Damn, this style of deck sounds really cool, but I'm really getting my butt handed to me, mostly cause of my inexperience .
Is there a beginner style list that can get me to learn more about this particular type of zoo? I'm having a hard time with some stuff, like: What is considered a good hand? Creatures and Fetches? What are some good creatures to play in this. Geist? Smiter? 1 drops such as Ape or Lynx or Lion? What about others? I've heard about counters and stuff like bant charm and elspeth, what about those? Just any general help would be appreciated.
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Damn, this style of deck sounds really cool, but I'm really getting my butt handed to me, mostly cause of my inexperience .
Is there a beginner style list that can get me to learn more about this particular type of zoo? I'm having a hard time with some stuff, like: What is considered a good hand? Creatures and Fetches? What are some good creatures to play in this. Geist? Smiter? 1 drops such as Ape or Lynx or Lion? What about others? I've heard about counters and stuff like bant charm and elspeth, what about those? Just any general help would be appreciated.
This was my first serious modern deck. I watched a lot of streams to get in touch with the format and just played a lot. For learning, just net deck straight up. I did and modified my list over time to better fit common game scenarios. Good hands are matchup dependent, typically I want a turn two beater and then "stuff" against unknown. In the mirror, I like burn lol.
Hello lantern and friends! I am a magic player who is just now getting into all the compeitive formats. The only first I have yet to try is modern. This deck caught my eye on the top8 from the last major tournement. I have no real budget and own most if the cards for this deck thinking about giving it a go as My first modern deck but I don't know the meta game very well and was wondering if someone could let me know what this deck takes out and puts in for each MU. Thanks Mox
I know really know the basics of this sub of zoo, so one of the other guys will have to speak up on the matchups. From what I know, counters hurts this deck a lot, since its end reach is generally a super charged flames. But it tries to pack some much at the start of the game as well in forms of creatures.
So I watched ken yukuhiro playing his aquarium zoo list at GP Portland vs Gerry Thompson they mentioned voice of resurgance us he sideboarding these if so how many and why ? Can someone confirm he was even playing it?
Edit; I see you posted in the main GP thread he indeed plays voice is ur Maindeck latern ? Any chance someone has his decklist ? Was voice a meta call or is it a good core card in his list ? I also just purchased missing cards ( not voice) but I can pick that up at LGS . Maybe ge put ut in the lingering souls slot ??thanks mox
Double edit ; this card actualy looks awesome WiTH linger I'm
Very interested to see where he slotted it in.
Hi, I've been looking for a new modern deck to play because UWR geist is getting kind of stale. I already play Gruul zoo so I was looking around when I realized I own Geist of Saint TraftSnapcaster Mage fetches in UWR and stomping grounds in Gruul zoo so I could make this deck pretty easily.
This is what I have slipped up tested it yesterday shiver my friend list felt pretty awesome. I'll take it to my LGS next week for there modern day and give a report.
Hi, I've been looking for a new modern deck to play because UWR geist is getting kind of stale. I already play Gruul zoo so I was looking around when I realized I own Geist of Saint TraftSnapcaster Mage fetches in UWR and stomping grounds in Gruul zoo so I could make this deck pretty easily.
As far as basics are concerned I'd question any list running more than forest + plains. It is pretty key to be fully operational under 3 lands with an opponent staring at his/her useless tech edge. With that in mind, I'd try and have about half my fetches get forest.
If you're increasing shock lands, go with watery grave over overgrown tomb.
Other than the unanimous "play goyfs if you can afford them" comment, anyone who knows me can tell you I fully support Smiter in the main with zero lingering souls :D, haven't played souls in months, haven't lost any games because of it, haven't missed it.
I've recently been even more impressed with snappy but still wouldn't run the full 4, it conflicts with deathright.
4 path seems high. You might be right with the meta shift, but I've been seeing a lot of scapeshift.
personal I feel like domain pump is just asking to get 2:1'd. But if its working for you, disregard.
When you're playing pay attention to how often you get flooded with that count, I'm currently playing 21 myself.
As far as the sb, pithing needle and meddling mage have been doing work for me.
