Course anytime. Kiblars keepin his mouth shut tight about modern nacatls, so someones got to do the heavy lifting for a while...
If youtube doesnt unrepeal my stupid Jurrasic park theme in the video in like 2 days, I'll be re doing them. I still have the footage
Cool!
Lantern, could you please explain how to use the sideboard, what to side in and out, when and against what. That would be really helpful. Many thanks in advance!
I'm pretty psyched about testing out the "Speed" version myself when I get the chance. Gruul Zoo with a slight splash seems like a good place to start, considering it was already a player in the latest metagame.
One nitpick I will mention, after watching your videos Lantern, is the manabase. I think with so much red in the deck, we'd rather have something like 3 Stomping Ground, 2 Sacred Foundry, and 1 Temple Garden. I'm not even sure we want the plains at all, since Blood Moon rarely is relevant against us. But it's probably fine, just sucks when you randomly draw it. Still, I think we need double red much more than double green, so Sacred Foundry just seems better as our 2nd favorite shockland in this build.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
i really love playing small zoo. my one gripe with it is that if zoo mirrors become common, everyone will trend bigger and bigger since big zoo beats small zoo. too bad. also lantern, why do you call kibler kiblar?
Round 1: GR Tron
[Spoiler]
Starting Hand: Goblin Guide, Nacatl, Helix, Path, 3 lands
I was otp. I drew 2 Rampager and I dont cared about his Turn 3 Tron into Karn. Killed him on Turn 4.
1-0
Board:
-4 Smiter, +2 Boros Charm, +2Grudge
Nacatl, Goyf, Rampager, Ape, Helix, 2 lands.
I saw a Spellskite but powered through it with Rampager. I killed him before Goyf even mattered. It took a turn longer cuz of his Spellskite, but he got no optimal hand and had to take a mulligan.
2-0
I still think we are very favored in this matchup. They cant easily switch their Pyroclasm to Firespout, it will come too late, imo. It will also worsen their Affinity matchup but whatever, not my problem.
[/Spoiler]
Round 2: Merfolk
[Spoiler]
On the draw. Mulligan, 5 lands in my starting 7.. Did I mention that 20 lands are enough?
I kept my 6: E1, Rampager, Guide, Ape, 2 lands. Seems decent. Unfortunatly I drew 2 other Rampagers instead of removal and am dead on turn 4. If I would have begun I would have won. Vapor Snag sucks against Rampager pump but I had to do it.
0-1
Hm 3 Lands, Rampager, E1, Path and Fallout on my hand. I tryed this out, cuz Fallout might buy me time. It somehow worked out and we both went into topdeck mode. I hardcasted Rampager and drew a GG next turn and had 1 land in hand. While he had 2 cards in hand too, 1 Vial on 3 + 1 Vial on 2, I attacked with rampager + GG while he was on 7 life. He showed me a Vapor Snag but its pretty crappy in this situation At last its forcing me to bloodrush the Rampager on GG, using all my red mana and to give him 1 more drawstep at 1 life. He did find his 3rd Vial though and sighs.
Dont know why you cry about bad topdecks if you put em in your deck in the first place?
1-1
Game 3 I had to mulligan to 5 because my lands were mean to me. Plains + Mountain in my starting hand alongside Goyf, E1, Rampager and Nacatl doesnt work. Same thing on my starting 6, Temple Garden + Canopy, but Kird Ape and Goblin Guide. Damn it.
So my starting 5: Rampager, Nacatl, E1, Bolt, Arid Mesa. Opting for Stomping Ground and hoped he has no Spreading Seas.
He started with Land -> Vial and luckily missed his 2nd landdrop, which gave me time. However on turn 3 he droped the Island and Spreading Seas on my Stomping Ground. I dont drew an other land next turn and lost the game pretty fast. He had a 2nd Spreading Seas, just in case..
1-2
[/spoiler]
Round 3: BW Tokens
[spoiler]
On the draw but my hand looked solid: 2x GG, 2x Helix, 2 lands, 1 Goyf. Instant Keep.
Opponent started with Windbrisk Hights so I suspected Soul Sisters or BW Tokens. My 1st Goblin Guide showed me a Marsh Flats so it had to be Tokens. He played a Tidehollow Sculler and grabed my 2nd GG, which delayed my onslaught. Goblins like to stick with a bunch of brothers and thus I drew a 3rd one. He stalled a bit with Lingering Souls but wasnt fast enought to kill me. My burn finished him.
1-0
-3 PtE, +1 Pridemage, +2 Fallout
3 Lands, E1, GG, Helix, Rampager, keep. He actually played Bitterblossom, but hes still pretty slow.
Notion: Dont use Rampager if Tokens keeps White open, like against Fish with the Vapor Snag. Its emberassing to Bloodrush a dude to get it killed (or bounced / exiled) in responce.
In this game I hardcasted my Rampagers instead. I flood hard but Canopy is helping me to draw some more gas. Opponent got a Vault of the Archangel online which is nasty cuz it turned his Fairys into Deathtouch dudes which I dont like attacking into. This happened while he was on 9 life so I had to burn him out. He was at 1 life before he could swing for 6 lifegain and thus winning the game (2 Tokens + Persecution + Vault). It was close.
1-1
2 Lands, Ape, E1, Bolt, Rampager, Goyf. This was a keep. This game he seemed to keep a slow hand but his whole deck is slow so I dont know. My starting hand riped him apart while he tryed to stall as long as he could. Thing is he did not had the time to play his pump stuff and Token spells simultaniously. It needs to much mana.
2-1
I think this deck is too slow to beat Zoo regularly. If you give them enough time they will punish you hard for it though. But I think that will happen to any deck playing against BW Tokens.
[/spoiler]
Round 4: UWR Midrange
[spoiler]
I rolled a perfect 20, yay 3 Lands, Ape, Guide, Bolt, Path. While I attacked for 4 on Turn 2 my opponent slow rolled with a Collonade. He used Helix on my Ape but I responded with Rampager, negating his Spell and force through 8 more dmg on turn 3. I literally run him over despite him having a 2nd Helix. He also had to use Fetches to hurt himself. At the point he faced lethal he taped out for Snapcaster -> helix which I responded with Bolt and finished him.
1-0
It was hard to decide what to Board in and out. I decided to switch my Pillar with a Boros Charm. I still think having an instant Burn Spell, Protection from Removal and a Removal option in one card is better than a Sorcery burn.
3 Lands, 2 Bolts, 1 Helix, 1 Goblin. Seemed decent but I thought I want more dudes on the draw. So I mulled and my 6 were: Catacombs, 2x E1, 1x Ape, 1 Path, 1 Smiter. I kept it.
It worked out and I got two E1 at 2/2 and one Kird Ape at 2/3 on turn 2. However he Bolts one E1 and Threads of Disloyalty`s my Ape :/ Luckily I drew a Goyf which growed my E1 to 3/3 and helped me stabilizing. I hit a perfect 3rd land on my next turn for Smiter. He used Cryptic to stall but I simply rolled him over at this point. He actually drew a Hellkite but I´ve got the Path for it.
2-0
[/spoiler]
Fazit:
So 3-1 today, not bad. Merfolk was a bit unlucky game 3 but that is magic. Mainboard felt pretty solid, no changes intented. Every single card was needed and had its shining moment, yes even Goyf and Smiter. I am still not happy with the sideboard but that will take a longer time to fix.
Like Lantern says: Make sure to Feed the Animals
Good for you man! The merfolk part was rough, normally you win that match, especially after side when you have access to a ton of removal. One tip, how do you shuffle? I used to just pile shuffle, or hindu shuffle, before I knew better. Id get mana screwed/flooded randomly as the touri went on around the mid part of it. Later I'd have to really shuffle a lot to fix it... but then I started to do 3 pile shuffles 4 riffle shuffle in between rounds, then in between games Id do 1 pile, 2 riffle, and my land problems started to go away. 3-4 might be overkill, but I talked to a friend of mine who does statistics (Annnnddd he works for google after turning down a leading job at The US Gov to do war statistics... >.>) and he said that was mathematically the best way to ensure randomizing... Soo just I just take his word for it.
Question! How as not having domri? Good? I've been Happy with domri... but my body reallllyy wants more removal and boros charm.
Lantern, could you please explain how to use the sideboard, what to side in and out, when and against what. That would be really helpful. Many thanks in advance!
Both sideboards are probably great, but what 15 cards to pick...Thanks again! [/mana]
They each do different things...The problem is with this kindsa things the side depends so much on your meta, and your 60 card deck. I'm a big big propoent of building a deck as 75, not 60 with 15 extra. I view sideboarding as part of deck building. Got to make the side with the understanding of what comes out as well as in. But I'll do my best explaining what I'm testing right now (remember, I'm testing this. Ive been really open with saying the side is in flux.)
Explanations:
So when I build zoos from the ground up I usually do this:
What does this mean? Well + is my good matchups. - is my bad ones. The numbers is how many cards main deck can hate on them (not including creature attacks, which hate on every deck...) It gets a little messy towards combo because those smaller numbers hold more weight in them... but the idea is to make the numbers higher for the ones I'm bad against, and lower for the ones I'm good against naturally. This helps me see if my sideboard effects the whole meta, and I dont lose game on some other archtype just because I got narrow focused on beating 1 deck. That image is from a bit ago, but you should be able to catch my drift.
Using that method I got this as my side for right now (you'll notice any time I test a new list I brew a side with it):
1 Boros Charm
2 Stony Silence
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Molten Rain
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Combust
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Heres the ins and outs:
[spoiler=ins/outs]
things in () are deck list dependent on who I'm playing
I'm pretty psyched about testing out the "Speed" version myself when I get the chance. Gruul Zoo with a slight splash seems like a good place to start, considering it was already a player in the latest metagame.
One nitpick I will mention, after watching your videos Lantern, is the manabase. I think with so much red in the deck, we'd rather have something like 3 Stomping Ground, 2 Sacred Foundry, and 1 Temple Garden. I'm not even sure we want the plains at all, since Blood Moon rarely is relevant against us. But it's probably fine, just sucks when you randomly draw it. Still, I think we need double red much more than double green, so Sacred Foundry just seems better as our 2nd favorite shockland in this build.
I do change them just as you say, mostly depending on my side. If I have more double reds, like fallout, I do it like you said. I do the reverse if I have things like ooze and vines. Red is nice, but I find green more important to get right away because of e1, nacatl and what not.
As far as the plains goes, yeah, its a blood moon protection, and path bait. It could easily be 2 forest, or 2 mountain, but I think I've said on video it's a personal choice. I come from legacy, so nonbasic hate resistance is built into me as a deck builder and player.
i really love playing small zoo. my one gripe with it is that if zoo mirrors become common, everyone will trend bigger and bigger since big zoo beats small zoo. too bad. also lantern, why do you call kibler kiblar?
Philly accent randomly kicks in. I've been a philly kid all my life, but Ive been here in the south for 5 years, and tried to tuck it away because I was tired of gettin' called a yankee by southerners. But it randomly pops up sometimes, mostly when I'm ranting or mad... So if you here me say stupid as stoopid, thats why.
@ Blue Zoo dudes: First off... GET YO TERMS STRAIGHT KIDS, ITS CALLED AQUARIUM! haha. I wish I made that one up, but thats the old domain name for it before domain existed and before it was redubbed as counter cat/catfish. Aquarium, get it... its like a zoo for fish.
hardy har har...
Anyways. I'm not a fan. Straight delver seems better. Honestly... If I was going to make a tempo version of that, Id just kick the white out to the lightest splash possible. Rock white for things like path, helix, and bant charm... which Id run as 2 of or mostly in the side at this point (doesnt counter combo like it used to) Make it more of a rug list featuring some zoo elements. I do beleive I linked one of those like... lightyears back... Before nacatl was unbanned.
Honestly, the allure to a blue version of zoo isnt nacatl, its tarmogoyf. And at that point you could do:
4 delver
4 goyf
4 kird ape
all the burn
all the counters
I really wish I could find that list again... it was really cool, zooish, but not zoo at heart.
Zoo: Nothing. Coin flip. Fall out maybe. Charms maybe, out pillar.
We can do much better than coin flip.
I'm a big fan of having some beef for the direct mirror (small zoo on small zoo). Obviously Rampager gets hardcast and Smiter fits the bill, but there's a few good options from the bench...
Ranger of Eos to go the grindy route (fetch up double Nacatl)
Elspeth to just go pure evasion or wall up
Thrun to wall up
Various swords...I personally like Light and Shadow since anything carrying it is too big to burn out so it's effectively red protection and WaP is usually bad against empty hands.
Just bring whichever you like having around for other matchups (Elspeth is awesome against Melira pod, less so Kiki due to Resto where sword shines more. Thrun obviously against blue decks.)
I also sideboard Scavenging Ooze since he can go legitimately big and the lifegain isn't irrelevant. He's not as effective a graveyard hate for the Living End matchup, but he's fine against pod and decks trying to cheat the gy a little i.e. Dredgevine or anything Reanimator.
I tend to cut some of my 1 drops...even Nacatl walls Kird Ape so you don't want the full 6 of that effect, especially with no Pridemage in your 75 to force through combat (I'd overvalue Rampager since we only get so many answers to guys bigger than bolt and walking into the 2 for 1 isn't a good call when he causes grief as a 4/4 after they path ramp us)
EDIT: I think Charm is really bad for the mirror. It doesn't present a repeatable threat and only saves our guys from bolt. Anything we care enough to save is usually because it's bigger than bolt (limited answers) and sadly charm doesn't stop path.
I've been brewing with Lantern's list and I think that 2 rule of law is a necessary evil in the sb. It helps the living end matchup and is good against random combo decks like storm, timewalk, or ad nauseum.
What is everyone's thoughts on Pyroclasm in the board for Affinity/Melira Pod? Also, what are sideboard ideas against UWR? Their ability to trade one for one in the early game is unparalleled.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I saw this list, there is just somethings I do not like about it such as Thalia and Mindcensor. I think he is trying to mix every quality of the deck (Aggro, Consistency, and Mid-Range), and as a result, I just don't see this being successful as the ones dedicated to one of those qualities.
Thanks, I must have missed the discussion (did a search on Caleb's name in this thread and came up with nothing). I really like the deck you tested, so maybe I'll run with that instead.
As for rule of law, I like that it does not die to bolt (thalia) nor gimp your goyfs (rest in peace). The three mana cost is bad though, for sure.
I don't think domri is good in this version of zoo at all. I've played him a lot in both standard and modern and he is really bad in a blitz deck.
Path: Tron, Big Zoo, Pod, Twin
Pillar: Pod, Faeries
Boros Charm: Combo decks where Path sucks, Control decks, Attrition decks, Tron.
Combust: Twin, UWR, Merfolk, Delver. Not sure if even good against faeries.
Destructive Revelry: Affinity, Bogles, maybe Twin.
Stony Silence: Affinity, Tron.
Thalia: Everything that doesn't run a lot of creatures: Combo decks, Control decks, Tokens.
Volcanic Fallout: Affinity, Faeries, Tokens.
Thanks, I must have missed the discussion (did a search on Caleb's name in this thread and came up with nothing). I really like the deck you tested, so maybe I'll run with that instead.
As for rule of law, I like that it does not die to bolt (thalia) nor gimp your goyfs (rest in peace). The three mana cost is bad though, for sure.
I don't think domri is good in this version of zoo at all. I've played him a lot in both standard and modern and he is really bad in a blitz deck.
I'm with you on the topic of Domri Rade, I've only ever been a fan of him in Kibler's lists.
I have a few Storm players in my meta and Rest in Peace did beat them up pretty badly although I didnt like having to take out my Goyfs when I brought them in. I also quite like Rule of Law, I used it to combat those same decks when I was playing UWR control. I might want to try them in here but I don't like how it costs three, I can reliably hit 2 most games when I need it but there's no guarantee that I'll always have the three mana that I need on turn three when I have to drop this.
I think our best bet against decks like storm is to board in boros charms, take out useless cards like PTE, and race race race. It's not like these decks are very common anyway, and this deck handily beats them if they even stumble a little.
@ Handwritten Hero
I am somewhat hesitant about 4 drops right now. It would mean to increase the land count and steal important maindeck space. You trade speed with consistency which is not bad per se, but if you aim for more midrange I think Domri Kibler Zoo is the place to be. It has all the stuff you wish to play and as much 1-drops. Swords are also very slow in Small Zoo, it already sucks to get a dude killed in responce to Rampager, I dont want that to happen on the crucial turn 4. Boarding out 1-drops delutes the gameplan even more.
4 drops aren't too risky from sideboard and don't necessarily mean a requirement to increase the land count. Path to Exile happens and it cheats mana requirements a bit.
Swords are generally slow, but it's basic theory of an aggro mirror. There's actually very few games where one player pulls far ahead (usually happens when one player floods out and the other sticks nicely at 2 lands and has the right mix of removal and efficient threats)...otherwise you're banging 3/3s into 2/3s into 2/2s and 3/4 or 4/4 and bolts are spent managing the field as things become a war of attrition. What sword does is improve the quality of every single threat you put onto the field in a grindy game, so when you're both playing off the top and are on 3 or 4 mana from paths, you draw a Nacatl that's actually able to do an impression of being a 5/5 for 3 mana, whereas your opponent just draws a 3/3 for 1 and leaves 2 mana unused.
I dont know about the sideboard Sasky.
Thing is I want graveyardhate. Rest in Peace might not be the best choice, maybe Tormods Crypt is better. However it can be played around by Living End. Thats what I dont like about it. Same thing with Relic. Rest in Peace clears the grave the moment it hits and doesnt need further investment. Yes it gimps my Goofys but they will go out for Rip and Thalia I think. Even if I keep em they will be 2/3 if they remove RIP with Beast Within and surely 3/4 after the first creature hits the bin. I have to stick some sort of hate in my board as LE is a rather big player in my meta. The deck is simply to cheap :/ Also some Loam/Dredgevine decks seem to rise up.
Stony Silence against Ancient Grudge seems to be a matter of taste. You have to get that Silence early on to be affective where as Grudge can be riped from the top of your deck even on turn 3 or 4 and be relevant. Silence doesnt kill Inkmoth / Blinkmoth / Wurmcoil but might shut off Affinity + Tron for sure. Both are equaly good against Pod, where as Grudge can kill random Spellskites and will not die to their Pridemage or Harmonic Sliver. Personally I dont care about Tron right now, I´ve played against U and RG and both seem to be too slow.
As we will only dedicate 2 slots for this role I will stay with Ancient Grudge right now. With only 2 copys, chances are low to see S.Silence in your starting 7 and Grudge is a better Topdeck.
Destructive Revelry against Qasali Pridemage is a decision between reactive and proactive. I need more testing to see which one is better.
My 2 Cages were mainly against Pod because that matchup is very bad. Those damn Kitchen Finks ruin my day. Kitchen Finks with Restoration Angel are even worse. Then you add their Voice of Resurgance and puke. Cages stop their Persist and also Cord + Pod in one. It doesnt help against Voice like Pillar and Path does though. Maybe I have to except that this Matchup is bad bad bad. How would you board against Pod Sasky? Its hard to find room, I think Helix seems to be the first card to go out.
We both agree on Thalia, Boros Charm and Fallout, so they seem to be set
Very well thought-out response. You certainly have played this more than me (been busy playing faeries) so I will defer to your opinion. The only thing I don't really agree with is RIP, but I don't have much LE in my meta. I wouldn't want RIP against snapcaster decks either as I want goyfs in those matchups. I agree with all your other points.
Against pod using the sb i posted I would board out goblin guides and experiment ones for pillar, path, destructive revelry, combust, and volcanic fallout. Guides are lame in that matchup, and ex-ones die to fallout.
Using your sb i would board out the guides and 2 ex-ones and board in fallout, cage, and ancient grudge.
It's ok to be the control deck in this matchup. We're not going to win by rushing them with small dudes, so it helps to have lots of removal.
Other ideas: I think colossal might helps immensely in the pod matchup as well, though I am not sure if i ever want to see that card in matchups that pack removal, which is a lot of decks. Anger of the gods absolutely destroys pod decks, but it kills our stuff as well. Torpor orb is really good as well.
If I don't want to run RIP, I would run this sideboard:
How does everyone feel about jotun grunt being a budget replacement to goyf?
I dislike it because of the upkeep cost. You're deck should try to work wth only the use of 3-4 lands... So if you are paying half to 2/3's your land just to keep the 4/4, you are losing potential burn/creature drops. The best budget replacment for Goyf is Scavenging and that isn't that great. Goyf is Goyf, there really is NO replacement for it...
How does everyone feel about jotun grunt being a budget replacement to goyf?
I dislike it because of the upkeep cost. You're deck should try to work wth only the use of 3-4 lands... So if you are paying half to 2/3's your land just to keep the 4/4, you are losing potential burn/creature drops. The best budget replacment for Goyf is Scavenging and that isn't that great. Goyf is Goyf, there really is NO replacement for it...
The upkeep cost on Jotun Grunt costs no mana, it "costs" returning cards from graveyards to the bottom of the owners library (though it is cumulative).
On one hand, Jotun Grunt antagonizes decks that like it when there's stuff in the Graveyard.
On the other, cumulative upkeep will inevitably spiral out of your means to pay and so he's ultimately only reliable for a punch or two before bugging out.
I like to think of Figure of Destiny as being better at the job of "Goyf for the Goyfless."
Sure, he saps away your mana.
Okay, he dies to a lot of things along the way.
But he curves real nicelike.
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I see you also have this as an option:
Sideboard:
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
3 Boros Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Volcanic Fallout
3 Molten Rain
Both sideboards are probably great, but what 15 cards to pick...Thanks again!
One nitpick I will mention, after watching your videos Lantern, is the manabase. I think with so much red in the deck, we'd rather have something like 3 Stomping Ground, 2 Sacred Foundry, and 1 Temple Garden. I'm not even sure we want the plains at all, since Blood Moon rarely is relevant against us. But it's probably fine, just sucks when you randomly draw it. Still, I think we need double red much more than double green, so Sacred Foundry just seems better as our 2nd favorite shockland in this build.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Good for you man! The merfolk part was rough, normally you win that match, especially after side when you have access to a ton of removal. One tip, how do you shuffle? I used to just pile shuffle, or hindu shuffle, before I knew better. Id get mana screwed/flooded randomly as the touri went on around the mid part of it. Later I'd have to really shuffle a lot to fix it... but then I started to do 3 pile shuffles 4 riffle shuffle in between rounds, then in between games Id do 1 pile, 2 riffle, and my land problems started to go away. 3-4 might be overkill, but I talked to a friend of mine who does statistics (Annnnddd he works for google after turning down a leading job at The US Gov to do war statistics... >.>) and he said that was mathematically the best way to ensure randomizing... Soo just I just take his word for it.
Question! How as not having domri? Good? I've been Happy with domri... but my body reallllyy wants more removal and boros charm.
They each do different things...The problem is with this kindsa things the side depends so much on your meta, and your 60 card deck. I'm a big big propoent of building a deck as 75, not 60 with 15 extra. I view sideboarding as part of deck building. Got to make the side with the understanding of what comes out as well as in. But I'll do my best explaining what I'm testing right now (remember, I'm testing this. Ive been really open with saying the side is in flux.)
Main:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Loam Lion
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Boros Charm
Explanations:
So when I build zoos from the ground up I usually do this:
What does this mean? Well + is my good matchups. - is my bad ones. The numbers is how many cards main deck can hate on them (not including creature attacks, which hate on every deck...) It gets a little messy towards combo because those smaller numbers hold more weight in them... but the idea is to make the numbers higher for the ones I'm bad against, and lower for the ones I'm good against naturally. This helps me see if my sideboard effects the whole meta, and I dont lose game on some other archtype just because I got narrow focused on beating 1 deck. That image is from a bit ago, but you should be able to catch my drift.
Using that method I got this as my side for right now (you'll notice any time I test a new list I brew a side with it):
1 Boros Charm
2 Stony Silence
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Molten Rain
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Combust
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Heres the ins and outs:
[spoiler=ins/outs]
things in () are deck list dependent on who I'm playing
Pod: In- 2 cage, 2 silence, (1 fallout) out-2 charms, 3 smiter
Infect: In- fallout, thaila, reverlry. Out- 3 ghorclan, 2 charm
Affinity: In- Fallout, revelry, silance, Out- 2 charm, 2 ghor
Twin: In- revelry, combust, thalia out- 2 charm, 4 ghor
Soul Sisters: In- fallout Out- 1 charm
Scapeshift: in- 2 molten rain 2 boros charm. Out- 3 path, 1 pillar
Zoo: Nothing. Coin flip. Fall out maybe. Charms maybe, out pillar
Fae: In: fallout, combust, (charms) out: 2 Pillar 1 e1 (2 more for charm)
Tokens: in- 2 revelry, 1 fallout, 2 thalia out- 2 charms 3 smiter.
