I haven't reached the sideboard part yet, but thanks for the info!
And yes, I would love to add the ratings to cards. I didn't even know you could do that, and have just seen it under smileys. Would it be okay for me to add ratings and everyone saying if they agree? I probably won't do all of them right that way.
EDIT: just added ratings!
DOUBLE EDIT: Also added the progress of the editing at the top of the primer! Do people like that, or does it look bad?
I personally like the way the names and ratings align at the left, that's why I did it like that. I can get rid of the space underneath that, to clear the emptiness a bit. I'll experiment with it tomorrow, maybe I prefer it before or after the name!
I can definitely create a different categorization, like 1-drops, 2-drops etc. I think that's a nice thing to do!
Oops! Completely forgot about the other Ooze, haha! I'll add that as well.
I can make a short 'bad card section' after all the good cards in each category. The reason why I made this section is so that new players know the reason why certain cards aren't played. They don't really need a rating, since they are just bad, but what I've experienced in the thread is that a lot of new players come here and ask about cards we've talked about 5 times already. To put that discussion in 2-3 sentences in the primer should clear things up easily for them.
The bad card section isn't about the rating, it's about why they're bad.
Just added Mutagenic Growth, added a lot of bad card choices, and did a big chunk of the sideboard cards.
Does anyone know more lands or noncreature spells that are bad? Wild Defiance used to be played a long time ago, do people have experience with it? Anything else I've missed?
Note that the sideboard section is far from done, but i've managed to do a big part of it. I've also deleted the space between card name and description to make it more compact.
EDIT: also changed the Leatherback/Rhonas in the basic build from 4/1 to 3/2.
Okay, a lot of info here.
First of all, thank you for the input, I'm working on it right now.
Secondly: I'm putting some cards in the sideboard section, some in the mainboard, and some in both (Scavenging Ooze). I put Nature's Way in the side under removal, should I put it under main? Both?
What do you think about putting cards there twice? (I'm a bit torn about Thrun, the Last Troll and wether I should put him in main, side or both.)
I was also planning on making a 'to be tested'-section, with cards like Merfolk Branchwalker, Tireless Tracker, (Slaughterhorn? I know people used to test this card, but I don't remember how good/bad it was,) Reclamation Sage, Prowling Serpopard?, Shapers' Sanctuary, and probably more.
Also, sorry but I'm not moving Old-Growth Dryads away from bad choice. It is so bad against so many decks, even if I were to move it, it'd go to sideboard since there are very little decks where you want to have this card. Not trying to be mean or anything, just explaining why.
The imput of cards I forgot really helps, thank you so much for that! Keep them coming!
And thanks for the compliments, I'm working really hard on this and it's so nice to hear that you like it!
EDIT: YoungQuakerBoy, can you elaborate a bit on why those cards are good in the side, and against which decks?
"Mono green". What is this? I was looking up the modern metagame, and I came across this stuff. Has anyone played against this? Also, is there a primer for it?
Thank you so much for the detailed list of cards!! I've already moved Thrun, the Last Troll and Nature's Way, and deleted the double Scavenging Ooze. Also added Deglamer to Unravel the Aether. I don't think I have a lot of time to work on it today and am unsure about the weekend, but I'll try my best to keep the updates going! I definitely want to finish the sideboard soon, so that we can move on to other builds and splashes!
Also, just to be sure: is it okay if I delete the 'tournament results/video' section? It's very outdated and doesn't give good information about the iteration of the deck we're playing right now. I want all information in the primer to be relevant and useful.
Okay, small update!
I deleted the tournament results and the video.
I completed the sideboard section.
I rearranged the order of sideboard cards, so that the most popular ones are at the top for each section.
I slightly changed the examples of cards in the text block under the basic list, so that the creatures and removal cited are actually popular and relevant.
(Does anyone know what the consensus is about cards like Harmonize, Eldritch Evolution, Act of Aggression and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar? Those are the only cards I still need to add, if I didn't forget any.)
If I didn't miss anything, I'd say that the card choices part is completed and we can move on to other builds! I prefer to start with mono green varieties, and then go to splashes.
I already have enough information about the CCompany build, but need more on revolt builds (and Hardened Scales builds if anyone still plays it). Does anyone have a list I can use, along with info on the card choices?
EDIT: XmalkuthX, I think I can move Tusker back to relevant options, it sounds reasonable enough. Even though there are better options most of the time, the fact that is still used with success is good enough for me.
DOUBLE EDIT: Added Aether Vial to bad card choices.
Great work! I'm glad someone is taking the time to do this.
Some comments/suggestions:
Rather than "Bad" cards, I would rename the section "Sub-optimal" choices. Many of the cards listed there are still decent cards for our deck (e.g., Garruk's Companion if you don't have Avatar of the Resolute). They just aren't as good as other options.
In the Prey Upon description, I would include a comparison to Nature's Way since that is the main board card it is closest to. It still has the advantage of costing less mana than Nature's Way.
Obstinate Baloth - I don't think this belongs in the life gain section. As you state, it's primary purpose is to counter discard from Liliana, et al. Life gain is just a bonus. Perhaps it should go in the "Others" section.
Regarding cards you asked about: Harmonize - I believe this was excluded on the basis that it costs 4 mana. Eldritch Evolution - The general consensus was that you might as well just put in the 3 CMC creature that you were going to search for. It works well for toolbox decks, but not for Stompy. Act of Aggression - Sideboard card useful against anyone that drops large game-enders. You steal it and use their game-ender to win. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - Perhaps in a Hardened Scales version of the deck? Otherwise, I think the consensus was no, too slow. Kalonian Tusker - I agree with keeping this in the main board section. I'm actually still running 2 in my list.
Thank you for the detailed suggestions! It really helps me out on feeling in which direction certain things need to go, since I'm mostly following my gut feeling on how it should be. I'll edit it later today!
Secondly, I have put all the cards in either 'good/sideboard' or 'bad', do we have a need for a 'to be tested' section? I'm mostly thinking of cards like Merfolk Branchwalker, Shapers' Sanctuary and Tireless Tracker, but other than that I don't think there are many cards need to be tested. (Ghalta, Primal Hunger? I'm thinking it might be good as a 1-of, but that's all speculation of course.)
Also, at the start of the primer it says "do not suggest 5 drops, 4 drops are stretching it but might be worth it" (that's what the original primer said.) Would it be reasonable to change that to 4-drops? I feel like we should change it, but I want to hear your opinions as well.
About Obstinate Baloth, you're right. I just ordered it in such a way that all the cards that gain life are put together. (Even though we don't put it in our sideboard to fight Burn, it IS pretty good against them.)
I've already put Kalonian Tusker back to main choices. (I was not sure whether I should give it a 2.5 or a 3, but I feel like it's closer to 2.5 since it's not resilient or has evasion/hate)
EDIT: Added Wilt-Leaf Liege to sideboard, and edited everything that has been suggested.
Extra question though: against which decks is Bow of Nylea good against? I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to this card, and I want new players to understand it as well as possible.
DOUBLE EDIT: I just added the Collected Stompany list!! I tried to put in some useful info about the deck, and some of the adjustments made. I have a question though: YoungQuakerBoy, the list you gave me is about a year old, how outdated is this? What would you change to it? One of the things I would change is play a number of Rhonases, and slightly change the sideboard (remove Spellskite, Back to Nature and Reclamation Sage). You have more experience with this build, am I right about this? I assume the sideboard is also for your local meta, and not a general sideboard.
Why is everyone playing four copies of Dryad Militant in the mono green build? I tried replacing it with my third Scavenging Ooze, since I always sideboard it in anyways. It works fine so far.
The main reason is that we want to be as aggressive as possible, while obstructing the opponent as much as possible. Dryad Militant is one of the strongest 1-drops we have access to, and we definitely need at LEAST 8 1-drops (most people prefer 10). Experiment One is a definite 4-of, no doubt. Other than that, we want as much power as possible, and the only strong 1-drops with 2 power are Dryad Militant and Kessig Prowler. (I'll leave suboptimal card choices out of this for simplicity's sake.) We also have Narnam Renegade, his +1/+1 counter is unreliable for a Stompy build without fetches. Dryad Militant's ability is a lot stronger than it looks at first glance. It hinders so many decks, and that kind of obstruction game 1 can be very beneficial for us. UR Storm, UR Delver, Grixis Death's Shadow, Dredge, Instant Reanimator, UW control, UWx Midrange/Jeskai Nahiri, any deck that runs Tarmogoyf/Grim Flayer (Jund, Abzan, Bushwacker, Zoo), they all experience significant hindrance from us playing a playset of Dryad Militant. It makes Snapcaster Mage worthless, which is normally one of the strongest cards in a control build. But to remove at least a part of the match's worth of flashback targets, and the fact that we have a lot of tramplers, makes it an awful stalling card.
Other than that, the 2 power is definitely significant. With a Rancor, it reaches 4 power, which makes her being able to trade with Thought-Knot Seer, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, a full Grim Flayer, Celestial Colonnade, etc., and every point of damage we are able to deal to our opponent matters, since it's very close when it comes to us swinging for lethal.
And to state the obvious, Dryad Militant is way better than Kessig Prowler.
It is not really fair to compare her to Scavenging Ooze, in my opinion. They are both graveyard hate, but you can't compare 1 and 2-drops like that. Also, since the Ooze's ability costs mana and Militant's does not, it is better to play more Militants than Oozes, too because the Ooze is worthless in multiples. (Militant has the advantage of exiling removal when one of them gets removed, which normally is a very big deal to Snapcaster decks.)
Other than that, we do not have many 1-drops that are really good, aside from Experiment One and Dryad Militant.
EDIT: I added card choices for the Collected Stompany list! I mostly used info that YoungQuakerBoy used in the previous thread, I assume that's okay. Please let me know if I missed anything or if I wrote something wrong. I was also going through the old thread, to find more info in general, and added small pieces of info: that Greenbelt Rampager is bad against Burn because of Eidolon of the Great Revel, that Grafdigger's Cage is bad for Strangleroot Geist and Kitchen Finks, and I added Llanowar Reborn to suboptimal choices and Vexing Shusher to sideboard cards. I was surprised I haven't seen that card more often, does anyone have experience with it?
Also, I was looking for a good basic white splash list, but I couldn't find one. Does anyone have one that would be good to use in the primer?
I haven't seen any build use it, but it's a very high risk card. Your opponent can use the +2 mana at their advantage and end of turn kill the Magus. I understand how strong it can be, but I think (especially especially now when removal is prevalent in almost every deck) it can be used against you very often.
When you CoCo him in, how much use do you have for the 6 total mana?
I don't want to shoot down your idea, I'm just trying to be critical of it.
EDIT: I forgot about Rhonas's Last Stand! I assume that the general consensus was that it doesn't work in our deck because of the tempo and the lack of devotion, but can anyone tell me more about experience with it? If it hasn't been tested, then I'll put that in the primer as well.
Actually rhonas last stand is terrible in agro like this. It actually sets you back a turn regardless of when you play it and beware of playing anything else that turn since those lands wont untap either on your next untap. I mean the token is really quite efficient but overall its sets you back more than it would help you out regardless when played. That and while its big in and of itself it has no penetration aid.
Hi everyone, I'm sorry but in these days my internet connection was down and unfortunately I couldn't help with this primer, but guys you did a GREAT job!
Extra question though: against which decks is Bow of Nylea good against? I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to this card, and I want new players to understand it as well as possible.
Answering to this question: I think that the bow is pretty useful in any situation, for example against burn those 3 life would be helpful, also deathtouch to our trampled creatures make every block painful for our opponent and the last ability shrinks the goyf, so I think that burn and DS are the matchup where the bow really shines.
And about last stand I agree with EonAon, it is simply not worth the "2 tapped lands for 2 turns" thing only to cast a 5/4 with no devotion
The primer isn't finished yet, so if you'd like I could really use some more help with:
- Updating the Collected Stompany list, since it's about a year old and slightly outdated
- Basic splash lists (mostly black/white)
- Matchups, including what sideboard cards are good/how to side in and out
- (A revolt list?)
That's basically what I still want to add. Should I also add a 'core' of the deck, or is the basic list with card choices enough to tell new players how to make a stompy deck?
In my opinion adding other good "basic" lists (for example the basic list of amicdeep or from other people who write here) could be helpful for a new player, because all together can give the inspiration to build his/her own version.
Unfortunately I can only try my best to help you with the "Matchup/Sideboard cards" because I don't know much about the other topics that you want to include
I added a Core, along with commonly used cards to fill up the gaps. Please let me know what you think!
Also got rid of a lot of spaces between the spoiler tags, to shorten it and make the overview nicer.
I'm looking through the old thread to find more info on cards, and I found that someone was talking about Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers. I assume nobody has had experience with it, so do you think it'd be good to add as a 1-of, now that most people have 2 Rhonas the Indomitable mainboard and 1 Thrun, the Last Troll side? Or is the downside against Blood Moon too big? (I'm talking about a build without Dungrove Elder.)
And yes, I would love to add the ratings to cards. I didn't even know you could do that, and have just seen it under smileys. Would it be okay for me to add ratings and everyone saying if they agree? I probably won't do all of them right that way.
EDIT: just added ratings!
DOUBLE EDIT: Also added the progress of the editing at the top of the primer! Do people like that, or does it look bad?
I can definitely create a different categorization, like 1-drops, 2-drops etc. I think that's a nice thing to do!
Oops! Completely forgot about the other Ooze, haha! I'll add that as well.
I can make a short 'bad card section' after all the good cards in each category. The reason why I made this section is so that new players know the reason why certain cards aren't played. They don't really need a rating, since they are just bad, but what I've experienced in the thread is that a lot of new players come here and ask about cards we've talked about 5 times already. To put that discussion in 2-3 sentences in the primer should clear things up easily for them.
The bad card section isn't about the rating, it's about why they're bad.
Does anyone know more lands or noncreature spells that are bad? Wild Defiance used to be played a long time ago, do people have experience with it? Anything else I've missed?
Note that the sideboard section is far from done, but i've managed to do a big part of it. I've also deleted the space between card name and description to make it more compact.
EDIT: also changed the Leatherback/Rhonas in the basic build from 4/1 to 3/2.
Spellskite
Grafdigger's Cage
Pithing Needle
Torpor Orb
Wheel of Sun and Moon
BWTokens
GCollected Stompany
BWGUSeance Insanity
URUR Bloo
First of all, thank you for the input, I'm working on it right now.
Secondly: I'm putting some cards in the sideboard section, some in the mainboard, and some in both (Scavenging Ooze). I put Nature's Way in the side under removal, should I put it under main? Both?
What do you think about putting cards there twice? (I'm a bit torn about Thrun, the Last Troll and wether I should put him in main, side or both.)
I was also planning on making a 'to be tested'-section, with cards like Merfolk Branchwalker, Tireless Tracker, (Slaughterhorn? I know people used to test this card, but I don't remember how good/bad it was,) Reclamation Sage, Prowling Serpopard?, Shapers' Sanctuary, and probably more.
Also, sorry but I'm not moving Old-Growth Dryads away from bad choice. It is so bad against so many decks, even if I were to move it, it'd go to sideboard since there are very little decks where you want to have this card. Not trying to be mean or anything, just explaining why.
The imput of cards I forgot really helps, thank you so much for that! Keep them coming!
And thanks for the compliments, I'm working really hard on this and it's so nice to hear that you like it!
EDIT: YoungQuakerBoy, can you elaborate a bit on why those cards are good in the side, and against which decks?
"Mono green". What is this? I was looking up the modern metagame, and I came across this stuff. Has anyone played against this? Also, is there a primer for it?
Also, just to be sure: is it okay if I delete the 'tournament results/video' section? It's very outdated and doesn't give good information about the iteration of the deck we're playing right now. I want all information in the primer to be relevant and useful.
I deleted the tournament results and the video.
I completed the sideboard section.
I rearranged the order of sideboard cards, so that the most popular ones are at the top for each section.
I slightly changed the examples of cards in the text block under the basic list, so that the creatures and removal cited are actually popular and relevant.
(Does anyone know what the consensus is about cards like Harmonize, Eldritch Evolution, Act of Aggression and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar? Those are the only cards I still need to add, if I didn't forget any.)
If I didn't miss anything, I'd say that the card choices part is completed and we can move on to other builds! I prefer to start with mono green varieties, and then go to splashes.
I already have enough information about the CCompany build, but need more on revolt builds (and Hardened Scales builds if anyone still plays it). Does anyone have a list I can use, along with info on the card choices?
EDIT: XmalkuthX, I think I can move Tusker back to relevant options, it sounds reasonable enough. Even though there are better options most of the time, the fact that is still used with success is good enough for me.
DOUBLE EDIT: Added Aether Vial to bad card choices.
Some comments/suggestions:
Rather than "Bad" cards, I would rename the section "Sub-optimal" choices. Many of the cards listed there are still decent cards for our deck (e.g., Garruk's Companion if you don't have Avatar of the Resolute). They just aren't as good as other options.
In the Prey Upon description, I would include a comparison to Nature's Way since that is the main board card it is closest to. It still has the advantage of costing less mana than Nature's Way.
Obstinate Baloth - I don't think this belongs in the life gain section. As you state, it's primary purpose is to counter discard from Liliana, et al. Life gain is just a bonus. Perhaps it should go in the "Others" section.
You might consider creating a sub-section against removal and sweepers. Shapers' Sanctuary, Heroic Intervention, and Evolutionary Leap all fall in that category.
Regarding cards you asked about:
Harmonize - I believe this was excluded on the basis that it costs 4 mana.
Eldritch Evolution - The general consensus was that you might as well just put in the 3 CMC creature that you were going to search for. It works well for toolbox decks, but not for Stompy.
Act of Aggression - Sideboard card useful against anyone that drops large game-enders. You steal it and use their game-ender to win.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - Perhaps in a Hardened Scales version of the deck? Otherwise, I think the consensus was no, too slow.
Kalonian Tusker - I agree with keeping this in the main board section. I'm actually still running 2 in my list.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Secondly, I have put all the cards in either 'good/sideboard' or 'bad', do we have a need for a 'to be tested' section? I'm mostly thinking of cards like Merfolk Branchwalker, Shapers' Sanctuary and Tireless Tracker, but other than that I don't think there are many cards need to be tested. (Ghalta, Primal Hunger? I'm thinking it might be good as a 1-of, but that's all speculation of course.)
Also, at the start of the primer it says "do not suggest 5 drops, 4 drops are stretching it but might be worth it" (that's what the original primer said.) Would it be reasonable to change that to 4-drops? I feel like we should change it, but I want to hear your opinions as well.
About Obstinate Baloth, you're right. I just ordered it in such a way that all the cards that gain life are put together. (Even though we don't put it in our sideboard to fight Burn, it IS pretty good against them.)
I've already put Kalonian Tusker back to main choices. (I was not sure whether I should give it a 2.5 or a 3, but I feel like it's closer to 2.5 since it's not resilient or has evasion/hate)
EDIT: Added Wilt-Leaf Liege to sideboard, and edited everything that has been suggested.
Extra question though: against which decks is Bow of Nylea good against? I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to this card, and I want new players to understand it as well as possible.
DOUBLE EDIT: I just added the Collected Stompany list!! I tried to put in some useful info about the deck, and some of the adjustments made. I have a question though: YoungQuakerBoy, the list you gave me is about a year old, how outdated is this? What would you change to it? One of the things I would change is play a number of Rhonases, and slightly change the sideboard (remove Spellskite, Back to Nature and Reclamation Sage). You have more experience with this build, am I right about this? I assume the sideboard is also for your local meta, and not a general sideboard.
Dryad Militant's ability is a lot stronger than it looks at first glance. It hinders so many decks, and that kind of obstruction game 1 can be very beneficial for us. UR Storm, UR Delver, Grixis Death's Shadow, Dredge, Instant Reanimator, UW control, UWx Midrange/Jeskai Nahiri, any deck that runs Tarmogoyf/Grim Flayer (Jund, Abzan, Bushwacker, Zoo), they all experience significant hindrance from us playing a playset of Dryad Militant. It makes Snapcaster Mage worthless, which is normally one of the strongest cards in a control build. But to remove at least a part of the match's worth of flashback targets, and the fact that we have a lot of tramplers, makes it an awful stalling card.
Other than that, the 2 power is definitely significant. With a Rancor, it reaches 4 power, which makes her being able to trade with Thought-Knot Seer, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, a full Grim Flayer, Celestial Colonnade, etc., and every point of damage we are able to deal to our opponent matters, since it's very close when it comes to us swinging for lethal.
And to state the obvious, Dryad Militant is way better than Kessig Prowler.
It is not really fair to compare her to Scavenging Ooze, in my opinion. They are both graveyard hate, but you can't compare 1 and 2-drops like that. Also, since the Ooze's ability costs mana and Militant's does not, it is better to play more Militants than Oozes, too because the Ooze is worthless in multiples. (Militant has the advantage of exiling removal when one of them gets removed, which normally is a very big deal to Snapcaster decks.)
Other than that, we do not have many 1-drops that are really good, aside from Experiment One and Dryad Militant.
EDIT: I added card choices for the Collected Stompany list! I mostly used info that YoungQuakerBoy used in the previous thread, I assume that's okay. Please let me know if I missed anything or if I wrote something wrong. I was also going through the old thread, to find more info in general, and added small pieces of info: that Greenbelt Rampager is bad against Burn because of Eidolon of the Great Revel, that Grafdigger's Cage is bad for Strangleroot Geist and Kitchen Finks, and I added Llanowar Reborn to suboptimal choices and Vexing Shusher to sideboard cards. I was surprised I haven't seen that card more often, does anyone have experience with it?
Also, I was looking for a good basic white splash list, but I couldn't find one. Does anyone have one that would be good to use in the primer?
When you CoCo him in, how much use do you have for the 6 total mana?
I don't want to shoot down your idea, I'm just trying to be critical of it.
EDIT: I forgot about Rhonas's Last Stand! I assume that the general consensus was that it doesn't work in our deck because of the tempo and the lack of devotion, but can anyone tell me more about experience with it? If it hasn't been tested, then I'll put that in the primer as well.
Answering to this question: I think that the bow is pretty useful in any situation, for example against burn those 3 life would be helpful, also deathtouch to our trampled creatures make every block painful for our opponent and the last ability shrinks the goyf, so I think that burn and DS are the matchup where the bow really shines.
And about last stand I agree with EonAon, it is simply not worth the "2 tapped lands for 2 turns" thing only to cast a 5/4 with no devotion
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
And I'll add the info on the Bow. It does get removed easily in both matchups though.. (Smash to Smithereens/Destructive Revelry and Kolaghan's Command/Abrupt Decay)
The primer isn't finished yet, so if you'd like I could really use some more help with:
- Updating the Collected Stompany list, since it's about a year old and slightly outdated
- Basic splash lists (mostly black/white)
- Matchups, including what sideboard cards are good/how to side in and out
- (A revolt list?)
That's basically what I still want to add. Should I also add a 'core' of the deck, or is the basic list with card choices enough to tell new players how to make a stompy deck?
Unfortunately I can only try my best to help you with the "Matchup/Sideboard cards" because I don't know much about the other topics that you want to include
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
Also got rid of a lot of spaces between the spoiler tags, to shorten it and make the overview nicer.
I'm looking through the old thread to find more info on cards, and I found that someone was talking about Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers. I assume nobody has had experience with it, so do you think it'd be good to add as a 1-of, now that most people have 2 Rhonas the Indomitable mainboard and 1 Thrun, the Last Troll side? Or is the downside against Blood Moon too big? (I'm talking about a build without Dungrove Elder.)
I'm glad to see that Old Growth Dryads in the bad card section.. that card is not good for our deck.
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