is high enough. The card draw should let you sculpt a hand that will let you do it again in future turns, dig to answers to bad board states, set up Emrakul reanimations, put all your loam/retrace engine cards in the graveyard, and so on.
Overall I like the Rock/Pox idea. All the disruption gives you a much better matchup against fast combos like Twin, which is one of the worst matches for the classic BR version.
Keeping with this Rock/Pox-ish shell, I agree that I don't care for Tarmagoyf, since as you point out, its only a mediocre beater in the late game. It can also be weak early game if you don't get lucky with discard effects, especially since unlike most Jund/Rock variants, this deck is going to be a bit light on removal. Scavenging Ooze and Thrun, the Last Troll are the first cards that come to mind as replacements with a more utility oriented bent. Ooze is grave hate, life gain, and can use the non-recurring creatures in your own yard to power up into an equally solid beater to Goyf. Thrun works with Goryo's if necessary, and provides an easily castable and incredibly hard to remove threat and blocker that lives through almost anything in the format (especially if you can keep a Bloodghast around to protect it from edicts).
You could also skip Goyfs to up the count on Bloodghast or take advantage of the Undying/Smallpox interaction with Strangleroot Geist in the low cost aggressive beater category. Gravecrawler could be another low cost recursive option which plays well in a Pox/discard shell.
Since the Goryo's/Griselbrand combo itself is fairly compact, you could slot in easily to any shell which has enough discard or dredged based digging. Looking at Dredgevine and Assault Loam decks might provide for further ideas to develop this version. I feel like Vengevine especially could work, thought it might require a little more rejiggering to have enough creatures to reliably trigger it and still leave the room for the combo. And while you'd lose a few of the pox benefits, it gives you a much stronger early game if you don't have the Goryo/Griselbrand combo in your opener.
Thanks for the advice. I will be updating the list and posting back how it preforms and what changes were made periodically. I find it fun to play so I won't really drop brewing it anytime soon.
Sounds really interesting. I love me some Pox Loam action.
boopmaster1 discussed a slightly more Griselbrand centric version of the same idea a page or two back in this thread.
I'd also be interested in seeing a new variant on the same idea.
I do love loam strategies, I just think there is too much hate in the format right now.
loaming for Borborygmos Enraged solid plan, but feels more vulnerable to me, doesn't progress your hand to a better position if your not winning that turn, I wish he'd left the lightning bolts in there because that would make his Borborygmos Enraged much more game winning since he can bolt the opponents face and life total down closer to that needed 13 or lower to make it lethal when you actually get around to using it. flame jabs i can't see that being enough.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Anyways, something that has come up is the new card Necromancer's Stockpile that was just spoiled today. It is a repeatable way to discard cards at instant speed, and it even cantrips. It's almost like Zombie Infestation in a way. It may have some merit in my new list, but it may also be too slow. What are the thoughts on this since I am not exactly 100% familiar with this kind of reanimator deck in modern.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
so far we don't run zombie cards to trigger the token making, how would that be useful? plus can't discard an emrakul, that just draws you a card while sending away the graveyard.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Also, I wonder what your thoughts are when comparing defense grid and pact of negation. I use grid and I am happy with it, but I feel that is only useful against blue while pact could be useful most of the time.
It does allow you to cycle Simian Spirit Guides, which isn't entirely useless.
Further, Generator Servant might be a suitable replacement for Pentad Prism, which would give you another creature to cycle if you don't need the mana acceleration effect. You lose the color fixing, but gain another body which can help stall or beat down if necessary. And hard casting a hasty Griselbrand isn't exactly horrible.
1 Bloodghast
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Other Stuff
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pentad Prism
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Goryo's Vengeance
3 Thoughtseize
3 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
3 Life from the Loam
1 Time of Need
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Swamp
2 Forest
Basically the gist of it is that you are playing a resilient BG Rock shell. You have a good midgame and a somewhat ok lategame through big beaters like Tarmogoyf. While they are dealing with your threats you assemble the Goryo's Vengeance + Griselbrand kill. The ways to discard come from the Lily or Smallpox which you should set up beforehand, but if you are really desperate you can Raven's Crime yourself by retracing it.
The deck has some other lines of play, such as going all out with the discard by using Raven's Crime + Life from the Loam. This is mainly prevalent vs control and some combo decks if they are holding it in hand.
Using Life from the Loam + Ghost Quarter allows you to be really aggressive with land destruction. It doesn't matter if they get the basic because eventually they will run out of them and then you can happily play your Strip Mines to victory.
The Pentad Prisms were included because you do loose some temp as a result of Smallpox and Ghost Quarter. They also allow you to save some lands that you draw to use for retracing rather then upping your land count.
Currently he's gone 2-1-1, 3-1, and 3-2 at the store. There are also thoughts of adding in red for things such as Faithless Looting or Pyroclasm.. Another idea was dropping a Woodland Cemetery for a manland of sorts since the deck also functions as a midrange deck.
Any thoughts on the list? It's being constantly changed, but the single problem I'm finding right now is that having the two ideas (midrange and reanimator combo) in the deck can sometimes stretch it too thin.
On a side note, on of the most fun plays is turn 1 Thoughtseize/Raven's Crime, turn 2 Smallpox discarding Griselbrand, and then turn 3 playing a land and casting Goryo's Vengeance to get him back. This is one of the more god-hand like plays, but it is still fun and something that the deck is capable of.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Yes. There's a fair number of lists in this thread that don't go for the Fury plan, especially earlier on. In fact the main BR version in the Primer forgoes Fury and Simian, in the belief they are "win more" cards that are not answers or dig to get you to the combo as fast as possible. If nothing else, any Goryo'd Griselbrand is 7 damage and the possibility of drawing up to 21 cards if your life is high enough. The card draw should let you sculpt a hand that will let you do it again in future turns, dig to answers to bad board states, set up Emrakul reanimations, put all your loam/retrace engine cards in the graveyard, and so on.
Overall I like the Rock/Pox idea. All the disruption gives you a much better matchup against fast combos like Twin, which is one of the worst matches for the classic BR version.
Keeping with this Rock/Pox-ish shell, I agree that I don't care for Tarmagoyf, since as you point out, its only a mediocre beater in the late game. It can also be weak early game if you don't get lucky with discard effects, especially since unlike most Jund/Rock variants, this deck is going to be a bit light on removal. Scavenging Ooze and Thrun, the Last Troll are the first cards that come to mind as replacements with a more utility oriented bent. Ooze is grave hate, life gain, and can use the non-recurring creatures in your own yard to power up into an equally solid beater to Goyf. Thrun works with Goryo's if necessary, and provides an easily castable and incredibly hard to remove threat and blocker that lives through almost anything in the format (especially if you can keep a Bloodghast around to protect it from edicts).
You could also skip Goyfs to up the count on Bloodghast or take advantage of the Undying/Smallpox interaction with Strangleroot Geist in the low cost aggressive beater category. Gravecrawler could be another low cost recursive option which plays well in a Pox/discard shell.
Since the Goryo's/Griselbrand combo itself is fairly compact, you could slot in easily to any shell which has enough discard or dredged based digging. Looking at Dredgevine and Assault Loam decks might provide for further ideas to develop this version. I feel like Vengevine especially could work, thought it might require a little more rejiggering to have enough creatures to reliably trigger it and still leave the room for the combo. And while you'd lose a few of the pox benefits, it gives you a much stronger early game if you don't have the Goryo/Griselbrand combo in your opener.
some lists run assault strobe to give griselbrand double strike, and thats far less red card demanding than fury of the hoard. usually you run lightning bolts and get your opponent down to 14 before griselbrand comboing. other times all you need to do is just slap them with griselbrand without using assault strobe and just draw up simians and bolts to burn out your opponent.
------------------------------------------
rather use Akuta, Born of Ash instead of bloodghast. atleast if were talking 1 ofs.
could use him with sun titan drop sun titan and reanimate your used Generator Servant.
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells:27
4 Faithless Looting
1 Lightning Axe
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Izzet Charm
4 Pentad Prism
4 Through the Breach
4 Fury of the Horde
Lands:21
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Malice
1 Watery Grave
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Torpor Orb
3 Anger of the Gods
I know that people are shying from Fury, but I still like the instakill factor of it. I like the idea of using goyf and bolts as plan B though.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I've tried Ideas Unbound since I was curious about its applications and it's really a hit or miss. It's good if you have the mana to draw 3 cards and combo on your turn, which means you'd need Pentad Prism when running it, or playing the waiting game on your 2nd turn for a turn 3 Griselbrand, but I'm not liking it overall. I'd rather have See Beyond/Sleight of Hand/Serum Visions in its place.
I use Pact of Negation because there's a lot of Path to Exile where I play and when Path to Exile targets my Griselbrand I draw 7 in response to try and get Pact of Negation to counter.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I used Todd Anderson's latest list. It's pretty damn consistent and brutal.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay