I noticed I'm the only one who play's Elspeth, Knight-Errant as a one of main, she closes out stalled board states so fast.. She's an MVP in fair match ups.
As an aside, out of like 30 people last night, came in 5th at 4-1 (breakkkkerrrrrssssss). If you feel like it's awful to draw a vial on turn 3, it's just as bad to draw a dork on turn 3 sometimes.
I feel like drawing a dork is mitigated when it has exalted.
As an aside, out of like 30 people last night, came in 5th at 4-1 (breakkkkerrrrrssssss). If you feel like it's awful to draw a vial on turn 3, it's just as bad to draw a dork on turn 3 sometimes.
I feel like drawing a dork is mitigated when it has exalted.
I agree, Noble Heirarch is not a dead draw in late game.
As an aside, out of like 30 people last night, came in 5th at 4-1 (breakkkkerrrrrssssss). If you feel like it's awful to draw a vial on turn 3, it's just as bad to draw a dork on turn 3 sometimes.
I feel like drawing a dork is mitigated when it has exalted.
I agree, Noble Heirarch is not a dead draw in late game.
But not all dorks have exalted, and exalted isn't really relevant if you have a board full of 2/2's and are attacking with more than one creature (granted it's fine with voice tokens, but it's not all the time that you have them). You're also able to use vials and just not tie up mana, which I think is especially important with stirring wildwood, and all the while still be able to cast. I don't play four because I don't like to draw them often, but playing them with birds and hierarchs makes for a well rounded consistent manabase. Vials are also good against bolt in a 23 land deck (which I think is really pushing it most of the time), because how many hands do you get rid of with one land, one dork because you're dead to bolt if you don't draw out of it (with 23 lands again)? Replace that dork with a vial. It's then more often than not a keepable hand. A bit slower, yes, I'll grant you that, but there's stability that you can't actually get with the dorks, not to mention the sheer utility of it. Ugh.
I really can't say enough good things about a card that I literally side out in half my matches because it significantly improves my game 1 keepable hands vs a lot of decks.
A hand like this: Tec Edge, Aether Vial, Ghost Quarter, Noble Hierarch, Path to Exile, Leonin Arbiter, Loxodon Smiter, is a snap keep in g1 vs an unknown deck, but in a deck without Vial, you can't keep a hand like that.
Even: Horizon Canopy, Aether Vial, Loxodon Smiter, Ghost Quarter, Voice of Resurgence, Mirran Crusader, Aven Mindcensor is a great hand, and replace the vial with another dork, and it's still a great hand, provided your opponent doesn't have a bolt. Slower, yes, but more consistent.
Sometimes even drawing the second vial isn't a bad thing because you're not just windmilling your cards from your hand and instead taking the slower grindy approach to a deck, of which the second vial allows you to sit at 2-3 (or 2-4), and respond faster to sweepers.
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Un autre con brandit le drapeau de la nouvelle économie. Agitant sa criminelle thérapie, l'abruti prophá¨te s'en va guerrir le monde de ses maux ! Mais la misá¨re n'a que faire de cette médecine á dose homeopathétique, Il n'y a d'autre cure que l'ablation du liberal-fascisme qui nous ronge. - Amanda Woodward, Un Autre Con
So I am going to start testing the list I played in the tournament with the changes I've already mentioned to the sideboard, and see if I like the Rancor main deck in place of Baneslayer.
Do you plan on replacing both Baneslayer with Rancor? I can see the argument for Rancor / against Baneslayer but I think I would prefer a 1/1 split than totally get rid of the Baneslayer. She's such a game swing when she goes to work.
I must say that I prefer Batterskull to Baneslayer. Vigilance makes it much stronger against Zoo, it is much harder to remove, the token survives after a Gavony Township activation, and you can equip it to flying beaters.
I may give Batterskull a spot. I'm running less Thalia now, so the +1 tax isn't as big a deal as it used to be. I just wish I had more flyers in my build to make it better. Going to try the Baneslayer-less build with Rancor first and see how it goes. I should be able to get a start on my testing in the next 24 hours.
Long time lurker here. Been playing a version of hatebears for a while.
I've found that having 2 engineered explosives MD really can swing the game in our favor against so many threats. I don't think I would consider a build without those 2 cards in the main.
I agree, although it was pretty bad in pre board games vs my last two opposing decks (UWR and GR Tron)
Also, thanks HorseshoeCrab for those tips that you wrote. I didn't realize you could put 3 mana into , even if 2 is the same, to counter . Very awesome movie. I'll definitely have to remember those.
Thanks! I keep bugging one of my friends who has good video equipment for us to do a IRL test video. He says its too much hassle :/
Don't forget that you can also use colorless to make x = 3 but only put two counters on it, or Thalia where x = 1 and then use W/G to pay the tax for 2 counters as well.
Yes. Any combination of 3 mana would work as long as two of those are different colored mana.
I was talking to a buddy of mine last night about this deck and my showing at the tournament this past weekend. He is a smart guy. Had previously played in a Pro Tour. Now he is mostly a casual player (EDH) and doesn't really show up to events other than the occasional pre-release and some sealed tournaments. When I showed him the deck list he said he really liked it, but thought that I should have Rancor in the main deck. We talked a bit about the sideboard and main deck options. Cards I thought were good, and others that I thought could be replaced. Baneslayer is one of those cards on the chopping block that he mentioned. "I really like this card, but even with mana dorks, 5 is a lot to pay in this format. I get that she is only a 2 of since she is there as a finisher, but I think I would like to see that slot replaced with Rancor." And while I do also like Baneslayer, I've had games where I couldn't cast her due to not having the mana, or not wanting to tap out to play her. So I am going to start testing the list I played in the tournament with the changes I've already mentioned to the sideboard, and see if I like the Rancor main deck in place of Baneslayer. This will also give me something to test in the deck while I wait to see what happens at the Pro Tour.
I think Baneslayer is out of my list as well. I'll get to why in a minute...
However, I can't vouch for Rancor. It could be a sideboard option against Tokens, but then I'd recommend going for the 4th Engineered Explosives, Arashi, or Wrath.
Edit 2: I've been siding out SoWaP vs Zoo, and my opponent mentioned he thought it was a bad idea (Experiment One variant). thoughts?
I agree with your opponent. Sure, that card is pretty awkward in the early turns, but if you get to the stage of the game where both of you are out of cards, that Sword is going to win the whole thing for you. If you land Sword, suddenly your opponent has to either kill your guys before you can equip or chump so that you don't become harder to kill.
***
On Tuesday I got a few more post board games in against Merfolk. Merfolk is easily our worst match up, even after my ridiculous amount of sideboard hate.
I had EE for 2... then Merfolk played Reejery, Reejery.
I had Choke... while Merfolk had Aether Vial out and Mutavault, Cavern of Souls in play.
I cast Wrath of God to clear out 3 creatures... but Merfolk just played 2 more lords the following turn.
I stayed alive long enough to stick a Baneslayer... and then Merfolk played SPreading Seas and make the team unblockable.
I even got a Worship out in one case, but Merfolk has 4 outs to Worship with Vapor Snag!
I give up! How the heck is this match even close to winnable? All of my SB hate can be recoved from or easily hated out with cards that Merfolk plays in its main deck! Merfolk doesn't care about our hate bears in the first place, and it doesn't even need lands to play if it has a Vial out!
If the Pro Tour has this and Tokens in more than 20% of the day 2 meta, then I'm seriously considering dropping this deck completely. I have other decks, like Merfolk, that I can switch to and still have 2 weeks to prep with. I don't want to switch, but if the field is full of Fish, TOkens, Affinity, and out other rough matches, then its the right choice to make.
Sometimes you need to know when to throw in the towel. SOmetimes it just isn't the right time for a deck to be played.
***
I took yesterday off. I was really tired for some reason and went to sleep early. That means that today I have TWO sets of results to share! The first was against the GR Tron list from GP Prague.
...And now I place this as one of our worst match ups
I won only 25% of my pre board games, winning only 2 games in an 8 game set.
I know you're thinking "Why is this bad? You have land destruction and a bunch of maindeck search hate!"
The match is bad because Tron has Pyroclasm and Oblivion Stone to kill off the search hate creatures. Spellskite doesn't do anything to keep those cards alive. Tron can't do much about the Ghost Quarters, but it has so many cantrips and 4 land tutors that it can assemble Tron quite often even after 1 or 2 Ghost Quarter uses.
Last but not least, Tron CAN get there with normal land drops. Eventually it will be able to cast Wurmcoil Engines and Karns, and eventually you will run out of Paths for those Wurms.
For game 2s, I boarded in my Chalices and my Thruns. The idea was to set Chalice at 1 to keep Tron from being able to cycle through all of those Chromatic Stars and Spheres. Then maybe the search hate would be more effective...
I won more games, but the match was still heavily in Tron's favor. Funny enough, Oblivion Stone does a great job of killing our Chalice of The Voids! I only won 4 out of 12 sideboard games. Going from a 25% win rate to 33% is still not where I want to be.
***
You're seeing the pattern that I've ran into over the last 25 games. The other set I did today was against a projected update to UWR Control. The list is largely the same as it ever was, but I see it running more cards like Wear//Tear and Anger of The Gods to deal with Bitterblossoms and the creature swarms from Zoo.
I started losing this match too. Nothing makes you want to throw a deck away more than losing the majority of 30 games in a row. I won game 1 in the pre board set, then lost games 2-4 and decided something had to change.
I said "[four-letter-word] it" and switched things up:
And I started winning again. I ended up having 4 wins out of 8 games before boarding against UWR Control, with 3 of those wins coming after I changed the list to this.
Chalices came in for this match, as well as the Chokes and the singleton Torpor Orb to hit Snapcaster Mages. Board outs included the Paths, EEs, and the 1 Birds of Paradise.
GW won 9 out of 12 games against UWR after boarding, most of which were due to some combination of search hate and either Choke or Chalice for 1 limiting UWR's options.
Thrun made the difference here. While Baneslayer was an amazing card for me in a lot of other games, I always seemed to board Thrun in. Baneslayer was a bit too hard to cast, and easily dealt with due to being counterable and vulnerable to removal. Thrun was the actual finisher that I wanted. I understand that I may miss the lifegain from Baneslayer, and that may necessitate adding some number of Kitchen Finks to the 75. We'll see.
As for the other changes, I want to try Condemns as Path's #5-6 against the other fair decks and Tron. I went for Sunlance first, but then decided that I really wanted an out to Wurmcoils and Merfolk that are pumped past 3 toughness. The only big downside here is that Condemn can only hit things that are attacking us. That means a Dark Confidant will NOT be picked off by this unless it attacks. Same thing with the Twin creatures. This is NOT an answer to Pestermite or Entarch getting a Splinter Twin enchanted onto it.
I also went for Stony Silence over Creeping Corrosion. I want to re-test vs. Affinity and see if the Chalices + the 4x EEs will be enough for that match. Stony Silence also hurts Affinity, but it has uses against Pod decks and Tron.
This could become Torpor Orb #2. I saw that it was doing good work for everyone else, and it would be nice to have another "hard" piece of hate against Twin, Pod, and even Soul Sisters. I particularly like how Torpor Orb will stop Kitchen Finks in general, not just when Melira Pod is trying to go off.
Private Mod Note
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You can't always win, and just because you lose doesn't mean you played badly.
Even if you lose, it is important to remain confident in your ability to make good plays and decisions. Lose that and you are truly lost.
Testing is great, and the better the testing is, the better off you'll be.
It is impossible to tilt and play well.
It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose.
2/20 - Melira Pod re-test
2/21 - Affinity Post Board, half set vs. Tin Fins (without Fist of The Suns) & IRL games
2/22 - Big Zoo (Knight of The Reliquary instead of army of 1-drops)
2/23 - OFF
2/24 - New Pro Tour deck #1 OR Faeries Test #2 (BUG Faeries)
2/25 - Affinity re-test
2/26 - New Pro Tour deck #2 OR Scapeshift
2/27 - Big Zoo re-test OR Zoo Variant test
2/28 - New Pro Tour deck #3 OR Jund
3/1 - Burn
3/2 - OFF
3/3 - Faeries Test #3
3/4 - Fast Zoo Test #2
3/5 - Mock tournament
3/6 - Mock tournament - finalize deck list & SB plan
3/7 - GP RICHMOND - GP Trials / "Grinders"
3/8 - 3/9 - GP RICHMOND - Main Event
A lot of this plan is up in the air depending on what happens this weekend.
I'm 235 games in out of my quest to play 500 test games. Almost halfway there... only 265 games to go!
Private Mod Note
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You can't always win, and just because you lose doesn't mean you played badly.
Even if you lose, it is important to remain confident in your ability to make good plays and decisions. Lose that and you are truly lost.
Testing is great, and the better the testing is, the better off you'll be.
It is impossible to tilt and play well.
It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose.
As for the other changes, I want to try Condemns as Path's #5-6 against the other fair decks and Tron. I went for Sunlance first, but then decided that I really wanted an out to Wurmcoils and Merfolk that are pumped past 3 toughness.
Understandable to get more removal and in most cases I do like Condemn but in particular v Tron, stuffing Wurmcoil in to their deck just delays them for a turn due to Eye of Ugin. Maybe if the Eye has already been GQ'd it is effective, however.
In general, I hate Path to Exile because of the ramp it grants. Arbiters and Mindcensors help to get around that, but I'm always looking for something "better". I consider Journey to Nowhere a lot in place of Path to Exile. Is the instant speed of Path to Exile worth it currently? I'm not sure there's all that much on the board that needs to die "right this second".
As for the other changes, I want to try Condemns as Path's #5-6 against the other fair decks and Tron. I went for Sunlance first, but then decided that I really wanted an out to Wurmcoils and Merfolk that are pumped past 3 toughness.
Understandable to get more removal and in most cases I do like Condemn but in particular v Tron, stuffing Wurmcoil in to their deck just delays them for a turn due to Eye of Ugin. Maybe if the Eye has already been GQ'd it is effective, however.
In general, I hate Path to Exile because of the ramp it grants. Arbiters and Mindcensors help to get around that, but I'm always looking for something "better". I consider Journey to Nowhere a lot in place of Path to Exile. Is the instant speed of Path to Exile worth it currently? I'm not sure there's all that much on the board that needs to die "right this second".
You definitely want 4x Path to Exile. The mana ramp is usually marginal. I could care less if I gave a handful of decks another land. A lot of decks only have so many basics, and between their draw, Path and Ghost Quarter, you can run them out pretty quickly. Some decks don't even run basic lands. The part about it being an instant is also extremely relevant. It allows you to hit man lands, such as Inkmoth Nexus and Treetop Village and you can respond to plays by your opponent. It really is the best removal spell we have available, so you should be playing it. I could see maybe dropping it to a 3 of, but I certainly wouldn't cut it past that.
Yea, all good points, especially the manlands. I know in my heart I will play 4 - I'm just always questioning every card if for no other reason than to reaffirm that it is still worthwhile to play.
HorseShoeCrab - would you be willing to perform the following analysis on the decks you've practiced against?
For each match-up categorise cards as follows:
1 - I draw this card, and my chances of winning increase significantly. (average/unfavourable -> favourable)
2 - I need to draw this card in order to have a chance (unfavourable -> average)
3 - They draw this card, and my chances of winning decrease significantly (average/favourable -> unfavourable)
4 - They draw this card, and they have a chance (favourable -> average)
llamaza, i think that's really difficult to accomplish because of the variation of board states that occur.
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Un autre con brandit le drapeau de la nouvelle économie. Agitant sa criminelle thérapie, l'abruti prophá¨te s'en va guerrir le monde de ses maux ! Mais la misá¨re n'a que faire de cette médecine á dose homeopathétique, Il n'y a d'autre cure que l'ablation du liberal-fascisme qui nous ronge. - Amanda Woodward, Un Autre Con
First match went up against RDW and witnessed first hand how valuable Leonin & Ghost Quarter are as my opponent had to mully to 5 and I was able to get LA and GQ going on turn 3 to destroy land 1 of 2 then on turn 4 I drew another GQ and did took out another land to win turn 7 with Smiter to the face.
Game 2 I boarded in a Spellskite & 2 worship. Thalia and spellskite took care of this game for me and I again was able to beat down with smiter & Wilt-Leaf Liege.
2-0
Match 2 went up against my rival and 3 time defending champ with his UWR. Game 1 I had to mully to 5 as I drew no land then 1. He ends up entreat the angels on turn 7 with 6 mana so I conceded.
Game 2 I sided in RIP went a little better as I was able to beat him with smiter and had a nice board state going until he supreme verdict and the rest is history as he played Geist of St... and eventually took me out. I think I need to play the Vials full set just to beat this guy as he has gone 4-0 in the last 3 tournaments with this deck.
0-2
Match 3 went up against a home RW Miracles deck. Had to mully to 5 again and ended up getting pumped by Ajani with 2 mana and one always being tapped.
Game 2 I sided 2 Worship, game went pretty even back in forth he was dealing with my threats, until he draws Curse of Bloodletting and flashbacks a damage card that does double when flashed back and nails me for 18 damage.
0-2
Match 4 went up against a white winnie knight deck which relies heavly on knights Templar. First game for some reason tonight I got mana screwed a lot first game and I do pile shuffle every match... he ends up winning with about 6 indestructible knights down.
Game 2 I board in 3 Chalice,2 worship.. Chalice was the all star here I get it down with an extreme push with 2 Noble Hierarchs out so basically turn 3 I set it at 3 and eliminate Path of exile and knights Templars, I get a nice board going and am leading 30-2 when he destroys all creatures, which is fine until he stars sliding out 2 drops and I got 8 land no cards in hand and chalice in play. Luckly I had Horizon Canopy X2 down and 2 Ghost Quarter so I was able to sac and draw and sac and retrieve to thin out my deck. By doing that I still had 5 land and drew a 2nd chalice for which I set at 2 and pretty much stalled the board until I drew Smiter and Thrun to finish him off.
Game 3 he gets mana screwed and I flood the board with Noble Hierarch, Smiter, Linvala, and Qasali to take the win.
2-1
Overall 2-2 for 5th out of 10.
It's tough when you see a lot of home decks.. I was really expecting to see Affininty and didn't.
Chalice will remain in for next time that is for certain.
(I'll accept that there are a lot of interactions in Affinity so '3' becomes difficult to be complete. But that alpha strike poison can completely change the face of a game.
As for the other changes, I want to try Condemns as Path's #5-6 against the other fair decks and Tron. I went for Sunlance first, but then decided that I really wanted an out to Wurmcoils and Merfolk that are pumped past 3 toughness.
Understandable to get more removal and in most cases I do like Condemn but in particular v Tron, stuffing Wurmcoil in to their deck just delays them for a turn due to Eye of Ugin. Maybe if the Eye has already been GQ'd it is effective, however.
In general, I hate Path to Exile because of the ramp it grants. Arbiters and Mindcensors help to get around that, but I'm always looking for something "better". I consider Journey to Nowhere a lot in place of Path to Exile. Is the instant speed of Path to Exile worth it currently? I'm not sure there's all that much on the board that needs to die "right this second".
Good question, and I'm personally figuring out the right answer.
Let's talk about Journey To Nowhere. It costs 1W, is Sorcery-speed, and exiles a creature completely. Its not a bad card in a vacuum, and could certainly be Paths #5-6.
What are its weaknesses? The biggest issue that jumps out at me is that Journey is an Enchantment that, when killed, brings the creature back. That means against Abrupt Decay decks, the card under Journey could return. You still get a 1-for-1 trade, but now you traded your removal spell for a Abrupt Decay or even a Qasali Pridemage activation instead of for a creature.
Against RG Tron, the Tron player can pop an Oblivion Stone, kill our team, AND get a Wurmcoil back. However, is that better for us to force our opponents to "free" their Wurmcoils instead of simply being able to fetch for the same Wurmcoil with Eye of Ugin? IDK. It depends on the game in question.
Where would I want Journey To Nowhere over Condemn? I just finished a 20 game set against Melira Pod. Pod players aren't dumb. They know what creatures they control that are critical at each point in the game, and they know what needs to stick around on the field. They're not going to attack you with that Spike Feeder if they have any chance of getting an Archangel of Thune to pair with it! In this case, I really want to be able to put these combo pieces away and force the Pod player to have a Abrupt Decay or Qasali Pridemage or Harmonic Sliver to kill THAT instead of my incoming search hate or Torpor Orb.
***
Speaking of Melira Pod, I went 4-4 in the pre board set. The match feels very "skill" dependent, where I am sure that the better player is going to win this due to the number of plays available on every turn. A big thing to keep in mind is that Pod has outs to all of your hate cards. They have Shriekmaw and Murderous Redcap to kill off Linvala and a search hate creature. Also, just like Kiki-Pod this Pod deck can force the searches through Leonin Arbiter in the late game. I'm finding that I win when I am aggressive and losing when my draws are slow.
My GW list didn't have much to bring in for this match... we're kind of set in the main with cards that other decks would bring in for Pod!
IN: 2 Torpor Orb, 1 Wrath of God
OUT: 2 Thrun, 1 Spellskite
Pod boards out some of its combo engine, and brings in a 4th Voice, another Shriekmaw, and Dismembers.
The post board games are really grindy! Don't place too much stock in this result, because I really think this is the kind of match where the best plays are going to win. The cards are there for either player to win, and eventually a lot of these games come down to someone top decking into a combo or a Ooze to win.
I won 5 out of 12 post board games. I feel like this is 50/50 for the reason I stated above.
***
More tweaks after this match... Turns out that Wrath of God isn't that great in my deck. It wasn't that good against Merfolk, and it is hard to use well here due to all of the Persist creatures and Voices. Maybe I could try Hallowed Burial, but I really think that slot just needs to be something else instead. I'm going to try a Stony Silence in the SB instead of Wrath.
The mana is a little different. I saw that I have 7 creatures with 0 power, and I noticed that almost none of the major decks are packing Blood Moons to hurt my mana. We get a little room to work with. I'm going to hold onto the Okina for the time being, and switch a Forest for a Gavony Township in order to give me some options in grindy games where I have some mana dorks or Spellskites lying around.
***
Did anyone see the list that was featured in an article on the official WOTC website today?
Scroll to the bottom. I like how we got mentioned over Merfolk or even a Tron deck!
Its a bit re-assuring to see that I'm not alone with trying out Chalice of The Void. I really think that card is SICK in this format, provided you have a deck that can run it without hurting itself. Its kind of like Suppression Field in that regard.
Also note a lot of the numbers in this list match our conclusions after testing: 2 Baneslayers, 2 Avens, 3 Engineered Explosives in the 75, MD Spellskite, Worship. The biggest difference between this list and what I'm running is the Swords and Thalia. I cut Thalia months ago when Storm and Eggs were no longer top tier contenders.
***
HorseShoeCrab - would you be willing to perform the following analysis on the decks you've practiced against?
For each match-up categorise cards as follows:
1 - I draw this card, and my chances of winning increase significantly. (average/unfavourable -> favourable)
2 - I need to draw this card in order to have a chance (unfavourable -> average)
3 - They draw this card, and my chances of winning decrease significantly (average/favourable -> unfavourable)
4 - They draw this card, and they have a chance (favourable -> average)
That's an interesting way to asking "what's good against them/good against you in each match?"
I'm not going to list all the match ups. If you want a specific match up, just ask and I'll see what I can do.
UWR Control
1 - Loxodon Smiter! Its uncounterable and they usually have to either throw out one of their 2-3 Paths, or spend two burn spells to kill it, or do something cute with Snapcaster block & burn spell.
- Choke and Chalice OTV (for 1) are either amazing or just "meh" depending on what the opponent's lands and hand looks like. Sometimes these cards cripple their hands completely, and other times they're just minor set backs. The best bet for winning with these is to have a plan besides just dropping, say, a Choke against a Blue deck. The Choke is an aid, while Voice, Smiter and Thrun actually win the game.
3 - Drawing into multiple Supreme Verdicts is pretty rough for us. Before I cut Baneslayers Ajani Vengeant was a huge swing for UWR if they can tap down our biggest threat. I think the scariest thing from UWR is if they can chain Cryptic Commands and Snapcasters to the point where we're tapped down and then UWR can just swing in and burn us out.
Melira Pod - because its fresh on my mind!
1 - Torpor Orb - They can't gain life from the Kitchen Finks, or kill one of our creatures with Murderous Redcap. This is HUGE deal! Melira Pod has 3-5 outs to this in the deck, depending on what mix of Qasali Pridemage and Abrupt Decay it runs.
2 - Scavenging Ooze - It stops the main combo, but its also necessary to keep Persisted creatures from gumming up the board. Most Pod players will go for the beat down plan and try to bury you with Voices and Finks triggers instead of trying to combo once they see this card.
3 - Gavony Township or Spike Feeder - Gavony makes their creatures quickly trump ours, and Spike Feeder threatens a 2-card combo that doesn't care about Torpor Orb. If you see that the GHost Quarter plan isn't going to do much (and it doesn't with Melira's glut of 1-drop mana dorks) then save them for the Township so that they only get 1 activation at most from it.
4 - More than 1 Kitchen Finks - Pod gains a ton of life and can bog us down for several turns. The longer the game gets, the better Pod's chances of being able to secure a Gavony Township or force through a search and assemble some sort of winning combination.
GR Tron
1 - A turn 2 Leonin Arbiter / multiple search hate cards - Usually forces the Pyroclasm, but if they DON'T have it you're in decent shape.
2 - Path to Exile & Ghost Quarter - Eventually they will have either a Karn or a Wurmcoil. The Karn can be dealt with, but Wurmcoil makes it hard to win even after just one hit. You also need Ghost Quarter to hit Eye of Ugin so that Emrakul doesn't eventually come down and win on the spot.
3 - Pyroclasm - It kills our mana dorks and our search hate and even our Qasalis! This is why GR Tron is so rough for us. After boarding, they can also have Combust to deal with an individual piece of hate from us.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You can't always win, and just because you lose doesn't mean you played badly.
Even if you lose, it is important to remain confident in your ability to make good plays and decisions. Lose that and you are truly lost.
Testing is great, and the better the testing is, the better off you'll be.
It is impossible to tilt and play well.
It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose.
That's an interesting way to asking "what's good against them/good against you in each match?"
I think it's important to understand the difference between a card that locks a win, a card that gives you an advantage and even cards that are just win-more. I think it also helps adjust the numbers of cards you use, and maybe even realise that some cards aren't as good (or perhaps better) than expected.
I would suggest that based on your Pod discussion - maybe look at upping your Torpor Orb count to 3?
Anyway - thanks for what you've done so far. Perhaps need a collated version of all your testing somewhere
Another card that could perhaps find some joy for us (if we're struggling to beat silver bullets from various decks): Nevermore. I would definitely think about it if I found loads of '3' category cards in the meta. UWR: Cryptic Command, GR Tron: Pyroclasm/Wurmcoil etc. For me it would depend on whether dropping it and naming card X is a '1' or '2' play. If it was a '1' play across a bunch of match-ups I think it's a definite consideration for me. Thoughts?
I cut Thalia months ago when Storm and Eggs were no longer top tier contenders.
I still run 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben MD. I find she does one of two things when she hits the board - either she causes such a delay for the opponent that it essentially wins the game, or it draws some removal spell out of their hand and doesn't hit something more important. She seems to be one of those cards that people think they have to remove asap, even if she really doesn't impact their deck. I like her more for the mental impact than a true "hosing" like she can do on storm type decks. That being said, she's one of those cards that you can easily play around with the number to include.
Let's talk about Journey To Nowhere. It costs 1W, is Sorcery-speed, and exiles a creature completely. Its not a bad card in a vacuum, and could certainly be Paths #5-6.
What are its weaknesses? The biggest issue that jumps out at me is that Journey is an Enchantment that, when killed, brings the creature back. That means against Abrupt Decay decks, the card under Journey could return. You still get a 1-for-1 trade, but now you traded your removal spell for a Abrupt Decay or even a Qasali Pridemage activation instead of for a creature.
Against RG Tron, the Tron player can pop an Oblivion Stone, kill our team, AND get a Wurmcoil back. However, is that better for us to force our opponents to "free" their Wurmcoils instead of simply being able to fetch for the same Wurmcoil with Eye of Ugin? IDK. It depends on the game in question.
Where would I want Journey To Nowhere over Condemn? I just finished a 20 game set against Melira Pod. Pod players aren't dumb. They know what creatures they control that are critical at each point in the game, and they know what needs to stick around on the field. They're not going to attack you with that Spike Feeder if they have any chance of getting an Archangel of Thune to pair with it! In this case, I really want to be able to put these combo pieces away and force the Pod player to have a Abrupt Decay or Qasali Pridemage or Harmonic Sliver to kill THAT instead of my incoming search hate or Torpor Orb.
All of this is why I still run 4 Path to Exile. I just miss being able to play Swords to Plowshares so much and I continually look for something different and or better to put in the deck. Almost everything that you could play instead of Path to Exile suffers from the same drawback of Journey to Nowhere, unfortunately. I do consider Oust from time to time; the lifegain is irrelevant in 90% of games, and in a similar means as cards like Plow Under you gain a Timewalk-type effect. Oust could be my Path to Exile #5-6 - I just wish it was instant speed.
I feel like drawing a dork is mitigated when it has exalted.
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
I agree, Noble Heirarch is not a dead draw in late game.
But not all dorks have exalted, and exalted isn't really relevant if you have a board full of 2/2's and are attacking with more than one creature (granted it's fine with voice tokens, but it's not all the time that you have them). You're also able to use vials and just not tie up mana, which I think is especially important with stirring wildwood, and all the while still be able to cast. I don't play four because I don't like to draw them often, but playing them with birds and hierarchs makes for a well rounded consistent manabase. Vials are also good against bolt in a 23 land deck (which I think is really pushing it most of the time), because how many hands do you get rid of with one land, one dork because you're dead to bolt if you don't draw out of it (with 23 lands again)? Replace that dork with a vial. It's then more often than not a keepable hand. A bit slower, yes, I'll grant you that, but there's stability that you can't actually get with the dorks, not to mention the sheer utility of it. Ugh.
I really can't say enough good things about a card that I literally side out in half my matches because it significantly improves my game 1 keepable hands vs a lot of decks.
A hand like this: Tec Edge, Aether Vial, Ghost Quarter, Noble Hierarch, Path to Exile, Leonin Arbiter, Loxodon Smiter, is a snap keep in g1 vs an unknown deck, but in a deck without Vial, you can't keep a hand like that.
Even: Horizon Canopy, Aether Vial, Loxodon Smiter, Ghost Quarter, Voice of Resurgence, Mirran Crusader, Aven Mindcensor is a great hand, and replace the vial with another dork, and it's still a great hand, provided your opponent doesn't have a bolt. Slower, yes, but more consistent.
Sometimes even drawing the second vial isn't a bad thing because you're not just windmilling your cards from your hand and instead taking the slower grindy approach to a deck, of which the second vial allows you to sit at 2-3 (or 2-4), and respond faster to sweepers.
I must say that I prefer Batterskull to Baneslayer. Vigilance makes it much stronger against Zoo, it is much harder to remove, the token survives after a Gavony Township activation, and you can equip it to flying beaters.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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I agree, although it was pretty bad in pre board games vs my last two opposing decks (UWR and GR Tron)
Thanks! I keep bugging one of my friends who has good video equipment for us to do a IRL test video. He says its too much hassle :/
Yes. Any combination of 3 mana would work as long as two of those are different colored mana.
I think Baneslayer is out of my list as well. I'll get to why in a minute...
However, I can't vouch for Rancor. It could be a sideboard option against Tokens, but then I'd recommend going for the 4th Engineered Explosives, Arashi, or Wrath.
I agree with your opponent. Sure, that card is pretty awkward in the early turns, but if you get to the stage of the game where both of you are out of cards, that Sword is going to win the whole thing for you. If you land Sword, suddenly your opponent has to either kill your guys before you can equip or chump so that you don't become harder to kill.
***
On Tuesday I got a few more post board games in against Merfolk. Merfolk is easily our worst match up, even after my ridiculous amount of sideboard hate.
I had EE for 2... then Merfolk played Reejery, Reejery.
I had Choke... while Merfolk had Aether Vial out and Mutavault, Cavern of Souls in play.
I cast Wrath of God to clear out 3 creatures... but Merfolk just played 2 more lords the following turn.
I stayed alive long enough to stick a Baneslayer... and then Merfolk played SPreading Seas and make the team unblockable.
I even got a Worship out in one case, but Merfolk has 4 outs to Worship with Vapor Snag!
I give up! How the heck is this match even close to winnable? All of my SB hate can be recoved from or easily hated out with cards that Merfolk plays in its main deck! Merfolk doesn't care about our hate bears in the first place, and it doesn't even need lands to play if it has a Vial out!
If the Pro Tour has this and Tokens in more than 20% of the day 2 meta, then I'm seriously considering dropping this deck completely. I have other decks, like Merfolk, that I can switch to and still have 2 weeks to prep with. I don't want to switch, but if the field is full of Fish, TOkens, Affinity, and out other rough matches, then its the right choice to make.
Sometimes you need to know when to throw in the towel. SOmetimes it just isn't the right time for a deck to be played.
***
I took yesterday off. I was really tired for some reason and went to sleep early. That means that today I have TWO sets of results to share! The first was against the GR Tron list from GP Prague.
...And now I place this as one of our worst match ups
I won only 25% of my pre board games, winning only 2 games in an 8 game set.
I know you're thinking "Why is this bad? You have land destruction and a bunch of maindeck search hate!"
The match is bad because Tron has Pyroclasm and Oblivion Stone to kill off the search hate creatures. Spellskite doesn't do anything to keep those cards alive. Tron can't do much about the Ghost Quarters, but it has so many cantrips and 4 land tutors that it can assemble Tron quite often even after 1 or 2 Ghost Quarter uses.
Last but not least, Tron CAN get there with normal land drops. Eventually it will be able to cast Wurmcoil Engines and Karns, and eventually you will run out of Paths for those Wurms.
For game 2s, I boarded in my Chalices and my Thruns. The idea was to set Chalice at 1 to keep Tron from being able to cycle through all of those Chromatic Stars and Spheres. Then maybe the search hate would be more effective...
I won more games, but the match was still heavily in Tron's favor. Funny enough, Oblivion Stone does a great job of killing our Chalice of The Voids! I only won 4 out of 12 sideboard games. Going from a 25% win rate to 33% is still not where I want to be.
***
You're seeing the pattern that I've ran into over the last 25 games. The other set I did today was against a projected update to UWR Control. The list is largely the same as it ever was, but I see it running more cards like Wear//Tear and Anger of The Gods to deal with Bitterblossoms and the creature swarms from Zoo.
I started losing this match too. Nothing makes you want to throw a deck away more than losing the majority of 30 games in a row. I won game 1 in the pre board set, then lost games 2-4 and decided something had to change.
I said "[four-letter-word] it" and switched things up:
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Path to Exile
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Choke
1 Torpor Orb
1 Wrath of God
1 Stony Silence
2 Condemn
And I started winning again. I ended up having 4 wins out of 8 games before boarding against UWR Control, with 3 of those wins coming after I changed the list to this.
Chalices came in for this match, as well as the Chokes and the singleton Torpor Orb to hit Snapcaster Mages. Board outs included the Paths, EEs, and the 1 Birds of Paradise.
GW won 9 out of 12 games against UWR after boarding, most of which were due to some combination of search hate and either Choke or Chalice for 1 limiting UWR's options.
Thrun made the difference here. While Baneslayer was an amazing card for me in a lot of other games, I always seemed to board Thrun in. Baneslayer was a bit too hard to cast, and easily dealt with due to being counterable and vulnerable to removal. Thrun was the actual finisher that I wanted. I understand that I may miss the lifegain from Baneslayer, and that may necessitate adding some number of Kitchen Finks to the 75. We'll see.
As for the other changes, I want to try Condemns as Path's #5-6 against the other fair decks and Tron. I went for Sunlance first, but then decided that I really wanted an out to Wurmcoils and Merfolk that are pumped past 3 toughness. The only big downside here is that Condemn can only hit things that are attacking us. That means a Dark Confidant will NOT be picked off by this unless it attacks. Same thing with the Twin creatures. This is NOT an answer to Pestermite or Entarch getting a Splinter Twin enchanted onto it.
I also went for Stony Silence over Creeping Corrosion. I want to re-test vs. Affinity and see if the Chalices + the 4x EEs will be enough for that match. Stony Silence also hurts Affinity, but it has uses against Pod decks and Tron.
This could become Torpor Orb #2. I saw that it was doing good work for everyone else, and it would be nice to have another "hard" piece of hate against Twin, Pod, and even Soul Sisters. I particularly like how Torpor Orb will stop Kitchen Finks in general, not just when Melira Pod is trying to go off.
~ Brian DeMars
2/20 - Melira Pod re-test
2/21 - Affinity Post Board, half set vs. Tin Fins (without Fist of The Suns) & IRL games
2/22 - Big Zoo (Knight of The Reliquary instead of army of 1-drops)
2/23 - OFF
2/24 - New Pro Tour deck #1 OR Faeries Test #2 (BUG Faeries)
2/25 - Affinity re-test
2/26 - New Pro Tour deck #2 OR Scapeshift
2/27 - Big Zoo re-test OR Zoo Variant test
2/28 - New Pro Tour deck #3 OR Jund
3/1 - Burn
3/2 - OFF
3/3 - Faeries Test #3
3/4 - Fast Zoo Test #2
3/5 - Mock tournament
3/6 - Mock tournament - finalize deck list & SB plan
3/7 - GP RICHMOND - GP Trials / "Grinders"
3/8 - 3/9 - GP RICHMOND - Main Event
A lot of this plan is up in the air depending on what happens this weekend.
I'm 235 games in out of my quest to play 500 test games. Almost halfway there... only 265 games to go!
~ Brian DeMars
Understandable to get more removal and in most cases I do like Condemn but in particular v Tron, stuffing Wurmcoil in to their deck just delays them for a turn due to Eye of Ugin. Maybe if the Eye has already been GQ'd it is effective, however.
In general, I hate Path to Exile because of the ramp it grants. Arbiters and Mindcensors help to get around that, but I'm always looking for something "better". I consider Journey to Nowhere a lot in place of Path to Exile. Is the instant speed of Path to Exile worth it currently? I'm not sure there's all that much on the board that needs to die "right this second".
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Spellskite
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Thrun, the last troll
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Baneslayer Angel
4 Path to Exile
4 spells
2 Brushland
3 Forest
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Chalice of the void
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Kataki, war's rage
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Spellskite
1 Rest in Peace
2 Worship
2 Creeping Corrosion
I plan to see mainly homemade decks with a few net decks. Affinity, Merfolk, Soul sisters, UWR, white weenie,RDW, black death,
I may cut Mirran's from both sideboard and main.
You definitely want 4x Path to Exile. The mana ramp is usually marginal. I could care less if I gave a handful of decks another land. A lot of decks only have so many basics, and between their draw, Path and Ghost Quarter, you can run them out pretty quickly. Some decks don't even run basic lands. The part about it being an instant is also extremely relevant. It allows you to hit man lands, such as Inkmoth Nexus and Treetop Village and you can respond to plays by your opponent. It really is the best removal spell we have available, so you should be playing it. I could see maybe dropping it to a 3 of, but I certainly wouldn't cut it past that.
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For each match-up categorise cards as follows:
1 - I draw this card, and my chances of winning increase significantly. (average/unfavourable -> favourable)
2 - I need to draw this card in order to have a chance (unfavourable -> average)
3 - They draw this card, and my chances of winning decrease significantly (average/favourable -> unfavourable)
4 - They draw this card, and they have a chance (favourable -> average)
First match went up against RDW and witnessed first hand how valuable Leonin & Ghost Quarter are as my opponent had to mully to 5 and I was able to get LA and GQ going on turn 3 to destroy land 1 of 2 then on turn 4 I drew another GQ and did took out another land to win turn 7 with Smiter to the face.
Game 2 I boarded in a Spellskite & 2 worship. Thalia and spellskite took care of this game for me and I again was able to beat down with smiter & Wilt-Leaf Liege.
2-0
Match 2 went up against my rival and 3 time defending champ with his UWR. Game 1 I had to mully to 5 as I drew no land then 1. He ends up entreat the angels on turn 7 with 6 mana so I conceded.
Game 2 I sided in RIP went a little better as I was able to beat him with smiter and had a nice board state going until he supreme verdict and the rest is history as he played Geist of St... and eventually took me out. I think I need to play the Vials full set just to beat this guy as he has gone 4-0 in the last 3 tournaments with this deck.
0-2
Match 3 went up against a home RW Miracles deck. Had to mully to 5 again and ended up getting pumped by Ajani with 2 mana and one always being tapped.
Game 2 I sided 2 Worship, game went pretty even back in forth he was dealing with my threats, until he draws Curse of Bloodletting and flashbacks a damage card that does double when flashed back and nails me for 18 damage.
0-2
Match 4 went up against a white winnie knight deck which relies heavly on knights Templar. First game for some reason tonight I got mana screwed a lot first game and I do pile shuffle every match... he ends up winning with about 6 indestructible knights down.
Game 2 I board in 3 Chalice,2 worship.. Chalice was the all star here I get it down with an extreme push with 2 Noble Hierarchs out so basically turn 3 I set it at 3 and eliminate Path of exile and knights Templars, I get a nice board going and am leading 30-2 when he destroys all creatures, which is fine until he stars sliding out 2 drops and I got 8 land no cards in hand and chalice in play. Luckly I had Horizon Canopy X2 down and 2 Ghost Quarter so I was able to sac and draw and sac and retrieve to thin out my deck. By doing that I still had 5 land and drew a 2nd chalice for which I set at 2 and pretty much stalled the board until I drew Smiter and Thrun to finish him off.
Game 3 he gets mana screwed and I flood the board with Noble Hierarch, Smiter, Linvala, and Qasali to take the win.
2-1
Overall 2-2 for 5th out of 10.
It's tough when you see a lot of home decks.. I was really expecting to see Affininty and didn't.
Chalice will remain in for next time that is for certain.
Let me give an example of how I think it would look vs. Affinity:
1 - Stony Silence
2 - Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Qasali Pridemage
3 - Inkmoth Nexus plus Cranial Plating or Arcbound Ravager
4 - n/a
(I'll accept that there are a lot of interactions in Affinity so '3' becomes difficult to be complete. But that alpha strike poison can completely change the face of a game.
Just looking at HSC's post above - for UWR control:
1 -
2 - Choke, Chalice of the Void (X = 1), Leonin Arbiter, Aven Mindcensor
(perhaps HSC would be able to suggest whether any of these are in fact '1' category cards)
3 - Supreme Verdict
4 - n/a
Good question, and I'm personally figuring out the right answer.
Let's talk about Journey To Nowhere. It costs 1W, is Sorcery-speed, and exiles a creature completely. Its not a bad card in a vacuum, and could certainly be Paths #5-6.
What are its weaknesses? The biggest issue that jumps out at me is that Journey is an Enchantment that, when killed, brings the creature back. That means against Abrupt Decay decks, the card under Journey could return. You still get a 1-for-1 trade, but now you traded your removal spell for a Abrupt Decay or even a Qasali Pridemage activation instead of for a creature.
Against RG Tron, the Tron player can pop an Oblivion Stone, kill our team, AND get a Wurmcoil back. However, is that better for us to force our opponents to "free" their Wurmcoils instead of simply being able to fetch for the same Wurmcoil with Eye of Ugin? IDK. It depends on the game in question.
Where would I want Journey To Nowhere over Condemn? I just finished a 20 game set against Melira Pod. Pod players aren't dumb. They know what creatures they control that are critical at each point in the game, and they know what needs to stick around on the field. They're not going to attack you with that Spike Feeder if they have any chance of getting an Archangel of Thune to pair with it! In this case, I really want to be able to put these combo pieces away and force the Pod player to have a Abrupt Decay or Qasali Pridemage or Harmonic Sliver to kill THAT instead of my incoming search hate or Torpor Orb.
***
Speaking of Melira Pod, I went 4-4 in the pre board set. The match feels very "skill" dependent, where I am sure that the better player is going to win this due to the number of plays available on every turn. A big thing to keep in mind is that Pod has outs to all of your hate cards. They have Shriekmaw and Murderous Redcap to kill off Linvala and a search hate creature. Also, just like Kiki-Pod this Pod deck can force the searches through Leonin Arbiter in the late game. I'm finding that I win when I am aggressive and losing when my draws are slow.
My GW list didn't have much to bring in for this match... we're kind of set in the main with cards that other decks would bring in for Pod!
IN: 2 Torpor Orb, 1 Wrath of God
OUT: 2 Thrun, 1 Spellskite
Pod boards out some of its combo engine, and brings in a 4th Voice, another Shriekmaw, and Dismembers.
The post board games are really grindy! Don't place too much stock in this result, because I really think this is the kind of match where the best plays are going to win. The cards are there for either player to win, and eventually a lot of these games come down to someone top decking into a combo or a Ooze to win.
I won 5 out of 12 post board games. I feel like this is 50/50 for the reason I stated above.
***
More tweaks after this match... Turns out that Wrath of God isn't that great in my deck. It wasn't that good against Merfolk, and it is hard to use well here due to all of the Persist creatures and Voices. Maybe I could try Hallowed Burial, but I really think that slot just needs to be something else instead. I'm going to try a Stony Silence in the SB instead of Wrath.
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Gavony Township
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Choke
2 Torpor Orb
2 Condemn
1 Stony Silence
The mana is a little different. I saw that I have 7 creatures with 0 power, and I noticed that almost none of the major decks are packing Blood Moons to hurt my mana. We get a little room to work with. I'm going to hold onto the Okina for the time being, and switch a Forest for a Gavony Township in order to give me some options in grindy games where I have some mana dorks or Spellskites lying around.
***
Did anyone see the list that was featured in an article on the official WOTC website today?
Link
Scroll to the bottom. I like how we got mentioned over Merfolk or even a Tron deck!
Its a bit re-assuring to see that I'm not alone with trying out Chalice of The Void. I really think that card is SICK in this format, provided you have a deck that can run it without hurting itself. Its kind of like Suppression Field in that regard.
Also note a lot of the numbers in this list match our conclusions after testing: 2 Baneslayers, 2 Avens, 3 Engineered Explosives in the 75, MD Spellskite, Worship. The biggest difference between this list and what I'm running is the Swords and Thalia. I cut Thalia months ago when Storm and Eggs were no longer top tier contenders.
***
That's an interesting way to asking "what's good against them/good against you in each match?"
I'm not going to list all the match ups. If you want a specific match up, just ask and I'll see what I can do.
UWR Control
1 - Loxodon Smiter! Its uncounterable and they usually have to either throw out one of their 2-3 Paths, or spend two burn spells to kill it, or do something cute with Snapcaster block & burn spell.
- Choke and Chalice OTV (for 1) are either amazing or just "meh" depending on what the opponent's lands and hand looks like. Sometimes these cards cripple their hands completely, and other times they're just minor set backs. The best bet for winning with these is to have a plan besides just dropping, say, a Choke against a Blue deck. The Choke is an aid, while Voice, Smiter and Thrun actually win the game.
3 - Drawing into multiple Supreme Verdicts is pretty rough for us. Before I cut Baneslayers Ajani Vengeant was a huge swing for UWR if they can tap down our biggest threat. I think the scariest thing from UWR is if they can chain Cryptic Commands and Snapcasters to the point where we're tapped down and then UWR can just swing in and burn us out.
Melira Pod - because its fresh on my mind!
1 - Torpor Orb - They can't gain life from the Kitchen Finks, or kill one of our creatures with Murderous Redcap. This is HUGE deal! Melira Pod has 3-5 outs to this in the deck, depending on what mix of Qasali Pridemage and Abrupt Decay it runs.
2 - Scavenging Ooze - It stops the main combo, but its also necessary to keep Persisted creatures from gumming up the board. Most Pod players will go for the beat down plan and try to bury you with Voices and Finks triggers instead of trying to combo once they see this card.
3 - Gavony Township or Spike Feeder - Gavony makes their creatures quickly trump ours, and Spike Feeder threatens a 2-card combo that doesn't care about Torpor Orb. If you see that the GHost Quarter plan isn't going to do much (and it doesn't with Melira's glut of 1-drop mana dorks) then save them for the Township so that they only get 1 activation at most from it.
4 - More than 1 Kitchen Finks - Pod gains a ton of life and can bog us down for several turns. The longer the game gets, the better Pod's chances of being able to secure a Gavony Township or force through a search and assemble some sort of winning combination.
GR Tron
1 - A turn 2 Leonin Arbiter / multiple search hate cards - Usually forces the Pyroclasm, but if they DON'T have it you're in decent shape.
2 - Path to Exile & Ghost Quarter - Eventually they will have either a Karn or a Wurmcoil. The Karn can be dealt with, but Wurmcoil makes it hard to win even after just one hit. You also need Ghost Quarter to hit Eye of Ugin so that Emrakul doesn't eventually come down and win on the spot.
3 - Pyroclasm - It kills our mana dorks and our search hate and even our Qasalis! This is why GR Tron is so rough for us. After boarding, they can also have Combust to deal with an individual piece of hate from us.
~ Brian DeMars
I think it's important to understand the difference between a card that locks a win, a card that gives you an advantage and even cards that are just win-more. I think it also helps adjust the numbers of cards you use, and maybe even realise that some cards aren't as good (or perhaps better) than expected.
I would suggest that based on your Pod discussion - maybe look at upping your Torpor Orb count to 3?
Anyway - thanks for what you've done so far. Perhaps need a collated version of all your testing somewhere
Another card that could perhaps find some joy for us (if we're struggling to beat silver bullets from various decks): Nevermore. I would definitely think about it if I found loads of '3' category cards in the meta. UWR: Cryptic Command, GR Tron: Pyroclasm/Wurmcoil etc. For me it would depend on whether dropping it and naming card X is a '1' or '2' play. If it was a '1' play across a bunch of match-ups I think it's a definite consideration for me. Thoughts?
I still run 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben MD. I find she does one of two things when she hits the board - either she causes such a delay for the opponent that it essentially wins the game, or it draws some removal spell out of their hand and doesn't hit something more important. She seems to be one of those cards that people think they have to remove asap, even if she really doesn't impact their deck. I like her more for the mental impact than a true "hosing" like she can do on storm type decks. That being said, she's one of those cards that you can easily play around with the number to include.
All of this is why I still run 4 Path to Exile. I just miss being able to play Swords to Plowshares so much and I continually look for something different and or better to put in the deck. Almost everything that you could play instead of Path to Exile suffers from the same drawback of Journey to Nowhere, unfortunately. I do consider Oust from time to time; the lifegain is irrelevant in 90% of games, and in a similar means as cards like Plow Under you gain a Timewalk-type effect. Oust could be my Path to Exile #5-6 - I just wish it was instant speed.
Deck // Players // % of Field
Zoo // 64 // 16.16%
Twin // 45 // 11.36%
Melira Pod // 33 // 8.33%
W/U/R Flash // 29 // 7.32%
Jund // 27 // 6.81%
Hexproof Auras // 24 // 6.06%
Affinity // 22 // 5.55%
Burn // 15 // 3.78%
Scapeshift // 14 // 3.53%
Living End // 14 // 3.53%
Storm // 12 // 3.03%
WUR Control // 10 // 2.52%
Kiki Pod // 10 // 2.52%
Merfolk // 8 // 2.02%
Blue Moon // 8 // 2.02%
Tron // 8 // 2.02%
Infect // 7 // 1.76%
Faeries // 6 // 1.51%
Amulet // 5 // 1.26%
W/U Control // 5 // 1.26%
Other // 30 // 7.57%
I will be doing a breakdown of our card pool vs those 20 decks soon.
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