Living End: In- 1 crypt, 1 charm, 2 thalia out- 4 smiter
GB/X: in molten rain, charm out- 2 pillar, 1 helix
Delver: in- fallout, thalia, combust Out-2 charm, 3 e1
Merfolk: in-fallout, combust out: 2 charm, 1 e1
WUr control: in 2 thalia, 1 charm (2 molten rain) out- pillar, helix (mo' helix)
Hatebears/D&T: in- molten rain, out- charms
Green Shrine: in-fallout, molten rain, out- charm, smiter
Storm: in- 2 revelry, thalia, charm out- 2 pillar, 3 path
vengevine: in- crypt, cage, out- charms, 1 smiter
gifts: in- crypt, cage, charm, thalia out- 3 helix, 2 pillar, 1 bolt
Ad Nauseam: in- 2 thalia, 2 destructive revelry, 2 molten rain, 2 stony, out- 2 pillar, 3 helix, 3 path.
Tron: in- charms, molten rain, (stoney/revelry on the play) out- 2 pillar, 3 helix, (4 bolt)
I do change them just as you say, mostly depending on my side. If I have more double reds, like fallout, I do it like you said. I do the reverse if I have things like ooze and vines. Red is nice, but I find green more important to get right away because of e1, nacatl and what not.
As far as the plains goes, yeah, its a blood moon protection, and path bait. It could easily be 2 forest, or 2 mountain, but I think I've said on video it's a personal choice. I come from legacy, so nonbasic hate resistance is built into me as a deck builder and player.
Philly accent randomly kicks in. I've been a philly kid all my life, but Ive been here in the south for 5 years, and tried to tuck it away because I was tired of gettin' called a yankee by southerners. But it randomly pops up sometimes, mostly when I'm ranting or mad... So if you here me say stupid as stoopid, thats why.
@ Blue Zoo dudes: First off... GET YO TERMS STRAIGHT KIDS, ITS CALLED AQUARIUM! haha. I wish I made that one up, but thats the old domain name for it before domain existed and before it was redubbed as counter cat/catfish. Aquarium, get it... its like a zoo for fish.
hardy har har...
Anyways. I'm not a fan. Straight delver seems better. Honestly... If I was going to make a tempo version of that, Id just kick the white out to the lightest splash possible. Rock white for things like path, helix, and bant charm... which Id run as 2 of or mostly in the side at this point (doesnt counter combo like it used to) Make it more of a rug list featuring some zoo elements. I do beleive I linked one of those like... lightyears back... Before nacatl was unbanned.
Honestly, the allure to a blue version of zoo isnt nacatl, its tarmogoyf. And at that point you could do:
4 delver
4 goyf
4 kird ape
all the burn
all the counters
I really wish I could find that list again... it was really cool, zooish, but not zoo at heart.
We can do much better than coin flip.
I'm a big fan of having some beef for the direct mirror (small zoo on small zoo). Obviously Rampager gets hardcast and Smiter fits the bill, but there's a few good options from the bench...
Ranger of Eos to go the grindy route (fetch up double Nacatl)
Elspeth to just go pure evasion or wall up
Thrun to wall up
Various swords...I personally like Light and Shadow since anything carrying it is too big to burn out so it's effectively red protection and WaP is usually bad against empty hands.
Just bring whichever you like having around for other matchups (Elspeth is awesome against Melira pod, less so Kiki due to Resto where sword shines more. Thrun obviously against blue decks.)
I also sideboard Scavenging Ooze since he can go legitimately big and the lifegain isn't irrelevant. He's not as effective a graveyard hate for the Living End matchup, but he's fine against pod and decks trying to cheat the gy a little i.e. Dredgevine or anything Reanimator.
I tend to cut some of my 1 drops...even Nacatl walls Kird Ape so you don't want the full 6 of that effect, especially with no Pridemage in your 75 to force through combat (I'd overvalue Rampager since we only get so many answers to guys bigger than bolt and walking into the 2 for 1 isn't a good call when he causes grief as a 4/4 after they path ramp us)
EDIT: I think Charm is really bad for the mirror. It doesn't present a repeatable threat and only saves our guys from bolt. Anything we care enough to save is usually because it's bigger than bolt (limited answers) and sadly charm doesn't stop path.
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
Spells:12
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Combust
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I saw this list, there is just somethings I do not like about it such as Thalia and Mindcensor. I think he is trying to mix every quality of the deck (Aggro, Consistency, and Mid-Range), and as a result, I just don't see this being successful as the ones dedicated to one of those qualities.
As for rule of law, I like that it does not die to bolt (thalia) nor gimp your goyfs (rest in peace). The three mana cost is bad though, for sure.
I don't think domri is good in this version of zoo at all. I've played him a lot in both standard and modern and he is really bad in a blitz deck.
EDIT: Slight tweaking on your sb:
4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
Spells:12
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Pillar of Flame
4 Lightning Helix
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Path to Exile
1 Pillar of Flame
3 Boros Charm
2 Combust
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Volcanic Fallout
Path: Tron, Big Zoo, Pod, Twin
Pillar: Pod, Faeries
Boros Charm: Combo decks where Path sucks, Control decks, Attrition decks, Tron.
Combust: Twin, UWR, Merfolk, Delver. Not sure if even good against faeries.
Destructive Revelry: Affinity, Bogles, maybe Twin.
Stony Silence: Affinity, Tron.
Thalia: Everything that doesn't run a lot of creatures: Combo decks, Control decks, Tokens.
Volcanic Fallout: Affinity, Faeries, Tokens.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I'm with you on the topic of Domri Rade, I've only ever been a fan of him in Kibler's lists.
I have a few Storm players in my meta and Rest in Peace did beat them up pretty badly although I didnt like having to take out my Goyfs when I brought them in. I also quite like Rule of Law, I used it to combat those same decks when I was playing UWR control. I might want to try them in here but I don't like how it costs three, I can reliably hit 2 most games when I need it but there's no guarantee that I'll always have the three mana that I need on turn three when I have to drop this.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
4 drops aren't too risky from sideboard and don't necessarily mean a requirement to increase the land count. Path to Exile happens and it cheats mana requirements a bit.
Swords are generally slow, but it's basic theory of an aggro mirror. There's actually very few games where one player pulls far ahead (usually happens when one player floods out and the other sticks nicely at 2 lands and has the right mix of removal and efficient threats)...otherwise you're banging 3/3s into 2/3s into 2/2s and 3/4 or 4/4 and bolts are spent managing the field as things become a war of attrition. What sword does is improve the quality of every single threat you put onto the field in a grindy game, so when you're both playing off the top and are on 3 or 4 mana from paths, you draw a Nacatl that's actually able to do an impression of being a 5/5 for 3 mana, whereas your opponent just draws a 3/3 for 1 and leaves 2 mana unused.
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
Very well thought-out response. You certainly have played this more than me (been busy playing faeries) so I will defer to your opinion. The only thing I don't really agree with is RIP, but I don't have much LE in my meta. I wouldn't want RIP against snapcaster decks either as I want goyfs in those matchups. I agree with all your other points.
Against pod using the sb i posted I would board out goblin guides and experiment ones for pillar, path, destructive revelry, combust, and volcanic fallout. Guides are lame in that matchup, and ex-ones die to fallout.
Using your sb i would board out the guides and 2 ex-ones and board in fallout, cage, and ancient grudge.
It's ok to be the control deck in this matchup. We're not going to win by rushing them with small dudes, so it helps to have lots of removal.
Other ideas: I think colossal might helps immensely in the pod matchup as well, though I am not sure if i ever want to see that card in matchups that pack removal, which is a lot of decks. Anger of the gods absolutely destroys pod decks, but it kills our stuff as well. Torpor orb is really good as well.
If I don't want to run RIP, I would run this sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Path to Exile
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Boros Charm
2 Combust
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Torpor Orb
2 Volcanic Fallout
Would be nice if i had one more thalia in the sb though. She's just stellar against so many weird matchups.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I dislike it because of the upkeep cost. You're deck should try to work wth only the use of 3-4 lands... So if you are paying half to 2/3's your land just to keep the 4/4, you are losing potential burn/creature drops. The best budget replacment for Goyf is Scavenging and that isn't that great. Goyf is Goyf, there really is NO replacement for it...
The upkeep cost on Jotun Grunt costs no mana, it "costs" returning cards from graveyards to the bottom of the owners library (though it is cumulative).
U FaerieNinjaStandstill U
B Swag Flu B
In Development
BG Nightmare Survival GB
B The Gate B
BRG Jund GRB
On the other, cumulative upkeep will inevitably spiral out of your means to pay and so he's ultimately only reliable for a punch or two before bugging out.
I like to think of Figure of Destiny as being better at the job of "Goyf for the Goyfless."
Sure, he saps away your mana.
Okay, he dies to a lot of things along the way.
But he curves real nicelike.