2 . UWR delver is not very common, I would not worry about it. Would you have won the game if it was vs U/R delver ? And did you get any chance to resolve Elesh ? I agree URW delver is harder for us because of the paths, but since is such an uncommon matchup ...
3 . I know and I also miss them manlands, but I can't find space to fit (I would get treetop or stirring wildwood) but I dont think we are Threat light . The mana base may not be perfect, Im always up for suggestions. I only have those few blue and black sources because with 9 fetches thats 9 extra sources (I think this is right in theory) and since you dont run liliana most of the time you only need 1 black and 1 blue. Liliana will be hard to beat, but remember you have 4 decays, explosives AND lingering souls. I think that liliana is no more threat than it already was. If we could get a pro to fix the manabase, I would appreciate it. It never was one of my strong suits .
2. I would have won if they had been bolts and not paths--I'm not overly worried about it really, you're right its not that common but I did find it irritating that none of the creatures break through the token stalls unless you stem the pyro token generation early (and I blew an abrupt on a flipped delver early). After this game I dropped the thragtusk for a siege rhino--I really like them, it tramples rather than leaves a body, and helixes someone. I also like that it costs 1 less for a 4/5 body in this meta.
3. I'd love a GB scars fast land to drop a dork or discard spell turn 1. I thought about using 3 razorverges but I have nothing to do with the white, so its useless unless you have noble in your opener AND its the correct play to not fetch. I will probably try 1 stirring wildwood, 1 creeping tarpit, and 1 treetop--I think they're all useful.
For the mana base in general, I use the following guide, if you use it too and then adjust a little bit to accommodate for knight activations we should be 95% on track. In the games with your list I never really had problems in practice, I just realized in a few games If I drew gifts I couldn't have cast it--luckily/unluckily, I never drew one in those games.
im2g00t4ubarn is a friend of mine and he went 4-0 2 days ago, he was at GP madrid with me and is a wayyy better player than I am plus hes the one that borrows me the deck online. He was trying it for fun
I by no mean want to take attention away from the current GB Rock gifts list that is doing very well, but I have been crushing face lately with a super traditional list with a few tweaks for the modern meta. I am currently 10-2-0 after 3 weeks of FNM Modern in a varied and skilled playing pool. Some of the noteworthy elements of the deck are:
No mana dorks main
4 Chalice Main
No discard effects main (anti-synergistic with Chalice for 1)
A few sources (finks and Timely) of lifegain/stall main
Other than those changes, a very traditional list with elesh/iona/crime/loam lock and varying counters/sweepers/spot removal/manlands to get the job done. It is running like clockwork within the current meta and hoses Burn, UR/UWR delver/pyro/swiftspear aggro. It still struggles against traditional foes such as GB Rock and Tron but has some sideboard cards to try to establish a 50/50 game 2&3. Will post list later on if there is any interest for it.
I by no mean want to take attention away from the current GB Rock gifts list that is doing very well, but I have been crushing face lately with a super traditional list with a few tweaks for the modern meta. I am currently 10-2-0 after 3 weeks of FNM Modern in a varied and skilled playing pool. Some of the noteworthy elements of the deck are:
No mana dorks main
4 Chalice Main
No discard effects main (anti-synergistic with Chalice for 1)
A few sources (finks and Timely) of lifegain/stall main
Other than those changes, a very traditional list with elesh/iona/crime/loam lock and varying counters/sweepers/spot removal/manlands to get the job done. It is running like clockwork within the current meta and hoses Burn, UR/UWR delver/pyro/swiftspear aggro. It still struggles against traditional foes such as GB Rock and Tron but has some sideboard cards to try to establish a 50/50 game 2&3. Will post list later on if there is any interest for it.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I by no mean want to take attention away from the current GB Rock gifts list that is doing very well, but I have been crushing face lately with a super traditional list with a few tweaks for the modern meta. I am currently 10-2-0 after 3 weeks of FNM Modern in a varied and skilled playing pool. Some of the noteworthy elements of the deck are:
No mana dorks main
4 Chalice Main
No discard effects main (anti-synergistic with Chalice for 1)
A few sources (finks and Timely) of lifegain/stall main
Other than those changes, a very traditional list with elesh/iona/crime/loam lock and varying counters/sweepers/spot removal/manlands to get the job done. It is running like clockwork within the current meta and hoses Burn, UR/UWR delver/pyro/swiftspear aggro. It still struggles against traditional foes such as GB Rock and Tron but has some sideboard cards to try to establish a 50/50 game 2&3. Will post list later on if there is any interest for it.
I came up against an opponent playing main deck blood moon last night and it was a complete pounding. Being 4C without red this is going to happen, and other than prioritizing fetch for basics, is there a good sideboard card to deal with this issue?
Congrads on your red-wings, every 4c players favorite way to go!
The best thing you can do is prioritize hands with basics and fetches that lead to playing your spells, holding up abrupt decay when you suspect it games 2 and 3 AND praying they don't have it.
I've had a bit of luck using batterskull and wurmcoil engine to help combat the card when you know you might need to play under it and celestial purge in the sideboard, just for it if its super prevalent in your meta.
I've drawn every card I'd want except gifts itself while under a blood moon--you want stuff you can cast.
Last night I got really lucky and drew a match against UR delver--he mooned me and I was able to somehow get away with hardcasting unburial rites for the elesh norn i had discarded to hand size a turn earlier. He snagged it, but it lost him the game. It was nearly a very beautiful and eventful win. Later on someone spectating said I should have just hardcasted the norn, not knowing that I only had a single basic plains (which was already in play).
I also love grave titan, even when he's pathed he usually buys you a turn or two at worst, and he's great for swinging in with and leaving chump blockers for you. He stabalizes VERY well. Coil is good against BG stuff, so if you see a lot of that.
In trying to build a loam deck, considering Modern doesn't have enough density of great cards to abuse loam I inevitably found myself with a gifts deck. But! I wanted a loam deck, so I tried my very hardest to not to get too fancy with gifts. After fiddling around with a lot of things, I've actually been pretty happy with what I've come to:
In putting this list together, my goal was to streamline the deck as much as possible. I'm happy to just control the game and then have gifts be an endgame recursion that decks can't deal with, or if needed to just net me +1 CA. Remember, I wanted to make a loam deck, so in building I've tried to view gifts ungiven as a way to setup loam recursion as much as possible. In doing this I decided to cut unburial/fatty, from the main at least. This combo is certainly a liability in too many matchups and for a streamlined deck I just want to have good draws as much as possible. Running too much support for gifts can give you bad draws in my opinion. I have included it in the sideboard though, because I think it's definitely something you want access to in matchups. It's possible running merchant scroll as a 5th gifts is even very good (as I did in the SB, but scroll could easily leave).
The next very obvious thing is that I'm really just a BUG deck. I splash a single white source for unburial rites sideboard strategies, but otherwise I'm on 3 colors. This is part of streamlining the deck--the more colors I want to push the more awkward everything I'm going to be doing becomes.
Syphon Life is certainly an interesting inclusion. It is certainly a very weak draw in a lot of cases, but given the current meta (i.e. full of burn) I think that having access to repeatable lifegain is very important. Additionally, it lets you easily turn your gifts piles into not only late game recursion but a win-con as well. You'd be surprised at how fast syphon life starts going after you find loam, since your manabase grows so large.
What kind of gifts piles am I looking to do with this deck? Well, as it turns out, there's not too many piles I want to consider. The first is always to evaluate if you just need value. Getting decay/snapcaster/Liliana/X is great for immediate answers. If you want to cross between direct answers and just winning, goyf/lily/snapcaster/gifts is very threatening. Otherwise I tend to just stack a loam + syphon life pile. Loam is your recursion and syphon life will turn into your victory after you've established a soft lock via loam. The other two cards have a few options. Engineered Explosives + Ruins is very flexible. Raven's crime has its uses against the right decks. Tec edge is a very slow plan, but you need access to it. And Mouth of Ronom is the last other land to consider. Mouth here is actually very good since it helps fill the loss of unburial rights to give a backbreaking recursion method against creature decks. 6 lands total is not a problem because of loam, and it sets up very nice lines like T4 gifts, T5 cast loam to get mouth back + have 3 mana open, T6 Mouth to kill something. You can use mouth to clear the board when needed, and then Syphon life when your opponent doesn't draw anything relevant to close out the game.
