G(r) Tron

  • #1
    Hello everyone! There were a few issues with the old Tron thread, so I took the opportunity to make a new, fresh one. This thread is intended to be a short guide for new players to this deck, but also an open forum to discuss some of the more intricate parts of the deck.

    What is G(r) Tron?

    Tron is a (mainly) green deck that's goal is to assemble the Urzatron (Urza's Tower, Urza's Mine, and Urza's Power Plant) as quickly as possible. Once they have been assembled, the goal is to generate insurmountable advantage. The main route to this is Karn Liberated, who is the cornerstone to the deck (yes, just as much as the Tron lands themselves). Once Karn takes the field, it becomes difficult or impossible for opponents to retake the game. A T3 Karn is this deck's goal, and often seals the game on the spot. Other than Karn, this deck has perhaps the best inevitability in the format. When you're done assembling the Urzatron with your land search, you can search out Eye of Ugin which in turn searches out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Generally castable between turns 6 and 8, this single card makes sure that your opponents can never even hope to stall you out.

    This deck runs red almost strictly for Pyroclasm, which turns a lot of mediocre matchups into amazing (with what amount to 2-mana Wrath of Gods). Pyroclasm is one of the best "metagame spells" in Modern, and this deck uses full advantage of that. Additionally, since Tron deals with advantage and inevitability (as opposed to dealing with your opponents' life totals), Grove of the Burnwillows is for all intents and purposes a Taiga (a land that unconditionally taps for R or G with absolutely no drawbacks).

    Why Should I Play This Deck?
    RG Tron is fast, consistent, and has the best lategame in all of Modern (yes, that's right - ALL of Modern). It has generally positive matchups against all decks other than fast combo and extremely fast aggro (Burn, Infect - Zoo isn't really a problem). It has the unique distinction of being perhaps the only deck in Modern with a strictly positive MU against Melira Pod, both pre-board and post-board. Additionally, it's a relatively simple deck to pick up, while still holding a lot of intricacies in terms of its card choices, and large decision trees rising from certain corner-case scenarios.

    Finally, playing with Karn Liberated is a blast.

    Sample Lists
    For those who immediately want to see examples of successful RG Tron builds, look no further:


    The Core

    With our purpose laid out, let us examine the "core" of RG Tron (you will have a very difficult time playing this deck without ANY of these cards). The core of RG Tron is as follows:

    4 Urza's Tower
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    Rather self-explanatory. This deck's goal is to assemble a turn 3 Tron, and these form Tron.

    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    As was stated above, your opponent's life total simply does not matter when you play Tron. This deck can actually win through infinite life fairly easily (for more info, go to the "Strategies" section). As such, Grove of the Burnwillows is a Taiga. And while there are budget replacements, there are no good replacements for this card. When you play Tron, you'll quickly realize how important each point of life you have is, against both aggressive strategies, as well as damage-based combo. As such, you'll need to savor every point of it. This is why Tron will generally run 0 cards that deal itself damage or force it to pay life.

    4 Expedition Map
    4 Sylvan Scrying
    For most intents and purposes the same card, these 8 tutors are what allows Tron to assemble its game-winning combination with such consistency. Expedition Map is often preferred, both for its non-reliance on colored mana sources, and the fact that it can be tutored with Ancient Stirrings (which will be mentioned later). Some people cut 1 Sylvan Scrying, but it's not something I can personally recommend. Not only does it slightly cut down on your consistency, but it also opens you up to people removing your Tron pieces without recourse.

    4 Karn Liberated
    This deck is often called "KarnTron". After assembling your early tron, your #1 goal is to land one of these. The advantage gained by exiling your opponents' hands and fields is enormous. Not only that, but his ultimate will win you the game from the most dire circumstances, so just +4'ing him is its own form of pressure. To see how to play with Karn, go to the "Strategy" section.

    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    This is what I like to call the "inevitability package". Tron's not the fastest combo deck out there. There are certainly faster combo decks in Modern. However, none of those decks can offer the pure inevitability offered by landing an Eye of Ugin followed by an Emrakul. Neither counterable, this package will ensure your opponent's defeat (provided the game lasts long enough). Emrakul, except for in very limited scenarios (such as Cryptic Command or Deceiver Exarch backed up by lethal) will literally win you the game on the spot, through its annihilator trigger, flying, uncounterability, extra turn, protection, and 15/15 body.

    4 Ancient Stirrings
    With the exception of Pyroclasm and perhaps your other tutors, every card in this deck is colorless. All your threats are colorless, and more importantly, so are your lands. This makes Ancient Stirrings both a Tron piece tutor in the early game, as well as a tutor for your threats and win conditions later in the game. Perhaps the best comparison to make to this card is Impulse, one of the most infamous and powerful card selection spells in the game. In this deck, Ancient Stirrings is a sorcery-speed Impulse that looks at an extra card for half the cost. Yes, it's that good.

    4 Chromatic Star
    2-4 Chromatic Sphere
    These are often called the "eggs". If you've read up to here, you'll notice we're only playing 4 colored sources, and a whole host of colored spells. These "eggs" turn the colorless mana from your Tron pieces to whatever colors you need. If you're just starting out, you should play a full 8. Some players more experienced with the deck have dropped to 6-7 (in which you drop the Spheres first), but I (and many more players who are also familiar with this deck) would never drop below the full 8. As each "cantrips", or replaces itself with a card, they both fix your mana and replace themselves in exchange for either one unimportant colorless mana in the early game, or one (mostly) meaningless mana once you assemble Tron. A staple for the deck.

    4 Pyroclasm
    Hailing back from Ice Age, Pyroclasm (often abbreviated to Clasm) is the card that gives us such an edge vs. most aggressive decks out there. An early Pyroclasm will lay off the pressure until you can assemble Tron and start truly dominating the game. Firespout is a considerable alternative, if you really need to deal that extra point of damage, but it is usually just too slow.

    The Cards You Will Generally Play
    Apart from the "core" mentioned above, there are a number of cards that generally deserve a space in your list. However, if you really need room for other cards, these are the cards that should be cut before the ones above.
    3 Wurmcoil Engine
    As was mentioned above (and will be discussed more in-depth later), the decks Tron loses to are generally those that are faster than it. Of these, a good portion are aggressive decks, that seek to deal damage to you quickly with creatures and burn spells. Wurmcoil is a brick wall against these decks. Not only does he stop your opponents' attacks, but often deals more damage by attacking than your opponent will be able to deal back by attacking you. As this deck has to also worry about combo decks, the correct number of MD Wurmcoils is usually 3. Just remember that these cards become not that good in every matchup where your life total no longer matters (such as combo). Weak to Path to Exile, but other than that, a real all-star.

    2-4 Oblivion Stone
    A card that once was regarded as strictly an EDH staple, Oblivion Stone shines brightly in RG Tron. It deals with all the creatures that are just too big for Pyroclasm to deal with, as well as pesky Artifacts, Enchantments, and Planeswalkers. Additionally, being able to be cast and activated for separate "installments" of 3 and 5 allows it to be playable even without the full Tron assembled. In fact, it is a great way to deal with opposing Blood Moons. As has been stated throughout this whole primer, Tron is focused on advantage and inevitability. O-Stone gives you valuable turns to make sure you get to your inevitability. Most decks should run 3, even 4.

    2-4 Relic of Progenitus
    Providing general utility, Relic of Progenitus is a card that just makes RG Tron "tick". Its exile effect can be key to killing Goyfs with Pyroclasm (again, see the strategy section), stopping Deathrite Shamans and Snapcaster Mages, as well as countering Goryo's Vengeance and nullifying Past in Flames. It has been said by many that Modern is a "graveyard-reliant format". Like Pyroclasm, Relic is a card that seeks to punish that particular soft spot in Modern. In matchups where it isn't relevant, it will still "cycle" (or replace itself). While you probably want a couple in your MD, 1-2 copies will generally be some of the first cards to be dropped for interesting "tech" additions.

    1 Ghost Quarter
    As you look over many Tron lists, you will often see a lonely Ghost Quarter wandering in their midsts. You may be wondering what could possibly cause people to want to run a THIRTEENTH colorless land (after the 12 Tron pieces). There is one answer: Ghost Quarter is THAT good. Ghost Quarter does a few things. The first, and most important, is that it kills manlands. "Manlands," or lands that turn into creatures, are very troublesome for Tron. They can't be dealt with by Pyroclasm or Oblivion Stone, and provide those decks with inevitability in the form of constant, hard-to-interact-with damage. Ghost Quarter comes in and puts an end to these problems. Only 1 is needed, as in can be searched with via any of the 8 land tutors. Additionally, it disrupts your opponent's Tron in the mirror, it mana-fixes yourself in a pinch, and it can even stop Sowing Salts. A real role-player, and hard to go without.

    1-2 Forest
    Good old basic lands. The things that stop your opponents' Path to Exiles from becoming better Swords to Plowshares, and your opponents' Ghost Quarters from becoming Strip Mines. You'll want 1-2 of these in your deck, for both the above reasons as well as being green-producing lands 5-6, and being able to break out your board hate vs Blood Moon (through Expedition Map).

    1 Llanowar Wastes
    Helps cast Slaughter Games out of the board. Not as good vs Path or GQ as a basic land, though.

    The "Tech"
    These are the cards you will see show up every once in a while. Some may be very good, even. But because they for whatever reason aren't as prolific as the above cards, they fall into neither of the above categories.
    "">1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    There is a large gap between the 6-mana Wurmcoil Engine and the 15-mana Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Ulamog exists to fit that gap quite nicely. Providing immediate value in permanent destruction (against opposing Path to Exiles) and built-in protection (against almost everything but opposing Path to Exiles and Lilianas), Ulamog serves as a nice "in-between". If you untap with Ulamog, you will generally win the game off his Annihilator 4 trigger. Additionally, costing exactly 9 mana with an Eye of Ugin out, he curves out nicely from T3 Tron, T4 Eye-tutor, T5 (any Tron piece), Ulamog. However, Ulamog suffers from being in an "in-between" spot. He is neither strict inevitability, nor something that can be cast off Tron, or even Tron + 1 extra piece.

    1-4 Prophetic Prism
    Sometimes put in place of the Relics (or Eggs), these cards both replace themselves and provide a reliable source of colored mana. Crucial in the "Slaver Tron" build (for more info, see below).

    1-4 All Is Dust
    Run instead of or in additon to Oblivion Stone, All Is Dust offers a similar effect. Its advantages are that the permanents are sacrificed (getting around indestructibility and totem armor), and that it leaves your colorless nonland permanents intact. Additionally, it can be cast strictly off Tron (costs 1 less total - 7 vs a total of 8), and it can be cast for Eye of Ugin + 5 mana without Tron. However, its downside is that it cannot be used at instant speed, it cannot be paid in installments, and it is considerably worse in a couple matchups (such as the Affinity MU). Because of its poor showing in the Affinity MU, it is generally run in addition to a full complement of O-Stones if at all.

    1-2 Sundering Titan
    Generally played by our blue counterparts, Sundering Titan shines less in RG Tron, where the plan is to eventually go for Emrakul. Generally, Ulamog is the better card in this slot. However, Sundering Titan is actually better vs Path to Exile, and also deals nicely with Scapeshift (if it manages to resolve). Often played with Cavern of Souls for that reason. Possible option for Path-heavy metas.

    1-2 Cavern of Souls
    An option for resolving your bombs in counter-heavy metas (takes the place of a flex land).

    1-2 Tectonic Edge
    An option for "strict" land removal, unlike Ghost Quarter. However, is worse at taking out manlands like Inkmoth Nexus or keeping mirror opponents off Tron. Not generally recommended.

    1-2 Platinum Angel
    Good in some MUs like Infect, but generally a worse Wurmcoil Engine.

    1-4 Thragtusk
    Faster lifegain vs. RDW and Zoo, but really suffers from not being colorless (for Ancient Stirrings), as well as not being able to be cast strictly off Tron/colorless sources. Like above, will many times be a worse Wurmcoil Engine.

    1-4 Batterskull
    Basically Wurmcoils 5-8 (also worse than Wurmcoil Engine). Is better vs Path to Exile, but is smaller and more prone to "regular" removal unless you keep mana up. Vigilance is a plus, but generally not a great card in the deck. May see some SB play as Wurmcoils 5-8.

    1-4 Mindslaver
    Mindslaver outside of Slaver Tron (see below) is a strange one. A lot of times it functions as a 10-mana Time Warp, which isn't too exciting. But some people run it anyway.

    A variant of RG Tron, RG Slaver Tron is an RG Tron variant that forgoes the conventional Pyroclasms, Oblivion Stones, and even Relic of Progenitus for Prophetic Prism, Talisman of Impulse, and Mindslaver. It additionally cuts one of the flex lands for an Academy Ruins, so it can assemble the Slaver lock via Slaver/Prism/Ruins. This variant has better combo MUs (as it's not running dead sweepers), but it sacrifices the sweepers for a worse aggro MU. Generally considered not as good against an open meta as the regular Tron, Slaver Tron shines more in combo-heavy metas. It generally runs the cut Pyroclasms in the SB.

    Another variant, mono-green Tron is a Tron version that cuts the red splash for even more cantrips. It runs cards like Gitaxian Probe and Mishra's Bauble in order to try and assemble Tron more consistently. Instead of Pyroclasms, it runs a full complement of All Is Dusts in order to function as sweepers 5-8. It runs a couple Mindslavers as well, and may not run as many Wurmcoils. Additionally runs Sundering Titan and/or additional Eldrazi.

    Sideboarding
    These are some cards that generally see play in RG Tron's sideboard.
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    It is often the correct play to play 4 Wurmcoils before MD and SB. You can bring in the rest vs aggressive decks, such as Zoo, Burn, etc.

    1-2 Relic of Progenitus
    Likewise, Relics that do not make it to the MD often get pushed to the SB.

    3-4 Nature's Claim
    As was stated earlier, your opponent's life total is irrelevant when playing Tron. Therefore, Nature's Claim is a near-strictly better Naturalize (in the sense that it kills things for half the cost AND you can blow up your own stuff in order to gain life). A staple at blowing up irritating "hate" cards such as Stony Silence and Blood Moon. It is also good vs. Twin and Affinity, and alright against Pod and Infect (it blows up Inkmoth Nexus).

    2-4 Slaughter Games
    As you see this, you may be wondering what a black card is doing in an RG deck. Remember those 8 eggs we were playing? They help us cast this too. Some people also run 1 Llanowar Wastes to tutor off their Maps/Scryings. Now that we've explained how this card is cast, it should be explained how INSANE this card is. It is our saving grace vs. Scapeshift and Storm (generally very poor match-ups), and extremely powerful vs. Splinter Twin combo as well. The fact that it can't be countered is what makes it so great - most of the decks we cast this against run many counters. Other than this card being instrumental in the combo MU, it is also excellent in the mirror, naming Karn Liberated (for more info, see the "Match-Up Analysis" section).

    2-3 Spellskite
    This card has been universally acclaimed in Modern. An expert at redirecting anything and everything, as well as being a wall, firmly puts this card in the top sideboard slots for RG Tron. Against Infect (potentially our worst MU), it stops all their pump spells for 2 life each. Against Scapeshift, it requires them to have extra lands to "go off". Against Splinter Twin, it makes them get rid of it before they can play their namesake card. Can also function as a regular wall when you feel necessary. Can be tutored with Eye of Ugin and Ancient Stirrings.

    2-3 Torpor Orb
    A key card against Pod and Twin. These decks are completely shut down until they can find an effective way to deal with this card.

    2-3 Combust
    This card is powerful vs Twin and Kiki-Pod, as it can remove their targets without being countered. Can also do significant splash damage vs Restoration Angel control or similar decks.

    2-3 Surgical Extraction
    Similar to Slaughter Games, except that it cannot preemptively hit your opponents' combos, and can be countered. However, it can be cast for free, and in conjunction with Ghost Quarter, it can extract opposing nonbasic lands.

    1-3 Beast Within
    Great in the mirror, where it deals with both Tron pieces and Karns. Also good vs decks with must-deal-with permanents (especially combo decks, where you aren't too afraid of giving away 3/3 beasts).

    1-3 Mindslaver
    A recent addition to the board, Mindslaver is supposed to be a lifesaver vs. combo and control. While it's often better than the sweepers already in the deck, I honestly prefer Slaughter Games/Surgical Extraction in these slots (as Control's almost an auto-win for this deck, and Games/Extraction are better vs Combo).

    Strategy
    Tips and tricks for playing the deck.
    How to play with Karn Liberated
    Playing with Karn is fairly simple once you get used to it, but takes some getting used-to. Basically, against any deck that has the potential to deal 3 to it, you want to +4 immediately. Keeping Karn alive is KEY to winning the game. Against any deck that can't damage Karn, you generally want to do what makes the most impact on the game (-3 if that's getting rid of a permanent, +4 if it's forcing them to pitch a card, or to scramble to his ult). Finally, if you're really up against the wall against damage-dealing decks, it may be the correct play to -3 Karn immediately. But realize that this is a desperation tactic, and it will generally end up with Karn trading with that permanent (and 3 points of damage).

    How to play with your Eggs (Chromatic Star, Chromatic Sphere)
    While it may be tempting to crack these ASAP (after you cast them), realize that they're essentially "free" to crack (they cost 1 mana to make one mana). Therefore, there are many points in the game where you'll want to "save" them for when you need to cast color spells. However, if you need to dig, or the game gets late enough, it can also be the correct play to crack them ASAP.

    Beating Infinite Life
    Some Modern decks, such as Melira Pod, try to "win" the game through gaining infinite life. However, RG Tron can easily beat "infinite life". First, you get out one of your Eldrazi. Using the Annihilator triggers, you keep the board clean. Then, you can use a Karn Liberated to set up and start a new game that you can manage to win. If you run a second Eldrazi, you can also discard that Eldrazi during your cleanup step and swing until you "deck" your opponent out.

    Killing Tarmogoyf with Pyroclasm+Relic of Progenitus
    While this may seem fairly simple at first glance, most people don't know to have the Pyroclasm resolve BEFORE they crack the Relic. By doing this, you make Tarmogoyf a 0/1 with 2 damage already marked on it, and is put in the graveyard before anyone can respond. Do this the other, "first glance" way, and you give your opponent the chance to grow their Goyf with the Pyroclasm on the stack (by say, Lighting Bolting you). Remember, the Goyf "sees" the Pyroclasm as well as any spells your opponent casts in response to it, so it's trivial for them to get their Goyf out of Clasm range.

    How to "beat" Sowing Salt
    There are a few ways to handle Sowing Salt. None of them are perfect - to get this straight, Sowing Salt is the PERFECT board card against us. It's like Cranial Extraction that can hit nonbasic lands combined with a Caustic Rain. To beat it, there are three routes you can take. One is preventative, which involves you tutoring up a Ghost Quarter and keeping it up to blow up a targeted Tron piece. The second is reactive, and involves splashing Negate and/or Faith's Shield out of the board (in which case you run the G/U or G/W painland MD). The final, and my favorite, is to simply race the Salt. You can't truly know if your opponent has it. However, if you land an early Wurmcoil or Karn, you can often just take over the game before it lands, and start to drop O-Stones, Pyroclasms, Karns, and more Wurmcoils afterward.

    Nature's Claim vs. RDW
    Nature's Claim is a great board card vs. RDW. Not only to blow up their Blood Moons, but also to blow up your own artifacts. Being able to exchange two cards for 4 life doesn't sound pretty, but sometimes it's what you have to do to stay alive. If you Claim a Chromatic Star (but not Sphere), you still draw the card, and if you Claim a Wurmcoil in response to Smash to Smithereens, you manage to gain yourself 7 life. If you need to board in cards vs. RDW, but you don't want to devote more space in your SB, consider this strategy.

    Match-Up Analysis and Sideboarding Guide
    A work in progress.
    Jund(k) 65%/35%
    Tron was designed in many ways to be a counter for Jund(k), and still is. When playing Jund(k), one of the few cards you're really worried about is an early Thoughtseize taking you off a key Scrying/Map. All of the cards in the MD are varying levels of good. Both Pyroclasm and Relic of Progenitus will hose early Deathrite Shamans (Pyroclasm also dealing with Bob, and Clasm+Relic dealing with Goyf), and Oblivion Stones are great as usual. A resolved Karn OR Wurmcoil will take the game (except if Wurmcoil gets Pathed vs. Junk, which you should be wary of). Board is +Relic of Progenitus and potentially +Nature's Claim/+Spellskite, if really worried about Path to Exile from Junk. Post-board, be wary of Sowing Salt from Jund - if you feel it's coming, see the Strategies section for how to deal with it.

    Melira Pod 65%/35%
    Melira Pod is one of G(r) Tron's best matchups, and one of the reasons you'd really want to play the deck. 4 MD Pyroclasm, 4 MD Relic of Progenitus, and 4 MD Oblivion Stone really go a long way to shutting them down (and Karn, as usual, is also good). If they go infinite with Kitchen Finks, you can still win - though going infinite with Murderous Redcap is much harder for you. Murderous Redcap combo and resilient Voice of Resurgence beats are the only two things you have to really worry about for this matchup. Boarding is +Torpor Orb -Wurmcoil Engine/Relic of Progenitus. You know the MU's good when every card in the MD is a haymaker vs. them. Torpor Orb will shift things even further in your favor, though.

    Zoo/Other Aggro 60%/40% (generally)
    Tron generally has a positive MU vs. most aggro decks thanks to its large amount of sweepers and Wurmcoil Engines. If you can last until Turn 4 or so, you should be set for the match. 3-toughness Zoo can be very annoying because a lot of their stuff will dodge a single Clasm. Even so, an Oblivion Stone will still wipe the board clean, and a Wurmcoil Engine will take over the game (barring Path to Exile), making the MU still favorable. If really worried about 3-toughness Zoo coming in, try Firespout over Pyroclasm. White-based aggro is a lot harder than non-white, because they can deal with Wurmcoil and can have powerful hate cards out of the board. Board is +Spellskite -Relic of Progenitus.

    G(r) Tron 50%/50% (Hey, what can you expect?)
    The G(r) Tron Mirror is an interesting one. The key to this matchup is to assemble your Tron while keeping your opponent off theirs. Because of this, Karn Liberated is the key to this matchup, as it allows whoever controls one to consistently keep the other player off Tron (if you manage to +4 and untap with it, you win on the spot). Be very cognizant of Ghost Quarter from both sides of the table - while you want to work on assembling your Tron, it is sometimes the correct play to make sure your opponent doesn't assemble theirs first. Wurmcoil Engine is not great in this matchup, as life totals are generally irrelevant. Playing Ulamog will give you a big advantage here, as it both provides a threat and a way to keep your opponents' off Tron. Pyroclasm is absolutely useless, and Oblivion Stone is rather difficult to kill Karn with (given the nature of Karn's -3 ability)
    As for sideboarding, Slaughter Games is surprisingly powerful in this matchup. While you can't name nonbasic lands, you can name planeswalkers, and Karn is the only card other than Emrakul and perhaps Ulamog that truly impacts the flow of the game (and of the three, it's the one that is the quickest to be cast, and the most devastating). Beast Within is powerful as it can stop a resolved Karn, or good if you have nothing better to put in, as it can eat a Karn activation. Once your opponents' Tron or Karns are neutered, the MU becomes much easier (for the player who still has their Tron/Karns).
    -Pyroclasm -Relic of Progenitus -Oblivion Stone -Wurmcoil Engine +Slaughter Games (naming Karn) +Beast Within +Spellskite (for Karn) +Surgical Extraction (to Ghost Quarter/rip a Tron piece).

    Scapeshift 40%/60% (Poor) - w/o Clasms/O-Stones (Slaver Version) 48%/52% (Even-ish)
    The Scapeshift matchup all comes down to who can resolve their wincon first. And since Scapeshift has T2 counter-magic, and is slightly faster, generally they're slightly better. Getting your Wurmcoil repetitively Remanded only to get Scapeshifted is something that is frustratingly common. However, what makes this matchup truly poor is that Clasms are absolutely dead against them, and O-Stones are dead except on the off-chance they're playing Primeval Titan. Drawing into 2 of these cards will often result in your death because of the virtual CA your opponent gets. Other than that, the gameplan is to rush out an early Karn/Wurmcoil (like always), though they have a lot of interaction. In the long run, look to Emrakul. If you have Mindslavers, it's an absolute beating. Scapeshift makes them lose all their lands, if it doesn't outright kill them with it.
    Post-board gets a lot better due to the haymaker that is Slaughter Games. If you're running Surgical Extraction instead, Extraction + Ghost Quarter can catch them with their pants down when they try to Scapeshift. Post-board revolves around Games/Extraction, or if you don't draw into them, the original plan. It's a really tough matchup, and not one you can expect to win on a daily basis. Spellskite prevents them from combing off 7 lands, even if they have the Bolt to kill you. -Pyroclasm -Oblivion Stone -Relic of Progenitus (if your board goes deep enough) + Surgical Extraction +Slaughter Games +Beast Within +Spellskite +Mindslaver
    If you're running the Slaver version, it gets a lot easier, and your only real boarding is -Wurmcoil Engine +Slaughter Games +Surgical Extraction. Wurmcoil's not the best card in this MU, but it's necessary in the non-Slaver version to facilitate enough Tron-based threats.

    Storm 37.5%/62.5% (Poor) - w/o Clasms/Stones (Slaver Version) 45%/55% (Poor-ish)
    Storm as a matchup faces many of the problems that exist in Scapeshift as a matchup. Except Storm is a much faster deck, albeit more vulnerable to disruption (which G(r) Tron unfortunately does not have). This makes G1 very poor. The hope is to land an early Karn and keep them off mana/cards. Wurmcoil's relatively poor in that it's "just" a 3-4 turn clock; when Storm goes off, it's often very capable of dealing the necessary 26/32 damage off of Wurmcoil swings. Like the Scapeshift MU, we play 8 mostly dead sweepers. Pyroclasm gets someone better as it stops Goblin Electromancer, but even then it's a sorcery-speed double-costed Lightning Bolt, when your opponent can often combo off same-turn Electromancer. Additionally, it does nothing about Pyromancer Ascension. Post-board gets a lot better due to the godsend that is Slaughter Games, as well as removing the dead weight. -Pyroclasm -Oblivion Stone -Wurmcoil Engine (if you still have slots to board in) +Slaughter Games +Surgical Extraction +Beast Within +Nature's Claim (interaction) +Mindslaver
    Also like the Scapeshift MU, the Slaver version has a lot better game against this specific deck. With a single Slaver, you can either kill them or deplete all their resources. Also like the Scapeshift MU, the board is -Wurmcoil Engine +Slaughter Games +Surgical Extraction

    Infect 40%/60% (Poor)
    Let's get this out of the way; Infect is a TERRIBLE Game 1 for this deck. The reason for this is that we run no MD instant-speed removal. By the time Oblivion Stone would hit the battlefield, Infect should have won. To try and win this MU, you should firstly Pyroclasm away your threats. Don't worry about getting maximum value off your sweepers; a single Infect attacker breaking through can easily spell game for us. Secondly, you should try and land a Karn Liberated. Karn will deal with additional infect creatures, and stall out the game until you can land Emrakul to win the game. Wurmcoil is useless here, except an extremely overcosted blocker. The lifegain is absolutely irrelevant in this MU, and it costs far too much just to block. However, most of this is far too slow. Except G1 to be terrible.
    Post-sideboard, this matchup becomes a lot better. First of all, you bring in all your Spellskites. Infect will flat-out scoop to a Spellskite if they cannot remove it (and Infect can't run too much MD removal for its combo). Additionally, you can fetch them off Ancient Stirrings, though you ideally want to see one in your opening hand. Spellskite is your main hate, but there are other options you can run. Dismember can catch them with their pants down if they try to go all-in on a blocker. Sudden Shock will take out both an Infect creature and at least one pump spell. Even Nature's Claim can come in to take out animated Inkmoth Nexus and other artifact-based Infect creatures. -Wurmcoil Engine -Relic of Progenitus +Spellskite +Dismember +Sudden Shock +Nature's Claim(?)

    Link to Old OP: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=524699
    Last edited by Slivortal: 9/25/2013 10:25:11 PM
    Quote from Vermy
    You are only going to hurt your brain trying to get these answers. You would be better off forgetting that Return to Ravnica even has a "story" or what apparently passes as a story these days.


    Modern KarnTron


    Thanks to V.M.Santore for the great avvy!
  • #2
    Reserved for future use.
    Last edited by Lantern: 7/20/2013 6:23:21 AM
    Quote from Vermy
    You are only going to hurt your brain trying to get these answers. You would be better off forgetting that Return to Ravnica even has a "story" or what apparently passes as a story these days.


    Modern KarnTron


    Thanks to V.M.Santore for the great avvy!
  • #3
    Reserved for John Doe Updates
    Last edited by Lantern: 7/20/2013 6:24:16 AM
    Back from hiatus... I mean it this time! :p

    Former TCG Writer
    Former Magicportugal.net Writer
  • #4
    Quote from Soffish
    I have a suggestion for draft picks: Tooth and Nail

    The card can help you win games alot faster. In my R/G tron, i run the Flame-kin Zealot + Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
    as the main combo

    and

    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion as a backup plan. Best part about Tooth is that its unexpected in Tron and 99% of the time if they don't have any imediate response, you win.


    thanks for the imput, I like the idea of Tooth and Nail combo, although the Mikaeus seems cool, his mana is just too much for this deck. I will definitely add the tooth and nail. Thanks!
    Just Started EDH Again.
  • #5
    Quote from twinner
    thanks for the imput, I like the idea of Tooth and Nail combo, although the Mikaeus seems cool, his mana is just too much for this deck. I will definitely add the tooth and nail. Thanks!


    Heres my decklist:
    Soffish's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    4 Urza's Tower
    6 Forest
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Triskelion
    1 Flame-Kin Zealot

    Spells:
    4 Ancient Stirrings
    4 Tooth and Nail
    3 Expedition Map
    4 Explore
    4 Sylvan Scrying

    Artifacts:
    2 Oblivion Stone
    4 Chromatic Star

    Walkers:
    4 Karn Liberated




    I dont have a side built yet, apart from the 4 Pyroclasms that will be in there. The main combo with tooth is to pump out Flame-kin and Emrakul and win on the spot.
  • #6
    I run four rule of law sideboard with one temple garden main. Storm and Eggs are still a very real threat even with four relic of progenitus main. A lot of MTGO lists are doing the same.
    Level 1 Judge.

    Currently playing
    Competitive.
    Modern:UWRSplinter TwinUWR


    EDH:
    URMelek, Izzet ParagonUR
    BWGGhave, Guuru of sporesBWG

    Good thing I have book burning.
  • #7
    So what decks are we good/bad against? I would start out by saying Melaria-pod. I have also heard that w/u tron is a good machup but I have not played it.
  • #8
    Well from my perspective the good MUs include Pod (Kiki and Melira), Affinity seems okay (since Nexen + Plating can't be handled well), Jund is a good MU and Fringe decks are generally pretty good MUs too.

    Worst MUs are easily all kind of Combo besides Pod (so Twin, Scapeshift _maybe_ but Eggs and Storm are definitely bad. Living End seems bad too unless you get your Relic and Hivemind too).
    GerMagic on MTGO.
    ~ Currently Playing ~
    Modern : Jund, GB Midrange, BW Tokens, UR Twin, UWR Control and some fringe decks

    Watch me stream on www.twitch.tv/germagic

    Formerly known as Key-Fan.
  • #9
    I will be working on that when I get to it. But we own W/U Tron (8:2 Win:Loss),k we can handle Jund, affinity, rdw, more less its the deck we don't do good against. We suck against infect until we sb, and combo decks give us trouble. I will need you guys help with the sidebaord section. Please let me know what your sideboard is what you side in and out vs different decks. Thanks
    Just Started EDH Again.
  • #10
    I've been testing out Slaughter Games against various combo decks and this is how I ended up boarding (board plans are mostly optimal but may not be all the way there in terms of what to board out--if you have better suggestions for the boarded-out flex slots, please tell me!):

    Sideboard


    Note that I play 2 Wurmcoil Engine and 1 Ulamog, so I have room to pull a Wurmcoil against combo. I also play 2 Prophetic Prism to support Slaughter Games. I'll also give tips on what not to board out, as some of the stuff I board out seem to be flex slots and can be exchanged with other cards.

    Vs. Exarch Twin:
    +4 Slaughter Games (I generally name Splinter Twin, then Kiki-Jiki)
    +2 Combust
    +1 Nature's Claim (hits Splinter Twin)
    +1 Seal of Primordium (see above)
    -4 Pyroclasm (we'll handle Grim Lavamancer and Vendilion Clique later)
    -1 Wurmcoil Engine (stop them now, win later--don't pull the last one or Eye of Ugin will be sad)
    -3 Relic of Progenitus (they don't use the graveyard)
    {-0 Oblivion Stone (intimidates their "Exarchs" into needing to tap it pre-combo (then you blow up the "Exarch" in response), may make them board in bounce or Ancient Grudge, blows up Blood Moon if they board it in)}

    Vs. UR Storm:
    +4 Slaughter Games (name Grapeshot, then Ignite Memories if some punk plays it and you found it in the deck, then Empty the Warrens, then Goblin Electromancer if they haven't already scooped)
    +1 Nature's Claim (hits Pyromancer Ascension)
    +1 Seal of Primordium (see above)
    -2 Pyroclasm (don't board them all out or Empty the Warrens will get you)
    -1 Wurmcoil Engine (stall now, win later)
    -1 Ancient Stirrings (help me! I don't know exactly what to board out at this point--should I board out a Karn instead? Hitting lands or exposed Ascensions/Electromancers is the best strategy for him)
    -2 Sylvan Scrying (help me! It's slower than Expedition Map, at least)
    {-0 Relic of Progenitus (...and this is why boarding against UR Storm is a bitch)}
    {-0 Prophetic Prism (see above--I don't want Slaughter Games stranded in hand)}

    Vs. Scapeshift:
    +4 Slaughter Games (name Scapeshift, then Rude Awakening if you saw it, then Prismatic Omen if you saw any, then fatties if you saw any)
    -4 Pyroclasm (Slaughter Games turns Scapeshift into a bad aggro deck, so you should be able to handle the rest of their dudes)

    Vs. Hive Mind:
    +4 Slaughter Games (name Hive Mind, then Pact of the Titan, then Blood Moon if you saw any, then Simian Spirit Guide)
    +1 Nature's Claim (always assume they board in Blood Moon)
    +1 Seal of Primordium (see above)
    -4 Pyroclasm (again, Slaughter Games turns Hive Mind into a bad aggro deck, and RG Artifact Tron creams bad aggro decks)
    -1 Wurmcoil Engine (stall now, win later)
    -1 Relic of Progenitus (they don't use the graveyard)
    {-0 Oblivion Stone (still hits Pentad Prism, Blood Moon, Leyline of Sanctity, and their Plan B)}

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yes, I've found that the Slaughter Games plan works well enough to turn match-ups into not auto-losses. Hive Mind and Scapeshift basically crumble after one Slaughter Games, but Exarch Twin and UR Storm will fight back. You need to Slaughter Games them twice or Exarch Twin can still find Kiki-Jiki and UR Storm will pump out Empty the Warrens. Twice. Through a Pyroclasm killing the first wave. Even then, I've still lost to Exarch Twin once after Slaughter Games'ing it twice because V. Clique and Pestermite got there. (At least I've Slaughter Games'ed UR Storm twice in two games so far and I've won post-Slaughter Games against Exarch Twin three times (once with only 1 Games, twice with 2 Games)!)
    Last edited by Lectrys: 12/17/2012 1:27:50 AM
  • #11
    I think because of the diversity between sideboards, I am going to put all the different sideboard options, and what decks they are good to side in against. Compared to putting the deck and what you would side in. What do you guys think?
    Just Started EDH Again.
  • #12
    One missing thing I see is the lack of a match-ups section. While it may be obvious to someone who plays the deck, to someone fresh, they may not know what to expect and such...

    @Lectrys: what does your MD look like?
    Last edited by Macius: 12/17/2012 6:41:02 AM
    DNC.
    Quote from Helix
    Quote from Koopa

    Praise Helix.

    Thanks koopa.

    540 Peasant cube- Gold Edition
  • #13
    Explain me please how does
    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion combo works?

    This is not how bans/unbans work. Its always the enabler that gets the ban, not the card that is being abused. If you would have Yawgmoths will + whatever cards - it would be Yawgs that would be banned. If you would have Stoneforge and batterskull - it would be stone who would be banned and that is exactly how it works. Furthermore, banning a card in order to unban a different card is a thought process that was and wont be never applied in practical means.
  • #14
    Quote from paagrio
    Explain me please how does
    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion combo works?


    Ok, so essentially you shoot the opponent for 1 and shoot triskellion for 2 with itself. It dies with no +1/+1 counters and thus undying (due to mikaeus).

    You now shoot your opponent for 2 and triskellion for 2. It dies and since no +1/+1 counters, undies again.

    Repeat until your opponent loses.
    DNC.
    Quote from Helix
    Quote from Koopa

    Praise Helix.

    Thanks koopa.

    540 Peasant cube- Gold Edition
  • #15
    If you mention Tooth and Nail you can as well add the Through the Breach Sideboardplan some lists have played (Boarding in 3 more Emrakuls and Through the Breaches).

    Keep up the good work Smile
    GerMagic on MTGO.
    ~ Currently Playing ~
    Modern : Jund, GB Midrange, BW Tokens, UR Twin, UWR Control and some fringe decks

    Watch me stream on www.twitch.tv/germagic

    Formerly known as Key-Fan.
  • #16
    Quote from Soffish
    Heres my decklist:
    Blastoderm's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    4 Urza's Tower
    6 Forest
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Triskelion
    1 Flame-Kin Zealot

    Spells:
    4 Ancient Stirrings
    4 Tooth and Nail
    3 Expedition Map
    4 Explore
    4 Sylvan Scrying

    Artifacts:
    2 Oblivion Stone
    4 Chromatic Star

    Walkers:
    4 Karn Liberated




    I dont have a side built yet, apart from the 4 Pyroclasms that will be in there. The main combo with tooth is to pump out Flame-kin and Emrakul and win on the spot.


    I think it would be better to move the triskellion combo to the sideboard and try to have some pyroclasms maindeck. At least 3.
    Legacy Decks:

    Elves
    Loam Depths
    Goblin Stompy
    Kobold Aggro
    GB Nic Fit
    Pod Nic Fit
    12 Post
    Pattern Combo
    Squirrel Stompy
    Modern Decks:

    Amulet of Vigor Combo
    Restore Balance
    Cascade Swans
    Mono U Tron
    Through the Breach
    Elves
    Mono Red Control
    Tooth and Nail Tron
    Leviathans
    EDH Decks:

    Krenko Combo
    Jaya LD
    Zirilan Dragons
    Omnath
  • #17
    Quote from Macius
    One missing thing I see is the lack of a match-ups section. While it may be obvious to someone who plays the deck, to someone fresh, they may not know what to expect and such...

    @Lectrys: what does your MD look like?


    Here it is. It's pretty boring for a Slaughter Games Rock Tron list:
    Lectrys's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Tendo Ice Bridge
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    4 Urza's Tower
    1 Forest

    Creatures
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    2 Wurmcoil Engine

    Spells
    4 Expedition Map
    4 Sylvan Scrying
    4 Ancient Stirrings
    4 Chromatic Sphere
    4 Chromatic Star
    2 Prophetic Prism
    4 Relic of Progenitus
    4 Karn Liberated
    2 Oblivion Stone
    4 Pyroclasm



    ...Okay, the lands probably require some explanation. In testing, I've gotten a lot of land search late-game after already assembling the Tron with the Eye of Ugin, so turning a land search card into a cantrip (albeit an expensive one) with Horizon Canopy has been decent. It's also helped me dig when drawn naturally, and it's decent early-game as a semi-Karplusan Forest.

    My current land to search for when I need to cast Slaughter Games and no Chromatic Eggs or Prophetic Prisms arrive is Tendo Ice Bridge, as it produces any colour of mana without paying any life or being tapped when it ETB, and I generally don't need its coloured mana more than once a game. I've sometimes wished it were Llanowar Wastes, though, when I need to cast Slaughter Games twice (I never anticipate needing the coloured mana more than twice and I anticipate needing its mana quite a bit early-game, so I don't want to play Overgrown Tomb).

    Ulamog is testing fine--he eats Path to Exile fairly often and sometimes gets countered, but against a lot of decks, he's a significantly cheaper Emrakul with 2/3s of the Annihilator (feels like 1/2 the Annihilator, though), no evasion, and no extra turn (but with a free, uncounterable Vindicate attached). Then again, most combo decks don't give a hoot about the "no evasion" part--they're just scared about the "Sacrifice all lands you control every turn for the rest of the game" part (but thankful that they get one more turn to combo off).

    My 61st card would be a second Forest to dodge Blood Moon harder.

    I still tend to keep 1-land hands (I find the no-Tron hands are the bigger traps than the one-Tron hands), and whenever I've been mana-screwed, I've always been worse off than when I've been mana-flooded, so I like 20 lands.
  • #18
    Hey guys I will be finishing the match up and sidebaords tomorrow. Then we will have an up a running primer, let me know if you feel something should be added. Thanks!
    Just Started EDH Again.
  • #19
    II'm really wondering how you can board against Storm without Slaughter Games... it hasn't even have to be effective, but you kind of need to board out Clasm and Stone, so thats 6-7 Slots and the only thing I can come up with is either going for a lone Temple Garden with Rule of Law and the NAture's Claim or Slaughter Games.


    Edit: Well, I guess you can always add 1 or 2 Grafdiggers... then again they seem likely to board out Ascension anyway so maybe keep Clasms in?
    GerMagic on MTGO.
    ~ Currently Playing ~
    Modern : Jund, GB Midrange, BW Tokens, UR Twin, UWR Control and some fringe decks

    Watch me stream on www.twitch.tv/germagic

    Formerly known as Key-Fan.
  • #20
    Definitely spellskite, they don't get killed by 1 lightning bolt, and can ruin a storm players plan.

    EDIT NEED HELP: Guys I need your help to finish the sideboarding and match up section. I haven't played allot of the decks that are run in Modern due to local meta. if you want to help please pick a deck and follow the same format I have already used. Please only include cards from the sideboard que already set up. (We can add more later but for now lets keep it the same)
    Last edited by Twinner: 12/18/2012 1:01:47 PM
    Just Started EDH Again.
  • #21
    Quote from twinner
    Definitely spellskite, they don't get killed by 1 lightning bolt, and can ruin a storm players plan.

    EDIT NEED HELP: Guys I need your help to finish the sideboarding and match up section. I haven't played allot of the decks that are run in Modern due to local meta. if you want to help please pick a deck and follow the same format I have already used. Please only include cards from the sideboard que already set up. (We can add more later but for now lets keep it the same)


    I can give you Storm, I have tested from both sides quite well

    In Sideboard section you may want to add Trinisphere, it makes Infect and Storm extremely easy after board and hampers Control as well

    My own list:
    Fizzeler's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    4 Urza's Tower
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter

    Dig/Tutors:
    4 Sylvan Scrying
    4 Ancient Stirrings
    4 Expedition Map

    Filter/Cantrips
    4 Chromatic Sphere
    4 Chromatic Star
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Explore
    1 Prismatic Lens
    1 Prophetic Prism

    Threats
    1 Myr Battlesphere
    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Karn Liberated
    1 Sundering Titan

    Removal/Sweep Effects
    4 Pyroclasm
    1 All Is Dust

    Other
    1 Staff of Nin


    The Staff will likely become O-Stone or another Sundering Titan

    VS Storm

    Even, + Grafdigger's Cage, + Electrickery, + Thorn Of Amethyst/Trinisphere. Game 1 comes down closer to a die roll and depends greatly on their build if they are running Epic Experiment then it is unfavorable, if you can drop an active early Relic Of Progenitus you can cause them to fizzle or earn yourself a few turns to drop a Karn and start eating their hand. After board Thorn Of Amethyst/Trinisphere make the match-up much easier while Grafdigger's Cage will prevent Past In Flames, keep in at least one-two sweepers in case they board in Bushwacker + Empty The Warrens or board into Splinter Twin
    Modern:
    Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
    MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect

    Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget Smile
    I stream!

    Hermit Druid Combo:
    Quote from rowtheboat
    Uuuuh... Cast Hermit Druid... Untap... Win game?
    Sounds like a one card combo to me, unless you are counting lands as part of your combo
    Quote from Fizzeler
    Hermit does need to enter the battlefield somehow so you can win the game :p

    Quote from Raggedjoe
    This may be the first time "Tropical Island" has been a part of any combo. Just saying.
  • #22
    Quote from Fizzeler
    I can give you Storm, I have tested from both sides quite well

    In Sideboard section you may want to add Trinisphere, it makes Infect and Storm extremely easy after board and hampers Control as well

    My own list:
    Twinner's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    4 Urza's Tower
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter

    Dig/Tutors:
    4 Sylvan Scrying
    4 Ancient Stirrings
    4 Expedition Map

    Filter/Cantrips
    4 Chromatic Sphere
    4 Chromatic Star
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Explore
    1 Prismatic Lens
    1 Prophetic Prism

    Threats
    1 Myr Battlesphere
    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Karn Liberated
    1 Sundering Titan

    Removal/Sweep Effects
    4 Pyroclasm
    1 All Is Dust

    Other
    1 Staff of Nin


    The Staff will likely become O-Stone or another Sundering Titan

    VS Storm

    Even, + Grafdigger's Cage, + Electrickery, + Thorn Of Amethyst/Trinisphere. Game 1 comes down closer to a die roll and depends greatly on their build if they are running Epic Experiment then it is unfavorable, if you can drop an active early Relic Of Progenitus you can cause them to fizzle or earn yourself a few turns to drop a Karn and start eating their hand. After board Thorn Of Amethyst/Trinisphere make the match-up much easier while Grafdigger's Cage will prevent Past In Flames, keep in at least one-two sweepers in case they board in Bushwacker + Empty The Warrens or board into Splinter Twin


    thanks! Added it.
    Just Started EDH Again.
  • #23
    How does one actually use Karn Liberated in a deck. I was excited because he was my first planes-walker, (and apparently a good one) and then an't a clue how to have enough to protect him whilst needing him.
  • #24
    RDW/Burn I need to test more against, but I am pretty sure the board is Leyline Of Santity (if you have it), Trinisphere/Thorn Of Amethyst, Krosan Grip (for Blood Moon), and Rule Of Law (if you have it)
    Game 1 I know is a race if you can turn 3 Wurmcoil at around 10 life you can easily outrace their burn, Karn can work if they are stuck on 1-2 lands, Goblin Guide can help accelerate your plan by finding Tron Pieces. Post board your hate should slow them down enough to land Wurmcoil and bring your life total high enough so it doesn't matter

    Overall it is very favorable after board, they don't have Sowing Salt as it is to mana intensive for the deck and K. Grip can easily handle Blood Moon

    Martyr Proc and B/W Tokens I'll proxy up and test with and against to see what to do
    Modern:
    Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
    MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect

    Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget Smile
    I stream!

    Hermit Druid Combo:
    Quote from rowtheboat
    Uuuuh... Cast Hermit Druid... Untap... Win game?
    Sounds like a one card combo to me, unless you are counting lands as part of your combo
    Quote from Fizzeler
    Hermit does need to enter the battlefield somehow so you can win the game :p

    Quote from Raggedjoe
    This may be the first time "Tropical Island" has been a part of any combo. Just saying.
  • #25
    Quote from Lord
    How does one actually use Karn Liberated in a deck. I was excited because he was my first planes-walker, (and apparently a good one) and then an't a clue how to have enough to protect him whilst needing him.


    In this deck your not to worried about protecting him, usually you use him for what ever you need. That being either for targeted destruction or discard.
    Just Started EDH Again.
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