As far as basics are concerned I'd question any list running more than forest + plains. It is pretty key to be fully operational under 3 lands with an opponent staring at his/her useless tech edge. With that in mind, I'd try and have about half my fetches get forest.
If you're increasing shock lands, go with watery grave over overgrown tomb.
Other than the unanimous "play goyfs if you can afford them" comment, anyone who knows me can tell you I fully support Smiter in the main with zero lingering souls :D, haven't played souls in months, haven't lost any games because of it, haven't missed it.
I've recently been even more impressed with snappy but still wouldn't run the full 4, it conflicts with deathright.
4 path seems high. You might be right with the meta shift, but I've been seeing a lot of scapeshift.
personal I feel like domain pump is just asking to get 2:1'd. But if its working for you, disregard.
When you're playing pay attention to how often you get flooded with that count, I'm currently playing 21 myself.
As far as the sb, pithing needle and meddling mage have been doing work for me.
Why do you perfect watery grave to overgrown tomb? I wanted my 2 misty rainforest to access black. What MU do you favor Loxodon over linger and why? Does anyone still play elspeth I only have 1 but in my testing she has been a pretty awesome 1 of. I don't think I'd want 4 might of alara but without instant speed removal they declare no blocker for your 4/5 goyf and there at 14 might snap might for 4 mama suprize 10 damage sucker. It's a fine card
On PatH main deck how do you guys like it ? Are you playing aginst alot of tron I like the card but it doesn't feel like a core card for the Md when I have played it. I kind of see linger Loxodon voice elspeth and path to exile as the cards you can run In this decks 4-8 last swing slots not sure witch is best but so far in my testing it looks like linger > voice / Loxodon and 1-2 elspeth is good. Path just seems very MU dependant but I have added an extra in my SB it's been good vs tron as is alot of my SB.
So i did some test games just now against a friend i didn't even SB he did first he played his U/R delver legacy deck packing 3 md price of progress i went 4-1
played Against his storm deck for modern went 4-1
Things i noticed
i did not every really want 2 of the same shock and i got too many lands but never too few even with my mana dorks getting sniped which makes me think i can cut the 2nd R/g Shock im not too worried about lands hate and i liked overgrown tomb it was fine. i also REALLY liked voice when i would draw him he is a monster vs decks that play instant speed cards like any.... so goign up to a 2 voice 3 linger split still using 1 elspeth it feels good. has anyone done any extensive testing with voice in a tournement im goign to play at my LGS thursday. I currently have this slipped up
Why do you perfect watery grave to overgrown tomb? I wanted my 2 misty rainforest to access black. What MU do you favor Loxodon over linger and why? Does anyone still play elspeth I only have 1 but in my testing she has been a pretty awesome 1 of. I don't think I'd want 4 might of alara but without instant speed removal they declare no blocker for your 4/5 goyf and there at 14 might snap might for 4 mama suprize 10 damage sucker. It's a fine card
On PatH main deck how do you guys like it ? Are you playing aginst alot of tron I like the card but it doesn't feel like a core card for the Md when I have played it. I kind of see linger Loxodon voice elspeth and path to exile as the cards you can run In this decks 4-8 last swing slots not sure witch is best but so far in my testing it looks like linger > voice / Loxodon and 1-2 elspeth is good. Path just seems very MU dependant but I have added an extra in my SB it's been good vs tron as is alot of my SB.
Well this might shock you (pun intended), but with watery grave instead of overgrown tomb your Mistys still access black. Think about that. I prefer them because I used to run the overgrown tomb in that slot. I would occasionally wish it was watery grave in events, so I switched it. Haven't wanted it to be the overgrown yet. When I play, I usually cover getting a green source pretty early along with red and white. Later, when I have a fetch and am looking for blue to snapcaster and black to deathrite or get full domain, doing half and doubling up on green seems poor.
I currently run 3 snappy main and 3 mm out of the sb so I may use blue more than most. But when I ran 2 and 2 I still wanted the watery grave more than tomb.
I really prefer the smiter against anything with counter spells (you make sure it happens, all of it, and it's higher impact) or anything running liliana (the free "haste" crack back is way better than paying 2 mana for 2 power there). I used to run lingering, but I would occasionally just lose where smiter wouldn't have.
I also prefer the smiter against tron, it's more power more quickly when you're trying to race. It also doesn't get clasmed.
I know people like lingering against robots, but that matchup seems to revolve around beating the equipment and burning off a few buff guys.
I also know people like it against infect, and it's good there. However, with the 15 removal spells plus snapcasters, it is already a good matchup.
Smither has just been better against what you need it for. Being a 3 cc 4/4 it just has a higher floor than souls. It's a more aggressive card for a deck that wants to be aggressive.
I hadn't tested voice yet. No opinion on better or worse.
On might of alara: I feel like if they have no instant removal and no blockers on your 4/5 you shouldn't need much help winning. This deck really doesn't have a reach issue without it.
As far as killing bigger dudes, boros charm seems just as good and offers sweeper protection, not to mention deals respectable direct dmg without requiring something to go unblocked or in unbolted.
Straight up, I think elspeth is too expensive and makes you run more lands than you want to. If you land her though, jumping Geist is nuts.
On path: I used to run two, but kept running into wurmcoils and upped to three. There are times I wish it was a burn spell though. I'd never want to run 4.
Well this might shock you (pun intended), but with watery grave instead of overgrown tomb your Mistys still access black. Think about that. I prefer them because I used to run the overgrown tomb in that slot. I would occasionally wish it was watery grave in events, so I switched it. Haven't wanted it to be the overgrown yet. When I play, I usually cover getting a green source pretty early along with red and white. Later, when I have a fetch and am looking for blue to snapcaster and black to deathrite or get full domain, doing half and doubling up on green seems poor.
I currently run 3 snappy main and 3 mm out of the sb so I may use blue more than most. But when I ran 2 and 2 I still wanted the watery grave more than tomb.
I really prefer the smiter against anything with counter spells (you make sure it happens, all of it, and it's higher impact) or anything running liliana (the free "haste" crack back is way better than paying 2 mana for 2 power there). I used to run lingering, but I would occasionally just lose where smiter wouldn't have.
I also prefer the smiter against tron, it's more power more quickly when you're trying to race. It also doesn't get clasmed.
I know people like lingering against robots, but that matchup seems to revolve around beating the equipment and burning off a few buff guys.
I also know people like it against infect, and it's good there. However, with the 15 removal spells plus snapcasters, it is already a good matchup.
Smither has just been better against what you need it for. Being a 3 cc 4/4 it just has a higher floor than souls. It's a more aggressive card for a deck that wants to be aggressive.
I hadn't tested voice yet. No opinion on better or worse.
On might of alara: I feel like if they have no instant removal and no blockers on your 4/5 you shouldn't need much help winning. This deck really doesn't have a reach issue without it.
As far as killing bigger dudes, boros charm seems just as good and offers sweeper protection, not to mention deals respectable direct dmg without requiring something to go unblocked or in unbolted.
Straight up, I think elspeth is too expensive and makes you run more lands than you want to. If you land her though, jumping Geist is nuts.
On path: I used to run two, but kept running into wurmcoils and upped to three. There are times I wish it was a burn spell though. I'd never want to run 4.
Thanks for an awesome reply. First on misty I know it gets grave I'd just rather hard draw a forest and be able to use misty to play a turn 1 noble. I see why you built it how you did I'm on 3 snap as well. I think I still prefer linger but that's mostly becuase Im really liking voice who is even grosser vs counters and has good synergy with linger. I may even run a 3rd over the elspeth but I haven't really drew her alot so I want to test her more.
Might of alara is good. It's always been goid for me and looks like you never tried it. It's 5 damage for 1 mama most times giving you another 5 snap target for 1 mana. Like boros charm you can use it to pump a giest or w/e and possibly survive combat though I think might is still better here not even looking at cost. In addition this format is covered in bolts for removal. If someone bolts your goyf when the yard is only instant and land making them think should I wait to bolt on attack or just go now on my turn. Not to mention if they do it on attack you get a pump and counter the spell essitially . Running 2 gives you more consistant reach its just a good card I think 2 is the correct number.
On voice as SB or md how many cards that you bring in for control help you fight there control and are cards that deal damage? The card is always better than I expect and honestly not really bad aginst anything not to say I would board it out ever but it's been really good. If elspeth isn't that good in my testing I think I'll go 3. Again thanks for your input I don't think one way or anothe is correct both paths seems strong.
Thanks for an awesome reply. First on misty I know it gets grave I'd just rather hard draw a forest and be able to use misty to play a turn 1 noble. I see why you built it how you did I'm on 3 snap as well. I think I still prefer linger but that's mostly becuase Im really liking voice who is even grosser vs counters and has good synergy with linger. I may even run a 3rd over the elspeth but I haven't really drew her alot so I want to test her more.
Might of alara is good. It's always been goid for me and looks like you never tried it. It's 5 damage for 1 mama most times giving you another 5 snap target for 1 mana. Like boros charm you can use it to pump a giest or w/e and possibly survive combat though I think might is still better here not even looking at cost. In addition this format is covered in bolts for removal. If someone bolts your goyf when the yard is only instant and land making them think should I wait to bolt on attack or just go now on my turn. Not to mention if they do it on attack you get a pump and counter the spell essitially . Running 2 gives you more consistant reach its just a good card I think 2 is the correct number.
On voice as SB or md how many cards that you bring in for control help you fight there control and are cards that deal damage? The card is always better than I expect and honestly not really bad aginst anything not to say I would board it out ever but it's been really good. If elspeth isn't that good in my testing I think I'll go 3. Again thanks for your input I don't think one way or anothe is correct both paths seems strong.
Might of alara is just too conditional to be consistent for me. Sure it occasional cracks for five because your opponent has no blockers and no removal, but again, that situation already looks good for you. Sure, your opponent can miss play and try to burn off your dude at the wrong time (they have to make two separate timing mistakes for that to work, similar to messing up against vines in infect) and you can pump it with might and it gets in. Might isn't a bad spell exactly, its just something I'd play after the things I'm already playing guess. I've been cutting down on the Boros charms lately, but it still gets the nod over might for me because of those games you win with out sticking a single dude and just burning face. You just can't do that with might. By all means though if your opponents aren't playing around it or its just plain working for you, go with might (I'd love to live the dream and might something and then charm it for double strike lol). You can't argue with results... too much.
The control match really depends on the variant. I've found that pithing needle goes a long way in getting value off of manlands, shuts of walkers in a pinch, and lets you actually remove a batterskull permanently if it comes to that (but having to do that really sucks). Ramping geist is obviously good, and just casting smiter causes them issues. If I'm feeling saucy I'll bring in sulfur elemental, its an additional uncounterable surprise eot. Sulfur elemental also brings all the restos into bolt/helix range. He additional kills of timely reinforcement tolkens and takes finks out of value town. But honestly, you have to be carful with the elemental. Hilariously, one makes geist an effective 8/1, but two kills him. It also puts smiters into the same bolt range 5/3's. It sorta just ups the ante all around. I've definitely given my opponents 5/2 restos, but I knew I would be able to handle it. I just have to emphasis that I DON'T really recommend the sulfur elemental, but it is something I like to do .Try it if you want.
Well I don't know if I'm just good at using it or lucky or sample size is just to small but I've yet to get 2 for 1ed using it. It's litteraly never been bad. I played vs a guy at my lgs who got 2nd in a PTQ yesterday I 5-0ed him ;/. I'm up to 3 voice no elspeth the card continues to impress me. The dude had a bad MU though he was playing some weird Geist deck that tries to get out eldrazi conscription. He did say that for Thursday the local meta is EXTREMLY tron heavy so I need to think of a solid SB strategy he said its mostly R/G. Regaurdless my record with this deck is like 25-2 god this deck is gross 27 games is not a huge saneole size but my win % as of now is unreal.
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to this deck (I've been playing Jund in modern for quite a while new and I feel like trying something new).
This is a list I've been working on and I want to take it to a GPT on Thursday, I would love some advice about my list:
I wanted to try playing with Dark Confidant since I think he's fantastic in aggro. Also changed my Lingering Souls for Loxodon Smiter since I think he helps more in most match ups and that brings up my creature count to a number that makes me feel like running Domri Rade.
Let us know how it goes but I don't think this ddck needs any CA to win. You kill
On turn 4-5 all day without any CA in addition you tend to do 6+ damage to yourself fetching every game already I love bob but in a deck you want to go turn 1 dork turn 2 Geist and you very often are looking to the top of your ddck to finish a hand he's a really bad top deck after turn 2. But let us know if it works out. Domri has the same problems but worse he can wiff he's slow and even if you go dork domri you are applying 0 pressure and no creature damge turn 3 that's not what this deck wants to do IMO.
Is there a beginner style list that can get me to learn more about this particular type of zoo? I'm having a hard time with some stuff, like: What is considered a good hand? Creatures and Fetches? What are some good creatures to play in this. Geist? Smiter? 1 drops such as Ape or Lynx or Lion? What about others? I've heard about counters and stuff like bant charm and elspeth, what about those? Just any general help would be appreciated.
Fires Of Salvation
Must Read Post for any new player!
This was my first serious modern deck. I watched a lot of streams to get in touch with the format and just played a lot. For learning, just net deck straight up. I did and modified my list over time to better fit common game scenarios. Good hands are matchup dependent, typically I want a turn two beater and then "stuff" against unknown. In the mirror, I like burn lol.
Edit ; the aquarium list
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
20 lands
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Goblin Guide
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
20 creatures
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
20 other spells
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Forked Bolt
2 Lingering Souls
3 Molten Rain
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Zealous Persecution
Edit; I see you posted in the main GP thread he indeed plays voice is ur Maindeck latern ? Any chance someone has his decklist ? Was voice a meta call or is it a good core card in his list ? I also just purchased missing cards ( not voice) but I can pick that up at LGS . Maybe ge put ut in the lingering souls slot ??thanks mox
Double edit ; this card actualy looks awesome WiTH linger I'm
Very interested to see where he slotted it in.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Here is my initial list
Creatures 16
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Loxodon Smiter
Spells 20
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Might of Alara
4 Tribal Flames
4 Path to Exile
Lands 24
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1Island
How does my list look?
MODERN :symu::symw: UW Tron :symu::symw:
I run almost the same list but with Quirion Dryad instead of Loxodon Smiter and only 22 lands (with more shocks).
I took out a couple Might of Alara for Lingering Souls as well as I find them to be always good value.
1 bloodcrypt
1 breeding pool
1 godless shrine
1 hallowed fountain
2 misty rainforest
1 marsh flats
4 scalding tarn
1 steam vents
2 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 mountain
1 plains
1 sacred foundry
1 Overgrown tomb
4 deathrite shaman
4 Geist of saint Traft
4 Tarmogoyf
3 noble heiarch
3 Snapcaster mage
1 Voice of Resurgance
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 Might of Alara
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
3 Lingering souls
4 Tribal Flames
2 Ancient Grudge
2 aven mind censor
1 Slaughter games
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Path to exile
2 Molten rain
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
This is what I have slipped up tested it yesterday shiver my friend list felt pretty awesome. I'll take it to my LGS next week for there modern day and give a report.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
As far as basics are concerned I'd question any list running more than forest + plains. It is pretty key to be fully operational under 3 lands with an opponent staring at his/her useless tech edge. With that in mind, I'd try and have about half my fetches get forest.
If you're increasing shock lands, go with watery grave over overgrown tomb.
Other than the unanimous "play goyfs if you can afford them" comment, anyone who knows me can tell you I fully support Smiter in the main with zero lingering souls :D, haven't played souls in months, haven't lost any games because of it, haven't missed it.
I've recently been even more impressed with snappy but still wouldn't run the full 4, it conflicts with deathright.
4 path seems high. You might be right with the meta shift, but I've been seeing a lot of scapeshift.
personal I feel like domain pump is just asking to get 2:1'd. But if its working for you, disregard.
When you're playing pay attention to how often you get flooded with that count, I'm currently playing 21 myself.
As far as the sb, pithing needle and meddling mage have been doing work for me.
Why do you perfect watery grave to overgrown tomb? I wanted my 2 misty rainforest to access black. What MU do you favor Loxodon over linger and why? Does anyone still play elspeth I only have 1 but in my testing she has been a pretty awesome 1 of. I don't think I'd want 4 might of alara but without instant speed removal they declare no blocker for your 4/5 goyf and there at 14 might snap might for 4 mama suprize 10 damage sucker. It's a fine card
On PatH main deck how do you guys like it ? Are you playing aginst alot of tron I like the card but it doesn't feel like a core card for the Md when I have played it. I kind of see linger Loxodon voice elspeth and path to exile as the cards you can run In this decks 4-8 last swing slots not sure witch is best but so far in my testing it looks like linger > voice / Loxodon and 1-2 elspeth is good. Path just seems very MU dependant but I have added an extra in my SB it's been good vs tron as is alot of my SB.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
played Against his storm deck for modern went 4-1
Things i noticed
i did not every really want 2 of the same shock and i got too many lands but never too few even with my mana dorks getting sniped which makes me think i can cut the 2nd R/g Shock im not too worried about lands hate and i liked overgrown tomb it was fine. i also REALLY liked voice when i would draw him he is a monster vs decks that play instant speed cards like any.... so goign up to a 2 voice 3 linger split still using 1 elspeth it feels good. has anyone done any extensive testing with voice in a tournement im goign to play at my LGS thursday. I currently have this slipped up
1 bloodcrypt
1 breeding pool
1 godless shrine
1 hallowed fountain
2 misty rainforest
1 marsh flats
4 scalding tarn
1 steam vents
1 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 mountain
1 plains
1 sacred foundry
1 Overgrown tomb
4 deathrite shaman
4 Geist of saint Traft
4 Tarmogoyf
3 noble heiarch
3 Snapcaster mage
2 Voice of Resurgance
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 Might of Alara
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
3 Lingering souls
4 Tribal Flames
2 Ancient Grudge
3 aven mind censor
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Path to exile
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Well this might shock you (pun intended), but with watery grave instead of overgrown tomb your Mistys still access black. Think about that. I prefer them because I used to run the overgrown tomb in that slot. I would occasionally wish it was watery grave in events, so I switched it. Haven't wanted it to be the overgrown yet. When I play, I usually cover getting a green source pretty early along with red and white. Later, when I have a fetch and am looking for blue to snapcaster and black to deathrite or get full domain, doing half and doubling up on green seems poor.
I currently run 3 snappy main and 3 mm out of the sb so I may use blue more than most. But when I ran 2 and 2 I still wanted the watery grave more than tomb.
I really prefer the smiter against anything with counter spells (you make sure it happens, all of it, and it's higher impact) or anything running liliana (the free "haste" crack back is way better than paying 2 mana for 2 power there). I used to run lingering, but I would occasionally just lose where smiter wouldn't have.
I also prefer the smiter against tron, it's more power more quickly when you're trying to race. It also doesn't get clasmed.
I know people like lingering against robots, but that matchup seems to revolve around beating the equipment and burning off a few buff guys.
I also know people like it against infect, and it's good there. However, with the 15 removal spells plus snapcasters, it is already a good matchup.
Smither has just been better against what you need it for. Being a 3 cc 4/4 it just has a higher floor than souls. It's a more aggressive card for a deck that wants to be aggressive.
I hadn't tested voice yet. No opinion on better or worse.
On might of alara: I feel like if they have no instant removal and no blockers on your 4/5 you shouldn't need much help winning. This deck really doesn't have a reach issue without it.
As far as killing bigger dudes, boros charm seems just as good and offers sweeper protection, not to mention deals respectable direct dmg without requiring something to go unblocked or in unbolted.
Straight up, I think elspeth is too expensive and makes you run more lands than you want to. If you land her though, jumping Geist is nuts.
On path: I used to run two, but kept running into wurmcoils and upped to three. There are times I wish it was a burn spell though. I'd never want to run 4.
Thanks for an awesome reply. First on misty I know it gets grave I'd just rather hard draw a forest and be able to use misty to play a turn 1 noble. I see why you built it how you did I'm on 3 snap as well. I think I still prefer linger but that's mostly becuase Im really liking voice who is even grosser vs counters and has good synergy with linger. I may even run a 3rd over the elspeth but I haven't really drew her alot so I want to test her more.
Might of alara is good. It's always been goid for me and looks like you never tried it. It's 5 damage for 1 mama most times giving you another 5 snap target for 1 mana. Like boros charm you can use it to pump a giest or w/e and possibly survive combat though I think might is still better here not even looking at cost. In addition this format is covered in bolts for removal. If someone bolts your goyf when the yard is only instant and land making them think should I wait to bolt on attack or just go now on my turn. Not to mention if they do it on attack you get a pump and counter the spell essitially . Running 2 gives you more consistant reach its just a good card I think 2 is the correct number.
On voice as SB or md how many cards that you bring in for control help you fight there control and are cards that deal damage? The card is always better than I expect and honestly not really bad aginst anything not to say I would board it out ever but it's been really good. If elspeth isn't that good in my testing I think I'll go 3. Again thanks for your input I don't think one way or anothe is correct both paths seems strong.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
22 lands
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
17 creatures
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
1 Might of Alara
3 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
21 other spells
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Molten Rain
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Games
2 Stony Silence
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
Might of alara is just too conditional to be consistent for me. Sure it occasional cracks for five because your opponent has no blockers and no removal, but again, that situation already looks good for you. Sure, your opponent can miss play and try to burn off your dude at the wrong time (they have to make two separate timing mistakes for that to work, similar to messing up against vines in infect) and you can pump it with might and it gets in. Might isn't a bad spell exactly, its just something I'd play after the things I'm already playing guess. I've been cutting down on the Boros charms lately, but it still gets the nod over might for me because of those games you win with out sticking a single dude and just burning face. You just can't do that with might. By all means though if your opponents aren't playing around it or its just plain working for you, go with might (I'd love to live the dream and might something and then charm it for double strike lol). You can't argue with results... too much.
The control match really depends on the variant. I've found that pithing needle goes a long way in getting value off of manlands, shuts of walkers in a pinch, and lets you actually remove a batterskull permanently if it comes to that (but having to do that really sucks). Ramping geist is obviously good, and just casting smiter causes them issues. If I'm feeling saucy I'll bring in sulfur elemental, its an additional uncounterable surprise eot. Sulfur elemental also brings all the restos into bolt/helix range. He additional kills of timely reinforcement tolkens and takes finks out of value town. But honestly, you have to be carful with the elemental. Hilariously, one makes geist an effective 8/1, but two kills him. It also puts smiters into the same bolt range 5/3's. It sorta just ups the ante all around. I've definitely given my opponents 5/2 restos, but I knew I would be able to handle it. I just have to emphasis that I DON'T really recommend the sulfur elemental, but it is something I like to do
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
This is a list I've been working on and I want to take it to a GPT on Thursday, I would love some advice about my list:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Forest (Blood Moon was killing me without this)
1 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers:2
2 Domri Rade
Instants:8
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
Sorceries:4
4 Tribal Flames
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kor Firewalker (lots of mono red in my metagame)
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Path to Exile
I wanted to try playing with Dark Confidant since I think he's fantastic in aggro. Also changed my Lingering Souls for Loxodon Smiter since I think he helps more in most match ups and that brings up my creature count to a number that makes me feel like running Domri Rade.
On turn 4-5 all day without any CA in addition you tend to do 6+ damage to yourself fetching every game already I love bob but in a deck you want to go turn 1 dork turn 2 Geist and you very often are looking to the top of your ddck to finish a hand he's a really bad top deck after turn 2. But let us know if it works out. Domri has the same problems but worse he can wiff he's slow and even if you go dork domri you are applying 0 pressure and no creature damge turn 3 that's not what this deck wants to do IMO.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429