Midrange. Stealing anything thats theirs thats big to finish them off it great.
Ramp decks (trons) because you need one last swing against them ususally, and this puts it away.
I also bring it in against infect. You let them pump it up, then steal it so they wasted everything. SOmetimes you steal a spell skite after they did half of their pumps and you can absorb the other half.
I really love bringing it in against twin. If you can manage it manawise (Usually you can, because they will flash it in during attacks to tap down a dude rather than mana) you let them do their thing. then they will cast twin on their turn, targeting exarch. You cast act, steal exarch, twin resolves. They end their turn, you make a million tokens that wont sac until BEGINNING OF NEXT END STEP, then for the last trigger be clear to announce your untapping a land. It goes back to them tapped now, and you swing and win.
Im very torn on keeping Mindbreak Trap in my side for Storm, ANT and even helpful against Elves. I have been able to do well racing against those decks as my Haste/Speed Zoo is pretty quick especially if Im on the play, so I may not need it.
Seeing my list what do you think in place of Mindbreak Trap would be better. Im considering 3 Dismember or possibly 3 Thrun for midrange/late game.
Adding W for Path to Exile has been helpful but slightly slower, still working out the balance.
Dropping Torpor Orb for me with BTE isnt much of an issue but if not depending on the circumstances I would usually drop him turn 3.
[quote from="Lantern »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/219912-zoo-video-primer?comment=2079"]May sound a silly question but I´m not 100% sure of how stealing a creature works.
Well first off... next time that infect player tries to say in combat damage step I pump, go a head and tell him he missed his window, because you cant use the stack then. He should have done it while he has priority after you delcared blocks or no blocks, end of story.
It act of aggression you can steal when ever you can play an instant. Meaning you can cast it on your turn on main phace if you wanna attack with it. You can cast it upkeep inresponce to a clique trigger, you can cast it during attackers if they flash in a blocker or animate a land, (its past declare attackers so you cant attack with it, but it removes their ability to block.) you can cast it after blocks are announced, say as if they block with a snapcaster then bolt (your creature remains blocked, but you might have saved it from death. likewise if it has trample, you will deal the full amount through)
The only times you cant steal a creature with it is A. during draw. B.During combat damage C. if the creature gets protection (brave the elements / vines of vastwood
As far as replacing things... The sideboard I have right now works as a whole. taking out stuff for other stuff just because its good might not be a great idea. For example, taking out chained to the rocks for vines might be bad, because you lower your aggro matchup for redondent twin hate, and not needed control hate.
What I mean by this is if you take out one card in the side, you'll probably have to readjust the whole side to cover the gap. Or at least thats how I built it. it all leans on each other.
Im very torn on keeping Mindbreak Trap in my side for Storm, ANT and even helpful against Elves. I have been able to do well racing against those decks as my Haste/Speed Zoo is pretty quick especially if Im on the play, so I may not need it.
Seeing my list what do you think in place of Mindbreak Trap would be better. Im considering 3 Dismember or possibly 3 Thrun for midrange/late game.
Adding W for Path to Exile has been helpful but slightly slower, still working out the balance.
Dropping Torpor Orb for me with BTE isnt much of an issue but if not depending on the circumstances I would usually drop him turn 3.
I've been wanting to play zoo for a long time, I posted a while back asking about budget zoo, but I've moved past that a little bit. I have access to a decent amount of cards, however I do not have Gofys. I just can't afford that right now.
I have access to the following, and from what I've been reading I can make a sort of alright deck with it. But I would love some feedback on what the best combination of it to run is.
Yeah, I need to look into standard brave. I hear its basicly zoo, just standard zoo.
Ive been really happy to see zoo constantly working in standard lately. Thats good news for us. Easy for people to get into zoo, also MORE CARDS. whoo...
Thats what Id do if I were you. 3 Stomping Ground, 3 Temple Garden, 3 Sacred Foundry, 1 of each basic is what I added that you didnt list. Also, Id suggest getting your hands on qasali Pridemage and play that over ooze. Trust me, you'll find it better.
I knew there was something I forgot, I also have a play set of those.
I see you run Boros Charms a lot. I don't have those listed because it's played a lot in standard. Should I be running them as well?