Tarmogoyf feels very important to me and is very good in a shell like this. He gets big quickly and ends the game quickly. Plus, it makes it difficult for decks to SB against you--keeping in removal is kind of awkward, but goyf is so powerful.
Snapcasters are very important for several reasons. As always, they give you great value. But in postboard games he lets you extend the usefulness of your stack control, since vs. combo and control this is often more important. Additionally, since disfigure is a main removal spell, snap blocks + disfigure let you take down things with 3 or 4 toughness that might slip through otherwise.
Inquisition is not my favorite card, but I think it helps in a lot of places. This deck should have a solid lategame to avoid the downsides to discard. Inquisition seems necessary to round out the curve. The 1cc removal options just aren't really there otherwise. Not sure if some number of thoughtseize should be there--the life seems like a liability in the current meta, but flexibility is highly valuable too.
Mana leak was chosen to have more ways to interact with combo decks, while still retaining usefulness in other matchups. It shouldn't be hard to justify, but I think this is a card that people usually get on the fence about. I'm happy to run this as an early game option, because with gifts I should have a significant advantage in the late game anyway. Plus with so many lilianas, people often discard lands to protect their other spells so it's likely to stay live for longer.
The SB is all sorts of a mess, so don't pay too much attention to it right now! There are a few worthwhile things. I think Norn + Unburial rites (+ maybe merchant scroll) should be there for sure. 2-3 forms of lifegain need to be in the SB, as it's always welcome, particularly with gifts. There should also be at least 4 counterspells--You have to side out a ton of removal against some decks. I picked disdainful stroke here for scapeshift (hits any creatures they bring in, as well as cryptic and scapeshift), twin (again to hit creatures they bring in, cryptic, their combo, dig through time), and control. I think there's definitely a better option, but I'm not quite sure what yet. Dimir charm looks like a great answer for delver decks (kills all their dudes or hits cruise), which is why I included extra copies in the board. Would prefer 1cc answers though.
Eternal witness is a nice SB trick to allow you to "tutor" for 1-of instants or sorceries by setting up a witness + snapcaster + X pile. It is for sure slow, but if the spells are strong enough it may be worth considering. I wouldn't be opposed to just putting Witness in the main. I was considering it over Lily 4.
Anyway, here is my current approach for Gifts. I haven't gotten to play too much because I'm still trying to evaluate the type of approach I want to take. Overall though I'm very happy with it. It's a lot more streamlined than other versions of gifts I've played, and I've definitely appreciated that consistency. It has the late game power I want, without the costs of running a ton of "junk" to support gifts, and has a lot of very different and hard to deal with threats (goyf, gifts, lily).
I'll try to say more as I get more games in. Suggestions/comments are very welcome!
EDIT: After testing a bit more, unburial to the SB I think was a horrible idea. You really lose a lot not being able to reanimate Norn against affinity and Pod. Liliana helped mitigate the downsides of a lot of the clunkier cards far more than I thought she would. 4 Snaps is also probably too much. I like them, but they're much less useful when you can't use them to end the game with burn spells.
Looking to test a wish package on 5c gifts and was wondering if you guys have any good suggestions on what to grab.
I've come up with the following so far.
Slaughter Games (against Scapeshift, Ad Nauseam), Abrupt Decay (Blood moon and Twin), Supreme Verdict and Firespout (creatures in general), Siege Rhino (when you need a threat and/or lifegain), Sphinx Revelation (when you run out of gas)
I'm trying to think of some other choices, specially against RG Tron and Delver/Burn. Any help would be appreciated.
@S_Valtrix: A few notes on your list, understandable that you want to streamline the deck to include 3 over 4 colors primarily. It can probably be done, but I would make some room for a way to beat the BG mirror. You can find space by cutting down to 1-2 or 3 snaps to start (perhaps add some oozes). I really like slaughter pact, and I think non-abrupt decay creatures like rhino are really good right now, you have to account for that. I really like sultai charm, especially as I'm not really missing liliana right now except out of the board.
I think the snow package for ronom is cute, the EE lock with ruins is good enough. Batterskull should be main, and so should your rites/norn. Overall I just say play the deck a bunch, and you'll probably wind up with a more standard list.
It may also help if you post your whole list, might be able to cover a missing hole somewhere main if you like.
This is a big update for me, I've committed and played out the gifts rock list with some changes (started and championed by many users but notably tirionstarz. I hate that its true, but I win a lot more games with 8 goyfs in the list.
It may also help if you post your whole list, might be able to cover a missing hole somewhere main if you like.
This is a big update for me, I've committed and played out the gifts rock list with some changes (started and championed by many users but notably tirionstarz. I hate that its true, but I win a lot more games with 8 goyfs in the list.
Thanks man, I'd appreciate that.
I'm running a version based on the old one I used to play: http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/123905
Here's the updated list:
I might try cutting a liliana or two for a sultai charm and another lingering souls. I could also see swapping a delta for a windswept heath. Your blood crypt may be better as a stomping ground, but thats worth experimenting with. I've been running basically your list for a year (minus the wish part), and I find that if they don't get spell snared, the carytids only die when you use them to chump when you're dying--they're much more reliable than hierarchs.
I also fiddled with a murmering bosk as my first fetch target and really liked it--it'll be helpful as you really need green and maybe also possibly white by turn 2, which is easy off a bosk.
The last thing that I didn't get to was a way to figure out how to close out the game a little earlier with this type of build--its soft to path to exile. I could see a kessig wolf run or something and maybe eventually a playset of knight? Rhino does real work, but a lot of games got away from me by my opponent drawing out of locks because I was so slow to follow up and end the game.
I might try cutting a liliana or two for a sultai charm and another lingering souls. I could also see swapping a delta for a windswept heath. Your blood crypt may be better as a stomping ground, but thats worth experimenting with. I've been running basically your list for a year (minus the wish part), and I find that if they don't get spell snared, the carytids only die when you use them to chump when you're dying--they're much more reliable than hierarchs.
I also fiddled with a murmering bosk as my first fetch target and really liked it--it'll be helpful as you really need green and maybe also possibly white by turn 2, which is easy off a bosk.
The last thing that I didn't get to was a way to figure out how to close out the game a little earlier with this type of build--its soft to path to exile. I could see a kessig wolf run or something and maybe eventually a playset of knight? Rhino does real work, but a lot of games got away from me by my opponent drawing out of locks because I was so slow to follow up and end the game.
Thanks for the tips.
Lack of pressure is definitely a problem which is why I changed it to be a bit more aggressive. The knights have been fantastic at holding down the fort and finishing games when required.
Went 3-1 with this build today on a modo daily though I'll probably tweak it a lot still. Lost to Boggles while kicking myself for forgetting to put Moat on the SB.
3 . I know and I also miss them manlands, but I can't find space to fit (I would get treetop or stirring wildwood) but I dont think we are Threat light . The mana base may not be perfect, Im always up for suggestions. I only have those few blue and black sources because with 9 fetches thats 9 extra sources (I think this is right in theory) and since you dont run liliana most of the time you only need 1 black and 1 blue. Liliana will be hard to beat, but remember you have 4 decays, explosives AND lingering souls. I think that liliana is no more threat than it already was. If we could get a pro to fix the manabase, I would appreciate it. It never was one of my strong suits .
3. I'd love a GB scars fast land to drop a dork or discard spell turn 1. I thought about using 3 razorverges but I have nothing to do with the white, so its useless unless you have noble in your opener AND its the correct play to not fetch. I will probably try 1 stirring wildwood, 1 creeping tarpit, and 1 treetop--I think they're all useful.
For the mana base in general, I use the following guide, if you use it too and then adjust a little bit to accommodate for knight activations we should be 95% on track. In the games with your list I never really had problems in practice, I just realized in a few games If I drew gifts I couldn't have cast it--luckily/unluckily, I never drew one in those games.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/
Someone went 3-1 with your exact list yesterday on MTGO, was you or a silent participant in this thread.
His list was played to a 4-0 the other day in a modern mtgo event (at least, says someone above). This is that list:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
4 Windswept Heath
(1) 11
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Darkblast
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Path to Exile
1 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
(3) 8
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Lingering Souls
1 Slaughter Pact
(4) 4
4 Gifts Ungiven
(5+) 4
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Unburial Rites
1 Thragtusk
1 Batterskull
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Negate
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Terastodon
3 Timely Reinforcements
I by no mean want to take attention away from the current GB Rock gifts list that is doing very well, but I have been crushing face lately with a super traditional list with a few tweaks for the modern meta. I am currently 10-2-0 after 3 weeks of FNM Modern in a varied and skilled playing pool. Some of the noteworthy elements of the deck are:
No mana dorks main
4 Chalice Main
No discard effects main (anti-synergistic with Chalice for 1)
A few sources (finks and Timely) of lifegain/stall main
Other than those changes, a very traditional list with elesh/iona/crime/loam lock and varying counters/sweepers/spot removal/manlands to get the job done. It is running like clockwork within the current meta and hoses Burn, UR/UWR delver/pyro/swiftspear aggro. It still struggles against traditional foes such as GB Rock and Tron but has some sideboard cards to try to establish a 50/50 game 2&3. Will post list later on if there is any interest for it.
Cheers - Old man
I by no mean want to take attention away from the current GB Rock gifts list that is doing very well, but I have been crushing face lately with a super traditional list with a few tweaks for the modern meta. I am currently 10-2-0 after 3 weeks of FNM Modern in a varied and skilled playing pool. Some of the noteworthy elements of the deck are:
No mana dorks main
4 Chalice Main
No discard effects main (anti-synergistic with Chalice for 1)
A few sources (finks and Timely) of lifegain/stall main
Other than those changes, a very traditional list with elesh/iona/crime/loam lock and varying counters/sweepers/spot removal/manlands to get the job done. It is running like clockwork within the current meta and hoses Burn, UR/UWR delver/pyro/swiftspear aggro. It still struggles against traditional foes such as GB Rock and Tron but has some sideboard cards to try to establish a 50/50 game 2&3. Will post list later on if there is any interest for it.
Cheers - Old man
Can we have your list please?
I came up against an opponent playing main deck blood moon last night and it was a complete pounding. Being 4C without red this is going to happen, and other than prioritizing fetch for basics, is there a good sideboard card to deal with this issue?
The best thing you can do is prioritize hands with basics and fetches that lead to playing your spells, holding up abrupt decay when you suspect it games 2 and 3 AND praying they don't have it.
I've had a bit of luck using batterskull and wurmcoil engine to help combat the card when you know you might need to play under it and celestial purge in the sideboard, just for it if its super prevalent in your meta.
Last night I got really lucky and drew a match against UR delver--he mooned me and I was able to somehow get away with hardcasting unburial rites for the elesh norn i had discarded to hand size a turn earlier. He snagged it, but it lost him the game. It was nearly a very beautiful and eventful win. Later on someone spectating said I should have just hardcasted the norn, not knowing that I only had a single basic plains (which was already in play).
I also love grave titan, even when he's pathed he usually buys you a turn or two at worst, and he's great for swinging in with and leaving chump blockers for you. He stabalizes VERY well. Coil is good against BG stuff, so if you see a lot of that.
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Mana Leak
4 Disfigure
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Dimir Charm
Threats (11)
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Snapcaster Mage
Gifts enablers (7)
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
1 Syphon Life
1 Unburial Rites
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Disdainful Stroke
1 Eternal Witness
1 Damnation
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Dimir Charm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Batterskull
In putting this list together, my goal was to streamline the deck as much as possible. I'm happy to just control the game and then have gifts be an endgame recursion that decks can't deal with, or if needed to just net me +1 CA. Remember, I wanted to make a loam deck, so in building I've tried to view gifts ungiven as a way to setup loam recursion as much as possible. In doing this I decided to cut unburial/fatty, from the main at least. This combo is certainly a liability in too many matchups and for a streamlined deck I just want to have good draws as much as possible. Running too much support for gifts can give you bad draws in my opinion. I have included it in the sideboard though, because I think it's definitely something you want access to in matchups. It's possible running merchant scroll as a 5th gifts is even very good (as I did in the SB, but scroll could easily leave).
The next very obvious thing is that I'm really just a BUG deck. I splash a single white source for unburial rites sideboard strategies, but otherwise I'm on 3 colors. This is part of streamlining the deck--the more colors I want to push the more awkward everything I'm going to be doing becomes.
Syphon Life is certainly an interesting inclusion. It is certainly a very weak draw in a lot of cases, but given the current meta (i.e. full of burn) I think that having access to repeatable lifegain is very important. Additionally, it lets you easily turn your gifts piles into not only late game recursion but a win-con as well. You'd be surprised at how fast syphon life starts going after you find loam, since your manabase grows so large.
What kind of gifts piles am I looking to do with this deck? Well, as it turns out, there's not too many piles I want to consider. The first is always to evaluate if you just need value. Getting decay/snapcaster/Liliana/X is great for immediate answers. If you want to cross between direct answers and just winning, goyf/lily/snapcaster/gifts is very threatening. Otherwise I tend to just stack a loam + syphon life pile. Loam is your recursion and syphon life will turn into your victory after you've established a soft lock via loam. The other two cards have a few options. Engineered Explosives + Ruins is very flexible. Raven's crime has its uses against the right decks. Tec edge is a very slow plan, but you need access to it. And Mouth of Ronom is the last other land to consider. Mouth here is actually very good since it helps fill the loss of unburial rights to give a backbreaking recursion method against creature decks. 6 lands total is not a problem because of loam, and it sets up very nice lines like T4 gifts, T5 cast loam to get mouth back + have 3 mana open, T6 Mouth to kill something. You can use mouth to clear the board when needed, and then Syphon life when your opponent doesn't draw anything relevant to close out the game.
Tarmogoyf feels very important to me and is very good in a shell like this. He gets big quickly and ends the game quickly. Plus, it makes it difficult for decks to SB against you--keeping in removal is kind of awkward, but goyf is so powerful.
Snapcasters are very important for several reasons. As always, they give you great value. But in postboard games he lets you extend the usefulness of your stack control, since vs. combo and control this is often more important. Additionally, since disfigure is a main removal spell, snap blocks + disfigure let you take down things with 3 or 4 toughness that might slip through otherwise.
Inquisition is not my favorite card, but I think it helps in a lot of places. This deck should have a solid lategame to avoid the downsides to discard. Inquisition seems necessary to round out the curve. The 1cc removal options just aren't really there otherwise. Not sure if some number of thoughtseize should be there--the life seems like a liability in the current meta, but flexibility is highly valuable too.
Mana leak was chosen to have more ways to interact with combo decks, while still retaining usefulness in other matchups. It shouldn't be hard to justify, but I think this is a card that people usually get on the fence about. I'm happy to run this as an early game option, because with gifts I should have a significant advantage in the late game anyway. Plus with so many lilianas, people often discard lands to protect their other spells so it's likely to stay live for longer.
The SB is all sorts of a mess, so don't pay too much attention to it right now! There are a few worthwhile things. I think Norn + Unburial rites (+ maybe merchant scroll) should be there for sure. 2-3 forms of lifegain need to be in the SB, as it's always welcome, particularly with gifts. There should also be at least 4 counterspells--You have to side out a ton of removal against some decks. I picked disdainful stroke here for scapeshift (hits any creatures they bring in, as well as cryptic and scapeshift), twin (again to hit creatures they bring in, cryptic, their combo, dig through time), and control. I think there's definitely a better option, but I'm not quite sure what yet. Dimir charm looks like a great answer for delver decks (kills all their dudes or hits cruise), which is why I included extra copies in the board. Would prefer 1cc answers though.
