I haven't played Modern in over 6 months, but it looks like we'll have a small local here next month. Is it a given now that Serum Visions and Think Twice are not good any more? I remember playing at least a few of each before, but not builds seem to have them now.
I run 3 serum visions and thinking of making it 4 but as for telling time I'm torn between it. As much as I love the card I feel its spot is better filled with another choice.
Now that DTT and TC are banned what other, if any, deep digs are we running?
Forbidden alchemy is still here. Monastery Siege is here. Mystical Teachings is here.
But I'll be honest. I don;t think we need cards to dig for large amounts of answers. Using that mana to play the answers we have, and to play efficient answers that accrue value is worthwhile. Against decks like Jund, or Junk, we need card quality over quantity. Vs things like zoo or affinity, we need our board wipes. Against tron, our counterspells.
I have decided against playing any one mana cantrips, having my card draw on spells like cruel ultimatum, electrolyze, remand, and cryptic, combined with monastery siege. And I do feel like that works, very well at times. It is a shame we don't have dig anymore, we don;t have esper charm, we dont have sphinx's revelation, but I think this deck plays well enough without them.
not completely sold personally on monastery siege, reason being that technically speaking its card disadvantage in return for card selection/quality. The reasoning for this is because it costs you 1 card to play so so far -1 card, then you draw an additional card on your turn but immediately have to discard a card, so so far still -1 cards. I can appreciate a good looting engine but I think i'd rather it at least keep my number of cards in hand at 0 card change instead of -1, at least in a control deck. So I think in combo decks it might be better because you only need 2 or so specific cards to win, but in a control deck i'm less sold because we just need a way to draw more answers, not necessarily better ones.
Also now that pod and delver are nerfed, i really am starting to think mana leak is getting a lot better. before pod would ramp and quickly make leak useless, and delver would play so many 1 mana spells leak was just god awful, but now jund/junk should play some pretty leakable targets and so i think leak is ok to play like 4 or so copies of, i've also been keen on trying out like at least 1 murderous cut because i think now since leak is so much better, its less of an upgrade to go for logic knot than it is to go from terminate to murderous cut. this is because going from 2 mana almost hard counter to -> 2 mana hard counter is probably less good than 2 mana kill spell, to potentially 1 mana kill spell. What do you all think about this?
Just got back from Friday night magic, went 2-2.
First round was storm(1-2), very hard match up. He went off first game, went straight to my sideboard and pulled in 1 slaughter games which eventually won me game 2. Slaughter games, naming grapeshot, snapcaster, slaughtergames naming empty the warrens, he scoops. Game 3 he goes off with 2 early empty the warrens and i drew no answers.
Second round was UR twin(2-0). First game was beautiful, countered his stuff, killed his stuff, discard really helped, resolved a cruel ultimatum, won.
Third round was scapeshift and i was scared, but i went 2-1. first game i cast a cruel ultimatum, got izzet charmed and he went off. second game i brought in shadow of doubt slaughter games and countersquall it worked really nicely and ripped scapeshift and burned him to death. Last game did the same thing except no slaughtergames, just countermagic and another cruel ultimatum.
Fourth round, Doran, the siege tower went (0-2) Bad draws, got womped.
all in all, felt really good about my deck, and grixis and thought about all of you guys when i was resolving those cruel ultimatums, so dont ever give up!!
Jace is sick, iffy about suffer the past, would like more remand. Discard is good. Cant afford CC's. Would like 2 slaughter games in side. Counter squall is great in those matchups where you can get away with bolt snap-bolting, counter squall, snap-squalling, making 2 point life swings, tar pits, minute life loss really adds up in the long run, lol.
Jumping in the bandwagon here, more demoralizing is a cruel ultimatum into a snapcaster cruel ultimatum with the snapcaster you just picked from your gy
Which in turn draws you into another cruel ultimatum
22 lands seems quite ballsy.
In addition to the lack of board wipes, its definitely interesting, though I would not have guessed it would do so well just by looking at it.
The list could easily run another land and maybe another delve spell (especially if it dropped the Serum Visions and went all in on Thought Scour). It looks super cool and a direction that I want to take my lists (although with fewer creatures).
i like how he used tasigur, but the list doesnt look like a control list at all with 9 creatures. I'd try 2 copies of tasigur MB in place of the banned DTT first.
Yeah tasigur seems like something we definitely want to be playing, I might even go back to playing 2 forbidden alch's to fuel him and like a murderous cut or something. it doesn't seem like the same as dig through time because it doesn't get us counterspells etc unless ofc we get to use it, which is a little slower than dig, but still a really great card and its just hard to not include him in the deck since a 4/5 is just a huge body and he's so efficient manawise since we don't wanna tap down low in our controlling strategy. i'm really not sure how many copies to play since if i wanna play 2, at that point i'm thinking maybe to cut the batterskull for him, but then batterskull being one of our only lifegain tools it just seems too important a card to cut in our deck since sometimes u just have to gain life. So maybe i'll just play 1 for now and see if i could use anymore copies.
I still think guerrilla tactics could be a solid card in the new modern format since i'm expecting just a ton of liliana decks and that really is one of our biggest weaknesses in that matchup. If anyone else has tried that card out let me know how it went.
also tasigur is pretty sweet vs. thrun btw, and he makes our batterskull better in that sense too :).
I still think guerrilla tactics could be a solid card in the new modern format since i'm expecting just a ton of liliana decks and that really is one of our biggest weaknesses in that matchup. If anyone else has tried that card out let me know how it went.
Perhaps it's a bit cute? I think a card like Dreadbore covers a lot more of the format. I won't disagree that Guerrilla Tactics is a Liliana blow-out.
I'm probably going to be cutting Cruel Ultimatum. It's great but it's a ton of mana for an effect that doesn't always win the game (it just usually wins the game). I'll post a list in the next day or two.
I still think guerrilla tactics could be a solid card in the new modern format since i'm expecting just a ton of liliana decks and that really is one of our biggest weaknesses in that matchup. If anyone else has tried that card out let me know how it went.
Perhaps it's a bit cute? I think a card like Dreadbore covers a lot more of the format. I won't disagree that Guerrilla Tactics is a Liliana blow-out.
I'm probably going to be cutting Cruel Ultimatum. It's great but it's a ton of mana for an effect that doesn't always win the game (it just usually wins the game). I'll post a list in the next day or two.
Without Cruel Ultimatum do you not just become a grixis control deck? Simply asking.
cruel control has kinda been synonymous with grixis control for a long time now. Although, I guess that could be a distinction to question.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
yh idk, dreadbore seems like it would mostly just be sided in vs the same matchup, I guess its more flexible as you say so I would agree with that its hard for me to decide but I think the roof on guerrilla tactics just seems so high vs jund/junk. It just seems like they always have the liliana whenever I play them, and that its always the card that if i lose to them, I could say liliana was mostly responsible. The fact that it can also take care of a bob is also kind of a big plus as that card needs to die asap when its played. But I think the thing that puts it over the fence for me is that you can be tapped out and still deal with their liliana in a positive way if you have a tactics in hand and lili is usually cast when you're tapped out/low. Like when i think about it, if I tap out to damnation their thrun or some other board the ONE thing that would be the most punishing card for them to resolve would be a lily. Just the fact that they lose 2 cards (invest mana) and you only lose 1 (and its free to cast) i think is just so big in a matchup as grindy as jund/junk where its all about card advantage.
Also, this thread got moved i noticed to the "developing competitive" from modern deck creation so thats good news :).
So I've been lurking around here for quite a bit and I thought it was time to contribute to the thread. Modern night was tonight and I came in first place with this list.
Game 1: Counter summer blooms and bolt Azusa. Opponent resolves two Prime Times, but I had terminates for them. Win with the Creep.
Side in thoughtseize and slaughter games
Game 2: She drops land and I go thoughtseize, thoughtseize, snapcaster, thoughtseize talk about cruel lol. Opponent goes for a summoner's pact on my end step and I bounce her simic growth chamber so she can't pay for it on the upkeep.
1-0
Round 2 Dredge
Game 1: Grindfest. I manage to counter and remove his threats long enough to win with the Creep. Opponent could have won by using rite of consumption on a death's shadow, but he did not see that line.
Side in batterskull
Game 2: Batterskull does work and takes it home after countering and bouncing all the things.
2-0
Round 3 UWR Delver
We are both undefeated and decide to split but play for fun.
Game 1: I counter and remove all the threats I can. I am at 2 life with a Clique and Tar Pit and he is at 8 life with a Young Pyromancer in play. I attack with tar pit he casts lightning helix at me and I countersquall it
side in batterskull, thoughtseize and night of souls betrayal.
Game 2: I resolve double batterskull GG.
3-0
I've played this deck since it was the five color version in standard. I was testing the Steam Augurys and they seem alright. I had molten rain in the side but took them out due to the prevalence of combo in my meta.
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I don't really modern, but I haven't taken Reflecting pool out of my control deck since lorwyn came out, Right now I am running a version with 4 Electrolyze and 4 Glimpse the Unthinkable, I have enough damage to kill an opponent, and enough mill to kill an opponent, I just added 2 Wurmcoils and 2 Grave Titans as finishers, I use Cruel Ultimatum as card advantage, Guess I need to take the treasure cruises back out. I really love Cruel Control, I want to see it come back. (into competitive)
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I'm running telling time for now, always was using serum visions.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Now that DTT and TC are banned what other, if any, deep digs are we running?
UUBBBRR
But I'll be honest. I don;t think we need cards to dig for large amounts of answers. Using that mana to play the answers we have, and to play efficient answers that accrue value is worthwhile. Against decks like Jund, or Junk, we need card quality over quantity. Vs things like zoo or affinity, we need our board wipes. Against tron, our counterspells.
I have decided against playing any one mana cantrips, having my card draw on spells like cruel ultimatum, electrolyze, remand, and cryptic, combined with monastery siege. And I do feel like that works, very well at times. It is a shame we don't have dig anymore, we don;t have esper charm, we dont have sphinx's revelation, but I think this deck plays well enough without them.
Also now that pod and delver are nerfed, i really am starting to think mana leak is getting a lot better. before pod would ramp and quickly make leak useless, and delver would play so many 1 mana spells leak was just god awful, but now jund/junk should play some pretty leakable targets and so i think leak is ok to play like 4 or so copies of, i've also been keen on trying out like at least 1 murderous cut because i think now since leak is so much better, its less of an upgrade to go for logic knot than it is to go from terminate to murderous cut. this is because going from 2 mana almost hard counter to -> 2 mana hard counter is probably less good than 2 mana kill spell, to potentially 1 mana kill spell. What do you all think about this?
First round was storm(1-2), very hard match up. He went off first game, went straight to my sideboard and pulled in 1 slaughter games which eventually won me game 2. Slaughter games, naming grapeshot, snapcaster, slaughtergames naming empty the warrens, he scoops. Game 3 he goes off with 2 early empty the warrens and i drew no answers.
Second round was UR twin(2-0). First game was beautiful, countered his stuff, killed his stuff, discard really helped, resolved a cruel ultimatum, won.
Third round was scapeshift and i was scared, but i went 2-1. first game i cast a cruel ultimatum, got izzet charmed and he went off. second game i brought in shadow of doubt slaughter games and countersquall it worked really nicely and ripped scapeshift and burned him to death. Last game did the same thing except no slaughtergames, just countermagic and another cruel ultimatum.
Fourth round, Doran, the siege tower went (0-2) Bad draws, got womped.
all in all, felt really good about my deck, and grixis and thought about all of you guys when i was resolving those cruel ultimatums, so dont ever give up!!
My list
Land 26
3 Flooded strand(Soon to be deltas)
2 Bloodstained MIre
1 Polluted delta
2 steam vents
2 watery grave
1 blood crypt
2 drowned catacomb
2 sulfur falls
2 island
3 swamp
1 mountain
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 creeping tar pit
1 reflecting pool
1 shivan reef
Instants
4 bolt
3 spell snare
2 mana leak
2 remand
1 logic knot
2 terminate
2 think twice
1 murderous cut
2 electrolyze
1 suffer the past
4 inquisition of kozilek
1 duress
2 damnation
2 cruel ultimatum
Creatures
3 snapcaster mage
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
Planeswalkers
1 jace, architect of thought
3 spreading seas
3 dragon's claw
2 rakdos charm
2 countersquall
1 slaughter games
1 anger of the gods
1 hibernation
1 shadow of doubt
1 engineered explosives
Jace is sick, iffy about suffer the past, would like more remand. Discard is good. Cant afford CC's. Would like 2 slaughter games in side. Counter squall is great in those matchups where you can get away with bolt snap-bolting, counter squall, snap-squalling, making 2 point life swings, tar pits, minute life loss really adds up in the long run, lol.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=79263
In addition to the lack of board wipes, its definitely interesting, though I would not have guessed it would do so well just by looking at it.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
I still think guerrilla tactics could be a solid card in the new modern format since i'm expecting just a ton of liliana decks and that really is one of our biggest weaknesses in that matchup. If anyone else has tried that card out let me know how it went.
also tasigur is pretty sweet vs. thrun btw, and he makes our batterskull better in that sense too :).
Perhaps it's a bit cute? I think a card like Dreadbore covers a lot more of the format. I won't disagree that Guerrilla Tactics is a Liliana blow-out.
I'm probably going to be cutting Cruel Ultimatum. It's great but it's a ton of mana for an effect that doesn't always win the game (it just usually wins the game). I'll post a list in the next day or two.
Without Cruel Ultimatum do you not just become a grixis control deck? Simply asking.
UUBBBRR
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Also, this thread got moved i noticed to the "developing competitive" from modern deck creation so thats good news :).
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Malice
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Rune Snag
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Grixis Charm
3 Spell Snare
3 Countersquall
3 Terminate
3 Electrolyze
2 Steam Augury
2 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Damnation
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
2 Batterskull
2 Slaughter Games
2 Counterflux
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Thoughtseize
Match-ups
Round 1 Bloom Titan
Game 1: Counter summer blooms and bolt Azusa. Opponent resolves two Prime Times, but I had terminates for them. Win with the Creep.
Side in thoughtseize and slaughter games
Game 2: She drops land and I go thoughtseize, thoughtseize, snapcaster, thoughtseize talk about cruel lol. Opponent goes for a summoner's pact on my end step and I bounce her simic growth chamber so she can't pay for it on the upkeep.
1-0
Round 2 Dredge
Game 1: Grindfest. I manage to counter and remove his threats long enough to win with the Creep. Opponent could have won by using rite of consumption on a death's shadow, but he did not see that line.
Side in batterskull
Game 2: Batterskull does work and takes it home after countering and bouncing all the things.
2-0
Round 3 UWR Delver
We are both undefeated and decide to split but play for fun.
Game 1: I counter and remove all the threats I can. I am at 2 life with a Clique and Tar Pit and he is at 8 life with a Young Pyromancer in play. I attack with tar pit he casts lightning helix at me and I countersquall it
side in batterskull, thoughtseize and night of souls betrayal.
Game 2: I resolve double batterskull GG.
3-0
I've played this deck since it was the five color version in standard. I was testing the Steam Augurys and they seem alright. I had molten rain in the side but took them out due to the prevalence of combo in my meta.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas