SO we have something tangible to work with now. The nice part of Blightning is that it kills PW's. Since this is by far the best finish for a Rack deck in Modern it should be looked into.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Yes, I'll throw it together and record a video soon. On a related note, I've been talking to Pete about the list a bit. He's going to register on MTGS and join the discussion soon, but for now he said this: "I went 6-2 on the day, and Nyxathid straight-up won me at least 5 rounds. It's an all-purpose beater when they've got no hand." He's going to have an article about it soon also.
Edit: not sure if SCG updated or if I just missed it, but there are 4 Lilys in the deck, which I've added to the primer list.
Sorry but that is my honest opinion. Is he using a hand control strategy? Yes. Is he using cards that are nonbo with eachother? Yes. Will his impressive results make people think bad builds are viable? Yuppers. Its already begun.
Having a Rack as a win condition but not using Shrieking Affliction? No Raven's Crime??? No engines other than Liliana? Nyxthalid get chump blocked or removed all day long. Nyx has been brought up at least a dozen times, and summarily rejected. He has 7 dedicated win cards only (4 rack, 3Nyx). The rest of the damage has to come from 4 lightning bolts (a solid card) and 4 Blightnings (garbage). What happens when he runs out of gas, with no way to get value from his cards other than topdecking??
Whatever. I already know most of the people here are going to jump all over my ***** because I'm being "negative". The only thing this proves is how weak the meta is to hand control right now. There is still no way I am going to take a bite of that *****-sandwich and call it delicious. Eat up though boys.
EDIT: Sorry he has a whole EIGHT dedicated win cards. I missed the singleton Lilianas Caress, yet another card brought up a million times here already and rejected every time.
I don't think it's genius, just interesting. Again, some of the choices are questionable and I don't think it's better than the stock list. Even if it's trash, it's the best finish for 8Rack to date, and the only R/B list that has placed, so it should be tested, if only to be rejected as inconsistent.
Sorry but that is my honest opinion. Is he using a hand control strategy? Yes. Is he using cards that are nonbo with eachother? Yes. Will his impressive results make people think bad builds are viable? Yuppers. Its already begun.
Having a Rack as a win condition but not using Shrieking Affliction? No Raven's Crime??? No engines other than Liliana? Nyxthalid get chump blocked or removed all day long. Nyx has been brought up at least a dozen times, and summarily rejected. He has 7 dedicated win cards only (4 rack, 3Nyx). The rest of the damage has to come from 4 lightning bolts (a solid card) and 4 Blightnings (garbage). What happens when he runs out of gas, with no way to get value from his cards other than topdecking??
Whatever. I already know most of the people here are going to jump all over my ***** because I'm being "negative". The only thing this proves is how weak the meta is to hand control right now. There is still no way I am going to take a bite of that *****-sandwich and call it delicious. Eat up though boys.
EDIT: Sorry he has a whole EIGHT dedicated win cards. I missed the singleton Lilianas Caress, yet another card brought up a million times here already and rejected every time.
What happens when he runs out of gas, with no way to get value from his cards other than topdecking?
^^Except hes only got half the racks and no Raven Crime engine to fuel them. Also Lili's caress does nothing in top deck mode. Also Nyxthalid dies to removal when rat dodges it.
Sorry but that is my honest opinion. Is he using a hand control strategy? Yes. Is he using cards that are nonbo with eachother? Yes. Will his impressive results make people think bad builds are viable? Yuppers. Its already begun.
Having a Rack as a win condition but not using Shrieking Affliction? No Raven's Crime??? No engines other than Liliana? Nyxthalid get chump blocked or removed all day long. Nyx has been brought up at least a dozen times, and summarily rejected. He has 7 dedicated win cards only (4 rack, 3Nyx). The rest of the damage has to come from 4 lightning bolts (a solid card) and 4 Blightnings (garbage). What happens when he runs out of gas, with no way to get value from his cards other than topdecking??
Whatever. I already know most of the people here are going to jump all over my ***** because I'm being "negative". The only thing this proves is how weak the meta is to hand control right now. There is still no way I am going to take a bite of that *****-sandwich and call it delicious. Eat up though boys.
EDIT: Sorry he has a whole EIGHT dedicated win cards. I missed the singleton Lilianas Caress, yet another card brought up a million times here already and rejected every time.
Except the records show pretty well :
MemoryLapse calls Dark Confidant crap unplayable junk in 8rack... 1 (or was it 2?) 8rack list makes GP day 2. It plays Bob as a 4-of.
MemoryLapse calls all splashes, and very specific cards like Liliana's Caress and Blightning crap... top 16's a Modern IQ.
MemoryLapse based 8rack decks sometimes struggle to even get 4-0 in daily events (average at best 3-1) which is not much functionally different than playing the first 4 rounds of a GP/IQ/Open where you run into random decks, budget decks, and random players.
It really doesn't seem like the mono-black no Bob track record is the best way to go... all the evidence points in fact the opposite direction. Go ahead and just trash on everyone elses lists that have actually performed, and while you're at it provide no solid evidence for said justification. (For the record "dies to removal" isnt justification... otherwise no one would play creatures outside of hexproof / shroud. Nor does "topdeck mode does nothing" count because any non-blue deck is in that SAME boat [generally])
I guess with Delver getting the hit and Pod out of the way, 8Rack is well positioned again.
Lol hell no I'm not running it. At best all I did was try and keep people from listening to the awfuls here (see this page for example). 8Rack is in a nice spot though at least.
@hardkroll- Bad, inefficient lists win all the time, in pretty much every tournament in fact you can find lots of day 2 examples of this. But please, do NOT let me stop you from playing the hell out of that list. You go ahead and do it, I honestly want you and people like you to go that route or the scepter of fugue/bob route. Do it and post your results. I ******* dare you to test something and post a video about it instead of just being a troll.
I guess with Delver getting the hit and Pod out of the way, 8Rack is well positioned again.
Lol hell no I'm not running it. At best all I did was try and keep people from listening to the awfuls here (see this page for example). 8Rack is in a nice spot though at least.
@hardkroll- Bad, inefficient lists win all the time, in pretty much every tournament in fact you can find lots of day 2 examples of this. But please, do NOT let me stop you from playing the hell out of that list. You go ahead and do it, I honestly want you and people like you to go that route or the scepter of fugue/bob route. Do it and post your results. I ******* dare you to test something and post a video about it instead of just being a troll.
And when are you going to prove your results outside of a 3-1 Daily Event?
I guess with Delver getting the hit and Pod out of the way, 8Rack is well positioned again.
Lol hell no I'm not running it. At best all I did was try and keep people from listening to the awfuls here (see this page for example). 8Rack is in a nice spot though at least.
@hardkroll- Bad, inefficient lists win all the time, in pretty much every tournament in fact you can find lots of day 2 examples of this. But please, do NOT let me stop you from playing the hell out of that list. You go ahead and do it, I honestly want you and people like you to go that route or the scepter of fugue/bob route. Do it and post your results. I ******* dare you to test something and post a video about it instead of just being a troll.
And when are you going to prove your results outside of a 3-1 Daily Event?
When you prove something that equals or exceeds said daily with your own crap / crap you copy from other crappy lists. GO on then. Put up or shut up.
If neither of you can criticize the other without getting angry or personal, then don't criticize at all. It's not constructive; you're not changing each other's minds, and you're hurting the thread. I don't even feel like posting here right now, so I imagine it's the same for many others.
GAME 1 SUMMARY
Just to recap Game 1, 8Rack had an overall win rate of 60% (24/40). The BGx Midrange matchup has historically not been the greatest matchup for 8Rack, but this is not as true of Junk as it was of old Jund or BG Rock. In part, this is because BGx decks are different. With DRS banned and Bob fallen out of favor due to Burn's rise, some of the older problems with this matchup are no longer an issue. Add to that a slower play style (Junk doesn't have the same clock as Jund with its Bolts) and we basically get an extra turn to work our magic. That's often all we need to get our lock active, or to just burn out the opponent with redundant Rack effects. Although beatdown is always a danger, this is often offset by the high number of dead cards that Junk has in game 1 (5-6 creature removal spells) and the lower number of viable threats.
GAMES 2/3 SIDEBOARDING
As the 8Rack player, we obviously wanted to increase our removal count. The biggest issue in the game 1 losses was not getting cards out of Junk's hand, but losing to creatures that got in play and went unchecked for too many turns. Unfortunately, Lingering Souls was the biggest offender in this department, and our sideboard didn't start out with Bile Blight for the first dozen games. So we boarded in what removal we had and hoped that would be enough. We cut Pendant because it was so average in game 1.
-2 Pendant
-1 Raven's Crime
+2 Victim of Night
+1 Murderous Cut
For Junk, we decided that the optimal board strategy is to increase the threat count. The issue with Junk in game 1 was that once their hand got wrecked they couldn't reliably get another threat on the board. This led to drawn-out games that they would inevitably lose to Racks. So if they could increase the threat count, they could weaken our 1 for 1 discard/removal spells and improve their mid and late-game topdecks. This is effectively the same strategy used by BGx pros like Reid Duke and Willy Edel in the mirror match. As an added bonus, the Fulminator Mages were both win conditions and a great way of ripping apart the 8Rack manabase.
-2 Pact
-2 Dismember
-1 Path
+1 Batterskull
+1 Thrun
+3 Fulminator Mage.
GAMES 2/3 SUMMARY STATS
As expected, the game 2 matchup went worse than the game 1 matchup. But it wasn't a total disaster when all the tests were tallied and done with, which gives hope to the 8Rack player. Indeed, the overall win rate was pretty impressive, even if our earlier tests did not have a great start (my win rate at first was around 40% for the first 15 or so games).
Overall win rate: 50% (20/40) Wins on the play: 45% (9/20) Wins on the draw: 55% (11/20) Mulligans: 5 total (5 to 6 cards, 1 to 5 cards) Average 8Rack win turn: 11 Average Junk win turn: 9.5
Very similar stats to those we saw in game 1. I don't think there's any serious difference to being on the play or the draw in game 2. Being on the play gets things going a turn earlier, which is great in some hands, especially if you can rip a TS/IoK from their hand to protect something better in yours. But sometimes it's better to be on the draw, because you can make better decisions with that 1 extra card in your hand. The other thing to note about these games is that they were a turn slower than the game 1 games. This makes total sense, given that 8Rack added in 3 more removal spells, any of which can add a turn to the game.
Here's the win and loss breakdown for 8Rack vs. Junk in game 2:
Win with Rats: 6 Win with Rack burn: 6 Win with Lockdown (Bridge/Crime/Rack/Lilly): 7 Win with Muta beats: 1
Loss to general beatdown: 8 Loss to Lingering Souls: 6 Loss to slow-roll (waiting for Decay topdeck) 6 Losses attributable to Fulminator Mage: 5
There was a pretty even split between the causes for my wins and the causes for my losses. Rat was both better because Junk boarded out a lot of removal but worse because they had more threats to prevent Rat from getting online and becoming relevant. Rack Burn was also a little less common because I had to spend early mana to keep back creatures instead of taking apart their hand; this wasn't a misplay so much as it was a reprioritization based on their new threats. As for losses, Spirit tokens remained a big problem because they dodge 1 for 1 spot removal and because the 1 for 1 spot removal takes longer to get out of your hand than other cards because it is more expensive. Finally, Fulminator Mage was a real problem. I keep any hand with 2 lands in it, expecting to draw a third land by turn 3 and then maybe a 4th by turn 5. Fulminator, especially on the play, can keep you off 3 mana for 2+ turns easily, or blow up an Urborg to ensure you don't have BB when it's needed.
GAMES 2/3 OVERALL IMPRESSIONS
Here were my general takeaways from games 2 and 3.
1. Lack of topdeck power
In my earlier post, I described this as lack of filtering or card draw, but that's not really the core issue here. The real issue is the lack of topdeck power in the mid and late game. This was eminently apparent when going against post-sideboard Junk which had boarded out its removal and boarded in a bunch of threats. While I was drawing a bunch of random discard spells, unable to find a clock or a Bridge, Junk was drawing threats. This is also an issue I see in other tournament reports, so I think it's really a deck-wide challenge. The more games you play, the more obvious it becomes. In part, this is sort of the lay of the land when playing a discard-based deck. Your discard topdecks are going to get weaker as the game progresses, especially if you don't need the discard but do need something that has more presence. But just because it's an issue with our strategy overall that does not mean we should just ignore it. I do think there are ways to fix it and we need to fix it if we want this deck to succeed in larger venues.
2. 8Rack is faster than people think
A lot of people both here and elsewhere see "hand control" and read it as "hand CONTROL", i.e. a slow-rolling deck that controls the hand and the game. Although 8Rack certainly can do this, 8Rack can also have some pretty speed openings and closings of a game on the back of that countermagic. This takes two forms. The first is ripping a removal spell and a threat with discard and then dropping Pack Rat. It can be really hard for fair decks to come back from that, especially if those fair decks are designed to grind. The second is in landing 2+ racks early and then just suicidally destroying their hand and letting the Racks work. 2+ Racks, even just 2 racks period, deal a ton of damage. That part is obvious, but this next part might not be. Sometimes, our inclination is to get up Racks, hold down the fort with a Bridge, and try to rip them apart behind our shield. But although Bridge might keep us alive, casting Bridge can also be like giving our opponent an extra turn of life, or an extra turn to find an answer. Sometimes, we need to race, not turtle. I think people intuitively know this from playing the deck, but I do not think many lists are designed to take advantage of that speed. There are lots of times where we want to improve our deck's chances of finding Bridge, when maybe another option is to improve our chance of dealing damage. The recent BR list from SCG is definitely designed to do things like that, and although it is not without flaws, that general approach is an interesting one.
3. 8Rack is decent against Junk!
All in all, I think this version of the deck that I tested was pretty decent against Junk. Assuming you win in game 1, which you should because you are favored, you should then be able to win either game 2 or game 3 to close out the match. That's good news when we see metagames that have a fair amount of Junk and should give hope to pilots of this deck. Although we still have to figure out the aggro matchup, I am heartened that we seem to have a positive matchup against the (arguably) best deck in the format.
I dunno, i was getting kind of bored with everyone working together trying to make this form of deck viable again. My list is better than your list is way more constructive.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The answer is purple because ice cream has no bones.
When you prove something that equals or exceeds said daily with your own crap / crap you copy from other crappy lists. GO on then. Put up or shut up.
Amazing how these lists that out perform your own are "crap, trash and *****"... and you put the burden of proof BACK on them and never on yourself and your lists to outperform these lists. It has nothing to do with me or any lists I would create... you are bashing the ONLY high level performing lists that have been seen out in paper.
You seem to put it out a lot that no list that isnt MemoryLapse's is good, regardless of its performance anywhere because its more important that you are right than it is to actually make 8rack a viable deck to play in modern.
Someone - "Hey this card show potential"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "This list Day 2d a GP"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "This list top 16"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "I tested this card, here are the results, specifics, and breakdown"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "Thought about this splash, its been working well"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "Why is this crap?"
Memory - "Because its clearly crap"
If everything is crap and your list is perfect what are you doing here Memory? Go crush some GPs, Opens, and IQs... or else quit trying to crash on everyone for suggesting anything but "MemoryLapse lists".
Last friendly warning to stop the personal attacks. Just keep things on the deck and its development, not on other users. Any other posts that go after specific people or respond to people going after other people are getting infracted.
I 4-0'd today, and recorded live commentary (see below). Standings screenshot; in-game screenshot. Beat Burn, Junk twice, and RUG Twin. The Twin match is very intense; I strongly recommend watching that one especially. The list is tweaked from last time, with some help from ktkenshinx. As I say in the video, the sideboard is going to be tweaked some more, but it is closer to where I think we should be right now. Also, it should please those who've been wanting a more traditional sideboard.
Edit: On a side note, I really enjoyed your video with commentary Destroyer. Keep them coming!
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Edit: not sure if SCG updated or if I just missed it, but there are 4 Lilys in the deck, which I've added to the primer list.
Awful list does well, heralded as genius!
Sorry but that is my honest opinion. Is he using a hand control strategy? Yes. Is he using cards that are nonbo with eachother? Yes. Will his impressive results make people think bad builds are viable? Yuppers. Its already begun.
Having a Rack as a win condition but not using Shrieking Affliction? No Raven's Crime??? No engines other than Liliana? Nyxthalid get chump blocked or removed all day long. Nyx has been brought up at least a dozen times, and summarily rejected. He has 7 dedicated win cards only (4 rack, 3Nyx). The rest of the damage has to come from 4 lightning bolts (a solid card) and 4 Blightnings (garbage). What happens when he runs out of gas, with no way to get value from his cards other than topdecking??
Whatever. I already know most of the people here are going to jump all over my ***** because I'm being "negative". The only thing this proves is how weak the meta is to hand control right now. There is still no way I am going to take a bite of that *****-sandwich and call it delicious. Eat up though boys.
EDIT: Sorry he has a whole EIGHT dedicated win cards. I missed the singleton Lilianas Caress, yet another card brought up a million times here already and rejected every time.
What happens when he runs out of gas, with no way to get value from his cards other than topdecking?
-Get beat by Nyxathid
-Rack
-Burned
-Lily
-Lily Caress
-Lavaclaw Reaches
Compare this to 8Rack
-Get Racked (Same)
-Pat Rat (Which is great)
-Lily (Same)
-Mutavault (Lavaclaw Reaches)
I guess with Delver getting the hit and Pod out of the way, 8Rack is well positioned again.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Except the records show pretty well :
MemoryLapse calls Dark Confidant crap unplayable junk in 8rack... 1 (or was it 2?) 8rack list makes GP day 2. It plays Bob as a 4-of.
MemoryLapse calls all splashes, and very specific cards like Liliana's Caress and Blightning crap... top 16's a Modern IQ.
MemoryLapse based 8rack decks sometimes struggle to even get 4-0 in daily events (average at best 3-1) which is not much functionally different than playing the first 4 rounds of a GP/IQ/Open where you run into random decks, budget decks, and random players.
It really doesn't seem like the mono-black no Bob track record is the best way to go... all the evidence points in fact the opposite direction. Go ahead and just trash on everyone elses lists that have actually performed, and while you're at it provide no solid evidence for said justification. (For the record "dies to removal" isnt justification... otherwise no one would play creatures outside of hexproof / shroud. Nor does "topdeck mode does nothing" count because any non-blue deck is in that SAME boat [generally])
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Lol hell no I'm not running it. At best all I did was try and keep people from listening to the awfuls here (see this page for example). 8Rack is in a nice spot though at least.
@hardkroll- Bad, inefficient lists win all the time, in pretty much every tournament in fact you can find lots of day 2 examples of this. But please, do NOT let me stop you from playing the hell out of that list. You go ahead and do it, I honestly want you and people like you to go that route or the scepter of fugue/bob route. Do it and post your results. I ******* dare you to test something and post a video about it instead of just being a troll.
And when are you going to prove your results outside of a 3-1 Daily Event?
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
When you prove something that equals or exceeds said daily with your own crap / crap you copy from other crappy lists. GO on then. Put up or shut up.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive/574097-8rack?comment=1208
GAME 1 SUMMARY
Just to recap Game 1, 8Rack had an overall win rate of 60% (24/40). The BGx Midrange matchup has historically not been the greatest matchup for 8Rack, but this is not as true of Junk as it was of old Jund or BG Rock. In part, this is because BGx decks are different. With DRS banned and Bob fallen out of favor due to Burn's rise, some of the older problems with this matchup are no longer an issue. Add to that a slower play style (Junk doesn't have the same clock as Jund with its Bolts) and we basically get an extra turn to work our magic. That's often all we need to get our lock active, or to just burn out the opponent with redundant Rack effects. Although beatdown is always a danger, this is often offset by the high number of dead cards that Junk has in game 1 (5-6 creature removal spells) and the lower number of viable threats.
GAMES 2/3 SIDEBOARDING
As the 8Rack player, we obviously wanted to increase our removal count. The biggest issue in the game 1 losses was not getting cards out of Junk's hand, but losing to creatures that got in play and went unchecked for too many turns. Unfortunately, Lingering Souls was the biggest offender in this department, and our sideboard didn't start out with Bile Blight for the first dozen games. So we boarded in what removal we had and hoped that would be enough. We cut Pendant because it was so average in game 1.
-2 Pendant
-1 Raven's Crime
+2 Victim of Night
+1 Murderous Cut
For Junk, we decided that the optimal board strategy is to increase the threat count. The issue with Junk in game 1 was that once their hand got wrecked they couldn't reliably get another threat on the board. This led to drawn-out games that they would inevitably lose to Racks. So if they could increase the threat count, they could weaken our 1 for 1 discard/removal spells and improve their mid and late-game topdecks. This is effectively the same strategy used by BGx pros like Reid Duke and Willy Edel in the mirror match. As an added bonus, the Fulminator Mages were both win conditions and a great way of ripping apart the 8Rack manabase.
-2 Pact
-2 Dismember
-1 Path
+1 Batterskull
+1 Thrun
+3 Fulminator Mage.
GAMES 2/3 SUMMARY STATS
As expected, the game 2 matchup went worse than the game 1 matchup. But it wasn't a total disaster when all the tests were tallied and done with, which gives hope to the 8Rack player. Indeed, the overall win rate was pretty impressive, even if our earlier tests did not have a great start (my win rate at first was around 40% for the first 15 or so games).
Overall win rate: 50% (20/40)
Wins on the play: 45% (9/20)
Wins on the draw: 55% (11/20)
Mulligans: 5 total (5 to 6 cards, 1 to 5 cards)
Average 8Rack win turn: 11
Average Junk win turn: 9.5
Very similar stats to those we saw in game 1. I don't think there's any serious difference to being on the play or the draw in game 2. Being on the play gets things going a turn earlier, which is great in some hands, especially if you can rip a TS/IoK from their hand to protect something better in yours. But sometimes it's better to be on the draw, because you can make better decisions with that 1 extra card in your hand. The other thing to note about these games is that they were a turn slower than the game 1 games. This makes total sense, given that 8Rack added in 3 more removal spells, any of which can add a turn to the game.
Here's the win and loss breakdown for 8Rack vs. Junk in game 2:
Win with Rats: 6
Win with Rack burn: 6
Win with Lockdown (Bridge/Crime/Rack/Lilly): 7
Win with Muta beats: 1
Loss to general beatdown: 8
Loss to Lingering Souls: 6
Loss to slow-roll (waiting for Decay topdeck) 6
Losses attributable to Fulminator Mage: 5
There was a pretty even split between the causes for my wins and the causes for my losses. Rat was both better because Junk boarded out a lot of removal but worse because they had more threats to prevent Rat from getting online and becoming relevant. Rack Burn was also a little less common because I had to spend early mana to keep back creatures instead of taking apart their hand; this wasn't a misplay so much as it was a reprioritization based on their new threats. As for losses, Spirit tokens remained a big problem because they dodge 1 for 1 spot removal and because the 1 for 1 spot removal takes longer to get out of your hand than other cards because it is more expensive. Finally, Fulminator Mage was a real problem. I keep any hand with 2 lands in it, expecting to draw a third land by turn 3 and then maybe a 4th by turn 5. Fulminator, especially on the play, can keep you off 3 mana for 2+ turns easily, or blow up an Urborg to ensure you don't have BB when it's needed.
GAMES 2/3 OVERALL IMPRESSIONS
Here were my general takeaways from games 2 and 3.
1. Lack of topdeck power
In my earlier post, I described this as lack of filtering or card draw, but that's not really the core issue here. The real issue is the lack of topdeck power in the mid and late game. This was eminently apparent when going against post-sideboard Junk which had boarded out its removal and boarded in a bunch of threats. While I was drawing a bunch of random discard spells, unable to find a clock or a Bridge, Junk was drawing threats. This is also an issue I see in other tournament reports, so I think it's really a deck-wide challenge. The more games you play, the more obvious it becomes. In part, this is sort of the lay of the land when playing a discard-based deck. Your discard topdecks are going to get weaker as the game progresses, especially if you don't need the discard but do need something that has more presence. But just because it's an issue with our strategy overall that does not mean we should just ignore it. I do think there are ways to fix it and we need to fix it if we want this deck to succeed in larger venues.
2. 8Rack is faster than people think
A lot of people both here and elsewhere see "hand control" and read it as "hand CONTROL", i.e. a slow-rolling deck that controls the hand and the game. Although 8Rack certainly can do this, 8Rack can also have some pretty speed openings and closings of a game on the back of that countermagic. This takes two forms. The first is ripping a removal spell and a threat with discard and then dropping Pack Rat. It can be really hard for fair decks to come back from that, especially if those fair decks are designed to grind. The second is in landing 2+ racks early and then just suicidally destroying their hand and letting the Racks work. 2+ Racks, even just 2 racks period, deal a ton of damage. That part is obvious, but this next part might not be. Sometimes, our inclination is to get up Racks, hold down the fort with a Bridge, and try to rip them apart behind our shield. But although Bridge might keep us alive, casting Bridge can also be like giving our opponent an extra turn of life, or an extra turn to find an answer. Sometimes, we need to race, not turtle. I think people intuitively know this from playing the deck, but I do not think many lists are designed to take advantage of that speed. There are lots of times where we want to improve our deck's chances of finding Bridge, when maybe another option is to improve our chance of dealing damage. The recent BR list from SCG is definitely designed to do things like that, and although it is not without flaws, that general approach is an interesting one.
3. 8Rack is decent against Junk!
All in all, I think this version of the deck that I tested was pretty decent against Junk. Assuming you win in game 1, which you should because you are favored, you should then be able to win either game 2 or game 3 to close out the match. That's good news when we see metagames that have a fair amount of Junk and should give hope to pilots of this deck. Although we still have to figure out the aggro matchup, I am heartened that we seem to have a positive matchup against the (arguably) best deck in the format.
Amazing how these lists that out perform your own are "crap, trash and *****"... and you put the burden of proof BACK on them and never on yourself and your lists to outperform these lists. It has nothing to do with me or any lists I would create... you are bashing the ONLY high level performing lists that have been seen out in paper.
You seem to put it out a lot that no list that isnt MemoryLapse's is good, regardless of its performance anywhere because its more important that you are right than it is to actually make 8rack a viable deck to play in modern.
Someone - "Hey this card show potential"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "This list Day 2d a GP"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "This list top 16"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "I tested this card, here are the results, specifics, and breakdown"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "Thought about this splash, its been working well"
Memory - "Its crap"
Someone - "Why is this crap?"
Memory - "Because its clearly crap"
If everything is crap and your list is perfect what are you doing here Memory? Go crush some GPs, Opens, and IQs... or else quit trying to crash on everyone for suggesting anything but "MemoryLapse lists".
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Here is the article by the R/B 8Rack pilot Pete Casella: http://boltsnapbolt.net/petes-magic-maze-volume-5 Please be civil when discussing it.
I 4-0'd today, and recorded live commentary (see below). Standings screenshot; in-game screenshot. Beat Burn, Junk twice, and RUG Twin. The Twin match is very intense; I strongly recommend watching that one especially. The list is tweaked from last time, with some help from ktkenshinx. As I say in the video, the sideboard is going to be tweaked some more, but it is closer to where I think we should be right now. Also, it should please those who've been wanting a more traditional sideboard.
15 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mutavault
Creatures: 2
2 Pack Rat
Other spells: 35
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shrieking Affliction
4 The Rack
4 Thoughtseize
3 Victim of Night
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Wrench Mind
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Darkblast
1 Pack Rat
2 Bile Blight
1 Syphon Life
4 Leyline of Sanctity