Nice list Danteh. I like the main deck Gore Clan Rampagers targeting GOST. Some suggestions: Consider using Gaea's Might for added value and strength. Reduce Snapcaster Mages to 2 and lone Mana leak, so that you can add Path to Exile for those hard to kill creatures like Wurm Coil Engine, Goyf or KOTR.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern WBG Abzan's Junk WBG BRG Jund BRG BRG Living End BRG BGU Sultai BGU
I like Might of Alara much better than Ghor-Clan, but only in Snapcaster builds. Might of Alara on Geist is pretty damn silly. Ghor-Clan is definitely solid, but with the burn we're running, I think we want to be running snapcaster anyway, and if we are, might of alara is just better.
I will say I'm bais in the fact of I like the flavor of naya zoo, and I hate blue. That I can admit.
But the meta just stacks up baddly for Domain zoo. Pros and cons in the current meta:
Pros-
Boasts the best burn of all zoo types
Has a 'Win out of no where" button with 2 flames or snap flames, better than other zoos.
Can be flexibly built out of anything you want
Cons-
Rolls over and dies to Bloodmoon/spreading seas
Rolls over and dies to Combo as most zoo decks do, unless you move away from aggression to midrange
Rolls over and dies to other aggro, unless you luck into 2+ helixes.
Hurts itself with a mana base, giving burn and tempo much better shots at taking you down.
Generally dies to the same hate normal zoo does.
The difference is this. Our meta is control decks, combo decks, and midrange decks. While The I win part of this deck is great against control and midrange, and give combo a race... moderns combo uses either a means tharts too fast for you to handle (Amulet) is uninteractive with you (Storm) or can beat you regardless (anger of the gods- in twin/scapeshift)
The midrange decks are using ways to heal as well as removal to void you, (Finks, or coraser) which makes their matchups better against you, and control does the same with lifegain, wipes and removal... soooo same deal.
Lets look at when this deck was at it's best... JUND rules the world. It was a meta deck that could oops I win. Before that when there was turn one duex of calamities, storm, ect. It was made to speed race combo with hopefully no interaction. Pretty unlike were were at right now... Espeically with a blood moon deck.
The best thing I can think of for this deck is to be naya zoo with access to tribal flames. Which at that point, its probably better to do just naya.
I while I mostly agree to you, I would like to say that it doesn't have a bad matchup against Combo. Reason being is that we have access to every sort of combo fighting card available as we have every color.
Have to agree with both of you. I made my list to be more mid-range so that I can handle combos and control but I am having a hard time with super aggro decks coz of the life I lose from fetchlands and shocklands. Currently considering revising my deck for the tourney I will be joining in a while coz of that stupid blue moon deck... yes I really do fear it hahaha
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern WBG Abzan's Junk WBG BRG Jund BRG BRG Living End BRG BGU Sultai BGU
Ended up top 16 out of 48+ players awhile ago (won an Academy Ruins)... Not bad considering I wont get anything beyond top 17
I lost to Rd 1 UWR midrange and Rd 2 Kiki Pod. I won against Rd 3 Liquimetal Deck, Rd 4 Blue Moon (Hardly believe it myself), Rd 5 Domain Zoo and Rd 6 Gifts. Some changes that I made last minute are -4 KOTR and +4 Smiters because of the rampant blue decks around (which is actually a great idea IMHO). Probably the biggest mistake I made on my first 2 rounds is keeping a hand with only 1 or 2 creatures (1 of it being GOST or Snapcaster which I don't like if I don't have noble). Threads of disloyalty also kicked my butt so I am thinking of adding Qasali Pridemages for it coz it can check UR twin and other Enchantments/artifacts that might pose a problem...
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Modern WBG Abzan's Junk WBG BRG Jund BRG BRG Living End BRG BGU Sultai BGU
3 big zoos in the 6-4 lists.
5 Small Zoos
4 Domains.
Heres some junk data... I complined the whole meta of zoo cards togther. this will show most popular/good cards. The top amount you can have is 48. So if a card shows up 4/48 it means it aint that big...
