I went 4-2 at the GPT yesterday (made top 16, but not top 8), I'm pretty sure I was the only one playing 8rack. Here's a breakdown of my matches and some stuff about what worked, and didn't work. First, this is what I wound up taking:
Match 1 - Scapeshift/TTB (2/0)
Round 1: I had a decent hand with T1, T2 discard with T3 bridge. I quickly locked him out, he never drew into any combo piece.
Round 2: He plays 0 turn leyline of sanctity, but I had mists in my hand so I felt confident, despite having no T1 Discard, I play T1 The Rack and say pass. He plays T2 Chalice for 1! Wow, chalice and leyline both! If it weren't for my T1 Rack, it would be game over for me. I grinded him down with necrogen mists and (eventually) lily, he couldn't get his combo off, despite knocking me down to 6 with double valakut and cracking fetch lands. He did blow my mists at one point with Back to Nature which also destroyed his leyline, but that chalice for 1 hurt me most of all.
SB: +2 Deathmark +1 Necrogen Mists / -2 VoN -1 WN.
Match 2 - Martyr Proc (2/1)
Round 1: We got deck cheked, my opponent got a game loss because he had extra cards in his deckbox that were not part of his deck. Be careful!!!
Round 2: I saw one discard spell all game and that no impact against a hand full of squadron hawks. Got beat down by 6/6 Serra Ascendants
Round 3: T1 discard followed with Bridge + Lily. Slowly whittled him down from over 40 life with a single shrieking affliction. Darkblast was kind of meh here.
SB: +2 Deathmark +2 Darkblast / -2 Victim -1 WN -1 MC
Match 3 - Esper Control (0/2)
Bad matchup for me. He had 4x think twice, 4x esper charm, 4x sphinx rev, 4x cryptic command (and 4x snapcaster) main. Both games were very grindy but he had the sheer draw power + countermagic to lock me out.
Game 2 I surgical'ed his T1 discarded Lingering Souls to find that it was a singleton in his whole deck. Figures.
SB: +2 Surgial, +1 Necrogen +1 BB / -4 Ensnaring Bridge
Match 4 - Junk (0/2)
Round 1: I kept an okay hand with 2 rack effects and a wrench mind. I drew into 3 more rack effects and land, nothing else. Watched bob + multiple goyfs beat me up
Round 2: Kept a better hand with T1, 2, and 3 discard. Made a play mistake, he swung with a 2/3 goyf which I hit with VoN. To which he followed up with bob. That 2/3 was worth taking the hit to get rid of bob that early game, I should have waited and saw what he played second main, the 2 damage was not important. Bob's draw power let him come back to the game.
SB: +2 Deathmark +1 Bile Blight / -1 WN -1 Slaughter Pact -1 Pack Rat
Match 5 - Merfolk (2/0)
This was a touch matchup for him. Game 1 I had him locked down with bridge and lily which he had no answer to. Game 2 I had no discard spells in my hand, but a ton of removal. He played a phantasmal image targeting his lord of atlantis, then spreading seas on my mutavault, and was about to swing for 16. I bile blighted that lord just before attackers and took about 6 total - he was not happy. Pack Rat took that second game for me.
SB: +2 Bile Blight / -1 WN -1 Pendant
Match 6 - GR Through The Breach (2/0)
Round 1: Decent hand with 1 rack and a lot of discard. I drew a lot of land but raven's crime grinded him out. I played very aggressively in the hand-control game which eventually locked him down forcing him to have to topdeck emrakul AND a way to play it, which never happened.
Round 2: Another very grindy game. Primeval Titan hit, I hit with VoN, Primeval Titan came down second turn (topdek), triggered valakut and killed my lily, I followed up with ensnaring bridge. I finally saw pendant and it helped me find the second rack which finished him off. I won with only about 4 life.
SB: +2 Deathmark, +4 Surgical / -1 MC -1 Slaughter Pact -1 WN, etc
Final Thoughts: Good call on Bile Blight in the SB, that was solid. Deathmark was also super solid because it's good against so many different decks. I didn't see any burn or any tron all night but I still think the 3x pithing needle is very important. Necrogen Mists was a rock star, I might move it to main, it made magic happen every single time, very disruptive.
I was less than impressed with Waste Not the few times I drew it. That will become a singleton SB slot against UW/x decks in the future. The higher count of spot removal was solid, I was always happy to have it regardless of the game. Even against esper I was able to kill off his 4/4 lands with victim of night. I did almost try to use victim of night against an attacking mutavault and I had to remind myself "oh wait...that's a werewolf o,o" Azban was played in droves, and we have to answer their dark confidant when it hits, almost immediately.
Pendant was also very good the one time I had it. If I took away one thing from last night is that this deck needs better consistency. Some games I lost or were dragged out too long because of a mismatch of control vs. pressure elements, other times bad draws decided the game against my favor. I've been reading what some people are saying about splashing for mystic speculation or other similar types of cards. I think that's the way to go although the mono black mana base with lots of basics is hard to top for a number of reasons. Until next time: Go Hawks!! ~_^
The transmute could prove useful, but I'm thinking for the effect splashing for mystic speculation might be better.
Its a bit more than just scry 3. You can use it offensively, potentially keeping them pinned down while your lock wins, or it tutors for a lock piece.
Yeah that's true too, although it could be argued that manipulating your top often enough will basically cause the same effect. I'm curious how often each of the three modes would be used. Guess I'm still all about trying different splashes. (The ONLY thing I truly dislike about this deck, and black in general is its inability to remove artifacts and enchantments)
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We havent talked about Dimir Machinations in a long time. I guess I never really thought of potentially using it on myself as to scry. As a utility/filter card 2-of, its actually a lot more appealing to me than Pendant. It has 3 modes, all of them seem decent.
Grats on the daily win Destroyer. Thoughts on Dimir Mach??
Overcosted, slow, and unreliable. But maybe I'm wrong. Test it.
@ destroyermaker I Agree. Since we play an attrition deck anything that is card disadvantage has to have a super powerful effect.
Think I am going to order the dark slick shores tomorrow and start testing the blue splash Mystic speculation also seems pretty sweet alongside serum visions.
@Foxy Darkblast is your Bob killer. Works ok on tokens in a pinch.
I agree in principle, but it doesn't really affect anything else in their deck so if you don't see bob the game, or you happen kill it earlier with VoN and draw darkblast later, it's a dead card. I really would like it to be more versatile. I keep coming back to disfigure but a lot of cases where disfigure is good, darkblast or bile blight might be better.
Serum Visions is miles better than Mystic. We don't have room for both, but even if we did, I would never use Mystic.
I think a one or two of mystic with visions wouldn't be bad. In a really stalled out game digging six cards for four mana could be pretty helpful. Granted you would need two blue, But you never know.....
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@ destroyermaker I Agree. Since we play an attrition deck anything that is card disadvantage has to have a super powerful effect.
Think I am going to order the dark slick shores tomorrow and start testing the blue splash Mystic speculation also seems pretty sweet alongside serum visions.
You may want to just go polluted delta watery grave. The card stripping with fetches its minimal but still there, and if you ever want to run tasigur or any delve it doesn't hurt. Besides if life is an issue fetches are all swamps with urborg.
Note:sorry for the multi posts, my phone doesn't much care for working correctly with this site.
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@Foxy Darkblast is your Bob killer. Works ok on tokens in a pinch.
I agree in principle, but it doesn't really affect anything else in their deck so if you don't see bob the game, or you happen kill it earlier with VoN and draw darkblast later, it's a dead card. I really would like it to be more versatile. I keep coming back to disfigure but a lot of cases where disfigure is good, darkblast or bile blight might be better.
With Pod gone and Delver smashed by a ban, the only reason to keep DB around is Affinity. It's certainly strong in that matchup but I wouldn't run more than 2-3 of the Blasts given the current metagame. Removal is great in the sideboard but I would prefer versatile removal like Blight.
Great writeup and thanks for sharing it. It's yet another set of results that suggests we should try out additional filter options. I'm excited to try out more Mists, especially in a metagame that has so many decks that rely on handsize and can't race through Racks. I'm not entirely sure what cards need to get swapped out for all this but it's something to think about.
Also, I'm done with the Junk game 2 tests. Writeup to follow. My final win rate was a flat 50% (20/40), with a 9/20 win rate on the play and an 11/20 win rate on the draw. Details to come later!
The reason I run 4 Blast is because it's a straight swap with Wrench Mind (and when it was more relevant, with Bridge vs Delver). That and it's really difficult to have too many vs Affinity; wins often hinge on drawing one, and sometimes two. I find it really unsettling to leave in any Wrench Mind vs Affinity, but maybe it's worth it to have suboptimal sideboarding plans to have more slots? Or maybe I could take out a Blast or two for a Needle or two or something else good vs them + other decks. I kinda like that idea.
I was under the impression that Ktkenshinx was talking about doing 2-3 DB, then 1-2 Bile Blights. That way you can still swap 4 Wrench Minds for 4 Removal.
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I was under the impression that Ktkenshinx was talking about doing 2-3 DB, then 1-2 Bile Blights. That way you can still swap 4 Wrench Minds for 4 Removal.
That's right. In a metagame with Pod, Delver, and Affinity, you definitely need 4 DBs in the board and it's an easy swap. But with Pod gone and Delver dethroned, the only match where I would do that is Affinity, and I think that having +2 slots in the board is better than having 4 DBs for that one matchup. Especially because the difference between 4 DB and 2 DB/2 BB is probably not that huge against Affinity anyway.
Understood. I agree with Delver gone, this plan makes sense. I never found Blast worth it vs Pod so that's not a consideration to me. I'll mull over the optimal configuration; it's important to me sideboarding is smooth for other matchups where I'd want Blight, and to a lesser extent, Blast.
Edit: another 3-1 with the same list as yesterday/in the primer. Standings screenshot; in-game screenshot. Beat Soul Sisters, Storm, and Auras; lost to Dredgevine. Footage later.
Thoughts/notes: Soul Sisters was a cakewalk, again partly thanks to Blight. Blight was also great against Storm tokens in one of the post-board games, which I took out Bridge for. Auras was the usual cakewalk, too; he drew two pieces of removal for Bridge in the second game, but I discarded one, and had two Bridges out, so it didn't matter. He spent the whole game triggering Spiritdancers a million times, to no avail. Dredgevine is a very bad matchup for us and played out how you'd probably expect. We help their plan and they have Ancient Grudge for Bridge; Surgical Extraction is the key to both problems (get Vengevine and/or Grudge with it), but usually won't be enough or come at the right time (it didn't for me).
I was looking at everything I take out for Blight, Blast, and Extraction (usually Rat or Wrench Mind, vs Affinity, Delver, Soul Sisters, Infect, Tokens, Zoo, Storm, Burn, Twin, Tron, Scapeshift, and Merfolk), and found it was always in 3-4 of's, so that's why almost everything is 3-4 of.
Needle is there as a 2-of, since both Tron decks are quite popular right now, and it swaps fairly smoothly (-4 Wrench Mind -1 Slaughter Pact +3 Extraction +2 Needle). The other options that I can think of are Duress, Waste Not, Spellskite, Ghost Quarter, Buried Ruin, and Bitterblossom (let me know if I'm missing any good ones). These were either not needed for the current metagame or I found against the decks I wanted them for, I didn't want to take anything out. Feel free to criticize my choices; I'm open to improving on this.
On a related note, Rat is good/bad vs 50% of the top 10 decks right now (paper and online).
@Foxy Darkblast is your Bob killer. Works ok on tokens in a pinch.
I agree in principle, but it doesn't really affect anything else in their deck so if you don't see bob the game, or you happen kill it earlier with VoN and draw darkblast later, it's a dead card. I really would like it to be more versatile. I keep coming back to disfigure but a lot of cases where disfigure is good, darkblast or bile blight might be better.
The problem is...Bob will break you if you do not get rid of him. I cannot be let to live. Darkblast can be dredged up whenever another one shows up. It's an even trade deck space wise.
I've added that list to the tourney results, and also to the splash section. I'm not too fond of it, but it is the only red splash list with a tourney finish, so it's there for now. Also, Memory, if you have any tweaks you'd make to the white splash list in the primer, let me know.
The problem is...Bob will break you if you do not get rid of him. I cannot be let to live. Darkblast can be dredged up whenever another one shows up. It's an even trade deck space wise.
Disfigure takes out everything in burn (just never comes back)... I think its a hard toss-up between Disfigure, Darkblast, and Bile Blight in numbers and location (main-side).
Its a bit more than just scry 3. You can use it offensively, potentially keeping them pinned down while your lock wins, or it tutors for a lock piece.
I went 4-2 at the GPT yesterday (made top 16, but not top 8), I'm pretty sure I was the only one playing 8rack. Here's a breakdown of my matches and some stuff about what worked, and didn't work. First, this is what I wound up taking:
13 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mutavault
Creatures: 2
2 Pack Rat
Sorcery: 15
4 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
4 Wrench Mind
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Victim of Night
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Murderous Cut
Artifact/Enchantments: 13
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 The Rack
3 Shrieking Affliction
1 Darksteel Pendant
1 Waste Not
Cuties: 4
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Darkblast
2 Deathmark
2 Bile Blight
3 Pithing Needle
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Bitterblossom
1 Necrogen Mists
Match 1 - Scapeshift/TTB (2/0)
Round 1: I had a decent hand with T1, T2 discard with T3 bridge. I quickly locked him out, he never drew into any combo piece.
Round 2: He plays 0 turn leyline of sanctity, but I had mists in my hand so I felt confident, despite having no T1 Discard, I play T1 The Rack and say pass. He plays T2 Chalice for 1! Wow, chalice and leyline both! If it weren't for my T1 Rack, it would be game over for me. I grinded him down with necrogen mists and (eventually) lily, he couldn't get his combo off, despite knocking me down to 6 with double valakut and cracking fetch lands. He did blow my mists at one point with Back to Nature which also destroyed his leyline, but that chalice for 1 hurt me most of all.
SB: +2 Deathmark +1 Necrogen Mists / -2 VoN -1 WN.
Match 2 - Martyr Proc (2/1)
Round 1: We got deck cheked, my opponent got a game loss because he had extra cards in his deckbox that were not part of his deck. Be careful!!!
Round 2: I saw one discard spell all game and that no impact against a hand full of squadron hawks. Got beat down by 6/6 Serra Ascendants
Round 3: T1 discard followed with Bridge + Lily. Slowly whittled him down from over 40 life with a single shrieking affliction. Darkblast was kind of meh here.
SB: +2 Deathmark +2 Darkblast / -2 Victim -1 WN -1 MC
Match 3 - Esper Control (0/2)
Bad matchup for me. He had 4x think twice, 4x esper charm, 4x sphinx rev, 4x cryptic command (and 4x snapcaster) main. Both games were very grindy but he had the sheer draw power + countermagic to lock me out.
Game 2 I surgical'ed his T1 discarded Lingering Souls to find that it was a singleton in his whole deck. Figures.
SB: +2 Surgial, +1 Necrogen +1 BB / -4 Ensnaring Bridge
Match 4 - Junk (0/2)
Round 1: I kept an okay hand with 2 rack effects and a wrench mind. I drew into 3 more rack effects and land, nothing else. Watched bob + multiple goyfs beat me up
Round 2: Kept a better hand with T1, 2, and 3 discard. Made a play mistake, he swung with a 2/3 goyf which I hit with VoN. To which he followed up with bob. That 2/3 was worth taking the hit to get rid of bob that early game, I should have waited and saw what he played second main, the 2 damage was not important. Bob's draw power let him come back to the game.
SB: +2 Deathmark +1 Bile Blight / -1 WN -1 Slaughter Pact -1 Pack Rat
Match 5 - Merfolk (2/0)
This was a touch matchup for him. Game 1 I had him locked down with bridge and lily which he had no answer to. Game 2 I had no discard spells in my hand, but a ton of removal. He played a phantasmal image targeting his lord of atlantis, then spreading seas on my mutavault, and was about to swing for 16. I bile blighted that lord just before attackers and took about 6 total - he was not happy. Pack Rat took that second game for me.
SB: +2 Bile Blight / -1 WN -1 Pendant
Match 6 - GR Through The Breach (2/0)
Round 1: Decent hand with 1 rack and a lot of discard. I drew a lot of land but raven's crime grinded him out. I played very aggressively in the hand-control game which eventually locked him down forcing him to have to topdeck emrakul AND a way to play it, which never happened.
Round 2: Another very grindy game. Primeval Titan hit, I hit with VoN, Primeval Titan came down second turn (topdek), triggered valakut and killed my lily, I followed up with ensnaring bridge. I finally saw pendant and it helped me find the second rack which finished him off. I won with only about 4 life.
SB: +2 Deathmark, +4 Surgical / -1 MC -1 Slaughter Pact -1 WN, etc
Final Thoughts: Good call on Bile Blight in the SB, that was solid. Deathmark was also super solid because it's good against so many different decks. I didn't see any burn or any tron all night but I still think the 3x pithing needle is very important. Necrogen Mists was a rock star, I might move it to main, it made magic happen every single time, very disruptive.
I was less than impressed with Waste Not the few times I drew it. That will become a singleton SB slot against UW/x decks in the future. The higher count of spot removal was solid, I was always happy to have it regardless of the game. Even against esper I was able to kill off his 4/4 lands with victim of night. I did almost try to use victim of night against an attacking mutavault and I had to remind myself "oh wait...that's a werewolf o,o" Azban was played in droves, and we have to answer their dark confidant when it hits, almost immediately.
Pendant was also very good the one time I had it. If I took away one thing from last night is that this deck needs better consistency. Some games I lost or were dragged out too long because of a mismatch of control vs. pressure elements, other times bad draws decided the game against my favor. I've been reading what some people are saying about splashing for mystic speculation or other similar types of cards. I think that's the way to go although the mono black mana base with lots of basics is hard to top for a number of reasons. Until next time: Go Hawks!! ~_^
B 8-Rack B All the way!
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Yeah that's true too, although it could be argued that manipulating your top often enough will basically cause the same effect. I'm curious how often each of the three modes would be used. Guess I'm still all about trying different splashes. (The ONLY thing I truly dislike about this deck, and black in general is its inability to remove artifacts and enchantments)
Overcosted, slow, and unreliable. But maybe I'm wrong. Test it.
Think I am going to order the dark slick shores tomorrow and start testing the blue splash Mystic speculation also seems pretty sweet alongside serum visions.
I agree in principle, but it doesn't really affect anything else in their deck so if you don't see bob the game, or you happen kill it earlier with VoN and draw darkblast later, it's a dead card. I really would like it to be more versatile. I keep coming back to disfigure but a lot of cases where disfigure is good, darkblast or bile blight might be better.
B 8-Rack B All the way!
Legacy
GWB Maverick GWB
B OG Pox B
Favourite Card
Ice Cauldron
I think a one or two of mystic with visions wouldn't be bad. In a really stalled out game digging six cards for four mana could be pretty helpful. Granted you would need two blue, But you never know.....
You may want to just go polluted delta watery grave. The card stripping with fetches its minimal but still there, and if you ever want to run tasigur or any delve it doesn't hurt. Besides if life is an issue fetches are all swamps with urborg.
Note:sorry for the multi posts, my phone doesn't much care for working correctly with this site.
With Pod gone and Delver smashed by a ban, the only reason to keep DB around is Affinity. It's certainly strong in that matchup but I wouldn't run more than 2-3 of the Blasts given the current metagame. Removal is great in the sideboard but I would prefer versatile removal like Blight.
Great writeup and thanks for sharing it. It's yet another set of results that suggests we should try out additional filter options. I'm excited to try out more Mists, especially in a metagame that has so many decks that rely on handsize and can't race through Racks. I'm not entirely sure what cards need to get swapped out for all this but it's something to think about.
Also, I'm done with the Junk game 2 tests. Writeup to follow. My final win rate was a flat 50% (20/40), with a 9/20 win rate on the play and an 11/20 win rate on the draw. Details to come later!
Edit: I'm also open to cutting 1x Extraction.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
That's right. In a metagame with Pod, Delver, and Affinity, you definitely need 4 DBs in the board and it's an easy swap. But with Pod gone and Delver dethroned, the only match where I would do that is Affinity, and I think that having +2 slots in the board is better than having 4 DBs for that one matchup. Especially because the difference between 4 DB and 2 DB/2 BB is probably not that huge against Affinity anyway.
Edit: another 3-1 with the same list as yesterday/in the primer. Standings screenshot; in-game screenshot. Beat Soul Sisters, Storm, and Auras; lost to Dredgevine. Footage later.
15 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mutavault
Creatures: 3
3 Pack Rat
Other spells: 35
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shrieking Affliction
4 The Rack
4 Thoughtseize
2 Victim of Night
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Wrench Mind
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Darkblast
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Bile Blight
Thoughts/notes: Soul Sisters was a cakewalk, again partly thanks to Blight. Blight was also great against Storm tokens in one of the post-board games, which I took out Bridge for. Auras was the usual cakewalk, too; he drew two pieces of removal for Bridge in the second game, but I discarded one, and had two Bridges out, so it didn't matter. He spent the whole game triggering Spiritdancers a million times, to no avail. Dredgevine is a very bad matchup for us and played out how you'd probably expect. We help their plan and they have Ancient Grudge for Bridge; Surgical Extraction is the key to both problems (get Vengevine and/or Grudge with it), but usually won't be enough or come at the right time (it didn't for me).
Edit 2: tentative new sideboard below.
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Bile Blight
2x Pithing Needle
I was looking at everything I take out for Blight, Blast, and Extraction (usually Rat or Wrench Mind, vs Affinity, Delver, Soul Sisters, Infect, Tokens, Zoo, Storm, Burn, Twin, Tron, Scapeshift, and Merfolk), and found it was always in 3-4 of's, so that's why almost everything is 3-4 of.
Needle is there as a 2-of, since both Tron decks are quite popular right now, and it swaps fairly smoothly (-4 Wrench Mind -1 Slaughter Pact +3 Extraction +2 Needle). The other options that I can think of are Duress, Waste Not, Spellskite, Ghost Quarter, Buried Ruin, and Bitterblossom (let me know if I'm missing any good ones). These were either not needed for the current metagame or I found against the decks I wanted them for, I didn't want to take anything out. Feel free to criticize my choices; I'm open to improving on this.
On a related note, Rat is good/bad vs 50% of the top 10 decks right now (paper and online).
(Metagame stats courtesy of ktkenshinx: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-breakdown-and-discussion-updated-1?page=13#c329)
The problem is...Bob will break you if you do not get rid of him. I cannot be let to live. Darkblast can be dredged up whenever another one shows up. It's an even trade deck space wise.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=79403
I've added that list to the tourney results, and also to the splash section. I'm not too fond of it, but it is the only red splash list with a tourney finish, so it's there for now. Also, Memory, if you have any tweaks you'd make to the white splash list in the primer, let me know.
Disfigure takes out everything in burn (just never comes back)... I think its a hard toss-up between Disfigure, Darkblast, and Bile Blight in numbers and location (main-side).
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact