I've played this deck casually for a few months now, but did my first store event last night. Went beautifully well, taking first with 3-0-1.
First match was a Jeskai mostly-standard brew that I just demolished. Not a real fight.
Second was Twin, which I also took down easily since finally giving into the Crackling Doom argument that I thought was silly at first. That card is perfect for this deck. I'm now mainboarding 2 and siding a third. Game 2 proved a little more difficult as he went up to 4 Batterskulls, and I had to get lucky being prepared with Wear for Blood Moon, but still went smoothly. Snapcaster is an unfair card.
Third match I drew against a Martyr-Proc deck. Game 1 he destroyed me by getting to 38 life on turn 2 and then casting three Ascendants in rapid succession, as well as some Ajani's Pridemates that got big fast. Too many creature out of bolt range, only so many Paths and Crackling Dooms to go around. G2 I brought in a pair of Anger of the Gods and though I'd blown him out until he responded with three consecutive Spectral Processions. Grinded that one out casting Cryptic no less than 3 times to tap his board down, survived with <5 life. G3 we drew on time with me at 2 and him at 16, but I had the board locked down with Resto, Snap, and Colonnade with a Helix in hand vs. his Squadron Hawk, Soul Warden, and Serra Ascendant, all 2/2 thanks to Honor of the Pure. Time got called as I ended my turn, which was unfortunate as I could have killed him on turn 5 if it was mine, but as it was I had to sit on defense with Cryptic in case of emergencies. I REALLY would have benefited from Electrickery in this match, and I wonder why I'm boarding Anger instead. It hit nothing relevant all night. Maybe a swap is in order?
Finals I was up against Tron, which I'd never played against before. I think I got a little lucky in game 1 with a heavy burn draw, and I think I had him dead by turn 6 or 7 with just boltsnapbolt. He played a single pyroclasm, but saw no other creatures. I THINK he then sided them out, which might have saved my bacon. G2 I kept a two-lander and never saw a third. G3 was a great fight, with my two Cliques coming to the rescue (and re-use via Resto) over and over. They are incredible in this match up. Eventually I ground him down to 6 with bolt-snap-bolt up, and had to wait for him to activate his trading post to kill him on the stack.
I'd love comments on this build, if possible, as based on this experience alone, I'd like to be able to board up to 4 cliques (2 in main), and 3-4 Electrickery. The singleton cruise is there for matches where I need to be burn heavy, but a second would probably be nice too. I'm also only running two Wear/Tear's because I'm decent vs. affinity with regular removal, and decent vs. auras and twin with counters and crackling doom, but a third would be nice vs. blood moon. Do I need 4 Firewalkers? I haven't had the experience, but I feel like I'm okay vs. burn as it is.
A few things, at 24 lands, two cryptics might be a bit much, I have been very happy with my one of. Why not 4 colonnades? They are great late game. Have you tried Slaughter Games in the board with the black splash? I love it. Even at its worst it lets you see every card in their deck and hand, at its best it removes their only win con. As for anger of electrickery, I find that Engineered Explosives fills the same roll and is just generally more flexible and a better tempo swing. Here is the 75 I have been playing really love. The only cards that are flex for me right now are the relics in the board, I just havnt had the ocassion to both board them in and draw them enough yet.
It does mean that I've had to make my mana base a little extra blue, which has once or twice left me with only one white when I could have really used another. But I've also never been stuck with Cryptic in hand, and it just wins games. The heavy blue requirement also helps with Cliques, which I have in my build.
I'm only running two Colonnades because they're only good to drop as land #1 or 5+ - anywhere in between and the ETB tapped without option is too painful. It's great late, but falling behind on curve early means having to use removal in suboptimal ways, or failing to drop Geist at a good opportunity. I've found my late game to be pretty strong without them, and I'd never want to activate more than one anyways, even in super long games, as I almost always want to leave up counter mana.
As for the explosives, is 1 really enough? I'm looking for sweepers to combat the wide aggro strategies. They very consistently do what they do - should the best answer not be just as consistent? Meanwhile Electrickery hits tokens, Pyro, Snaps, Delvers, missing only Swiftspears, whereas the EE has to compromise more, no? Though the flexibility is certainly nice. Nevertheless, my main question is why just 1?
Haven't tried Slaughter Games, and have stayed away from anything over 3CMC at sorcery speed just because I've found the deck to be very effective in a reactive position. Maybe a good option vs a mirror match, or something like faeries. Though I'd be tempted to bring in a second black source for that, and my mana base is complicated enough as it is. PS - thoughts on Cascade Bluffs? Occasionally it's awesome, but sometimes I hate it.
Everybody is on black splash it seems, I can't wait to try it. If anyone here goes to Omaha keep us updated please!
In that list, is that necesary to play 2 Counterflux? We have Cryptic MD as a hard counter and against combo Slaughter Games are just better.
And another question, against RG Tron what do you name with Slaughter Games?
In the UWR no black splash version I find that Kor firewalker are no that great (it's the same in the black splash version), we do have a good pairing against UR Delver without them and against Burn Kor are bad if drawn late. Im trying 2 Timely Reincforcements and it is just the nuts (also there is a lot of Zoo and GW Aggro and they definately help).
I really like the two counterflux, they usually come in for remand against combo and control. In RG Tron I always name Karn, as its the card that is hardest to beat for us. Typically i will name Emarakul second, but it depends on what I see from the first one.
In the UWR no black splash version I find that Kor firewalker are no that great (it's the same in the black splash version), we do have a good pairing against UR Delver without them and against Burn Kor are bad if drawn late. Im trying 2 Timely Reincforcements and it is just the nuts (also there is a lot of Zoo and GW Aggro and they definately help).
Sounds cute. I was really excited to play Kor Firewalker until I found myself beating Delver pre-board, and being able to win the race vs. burn if I can get Geist down on T3 (a Helix really helps too).
- We have major differences in opinion regarding mana base. 10 fetches and 7 shocks seems very punishing, especially when you're running 4 Colonnades. Sets you up to either pay a ton of life to stay on curve, or fall behind. Sulfur Falls is an all-star when you're near-certain to hit its condition. I run 24 lands, only 10 of which total are fetches and shocks. Also, why are you running two black shocks? Just for the choice between U and W? I guess that makes some sense (I have definitely caught myself short on white before, as I chose a Watery Grave for the black splash to keep Cryptic feasible), and I hadn't considered it, though drawing the second while having the first in play seems miserable. I'm also only running two Colonnades, as I've found them to be valuable for the threat factor, but not actually necessary to lay beats.
- You're playing online, so our metas are very different, but I don't like more than one Electrolyze in the main, nor having only three helixes. I've found a very consistent win formula in bolting everything that can be bolted, and I'd be fairly confident that if I kept stats, I'd find that games where I didn't resolve a helix have my lowest win%. If you have a wide-heavy meta though, why is there no sweeper in the side?
- Three Digs is also an awful lot. I agree that the deck lacks card advantage, but have seldom felt in need. I run 1 Dig main, and 1 TC in the side, considering going up to 2. Digs are awesome to have in hand after turn 5 or 6 or so, but truthfully I've found an EOT-Dig to usually put the hard lock on a game I was already fairly sure to win. This deck lets you hold enough options in hand that I've seldom felt in need of more.
- I also don't get the Gifts/Elesh Norn/Iona sideboard options. I didn't listen to the whole video, and I'm sure you explain it there, but they don't seem to accomplish more than Dig/(Anger/Pyroclasm/Electrickery)/Counters suite at first glance.
Also, just as an aside as I see more and more people calling it UWRb, my play group is now just calling it "Greenless Geist" , though I've been trying to push "Yoowerb".
Hey Nate, two cryptics is good no need to debate or doubt it, slightly more control so good in certain matches and can be cut for more relevant cards in your first sideboard
Gifts is fun but also effective to splash, I can think of people splashing gifts for years on and off. it just has its place it reminds me of what I used to do with isochron scepter if your opponent didn't know it was coming, the sideboard alone would devestate decks. One thing is that your using a lot of spaces in your sideboard for this package, meta call for sure...
- We have major differences in opinion regarding mana base. 10 fetches and 7 shocks seems very punishing, especially when you're running 4 Colonnades. Sets you up to either pay a ton of life to stay on curve, or fall behind. Sulfur Falls is an all-star when you're near-certain to hit its condition. I run 24 lands, only 10 of which total are fetches and shocks. Also, why are you running two black shocks? Just for the choice between U and W? I guess that makes some sense (I have definitely caught myself short on white before, as I chose a Watery Grave for the black splash to keep Cryptic feasible), and I hadn't considered it, though drawing the second while having the first in play seems miserable. I'm also only running two Colonnades, as I've found them to be valuable for the threat factor, but not actually necessary to lay beats.
I was mainly just building off the mana-base that Jeff Hoogland created, I have't spent the time to try and optimize myself other than a minor change of Godless Shrine over Blood Crypt and then Water Grave over that. Watery Grave is obviously the best one. It's possible there is a less painful way to craft it, but my thinking was all of the festches were needed since the deck was now 4 colors. I think the main reason to run two shocks is if one is destroyed.
- You're playing online, so our metas are very different, but I don't like more than one Electrolyze in the main, nor having only three helixes. I've found a very consistent win formula in bolting everything that can be bolted, and I'd be fairly confident that if I kept stats, I'd find that games where I didn't resolve a helix have my lowest win%. If you have a wide-heavy meta though, why is there no sweeper in the side?
I think Electrolyze is awesome. It's good vs Delver/Pod/Affinity, all top decks. The sweeper was mainly for Pod/Junk/Token/Affinty. I plan to bring in Elesh in all of those matchups except for Junk, so I had cut it. But I would still like to have one, I wouldn't dare to say that the list I posted was perfectly tuned.
- Three Digs is also an awful lot. I agree that the deck lacks card advantage, but have seldom felt in need. I run 1 Dig main, and 1 TC in the side, considering going up to 2. Digs are awesome to have in hand after turn 5 or 6 or so, but truthfully I've found an EOT-Dig to usually put the hard lock on a game I was already fairly sure to win. This deck lets you hold enough options in hand that I've seldom felt in need of more.
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My reason for trying three is that I want to draw it every game. As I said in the video, when running three even by turn 7 the deck is only 52% likely to draw it. I think it's one of the most powerful spells in the deck and I want to cast it every game if I can.
- I also don't get the Gifts/Elesh Norn/Iona sideboard options. I didn't listen to the whole video, and I'm sure you explain it there, but they don't seem to accomplish more than Dig/(Anger/Pyroclasm/Electrickery)/Counters suite at first glance.
It's just an evolution from me trying to solve the Pod matchup. I don't think our Pod matchup is very good. Elesh basically shuts the deck down. There are likely many other applications as well.
Also, just as an aside as I see more and more people calling it UWRb, my play group is now just calling it "Greenless Geist" , though I've been trying to push "Yoowerb".
We don't have a good matchup against pod, not even post board. That's a big reason for the pros to stay away from uwr midrange... Pod is still the #1 deck, and geist simply is not enough...
In another subject, which cards could be banned/unbanned that would help our deck?
Even with sb, you cannot transform the Standard uwr midrange list in a good control version without sacrificing the other matchups. And even with a control version, pod matchup is still 50/50 or less, because they bring thoughtseize for our counterspells. I'm waiting for the new banlist, to see if we get some goodies...
We don't have a good matchup against pod, not even post board. That's a big reason for the pros to stay away from uwr midrange... Pod is still the #1 deck, and geist simply is not enough...
In another subject, which cards could be banned/unbanned that would help our deck?
Best regards
Has anyone tried boarding in Hushwing Gryff against Pod?
I wen't 4-1 at my local LGS only losing to UWR control (2-1), because I was screwed Game 2 and flooded game 3. The other matchups were R/W Aggro (2-0), DnT (2-1), RUG Twin (2-0) and Scapeshift (2-0).
I obviously chose the shackle plan over colonnade, a little blue moon adaptation, but UWR style. Thats why the Blood Moon is only in the sideboard. (Still good vs. most decks game 2&3)
If someone had some ideas to make the manabase a little bit better or general ideas , I'd be glad
I removed leyline from sb, and added 3 chalice. It doesnt do much against pod and GBx decks (i feel those are our worst matchups), but it helps against so many decks... Delver, burn, affinity, even tron (chalice for 1 stops 16-20 cards), amulet bloom to stop hive mind, etc...
First match was a Jeskai mostly-standard brew that I just demolished. Not a real fight.
Second was Twin, which I also took down easily since finally giving into the Crackling Doom argument that I thought was silly at first. That card is perfect for this deck. I'm now mainboarding 2 and siding a third. Game 2 proved a little more difficult as he went up to 4 Batterskulls, and I had to get lucky being prepared with Wear for Blood Moon, but still went smoothly. Snapcaster is an unfair card.
Third match I drew against a Martyr-Proc deck. Game 1 he destroyed me by getting to 38 life on turn 2 and then casting three Ascendants in rapid succession, as well as some Ajani's Pridemates that got big fast. Too many creature out of bolt range, only so many Paths and Crackling Dooms to go around. G2 I brought in a pair of Anger of the Gods and though I'd blown him out until he responded with three consecutive Spectral Processions. Grinded that one out casting Cryptic no less than 3 times to tap his board down, survived with <5 life. G3 we drew on time with me at 2 and him at 16, but I had the board locked down with Resto, Snap, and Colonnade with a Helix in hand vs. his Squadron Hawk, Soul Warden, and Serra Ascendant, all 2/2 thanks to Honor of the Pure. Time got called as I ended my turn, which was unfortunate as I could have killed him on turn 5 if it was mine, but as it was I had to sit on defense with Cryptic in case of emergencies. I REALLY would have benefited from Electrickery in this match, and I wonder why I'm boarding Anger instead. It hit nothing relevant all night. Maybe a swap is in order?
Finals I was up against Tron, which I'd never played against before. I think I got a little lucky in game 1 with a heavy burn draw, and I think I had him dead by turn 6 or 7 with just boltsnapbolt. He played a single pyroclasm, but saw no other creatures. I THINK he then sided them out, which might have saved my bacon. G2 I kept a two-lander and never saw a third. G3 was a great fight, with my two Cliques coming to the rescue (and re-use via Resto) over and over. They are incredible in this match up. Eventually I ground him down to 6 with bolt-snap-bolt up, and had to wait for him to activate his trading post to kill him on the stack.
I'd love comments on this build, if possible, as based on this experience alone, I'd like to be able to board up to 4 cliques (2 in main), and 3-4 Electrickery. The singleton cruise is there for matches where I need to be burn heavy, but a second would probably be nice too. I'm also only running two Wear/Tear's because I'm decent vs. affinity with regular removal, and decent vs. auras and twin with counters and crackling doom, but a third would be nice vs. blood moon. Do I need 4 Firewalkers? I haven't had the experience, but I feel like I'm okay vs. burn as it is.
Thx!
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/urw-or-uwr/
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Lightning Angel
2 Restoration Angel
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Crackling Doom
1 Cryptic Command
3 Remand
2 Dig Through Time
2 Electrolyze
1 Slaughter Games
2 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
1 Batterskull
2 Counterflux
1 Crackling Doom
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Slaughter Games
1 Stony Silence
2 Wear // Tear
I'm only running two Colonnades because they're only good to drop as land #1 or 5+ - anywhere in between and the ETB tapped without option is too painful. It's great late, but falling behind on curve early means having to use removal in suboptimal ways, or failing to drop Geist at a good opportunity. I've found my late game to be pretty strong without them, and I'd never want to activate more than one anyways, even in super long games, as I almost always want to leave up counter mana.
As for the explosives, is 1 really enough? I'm looking for sweepers to combat the wide aggro strategies. They very consistently do what they do - should the best answer not be just as consistent? Meanwhile Electrickery hits tokens, Pyro, Snaps, Delvers, missing only Swiftspears, whereas the EE has to compromise more, no? Though the flexibility is certainly nice. Nevertheless, my main question is why just 1?
Haven't tried Slaughter Games, and have stayed away from anything over 3CMC at sorcery speed just because I've found the deck to be very effective in a reactive position. Maybe a good option vs a mirror match, or something like faeries. Though I'd be tempted to bring in a second black source for that, and my mana base is complicated enough as it is. PS - thoughts on Cascade Bluffs? Occasionally it's awesome, but sometimes I hate it.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
I really like the two counterflux, they usually come in for remand against combo and control. In RG Tron I always name Karn, as its the card that is hardest to beat for us. Typically i will name Emarakul second, but it depends on what I see from the first one.
Karn, I would imagine. Path eats Wurmcoil all day, and even Emrakul is quickly dispatched with Crackling Doom.
Sounds cute. I was really excited to play Kor Firewalker until I found myself beating Delver pre-board, and being able to win the race vs. burn if I can get Geist down on T3 (a Helix really helps too).
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
I had excellent further success with this card today vs. Affinity (2 games to 1), and burn (2 games to 1).
Crackling Doom is unbelievably good in this deck. The only real threats are wide aggro decks, in my experience so far. Pod might be tough too.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
http://youtu.be/RLQJVPCIlhw
- We have major differences in opinion regarding mana base. 10 fetches and 7 shocks seems very punishing, especially when you're running 4 Colonnades. Sets you up to either pay a ton of life to stay on curve, or fall behind. Sulfur Falls is an all-star when you're near-certain to hit its condition. I run 24 lands, only 10 of which total are fetches and shocks. Also, why are you running two black shocks? Just for the choice between U and W? I guess that makes some sense (I have definitely caught myself short on white before, as I chose a Watery Grave for the black splash to keep Cryptic feasible), and I hadn't considered it, though drawing the second while having the first in play seems miserable. I'm also only running two Colonnades, as I've found them to be valuable for the threat factor, but not actually necessary to lay beats.
- You're playing online, so our metas are very different, but I don't like more than one Electrolyze in the main, nor having only three helixes. I've found a very consistent win formula in bolting everything that can be bolted, and I'd be fairly confident that if I kept stats, I'd find that games where I didn't resolve a helix have my lowest win%. If you have a wide-heavy meta though, why is there no sweeper in the side?
- Three Digs is also an awful lot. I agree that the deck lacks card advantage, but have seldom felt in need. I run 1 Dig main, and 1 TC in the side, considering going up to 2. Digs are awesome to have in hand after turn 5 or 6 or so, but truthfully I've found an EOT-Dig to usually put the hard lock on a game I was already fairly sure to win. This deck lets you hold enough options in hand that I've seldom felt in need of more.
- I also don't get the Gifts/Elesh Norn/Iona sideboard options. I didn't listen to the whole video, and I'm sure you explain it there, but they don't seem to accomplish more than Dig/(Anger/Pyroclasm/Electrickery)/Counters suite at first glance.
Also, just as an aside as I see more and more people calling it UWRb, my play group is now just calling it "Greenless Geist" , though I've been trying to push "Yoowerb".
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
Gifts is fun but also effective to splash, I can think of people splashing gifts for years on and off. it just has its place it reminds me of what I used to do with isochron scepter if your opponent didn't know it was coming, the sideboard alone would devestate decks. One thing is that your using a lot of spaces in your sideboard for this package, meta call for sure...
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
In another subject, which cards could be banned/unbanned that would help our deck?
Best regards
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesUR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesHas anyone tried boarding in Hushwing Gryff against Pod?
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
Ah yes. Does it make a huge difference, or is Pod still favoured to win after boarding it in?
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
I'm currently testing a fun list.
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Forked Bolt
4 Dig Through Time
4 Serum Visions
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Blood Moon
1 Wear//Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Anger of the gods
1 Batterskull
1 Keranos, god of storms
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterflux
I wen't 4-1 at my local LGS only losing to UWR control (2-1), because I was screwed Game 2 and flooded game 3. The other matchups were R/W Aggro (2-0), DnT (2-1), RUG Twin (2-0) and Scapeshift (2-0).
I obviously chose the shackle plan over colonnade, a little blue moon adaptation, but UWR style. Thats why the Blood Moon is only in the sideboard. (Still good vs. most decks game 2&3)
If someone had some ideas to make the manabase a little bit better or general ideas , I'd be glad
Best regards
Stefan
Edited: chalice doesn't stop hive mind problem
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesUR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesUR TwinLegacy
UWR Miracles