Fun notes. E1 beats out other 1 drops for zoo, Burning-tree barely makes a dent, Knight was the best 3 drop, after that cut off of E1, its even across zoo types, giest/noble/goblin guide, ect.
I notice a distinct lack of Dark Confidant in every decklist I've seen over the last few posts. Does no-one like drawing cards or has he been tested and is just bad?
^With regards to Dark Confidant, I find it bad for this deck coz we lose so much life from all the fetching of lands and stuff. I would rather use other stable midrange creature in that respect like Loxodon Smiter which is actually very good because of all the blue decks running rampant.
Was able to join a local GPT modern and ended up top 8 out of almost 30 players using my domain zoo. Almost the same build as before. I still prefer this over naya or blitz since it has far better reach than Midrange Naya or small zoo when I tried using them. It has also a good match up against Twin and other combo decks because of its fast clock with cards like Tribal Flames and Geist of Saint Traft. Was able to beat Naya zoo, U Tron and Merfolks. Lost to Affinity. Draw on Infect. For the playoffs, I lost against Boggles which I think is the worst match up for this deck. I did remove most of my sideboard against boggles at the last minute which is really a bad move. Best thing I did was to include my lone Elspeth, Knight Errant. She did great throughout most of my games, using it 2nd ability to pump my creatures!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern WBG Abzan's Junk WBG BRG Jund BRG BRG Living End BRG BGU Sultai BGU
Probably not. My radars hard on Naya zoo currently. Mostly what I see on MTGO, where small zoo is tops, then domain, then midrange. I'm wiping my data today though with the protour.
Day 1, 3 different zoos, just wanted to share all my thoughts about everything. These notes are all in order as they went down:
Round 1 has pod vs Domain zoo.
Surprised as how well it did what it did in the hands of that dude. Making incredibly stupid mistakes like not having rampager mana blows my mind.
Ghor-Clan Rampager is amazing. I can't stress it enough. Just like the commentator said, It plays mind games, climbs walls, saves creatures from hate, all around awesome.
this version is basically Naya with giest. I actually like giest, least backed with that much burn and aggression. I'd need to see more in action before I write it off as better than knight of the reliquary or smiter. But this match has made me consider it again, which is saying something.
Flames havent sold me. None of those matches did the 5 damage matter. The last game it was worth 4 points of damage, the same as boros charm.
I'd need to see more to show me this deck is worth it over. 1 card is a maybe for me (Giest) and flames is a Id need to see more of it, meaning I'm not sold just yet. BUT what it has shown me is that Ghor clan is boss and Path needs to be a strong 4 of. I might also take this as a note that you need more burn than just 4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 path. Probably 2-4 more burn. Could be boros, could be flames.
Kibler plays rock:
Path. Omg, path. Straight up, Path.
Knights do beat down man. Knights are good.
ooze is getting better. Probably better in big than anywhere else because the life gain is more worth it, and the games go longer, so he is needed more.
His whole sideboard is pretty much for combo. Is that good? On one hand it says "I am good enough against every non combo deck!" But also might just mean, "I am so bad against combo because I can't race"
Even birds will kill you in that deck after you got wolfrun. Damn that deck does not shy away from threats man.
Hmms. Lots of hmmmsss... Blood moon, choke, gust. Those are the cards sided into for non combo decks. basically, affinity, jund and control. basically... Yeah I'm going to revisit this later after I see how he does. My thought is, if he is good enough against the rest of the format, great, but if hes ;litterally trying to cover a glaring weakness while saccing the rest of his matchups, thats bad.
I'll be keeping these pie charts for a while. Until some major change anyways. Like a printing of a new E1 or nacatl or something. What ever would cause a shake up in the zoo meta.
Lists from MTGO that will be added to the new meta:
TurnOnTheTV (3-1)
Modern Daily #6834263 on 03/08/2014
Download a .dek file for use in Magic Online
Pro and semi pro isnt added yet because it didnt place yet.