Eternal witness is a nice SB trick to allow you to "tutor" for 1-of instants or sorceries by setting up a witness + snapcaster + X pile. It is for sure slow, but if the spells are strong enough it may be worth considering. I wouldn't be opposed to just putting Witness in the main. I was considering it over Lily 4.
Anyway, here is my current approach for Gifts. I haven't gotten to play too much because I'm still trying to evaluate the type of approach I want to take. Overall though I'm very happy with it. It's a lot more streamlined than other versions of gifts I've played, and I've definitely appreciated that consistency. It has the late game power I want, without the costs of running a ton of "junk" to support gifts, and has a lot of very different and hard to deal with threats (goyf, gifts, lily).
I'll try to say more as I get more games in. Suggestions/comments are very welcome!
EDIT: After testing a bit more, unburial to the SB I think was a horrible idea. You really lose a lot not being able to reanimate Norn against affinity and Pod. Liliana helped mitigate the downsides of a lot of the clunkier cards far more than I thought she would. 4 Snaps is also probably too much. I like them, but they're much less useful when you can't use them to end the game with burn spells.
I've come up with the following so far.
Slaughter Games (against Scapeshift, Ad Nauseam), Abrupt Decay (Blood moon and Twin), Supreme Verdict and Firespout (creatures in general), Siege Rhino (when you need a threat and/or lifegain), Sphinx Revelation (when you run out of gas)
I'm trying to think of some other choices, specially against RG Tron and Delver/Burn. Any help would be appreciated.
I think the snow package for ronom is cute, the EE lock with ruins is good enough. Batterskull should be main, and so should your rites/norn. Overall I just say play the deck a bunch, and you'll probably wind up with a more standard list.
@Kerrick, in addition to the ones you listed:
1. ajani venjeant
2. keranos, god of storms
3. golgari charm
4. countersquall
5. fulminator mage
6. anathamancer
Thanks man, great suggestions.
Will give it a try on the next modern daily to see how viable it is.
This is a big update for me, I've committed and played out the gifts rock list with some changes (started and championed by many users but notably tirionstarz. I hate that its true, but I win a lot more games with 8 goyfs in the list.
Thanks man, I'd appreciate that.
I'm running a version based on the old one I used to play: http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/123905
Here's the updated list:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
25 cards
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Siege Rhino
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
7 cards
Spells
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Path to Exile
1 Raven's Crime
2 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Lingering Souls
3 Glittering Wish
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Batterskull
1 Unburial Rites
I also fiddled with a murmering bosk as my first fetch target and really liked it--it'll be helpful as you really need green and maybe also possibly white by turn 2, which is easy off a bosk.
The last thing that I didn't get to was a way to figure out how to close out the game a little earlier with this type of build--its soft to path to exile. I could see a kessig wolf run or something and maybe eventually a playset of knight? Rhino does real work, but a lot of games got away from me by my opponent drawing out of locks because I was so slow to follow up and end the game.
Thanks for the tips.
Lack of pressure is definitely a problem which is why I changed it to be a bit more aggressive. The knights have been fantastic at holding down the fort and finishing games when required.
Went 3-1 with this build today on a modo daily though I'll probably tweak it a lot still. Lost to Boggles while kicking myself for forgetting to put Moat on the SB.
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Lingering Souls
1 Raven's Crime
2 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
1 Academy Ruins
1 Island
1 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Path to Exile
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Siege Rhino
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Glittering Wish
1 Stomping Ground
3 Windswept Heath
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Slaughter Games
1 Firespout
1 Heroes' Reunion
1 Siege Rhino
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Stormbind
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Worm Harvest
1 Sphinx's Revelation