Edit: I've kinda mashed some of these cards together based on what I've been reading in the thread. Blood Moon always blows me out, but I see Zoo lists that run it in the side? How do you beat it? Do you fetch basics before you go to cast it if you side it in?
In a more all in deck you could run boros charm, but 9 times outta ten its will just be for 4 damage before anything else. If you were going to do that, Id probably cut the fint hoofs and oozes for it, add one more lion into the main. Ive seen people run 1 drop zoo like that before and 4-0 online, so its not a stretch.
As far as blood moon goes, our only real defense is to crack smart. Obviously any land will get you access to red in a blood moon, so you really only need to accure a plains and forest to be fine through one. Even then, sometimes just a plains will do if you have out 2 nacatls and a e1. You can always path your weakest creature as well to ensure the forest.
When its run in the board, as I do all the time, its more of an Armageddon then a lock. You, luckally, know when and where a blood moon will be thrown down so you can control your basics flow. More so, against some decks you just toss it down like said Armageddon knowing full well you're screwed mana wise, but hey, so is he and you have a goblin guide out, while he has nothing.
Why do you have so much artifact hate? thats 8 artifact hate, 6 enchantment hate... do you have that much twin/affinity?
I think you might be better off with eidilon of the great revel over mindbreak anyways.
Yeah I see a lot of Affinity, Bant/Bogles, Twin, Pod, Tron. Also I see a lot of Spellskites. Artifact and Enchantment hate a huge for me. I may go down to 7 and 5 but so far 8 and 6 have worked out well.
I may need to try Eidolon in this deck for siding against Storm in this deck.
So were 4 weeks into ptq season, and as with every modern season (2 seasons in since kitty unban) I wipe the slate clean and look at the results from online and ptq with nacatl.
Heres our changes:
So as you can see, not many PTQs for us, and the ones we did top 8 were with a naya zoo. I know one of them didnt include nacatl at all, and was much different then the normal zoo's youd see.
Other than this we have tribal flames zoo doing well. I'm sure this has to do mostly with giest being a beat stick, rather than flames, as well as pat cox's super indepth guide to how to run it, so its sorta the default zoo. I also have imperfect results here because I'm relaying on other peoples twitter, rather than a site that puts it out.
on mtgo, we see pat coxs list verbatium, so thats what that is. He released an article and we were flooded with people doing it. Always happens, and that was 2 weeks ago, so take this pie chart with a grain of salt. It is only 4 weeks old after all.
Blue zoo lists, aka aquariums have popped up a bit in the last 4 weeks. I actually don't like these bant charm lists, I think they are just bad delvers... but the counters help in a meta full of combo.
All and all, zoo's still having the same problem its had since the unban. No Pro plays it and does really well with it (note: top 16) and so the hive mind isnt picking it up. Pat cox did the best ever getting 32nd? I beleive, so his list is the default list for zoo.
Also, the guys running blue zoo have more and more been doing stuff like this:
I mean, their not wrong Twin isnt a great matchup, and pod is a bad matchup, and those are the two biggest decks. If pod were to get banned/hated, then we'd be in a better position.
Went 3-1 with Naya Zoo based off the list that Lantern suggested. Got 3rd place.
Made a few changes to it with pridemages and added Brimaz as a two of. Cats did work in my last match with tron. Slowing him down with the pridemages and then went to town with the Oreo King. Love zoo.
2-0 Against Burn.
Raced him mostly. Goblin Guide did a ton of work early game, boarded in Kitchen Finks which helped keep me floating the second game.
1-2 Against Fish
I ran over him the first game, but in the next two once the pumped hit I was done. Spreading seas screwed me over a lot too.
2-1 Against 8Rack
This wasn't very hard, he just was new.
2-1 Against Tron
This was one of my harder matches I boarded in a lot of artifact hate to try and slow him down which ended up working with Brimaz at 4 tokens doing a lot of work. Nobody has played Zoo where I live and it's the first time a lot of people play against it when they play me.
I mean, their not wrong Twin isnt a great matchup, and pod is a bad matchup, and those are the two biggest decks. If pod were to get banned/hated, then we'd be in a better position.
I know, we can only hope. Twin is a race against the Oops, they win button and pod is generally good against us. I have won, but it's tough. We can only hope they ban pod.
