Would you consider switching out some of the shock lands for shadowmoor filter lands? I feel like they would really help smooth out your mana base with the green splash. I think they might even be worth it in 2 color faeries since we play 4 mutavaults. Love the simic charm, brilliant!!! I do think goyf serves the two drop spot better than ooze, but will be interested to hear more about your testing.
Actually the filter lands are REALLY bad in 2 color decks with lots of colorless sources like Mutavault. They can work in decks which have lots of triple UUU + another triple color for example your deck runs 2-3 cryptics + 2 Kiki-Jiki. Not just one or the other. The filter lands mana screw you quite often in the builds with mutavault. Besides the manabase is already excellent in straight U/B.
Shouta yasooka begs to differ. And he did great during the pro tour with UB Faeries (4 mutavaults, 3 Sunken ruins, 25 lands). Sunken ruins finds its use in mana bases that would like to support both liliana and cryptic command. Besides, I have run one for a very long time and it isn't as nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
So I've been admiring modern fae for some time and I think I finally want to actually give it a shot, but before I buy the cards, I was wondering if I could get some recommendations.
So my major question is how good is adding a third color to the classic UB deck? I understand fae runs 25 or 26 lands (is one of these more standard than the other?) and that you need fetches to add a third color which means adding shock lands. With the amount of life loss from Bitterblossom and thoughtseize, fetches don't seem all that good to me here. I just read an article where a pro claimed anyone who ran fetches in fae was dead wrong and while I think that could be going a bit far, I get his point. I get adding red could mean lightning bolts or electrolyze and white means chiefly path to exile as well as huge SB options. (I've seen Green as well, but abrupt decay alone doesn't quite pull me in as much for some reason. I guess there's goyf too, but I dunno. Couldn't you just ran Tasigur? Am I making a huge oversight there?). What is the general consensus on this? Does straight UB get more results than UBx?
Also, I know there are two different main routes for the deck being scion of oona or no. What's the preferred method in the current meta? I'm aware this changes whether you put a more equipment based slot or two in the deck or a more planeswalker based version. I could see Liliana of the Veil being the main walker and the swords being the main ones for equipment. Other than Feast and Famine for tempo, which is the second preferred sword? War and Peace or light and shadow for life? Or fire and ice for damage? Is one of these routes (swords or lili) strictly better than the other? Personally, it looks like lili is stronger, but I'm not sure I want to spend 100 a pop for the 2 of them. I feel similar about the green splash mainly because of goyf's price. I'm not playing budget, but...Well come one. It's just a lot. Especially if I did both.
Lastly, I keep reading about how fae just die horribly to decks that are very fast aggro, mainly zoo. I heard that to a lesser extent about affinity. Burn?
How winnable are these matchups?
Lastly, I keep reading about how fae just die horribly to decks that are very fast aggro, mainly zoo. I heard that to a lesser extent about affinity. Burn?
How winnable are these matchups?
Thanks guys! I really appreciate your input.
Burn is ok because they have a limited amount of guys and we can counter their spells with SSS which brings bodies to the field (aka blockers for their guys). With our removal and counter suit the match should be ok game 1 and favorable G2.
Against affinity SSS shines again, game 1 can be tricky but winnable for sure, and with hurkyl's recall and more removal post SB we are fine.
Heavy creature aggro decks is mostly the problem like zoo or goblins (which simply destroyed me last FNM)
So I've been admiring modern fae for some time and I think I finally want to actually give it a shot, but before I buy the cards, I was wondering if I could get some recommendations.
So my major question is how good is adding a third color to the classic UB deck? I understand fae runs 25 or 26 lands (is one of these more standard than the other?) and that you need fetches to add a third color which means adding shock lands. With the amount of life loss from Bitterblossom and thoughtseize, fetches don't seem all that good to me here. I just read an article where a pro claimed anyone who ran fetches in fae was dead wrong and while I think that could be going a bit far, I get his point. I get adding red could mean lightning bolts or electrolyze and white means chiefly path to exile as well as huge SB options. (I've seen Green as well, but abrupt decay alone doesn't quite pull me in as much for some reason. I guess there's goyf too, but I dunno. Couldn't you just ran Tasigur? Am I making a huge oversight there?). What is the general consensus on this? Does straight UB get more results than UBx?
Also, I know there are two different main routes for the deck being scion of oona or no. What's the preferred method in the current meta? I'm aware this changes whether you put a more equipment based slot or two in the deck or a more planeswalker based version. I could see Liliana of the Veil being the main walker and the swords being the main ones for equipment. Other than Feast and Famine for tempo, which is the second preferred sword? War and Peace or light and shadow for life? Or fire and ice for damage? Is one of these routes (swords or lili) strictly better than the other? Personally, it looks like lili is stronger, but I'm not sure I want to spend 100 a pop for the 2 of them. I feel similar about the green splash mainly because of goyf's price. I'm not playing budget, but...Well come one. It's just a lot. Especially if I did both.
Lastly, I keep reading about how fae just die horribly to decks that are very fast aggro, mainly zoo. I heard that to a lesser extent about affinity. Burn?
How winnable are these matchups?
Thanks guys! I really appreciate your input.
Hey! Welcome to the thread.
A third colour should add something to your gameplan. Goyf acts as a stabilizer, while burn can finish games more quickly. White is probably the least colour you would like to add. Splashes really hurt matches against burn and affinity, so you would like to get something in return. Goyf stabilizes against aggro, for example. Splashing should really be considered, if you want to go for it. Tasigur does not come out in turn 2. That difference is huge against aggro.
Due to high price tag and impopularity of the deck in general, only green splashes have succeeded so far to put up some results, though the far majority of decks are straight UB. UB is a very solid starts and it has to be seen how much improvement you will get from colour splashing.
Swords and lilly add card quality and power to the deck and the deck becomes more midrangey. Without them, the deck is more flashy. It highly depends on your playstyle and what you feel comfortable with. Sword(less) and Liliana(less) lists have all put up results in bigger sized tournaments (mainly PTQ, GPT >100 players). Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Feast and Famine are exceptionally strong, but also consider Batterskull. You can run Jace Beleren, but any other planeswalker is immensely bad. 4 mana is the mistbind clique and cryptic command territory and they are much better than all planeswalkers that can slot in there.
Scion of Oona can be added, in Spain people have t8'ed some big events with them, as did some in the US. Usually, 2-3 are added.
Big zoo is manageable. Small zoo, one drop zoo, especially when they play burning-tree emissary, are really, really[ hard to beat. Adjust your sidedeck accordingly.
Affinity and especially burn are surprisingly comfortable matchups, though you really need to understand the ins and outs.
Affinity: Spell snare is huge. Bitterblossom tokens kill almost every creature they throw at you. Mutavault is one of the few blockers that can naturally block an etched champion. Spellstutter sprite acts both as a counter everything card and a 2-mana removal spell. Faeries really have a lot of tools to tackle affinity.
Burn: For a deck that plays bitterblossom, we do exceptionally well against burn. The painless manabase from the straight UB yields you them needing up to two more burn spells to finish you. Spellstutter sprites can basically counter everything from their deck, while they are also nice chumpers. I strongly advice Liliana of the Veil against burn.
Splashing a colour weakens your chances against these two. Green (goyf!) would at least guarantee you some early staying power against aggro, while white adds nothing for you in the equation.
Really bad matchups are GR Tron, BW Tokens and 1 drop zoo/gruul zoo (scions may help against tron and tokens).
Really good matchups are anything coloured UWR, Twin and most combo decks (scions are weaker against twin and combo decks).
A third colour should add something to your gameplan. Goyf acts as a stabilizer, while burn can finish games more quickly. White is probably the least colour you would like to add. Splashes really hurt matches against burn and affinity, so you would like to get something in return. Goyf stabilizes against aggro, for example. Splashing should really be considered, if you want to go for it. Tasigur does not come out in turn 2. That difference is huge against aggro.
Due to high price tag and impopularity of the deck in general, only green splashes have succeeded so far to put up some results, though the far majority of decks are straight UB. UB is a very solid starts and it has to be seen how much improvement you will get from colour splashing.
Swords and lilly add card quality and power to the deck and the deck becomes more midrangey. Without them, the deck is more flashy. It highly depends on your playstyle and what you feel comfortable with. Sword(less) and Liliana(less) lists have all put up results in bigger sized tournaments (mainly PTQ, GPT >100 players). Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Feast and Famine are exceptionally strong, but also consider Batterskull. You can run Jace Beleren, but any other planeswalker is immensely bad. 4 mana is the mistbind clique and cryptic command territory and they are much better than all planeswalkers that can slot in there.
Scion of Oona can be added, in Spain people have t8'ed some big events with them, as did some in the US. Usually, 2-3 are added.
Big zoo is manageable. Small zoo, one drop zoo, especially when they play burning-tree emissary, are really, really[ hard to beat. Adjust your sidedeck accordingly.
Affinity and especially burn are surprisingly comfortable matchups, though you really need to understand the ins and outs.
Affinity: Spell snare is huge. Bitterblossom tokens kill almost every creature they throw at you. Mutavault is one of the few blockers that can naturally block an etched champion. Spellstutter sprite acts both as a counter everything card and a 2-mana removal spell. Faeries really have a lot of tools to tackle affinity.
Burn: For a deck that plays bitterblossom, we do exceptionally well against burn. The painless manabase from the straight UB yields you them needing up to two more burn spells to finish you. Spellstutter sprites can basically counter everything from their deck, while they are also nice chumpers. I strongly advice Liliana of the Veil against burn.
Splashing a colour weakens your chances against these two. Green (goyf!) would at least guarantee you some early staying power against aggro, while white adds nothing for you in the equation.
Really bad matchups are GR Tron, BW Tokens and 1 drop zoo/gruul zoo (scions may help against tron and tokens).
Really good matchups are anything coloured UWR, Twin and most combo decks (scions are weaker against twin and combo decks).
This is about it . Enjoy the deck!
Thanks! Glad to be on it =).
Okay, That's kinda how I was viewing it too. That's a fair point. I think I'll take your advise and go for the straight UB to start.
Right. So, you'd say swords vs lili and scion or no is all just personal choice? None are seen to be generally better (in the current meta)?
I see. That's sorta what I've been seeing across the board. Does the BUG variant do significantly better against little zoo?
What's the GBx MU like?
The other thing I meant to ask about was vedalken shackles. Can they replace the sword/ walker slot? Also, if you chose to run them, do you still need threads of disloyalty? Does this variant improve our bad MUs any?
Thanks! I think I will. As soon as I go and actually purchase the last of the cards I need anyway.
I run 6 fetches in my U/B fae list... I also run 3x Shackles though. So its not the thinning that matters, its the islands that matter.
PS : No I cant just replace those 6 fetches with 6 islands, because my deck does have another color.
Yeah, and it makes sense for that reason. There are plenty of valid reasons to run fetches, but running them purely to thin out your deck and for no other reason in something like mono-B? The one guy above seemed to be arguing that it was good solely for the thinning, which is the only thing I was arguing against.
So I've been admiring modern fae for some time and I think I finally want to actually give it a shot, but before I buy the cards, I was wondering if I could get some recommendations.
So my major question is how good is adding a third color to the classic UB deck? I understand fae runs 25 or 26 lands (is one of these more standard than the other?) and that you need fetches to add a third color which means adding shock lands. With the amount of life loss from Bitterblossom and thoughtseize, fetches don't seem all that good to me here. I just read an article where a pro claimed anyone who ran fetches in fae was dead wrong and while I think that could be going a bit far, I get his point. I get adding red could mean lightning bolts or electrolyze and white means chiefly path to exile as well as huge SB options. (I've seen Green as well, but abrupt decay alone doesn't quite pull me in as much for some reason. I guess there's goyf too, but I dunno. Couldn't you just ran Tasigur? Am I making a huge oversight there?). What is the general consensus on this? Does straight UB get more results than UBx?
Also, I know there are two different main routes for the deck being scion of oona or no. What's the preferred method in the current meta? I'm aware this changes whether you put a more equipment based slot or two in the deck or a more planeswalker based version. I could see Liliana of the Veil being the main walker and the swords being the main ones for equipment. Other than Feast and Famine for tempo, which is the second preferred sword? War and Peace or light and shadow for life? Or fire and ice for damage? Is one of these routes (swords or lili) strictly better than the other? Personally, it looks like lili is stronger, but I'm not sure I want to spend 100 a pop for the 2 of them. I feel similar about the green splash mainly because of goyf's price. I'm not playing budget, but...Well come one. It's just a lot. Especially if I did both.
Lastly, I keep reading about how fae just die horribly to decks that are very fast aggro, mainly zoo. I heard that to a lesser extent about affinity. Burn?
How winnable are these matchups?
Thanks guys! I really appreciate your input.
Splashing a third color is really debatable. The meta is still adjusting itself right now, partially just going back to pre-treasure cruise times, but also adjusting for the lack of pod. Because of that, there are a lot of debates right now about what we should and shouldn't be doing for this meta. Goyf is rarely a bad thing, and abrupt decay is certainly in a good spot right now. Path is great, but white splash is mostly for the sideboard options. Red gives us burn and some decent sideboard cards. Traditionally, though, straight UB has gotten results more often. The green splash is probably the most viable if you do want to splash, and is the only one to put up results, iirc.
Scion of Oona is in a good spot with the way the meta is looking right now, imo. It blanks a lot of cards in a spot-removal heavy meta, and it allows us to be a bit more aggressive, which is a bit more viable, I think, now that the overall meta has slowed down a touch. That doesn't mean that you have to go all in with 4 of them or nothing, though. Running two or three is perfectly viable and has gotten good results in the past. Feast and famine is great and batterskull is an option. A lot of us were using fire and ice, but I think a lot of that was to keep up with the treasure cruise-fueled decks like delver, so a switch might be in order, now, but it's still always a strong card. What would be best probably depends on your meta. Maybe even just a second feast and famine, or even just no swords at all. I haven't run lily in a while, but she might just be poised for a comeback with pod and treasure cruise gone.
As for matchups, burn is burn. Our matchup with it isn't horrible game 1, but it's not amazing, either. Games 2 and three are a bit more in our favor with solid counter magic and disfigure which kills all of the few creatures they play. Having a third color with shocks and fetches will make that particular matchup a bit harder, especially on game 1.
Affinity isn't actually that bad for us. Yeah, if they vomit their hand all over the table turn 1 it's gonna be hard to come back from that, but that's true of most any deck. Spell snare, hurkyll's recall, and our removal suite make it a pretty solid match for us considering that, without their two drops, they can't get through our creatures.
Big zoo isn't bad, but small zoo sucks. We just have trouble with decks that are packed with a bunch of good one-drop creatures. You're gonna have to dedicate some sideboard space to beat them if they're prevalent in your meta. Even then it can take some luck in my experience. Same with GR tron.
We're pretty great against any kind of combo and UWR control as we can generally out-tempo either one.
I've gotten mixed results against GBx, but I haven't gotten to test against it a lot. My initial reaction is that it's a relatively even matchup, but scion does a lot to push it in our favor. Saying no to them abrupt decaying bitterblossom feels great, and the lord effect helps if they're playing lingering souls.
You're joking right? You think "thinning" a deck with fetches is relevant in a control deck, but being able to take a powerful creature from an opponent with Thoughtseize isn't worth 2 life??
Yes, very relevant. especially when you've got to replace 1-3 spells per turn so you can keep up with your opponent and what he/she is doing. Drawing into extra lands is not what you want to be doing.
I never said that Thoughtseize wasn't worth the 2 life. I Did say that 2-8 life loss on top of Bitterblossom and fetch lands, while accompanied by shock lands, is a great way to kill yourself.
Example:
-First turn: Drop a Watery Grave, play a Thoughtseize, down to 16 life
-Second Turn: drop land, hold for counter or drop Bitterblossom, pass turn
Third turn: if you played Bitterblossom you lose one life, down to 15.
That's without popping a fetch land, using a Caves of Koilos, or taking any damage. Now add in, say, a burn decks Goblin Guide first turn(2dmg), at least 2 damage second turn, and at least 3 damage your third turn. You're at 8 life starting your 4th turn. Have fun with that. I'd rather pay one life, pop a fetch, grab a basic, and get to work over paying 2 for my Watery Graves every time I want to play one. Along with turn one IoK that makes me lose 0 life and can hit 80% of the cards that are actually used in modern events anyway.
Fetch example:
Turn one: Polluted Delta, swamp, Inquisition, down to 19
Turn two: another fetch, island, hold for counter or play BitterBlossom, down to 18
Turn three: you may have another fetch, one damage from BB, 16-18 life.
Meanwhile, you've shuffled your deck 2-3 times, and pulled 2-3 lands out(ones you need and also can't be bothered by Blood Moon) increasing your chances to draw what you need.
That's a funny one. You do know that deck thinning is mathematically proven to be almost irrelevant, right? The life you're losing with fetching is infinitely more relevant than thinning your deck from 51 cards to 50.
It hasn't proven to be irrelevant to me every time I pick up one of my magic decks and sit down at a table.
I never said to run Tar Pits...he can run Darkslick Shores or Secluded Glen. Ruins is baaadd. Spell pierce is NOT great early. Many decks aren't going to play anything you can even hit with it early. On the play they thoughtsieze you, than play goyf or Bob, and start bashing you then play a rhino GG
Filter lands are bad?
That's why they're all $10+ a piece and nobody ever wants to trade them. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
How isn't Spell Pierce good early game? It counters everything but creatures. This means artifacts, enchantments, instants and sorceries. It might be bad in your meta, but not in mine.
Anyway, I was implying that the deck list should replace its one Pierce with another Spell Snare. But let me guess, it stinks too, right?
It seems a lot of people aren't aware of how fetching works and the idea of thinning the deck. There have been tons of mathematical models showing that only the most balls to the aggro aggro decks MIGHT benefit from this...by turn 16 = )
Once again, I'm pretty sure that the majority of modern magic players know, "How fetching works" and the benefits from them.
In every other scenario the lifeloss is much more relevant. Here is one of many articles that explains this after doing more than 1,000,000 simulations. Hope some people can learn that thinning isn't a thing.http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096
A computer sim program?
That's what you're basing all of your opinions on? One computer program and the fact that all decks are completely the same? It says right in the article about how he put limitations on land numbers, didn't take consideration into how the deck was played, or even what kind of deck was being simulated.
All I've got to say is that fetches have proven themselves to me. Pulling 1-4 land out of my deck each game(and getting to shuffle after each fetch) helps me out a lot, regardless of what a sim program says. And until my actual, physical playtesting proves me wrong, I'm going to stick with what's working for me and continue to suggest it to the masses.
Well you were right with your idea of thoughtseize fetch/shock and bitterblossom killing us very quickly. However that's more of a reason not to play fetches and shocks than a reason not to play thoughtseize. Secluded glen, darkslick shores, river of tears, etc. can be just as effective as those for our deck. Duress, on the other hand, is not nearly as effective as thoughtseize.
Fetchlands are very useful, I don't think anyone would argue against that. What that simulation shows is that they are not useful for the sole purpose of deck thinning. Removing one land from your deck is just not worth 1 life if that's all you're getting out of it. The kinds of decks that article doesn't account for are the ones that need the fixing fetches provide (especially with shocks and old duals) and the shuffle effect (which is generally only useful for decks that can see their top card(s) fairly often), or decks that need land in their graveyard for whatever reason (goyf, dredge, delve, etc.). Which really is most decks in modern and legacy, but not all of them. Faeries has a stable enough mana base that it doesn't absolutely need fetches (if it's just UB), most modern decks don't really have that without using taplands. But if the simple effect of just pulling a land out of your deck during a game was really that valuable evolving wilds would be a staple in standard where a land coming in tapped isn't nearly as painful as it is in modern.
Good response! Doubt he'll listen to reason though = (
"I've been thinking of making this deck" (meaning you haven't made it yet), "and I've been testing Quickling..." (so have you made the deck or not? Somehow I doubt you've been "testing" Quickling, maybe running around the idea in your head). Funny how every card always "tests great" for everyone hahaha
Quickling is pretty good, just not here. Its more of a delver+faeries card.
I haven't been testing faeries that much (messing around with a budget shamans deck for a friend) but I've been getting in a lot of modern small events. Kinda showing the deck off cause people dont expect it...and there is usually someone who wants to build it after I display the deck. Thinking of going to 3 spellskites for infect boggles and burn though. I have a monastery seige in board also but it never seems necessary because there aren't enough rock decks where I play.
(As an aside, who picked up promo spellstutter sprites last year when they dropped to like 5 a piece? These look too cool and I wish the judge promo cliques weren't an arm and a leg)
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
For now I'd like to populate the sideboard with broad answers instead of deck-specific silver bullets until the meta settles. I'm currently lacking Sowers and Chalices. The number of times I've sided out the one-of Peppersmoke in the main tells me that it probably does not belong in the 75, but I'm trying it out.
---GR Tron---
In
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Lotv
2 Negate
Out
3 Mana Leak
1 Peppersmoke
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Spell Snare
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
---Junk---
In
1 Deathmark
1 Scion
1 EE
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Liliana
Out
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Peppersmoke
2 Thoughtseize
1 IoK
---Storm---
In
1 Disfigure
2 Negate
2 Liliana
Out
1 Peppersmoke
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
2 Cryptic Command
---Burn---
In
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Disfigure
3 Liliana
Out
4 Bitterblossom
2 Thoughtseize
1 Peppersmoke
---Affinity---
In
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Negate
1 Disfigure
Out
1 Go for the Throat
2 Thoughtseize
2 IoK
---Twin---
In
2 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Liliana
Out
2 Spell Snare
1 Peppersmoke
2 Cryptic Command
---TarmoTwin---
In
1 Deathmark
2 Liliana
Out
1 Peppersmoke
2 Cryptic Command
---Scapeshift---
In
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Liliana
Out
1 Peppersmoke
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
3 Mana Leak
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Inquisition
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
How often do 3x liliana help you out? I was actually thinking of cutting back to 2 in sb myself. Also you could use another Scion of Oona depending on how often you wish it were in hand (that having 3 mana up is a problem sometimes though, so take this with a grain of salt)
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
How often do 3x liliana help you out? I was actually thinking of cutting back to 2 in sb myself. Also you could use another Scion of Oona depending on how often you wish it were in hand (that having 3 mana up is a problem sometimes though, so take this with a grain of salt)
To be perfectly honest, I've barely tried the Lilies, they're the newest addition. I've heard so many good things about her that I want to give her a spin. Two might be the correct number though, but I want to go a bit heavier at first to get to know her well.
What I'm most in need of feedback for isn't really the sideboard itself, it's how I side in and out. I haven't had the chance to face all of these decks yet. Trying to arrange matchups against T1/T2 decks on 'trice is hard when we aren't regarded as one ourselves :|
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
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Shouta yasooka begs to differ. And he did great during the pro tour with UB Faeries (4 mutavaults, 3 Sunken ruins, 25 lands). Sunken ruins finds its use in mana bases that would like to support both liliana and cryptic command. Besides, I have run one for a very long time and it isn't as nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678So I've been admiring modern fae for some time and I think I finally want to actually give it a shot, but before I buy the cards, I was wondering if I could get some recommendations.
So my major question is how good is adding a third color to the classic UB deck? I understand fae runs 25 or 26 lands (is one of these more standard than the other?) and that you need fetches to add a third color which means adding shock lands. With the amount of life loss from Bitterblossom and thoughtseize, fetches don't seem all that good to me here. I just read an article where a pro claimed anyone who ran fetches in fae was dead wrong and while I think that could be going a bit far, I get his point. I get adding red could mean lightning bolts or electrolyze and white means chiefly path to exile as well as huge SB options. (I've seen Green as well, but abrupt decay alone doesn't quite pull me in as much for some reason. I guess there's goyf too, but I dunno. Couldn't you just ran Tasigur? Am I making a huge oversight there?). What is the general consensus on this? Does straight UB get more results than UBx?
Also, I know there are two different main routes for the deck being scion of oona or no. What's the preferred method in the current meta? I'm aware this changes whether you put a more equipment based slot or two in the deck or a more planeswalker based version. I could see Liliana of the Veil being the main walker and the swords being the main ones for equipment. Other than Feast and Famine for tempo, which is the second preferred sword? War and Peace or light and shadow for life? Or fire and ice for damage? Is one of these routes (swords or lili) strictly better than the other? Personally, it looks like lili is stronger, but I'm not sure I want to spend 100 a pop for the 2 of them. I feel similar about the green splash mainly because of goyf's price. I'm not playing budget, but...Well come one. It's just a lot. Especially if I did both.
Lastly, I keep reading about how fae just die horribly to decks that are very fast aggro, mainly zoo. I heard that to a lesser extent about affinity. Burn?
How winnable are these matchups?
Thanks guys! I really appreciate your input.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Against affinity SSS shines again, game 1 can be tricky but winnable for sure, and with hurkyl's recall and more removal post SB we are fine.
Heavy creature aggro decks is mostly the problem like zoo or goblins (which simply destroyed me last FNM)
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
PS : No I cant just replace those 6 fetches with 6 islands, because my deck does have another color.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Hey! Welcome to the thread.
A third colour should add something to your gameplan. Goyf acts as a stabilizer, while burn can finish games more quickly. White is probably the least colour you would like to add. Splashes really hurt matches against burn and affinity, so you would like to get something in return. Goyf stabilizes against aggro, for example. Splashing should really be considered, if you want to go for it. Tasigur does not come out in turn 2. That difference is huge against aggro.
Due to high price tag and impopularity of the deck in general, only green splashes have succeeded so far to put up some results, though the far majority of decks are straight UB. UB is a very solid starts and it has to be seen how much improvement you will get from colour splashing.
Swords and lilly add card quality and power to the deck and the deck becomes more midrangey. Without them, the deck is more flashy. It highly depends on your playstyle and what you feel comfortable with. Sword(less) and Liliana(less) lists have all put up results in bigger sized tournaments (mainly PTQ, GPT >100 players). Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Feast and Famine are exceptionally strong, but also consider Batterskull. You can run Jace Beleren, but any other planeswalker is immensely bad. 4 mana is the mistbind clique and cryptic command territory and they are much better than all planeswalkers that can slot in there.
Scion of Oona can be added, in Spain people have t8'ed some big events with them, as did some in the US. Usually, 2-3 are added.
Big zoo is manageable. Small zoo, one drop zoo, especially when they play burning-tree emissary, are really, really[ hard to beat. Adjust your sidedeck accordingly.
Affinity and especially burn are surprisingly comfortable matchups, though you really need to understand the ins and outs.
Affinity: Spell snare is huge. Bitterblossom tokens kill almost every creature they throw at you. Mutavault is one of the few blockers that can naturally block an etched champion. Spellstutter sprite acts both as a counter everything card and a 2-mana removal spell. Faeries really have a lot of tools to tackle affinity.
Burn: For a deck that plays bitterblossom, we do exceptionally well against burn. The painless manabase from the straight UB yields you them needing up to two more burn spells to finish you. Spellstutter sprites can basically counter everything from their deck, while they are also nice chumpers. I strongly advice Liliana of the Veil against burn.
Splashing a colour weakens your chances against these two. Green (goyf!) would at least guarantee you some early staying power against aggro, while white adds nothing for you in the equation.
Really bad matchups are GR Tron, BW Tokens and 1 drop zoo/gruul zoo (scions may help against tron and tokens).
Really good matchups are anything coloured UWR, Twin and most combo decks (scions are weaker against twin and combo decks).
This is about it . Enjoy the deck!
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678Thanks! Glad to be on it =).
Okay, That's kinda how I was viewing it too. That's a fair point. I think I'll take your advise and go for the straight UB to start.
Right. So, you'd say swords vs lili and scion or no is all just personal choice? None are seen to be generally better (in the current meta)?
I see. That's sorta what I've been seeing across the board. Does the BUG variant do significantly better against little zoo?
What's the GBx MU like?
The other thing I meant to ask about was vedalken shackles. Can they replace the sword/ walker slot? Also, if you chose to run them, do you still need threads of disloyalty? Does this variant improve our bad MUs any?
Thanks! I think I will. As soon as I go and actually purchase the last of the cards I need anyway.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Yeah, and it makes sense for that reason. There are plenty of valid reasons to run fetches, but running them purely to thin out your deck and for no other reason in something like mono-B? The one guy above seemed to be arguing that it was good solely for the thinning, which is the only thing I was arguing against. Splashing a third color is really debatable. The meta is still adjusting itself right now, partially just going back to pre-treasure cruise times, but also adjusting for the lack of pod. Because of that, there are a lot of debates right now about what we should and shouldn't be doing for this meta. Goyf is rarely a bad thing, and abrupt decay is certainly in a good spot right now. Path is great, but white splash is mostly for the sideboard options. Red gives us burn and some decent sideboard cards. Traditionally, though, straight UB has gotten results more often. The green splash is probably the most viable if you do want to splash, and is the only one to put up results, iirc.
Scion of Oona is in a good spot with the way the meta is looking right now, imo. It blanks a lot of cards in a spot-removal heavy meta, and it allows us to be a bit more aggressive, which is a bit more viable, I think, now that the overall meta has slowed down a touch. That doesn't mean that you have to go all in with 4 of them or nothing, though. Running two or three is perfectly viable and has gotten good results in the past. Feast and famine is great and batterskull is an option. A lot of us were using fire and ice, but I think a lot of that was to keep up with the treasure cruise-fueled decks like delver, so a switch might be in order, now, but it's still always a strong card. What would be best probably depends on your meta. Maybe even just a second feast and famine, or even just no swords at all. I haven't run lily in a while, but she might just be poised for a comeback with pod and treasure cruise gone.
As for matchups, burn is burn. Our matchup with it isn't horrible game 1, but it's not amazing, either. Games 2 and three are a bit more in our favor with solid counter magic and disfigure which kills all of the few creatures they play. Having a third color with shocks and fetches will make that particular matchup a bit harder, especially on game 1.
Affinity isn't actually that bad for us. Yeah, if they vomit their hand all over the table turn 1 it's gonna be hard to come back from that, but that's true of most any deck. Spell snare, hurkyll's recall, and our removal suite make it a pretty solid match for us considering that, without their two drops, they can't get through our creatures.
Big zoo isn't bad, but small zoo sucks. We just have trouble with decks that are packed with a bunch of good one-drop creatures. You're gonna have to dedicate some sideboard space to beat them if they're prevalent in your meta. Even then it can take some luck in my experience. Same with GR tron.
We're pretty great against any kind of combo and UWR control as we can generally out-tempo either one.
I've gotten mixed results against GBx, but I haven't gotten to test against it a lot. My initial reaction is that it's a relatively even matchup, but scion does a lot to push it in our favor. Saying no to them abrupt decaying bitterblossom feels great, and the lord effect helps if they're playing lingering souls.
Good response! Doubt he'll listen to reason though = (
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Zero percent. I love the card too but it's a terrible modern card.
"I've been thinking of making this deck" (meaning you haven't made it yet), "and I've been testing Quickling..." (so have you made the deck or not? Somehow I doubt you've been "testing" Quickling, maybe running around the idea in your head). Funny how every card always "tests great" for everyone hahaha
Have you really tested it? I have when it came it out and it turned out to be horrible everytime I drew one.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678I haven't been testing faeries that much (messing around with a budget shamans deck for a friend) but I've been getting in a lot of modern small events. Kinda showing the deck off cause people dont expect it...and there is usually someone who wants to build it after I display the deck. Thinking of going to 3 spellskites for infect boggles and burn though. I have a monastery seige in board also but it never seems necessary because there aren't enough rock decks where I play.
(As an aside, who picked up promo spellstutter sprites last year when they dropped to like 5 a piece? These look too cool and I wish the judge promo cliques weren't an arm and a leg)
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Bitterblossom
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Mistbind Clique
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Snapcaster Mage
Counters (9)
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
Disruption (4)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Removal (5)
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Peppersmoke
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Liliana of the VEil
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Scion of Oona
2 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Deathmark
1 Disfigure
2 Shadow of Doubt
For now I'd like to populate the sideboard with broad answers instead of deck-specific silver bullets until the meta settles. I'm currently lacking Sowers and Chalices. The number of times I've sided out the one-of Peppersmoke in the main tells me that it probably does not belong in the 75, but I'm trying it out.
---GR Tron---
In
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Lotv
2 Negate
Out
3 Mana Leak
1 Peppersmoke
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Spell Snare
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
---Junk---
In
1 Deathmark
1 Scion
1 EE
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Liliana
Out
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Peppersmoke
2 Thoughtseize
1 IoK
---Storm---
In
1 Disfigure
2 Negate
2 Liliana
Out
1 Peppersmoke
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
2 Cryptic Command
---Burn---
In
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Disfigure
3 Liliana
Out
4 Bitterblossom
2 Thoughtseize
1 Peppersmoke
---Affinity---
In
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Negate
1 Disfigure
Out
1 Go for the Throat
2 Thoughtseize
2 IoK
---Twin---
In
2 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Liliana
Out
2 Spell Snare
1 Peppersmoke
2 Cryptic Command
---TarmoTwin---
In
1 Deathmark
2 Liliana
Out
1 Peppersmoke
2 Cryptic Command
---Scapeshift---
In
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Liliana
Out
1 Peppersmoke
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
3 Mana Leak
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Inquisition
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
What I'm most in need of feedback for isn't really the sideboard itself, it's how I side in and out. I haven't had the chance to face all of these decks yet. Trying to arrange matchups against T1/T2 decks on 'trice is hard when we aren't regarded as one ourselves :|
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'