Thoughts on lack of zoo placing
Lets be fair. Our twin matchup is pretty horrid. And there was a lot of twin. The commentators had a lot to say on that subject too. They said that pros were still taking big zoo, simply because they have a tendency to do that. I'm sure thats why there was the 3% of big zoo, 2% of small. But this was a insanely combo filled meta. I dont think that will stick. I do think the meta is still evolving, and and still rotating. Jund is coming back, thats for sure. When the meta settles we will see zoo rise in strength. Even fae showed up, which is great for us.
But I can say this for sure. I think we can be sure that domain isnt the way to go. Aquarium and domain only put a single deck into day 2. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that all these combo decks can still play tempo and midrange, so that land base pain just is too easily blown out. Also, with less Zoo in general to play against I think big zoo is probably becoming a worse choice. Although you can still go land hate in the deck with blood moon, something that could still be key. Over all... I think jund is probably better. Espeically as it was moving away from planeswalkers. Jund can still use dragons too.
But, heres the final though. I don't think zoo is a good choice right now (outside of Fmn) because the meta still needs to settle. Until then, youll just be blown out by random combo decks... Not to mention twin, because thats what show itself today. So my suggestion? Wait about a month. When the meta evens out it will be great.
WBG Abzan's Junk WBG
BRG Jund BRG
BRG Living End BRG
BGU Sultai BGU
EDH
R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
Pauper
RBGU Affinity RBGU
I think your best bet is being naya with a watery grave.
I will say I'm bais in the fact of I like the flavor of naya zoo, and I hate blue. That I can admit.
But the meta just stacks up baddly for Domain zoo. Pros and cons in the current meta:
Pros-
Boasts the best burn of all zoo types
Has a 'Win out of no where" button with 2 flames or snap flames, better than other zoos.
Can be flexibly built out of anything you want
Cons-
Rolls over and dies to Bloodmoon/spreading seas
Rolls over and dies to Combo as most zoo decks do, unless you move away from aggression to midrange
Rolls over and dies to other aggro, unless you luck into 2+ helixes.
Hurts itself with a mana base, giving burn and tempo much better shots at taking you down.
Generally dies to the same hate normal zoo does.
The difference is this. Our meta is control decks, combo decks, and midrange decks. While The I win part of this deck is great against control and midrange, and give combo a race... moderns combo uses either a means tharts too fast for you to handle (Amulet) is uninteractive with you (Storm) or can beat you regardless (anger of the gods- in twin/scapeshift)
The midrange decks are using ways to heal as well as removal to void you, (Finks, or coraser) which makes their matchups better against you, and control does the same with lifegain, wipes and removal... soooo same deal.
Lets look at when this deck was at it's best... JUND rules the world. It was a meta deck that could oops I win. Before that when there was turn one duex of calamities, storm, ect. It was made to speed race combo with hopefully no interaction. Pretty unlike were were at right now... Espeically with a blood moon deck.
The best thing I can think of for this deck is to be naya zoo with access to tribal flames. Which at that point, its probably better to do just naya.
WBG Abzan's Junk WBG
BRG Jund BRG
BRG Living End BRG
BGU Sultai BGU
EDH
R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
Pauper
RBGU Affinity RBGU
I lost to Rd 1 UWR midrange and Rd 2 Kiki Pod. I won against Rd 3 Liquimetal Deck, Rd 4 Blue Moon (Hardly believe it myself), Rd 5 Domain Zoo and Rd 6 Gifts. Some changes that I made last minute are -4 KOTR and +4 Smiters because of the rampant blue decks around (which is actually a great idea IMHO). Probably the biggest mistake I made on my first 2 rounds is keeping a hand with only 1 or 2 creatures (1 of it being GOST or Snapcaster which I don't like if I don't have noble). Threads of disloyalty also kicked my butt so I am thinking of adding Qasali Pridemages for it coz it can check UR twin and other Enchantments/artifacts that might pose a problem...
WBG Abzan's Junk WBG
BRG Jund BRG
BRG Living End BRG
BGU Sultai BGU
EDH
R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
Pauper
RBGU Affinity RBGU
5 Small Zoos
4 Domains.
Heres some junk data... I complined the whole meta of zoo cards togther. this will show most popular/good cards. The top amount you can have is 48. So if a card shows up 4/48 it means it aint that big...
4 Blood Moon
2 Breeding Pool
14 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
3 Hallowed Fountain
6 Horizon Canopy
3 Kessig Wolf Run
12 Marsh Flats
28 Misty Rainforest
6 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
10 Plains
17 Sacred Foundry
24 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
23 Stomping Ground
14 Temple Garden
28 Verdant Catacombs
2 Birds of Paradise
8 Burning-Tree Emissary
18 Experiment One
3 Flinthoof Boar
10 Geist of Saint Traft
24 Ghor-Clan Rampager
17 Goblin Guide
1 Grim Lavamancer
28 Kird Ape
12 Knight of the Reliquary
21 Loam Lion
8 Loxodon Smiter
16 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
16 Scavenging Ooze
6 Snapcaster Mage
4 Steppe Lynx
48 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
48 Wild Nacatl
4 Woolly Thoctar
8 Boros Charm
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
48 Lightning Bolt
35 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
7 Mutagenic Growth
38 Path to Exile
3 Pillar of Flame
16 Tribal Flames
3 Abrupt Decay
9 Ancient Grudge
6 Aven Mindcensor
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Batterskull
4 Blood Moon
3 Boros Charm
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Choke
7 Combust
2 Delay
8 Destructive Revelry
5 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Fracturing Gust
3 Fulminator Mage
11 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Gruul Charm
5 Kitchen Finks
7 Lightning Helix
2 Lingering Souls
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Mana Leak
9 Molten Rain
1 Mutagenic Growth
1 Negate
2 Path to Exile
3 Pyroclasm
1 Obstinate Baloth
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Ranger of Eos
1 Refraction Trap
2 Rule of Law
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Shatterstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Strangleroot Geist
12 Stony Silence
2 Swan Song
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thoughtseize
7 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Torpor Orb
5 Wear // Tear
2 Unified Will
2 Volcanic Fallout
Highlights in order:
Top 5 creatures:
Fun notes. E1 beats out other 1 drops for zoo, Burning-tree barely makes a dent, Knight was the best 3 drop, after that cut off of E1, its even across zoo types, giest/noble/goblin guide, ect.
Top 5 Spells:
I Should note that helix and up are 35+ copies, flames is 16 and boros is 8. Drops off a lot.
Top 10 Sideboard:
I cut Helix and Wear and Tear from the list as it seemed more of the other cards shown, and they were on the low end of that list.
">Helping to Invent Thopter/Depths in Old Ext
Creator of the Magic Humor Videos:
The Vintage Metagame The Original
Was able to join a local GPT modern and ended up top 8 out of almost 30 players using my domain zoo. Almost the same build as before. I still prefer this over naya or blitz since it has far better reach than Midrange Naya or small zoo when I tried using them. It has also a good match up against Twin and other combo decks because of its fast clock with cards like Tribal Flames and Geist of Saint Traft. Was able to beat Naya zoo, U Tron and Merfolks. Lost to Affinity. Draw on Infect. For the playoffs, I lost against Boggles which I think is the worst match up for this deck. I did remove most of my sideboard against boggles at the last minute which is really a bad move. Best thing I did was to include my lone Elspeth, Knight Errant. She did great throughout most of my games, using it 2nd ability to pump my creatures!
WBG Abzan's Junk WBG
BRG Jund BRG
BRG Living End BRG
BGU Sultai BGU
EDH
R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
Pauper
RBGU Affinity RBGU
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/pat-cox-talks-zoo-in-modern/
4 bolt
4 helix
4 path
4 flames
4 nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 tarmo
4 giest
3 ghor-clan Rampager
Some more stuffs. But those were the exact numbers of what I knew. I'm guessing there was some lions.
Round 1 has pod vs Domain zoo.
Kibler plays rock:
Kiblers List:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Domri Rade
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Blood Moon
2 Choke
1 Rule of Law
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Hmms. Lots of hmmmsss... Blood moon, choke, gust. Those are the cards sided into for non combo decks. basically, affinity, jund and control. basically... Yeah I'm going to revisit this later after I see how he does. My thought is, if he is good enough against the rest of the format, great, but if hes ;litterally trying to cover a glaring weakness while saccing the rest of his matchups, thats bad.
From Unban to GP Richmond
I'll be keeping these pie charts for a while. Until some major change anyways. Like a printing of a new E1 or nacatl or something. What ever would cause a shake up in the zoo meta.
Lists from MTGO that will be added to the new meta:
TurnOnTheTV (3-1)
Modern Daily #6834263 on 03/08/2014
Download a .dek file for use in Magic Online
Main Deck
60 cards
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
21 lands
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
23 creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
16 other spells
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Angel's Grace
2 Back to Nature
2 Combust
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Stony Silence
2 Swan Song
2 Tormod's Crypt
15 sideboard cards
prolepsis9 (3-1)
Modern Daily #6834263 on 03/08/2014
Download a .dek file for use in Magic Online
Main Deck
60 cards
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
22 lands
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Wild Nacatl
25 creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
13 other spells
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Batterskull
2 Blood Moon
2 Combust
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Rule of Law
1 Shatterstorm
2 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Torpor Orb
1 Wear // Tear
15 sideboard cards
60 cards
2 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
19 lands
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
32 creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
9 other spells
2 Blood Moon
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Wear // Tear
15 sideboard cards
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
19 lands
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
32 creatures
2 Mutagenic Growth
1 Path to Exile
2 Pillar of Flame
9 other spells
3 Boros Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Molten Rain
2 Path to Exile
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
15 sideboard cards
I've updated the pie charts now to reflect the most updated MTGO results and pro showings. The pie chart shows top 16 spots.
Day 2 of GP richmond had:
8 small zoos,
1 domain Zoo,
1 Aquarium,
14 big zoos.
Mtgo: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0Auv6HzRHeewOdDg3QUtqSFVOREE1VzhEejZIWjR6aUE&oid=4&zx=kfhceu5w1y5c
Pro and semi pro isnt added yet because it didnt place yet.
Thoughts on lack of zoo placing
Lets be fair. Our twin matchup is pretty horrid. And there was a lot of twin. The commentators had a lot to say on that subject too. They said that pros were still taking big zoo, simply because they have a tendency to do that. I'm sure thats why there was the 3% of big zoo, 2% of small. But this was a insanely combo filled meta. I dont think that will stick. I do think the meta is still evolving, and and still rotating. Jund is coming back, thats for sure. When the meta settles we will see zoo rise in strength. Even fae showed up, which is great for us.
But I can say this for sure. I think we can be sure that domain isnt the way to go. Aquarium and domain only put a single deck into day 2. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that all these combo decks can still play tempo and midrange, so that land base pain just is too easily blown out. Also, with less Zoo in general to play against I think big zoo is probably becoming a worse choice. Although you can still go land hate in the deck with blood moon, something that could still be key. Over all... I think jund is probably better. Espeically as it was moving away from planeswalkers. Jund can still use dragons too.
But, heres the final though. I don't think zoo is a good choice right now (outside of Fmn) because the meta still needs to settle. Until then, youll just be blown out by random combo decks... Not to mention twin, because thats what show itself today. So my suggestion? Wait about a month. When the meta evens out it will be great.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0Auv6HzRHeewOdDg3QUtqSFVOREE1VzhEejZIWjR6aUE&oid=5&zx=iruu6so5nfxw
Channel fireball on domain zoo.
Edit: watched it. Was it just me or *****ty mana based just crapped on him round after round.
Modern Daily #6923061 on 03/31/2014
Download a .dek file for use in Magic Online
Main Deck
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
21 lands
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
24 creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Mutagenic Growth
4 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
15 other spells
Sideboard
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Torpor Orb
15 sideboard cards