The event was Thursday Night Modern that our local shop runs every week. This is the list that I ran based of what you recommended, and me tweaking after looking at some of your lists. I also adjust for borrowed fetches. Is 11 to many?
After last night, the Wolf Run is getting cut. I just don't like it all that much. It never did anything for me. I also am not a fan of the E1s either.
I mean, their not wrong Twin isnt a great matchup, and pod is a bad matchup, and those are the two biggest decks. If pod were to get banned/hated, then we'd be in a better position.
I know, we can only hope. Twin is a race against the Oops, they win button and pod is generally good against us. I have won, but it's tough. We can only hope they ban pod.
I mean I much rather hope it gets hated out. Torpor Bird goes a ways to help, but I doubt its good enough
Ok im sold
http://youtu.be/H6fa74-exO8
Im very torn on keeping Mindbreak Trap in my side for Storm, ANT and even helpful against Elves. I have been able to do well racing against those decks as my Haste/Speed Zoo is pretty quick especially if Im on the play, so I may not need it.
Seeing my list what do you think in place of Mindbreak Trap would be better. Im considering 3 Dismember or possibly 3 Thrun for midrange/late game.
Adding W for Path to Exile has been helpful but slightly slower, still working out the balance.
Dropping Torpor Orb for me with BTE isnt much of an issue but if not depending on the circumstances I would usually drop him turn 3.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
3 Flinthoof Boar
2 Rip-Clan Crasher
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
10 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Searing Blaze
4 Sudden Shock
2 Rancor
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Stomping Ground
4 Krosan Grip
4 Torpor Orb
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Shattering Spree
2 Destructive Revelry
Well first off... next time that infect player tries to say in combat damage step I pump, go a head and tell him he missed his window, because you cant use the stack then. He should have done it while he has priority after you delcared blocks or no blocks, end of story.
It act of aggression you can steal when ever you can play an instant. Meaning you can cast it on your turn on main phace if you wanna attack with it. You can cast it upkeep inresponce to a clique trigger, you can cast it during attackers if they flash in a blocker or animate a land, (its past declare attackers so you cant attack with it, but it removes their ability to block.) you can cast it after blocks are announced, say as if they block with a snapcaster then bolt (your creature remains blocked, but you might have saved it from death. likewise if it has trample, you will deal the full amount through)
The only times you cant steal a creature with it is A. during draw. B.During combat damage C. if the creature gets protection (brave the elements / vines of vastwood
As far as replacing things... The sideboard I have right now works as a whole. taking out stuff for other stuff just because its good might not be a great idea. For example, taking out chained to the rocks for vines might be bad, because you lower your aggro matchup for redondent twin hate, and not needed control hate.
What I mean by this is if you take out one card in the side, you'll probably have to readjust the whole side to cover the gap. Or at least thats how I built it. it all leans on each other.
Why do you have so much artifact hate? thats 8 artifact hate, 6 enchantment hate... do you have that much twin/affinity?
I think you might be better off with eidilon of the great revel over mindbreak anyways.
I have access to the following, and from what I've been reading I can make a sort of alright deck with it. But I would love some feedback on what the best combination of it to run is.
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Experiment One
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Goblin Guide
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Kird Ape
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Loam Lion
2x Marsh Flats
4x Path to Exile
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wild Nacatl
This is what I have access to, on top of pretty well everything in Standard Naya Aggro/Brave.
Ive been really happy to see zoo constantly working in standard lately. Thats good news for us. Easy for people to get into zoo, also MORE CARDS. whoo...
If I were you Id probably do something like this:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Loam Lion
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Flinthoof Boar
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
3 Sacred Foundry
Thats what Id do if I were you. 3 Stomping Ground, 3 Temple Garden, 3 Sacred Foundry, 1 of each basic is what I added that you didnt list. Also, Id suggest getting your hands on qasali Pridemage and play that over ooze. Trust me, you'll find it better.
I see you run Boros Charms a lot. I don't have those listed because it's played a lot in standard. Should I be running them as well?
Edit: I've kinda mashed some of these cards together based on what I've been reading in the thread. Blood Moon always blows me out, but I see Zoo lists that run it in the side? How do you beat it? Do you fetch basics before you go to cast it if you side it in?
As far as blood moon goes, our only real defense is to crack smart. Obviously any land will get you access to red in a blood moon, so you really only need to accure a plains and forest to be fine through one. Even then, sometimes just a plains will do if you have out 2 nacatls and a e1. You can always path your weakest creature as well to ensure the forest.
When its run in the board, as I do all the time, its more of an Armageddon then a lock. You, luckally, know when and where a blood moon will be thrown down so you can control your basics flow. More so, against some decks you just toss it down like said Armageddon knowing full well you're screwed mana wise, but hey, so is he and you have a goblin guide out, while he has nothing.
Yeah I see a lot of Affinity, Bant/Bogles, Twin, Pod, Tron. Also I see a lot of Spellskites. Artifact and Enchantment hate a huge for me. I may go down to 7 and 5 but so far 8 and 6 have worked out well.
I may need to try Eidolon in this deck for siding against Storm in this deck.
4x wild nacatl
4x noble hiearch
2x snapcaster mage
4x tarmogoyf
4x ghor-clan rampager
4x geist of saint traft
4x lightning bolt
2x lightning helix
4x path to exile
3x unified will
Lands
4x arid mesa
4x scalding tarn
4x misty rainforest
1x verdant catacomb
1x stomping ground
1x sacred foundry
1x temple garden
1x breeding pool
1x steam vents
1x hallowed fountain
1x forest
1x plains
I've noticed blue zoo doing some work recently and I've been liking it on cockatrice, what are your thoughts?
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Heres our changes:
So as you can see, not many PTQs for us, and the ones we did top 8 were with a naya zoo. I know one of them didnt include nacatl at all, and was much different then the normal zoo's youd see.
Other than this we have tribal flames zoo doing well. I'm sure this has to do mostly with giest being a beat stick, rather than flames, as well as pat cox's super indepth guide to how to run it, so its sorta the default zoo. I also have imperfect results here because I'm relaying on other peoples twitter, rather than a site that puts it out.
on mtgo, we see pat coxs list verbatium, so thats what that is. He released an article and we were flooded with people doing it. Always happens, and that was 2 weeks ago, so take this pie chart with a grain of salt. It is only 4 weeks old after all.
Blue zoo lists, aka aquariums have popped up a bit in the last 4 weeks. I actually don't like these bant charm lists, I think they are just bad delvers... but the counters help in a meta full of combo.
All and all, zoo's still having the same problem its had since the unban. No Pro plays it and does really well with it (note: top 16) and so the hive mind isnt picking it up. Pat cox did the best ever getting 32nd? I beleive, so his list is the default list for zoo.
Also, the guys running blue zoo have more and more been doing stuff like this:
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
4 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Stony Silence
1 Swan Song
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Made a few changes to it with pridemages and added Brimaz as a two of. Cats did work in my last match with tron. Slowing him down with the pridemages and then went to town with the Oreo King. Love zoo.
2-0 Against Burn.
Raced him mostly. Goblin Guide did a ton of work early game, boarded in Kitchen Finks which helped keep me floating the second game.
1-2 Against Fish
I ran over him the first game, but in the next two once the pumped hit I was done. Spreading seas screwed me over a lot too.
2-1 Against 8Rack
This wasn't very hard, he just was new.
2-1 Against Tron
This was one of my harder matches I boarded in a lot of artifact hate to try and slow him down which ended up working with Brimaz at 4 tokens doing a lot of work. Nobody has played Zoo where I live and it's the first time a lot of people play against it when they play me.
I know, we can only hope. Twin is a race against the Oops, they win button and pod is generally good against us. I have won, but it's tough. We can only hope they ban pod.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
The event was Thursday Night Modern that our local shop runs every week. This is the list that I ran based of what you recommended, and me tweaking after looking at some of your lists. I also adjust for borrowed fetches. Is 11 to many?
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Voice of Resurgence
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
12 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Torpor Orb
2 Glaring Spotlight
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Destructive Revelry
After last night, the Wolf Run is getting cut. I just don't like it all that much. It never did anything for me. I also am not a fan of the E1s either.
I mean I much rather hope it gets hated out. Torpor Bird goes a ways to help, but I doubt its good enough