That sounds like a strong plan. What would a decklist look like do you think? When probe left, it was simultaneously replaced by push, so I'm not yet entirely sure what I would be cutting to make space or for how many of the new cantrip
Hello, I haven't played delver in about a year now, but I saw "Chart a Course" get spoiled in IXA and it made me think of delver of secrets. Just thought I'd mention it here. What do you guys think?
Hello, I haven't played delver in about a year now, but I saw "Chart a Course" get spoiled in IXA and it made me think of delver of secrets. Just thought I'd mention it here. What do you guys think?
Initial impressions: 2 cmc sorcery isn't where delver wants to be.
4 seconds later: realize this wouldn't work as an eot play anyway.
I think it's worth testing. 2 mana for 2 cards is as good as it gets, but I'm pretty sure jamming 4 in and calling it good is a mistake. Also, I think it fits the merfolk shell better than delver.
Hello, I haven't played delver in about a year now, but I saw "Chart a Course" get spoiled in IXA and it made me think of delver of secrets. Just thought I'd mention it here. What do you guys think?
Initial impressions: 2 cmc sorcery isn't where delver wants to be.
4 seconds later: realize this wouldn't work as an eot play anyway.
I think it's worth testing. 2 mana for 2 cards is as good as it gets, but I'm pretty sure jamming 4 in and calling it good is a mistake. Also, I think it fits the merfolk shell better than delver.
Agree with that, I don't play merfolk but it looks somewhat more suitable for them. That being said, it's the best draw spell I've seen for blue in a cool minute (albeit a smaller one), and the lack of life loss that Night's Whisper has is relevant. Could be a one or two of mainboard, or just a sideboard card for matchups where drawing a few extra cards is relevant. I would for sure only be including it in Pyro heavy builds though considering how much easier it gets to ensure we are attacking with a creature.
Would a mix between old UR Delver and new Grixis lists be a thing if Chart a Course was the glue? Not sure UR or this is the better shell for it but the potential is there. Here's what I came up with as a prototype.
How about something like this? Not the biggest fan of the awkward tension of Delve and Drake/Serpent but maybe it could work? I also wanted a 3rd Drake but there wasn't quite enough room for it. Maybe if the list went down to 1 delve card and 17 lands you could add it and another disruption piece it might work a little better.
What are some lists looking like nowadays? I built and played Grixis Delver about a couple months before GDS emerged and since then (as we all know) Delver fell out of favor. Basically looking for if anyone has had success with any new tech from Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation, Claim//Fame possibly? I've been playing a lot of Storm at my LGS lately and people have started packing like 4 SB cards specifically for Storm since 2 others have started as well, so looking to go back to something else for a while.
Now that all cards of Ixalan are spoiled, do we see other options besides Opt as 'potentials'?
Chart a Course is a reasonable draw spell, probably on par with Night's Whisper for us and the lack of life loss is relevant. Perilous Voyage is one of the better disperse type effects we've seen a while so it's worth noting. Entrancing Melody is... fair? A fairly reasonably costed take control effect, but effectively useless against opposing delve creatures and eldrazi. Also sorcery speed. Someone on reddit said Jace, Cunning Castaway would probably find his home best in a delver type deck. I'm inclined to agree but I don't know if it's good enough for modern, but I'd like to test a copy, maybe 2.
That's about it, didn't see much in the black or red colors this time around for us but I could be wrong. Opt is far and away the card that will have the most immediate impact for us since we get a few more playable cantrips main deck. Some of the other spells are prob worth testing but I didn't see any other auto-includes.
The game plan's the same; every one of these guys is either a bomb or a cheap answer intended to enable my bombs. Bob is too good to pass up, but I'm only running him as a 2-of. Fatal Push is obvious. IoK is for non-counter disruption and Terminate is just general all-purpose removal. The thing about Pyrodelver + Enigma Drake is that these are all cheap bombs that need to be dealt with in different ways. The one thing that gets rid of all three (removal) is what my counters and Kozilek are for.
Sideboard is for artifact/PW hate. Blood Moon hurts you too, but stops Tron cold. Damnation is a good wipe; was thinking of just splashing Bontu's Last Reckoning instead. MtM is to stop the other guy's wipe.
Haven't yet gotten to test at modern night with Opt in the deck but just from running some trial games I also found Opt to be fantastic... the deck feels extremely sleek and refined and that's only been with 3. Think I'll try the full 4 but I'm not yet sure what to cut yet. I've also started running a pair of Thoughtseize main deck but I'm not sure if that's correct over Inquisition.
One of the other things I working on is deciding which grindy cards I should be putting into my board. I've toyed with Painful Truths, Rise // Fall, even JVP so far just for the grindy matchups. Haven't yet given Lily a shot yet (either of them). Would definitely like some input on that!
If you want a draw-two-for-two sorcery, don't you already have See Beyond?
That's not 2 for 2 since you have to shuffle 1 back. Chart a Course with "raid" active means you draw 2, period. See Beyond is Net 0 card increase since you spend 1 card, drew 2 and shuffled 1 back. Chart a Course is Net 1 card increase since you spent 1 card, drew 2.
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Won my weekly Modern FNM with a List very close to the one posted above. I play no Remands but Inquisitions. Im on my phone right now, will post the List tomorrow. Opt feels so freaking good. Totally sold on running full sets of Opt, Visions and Scour. The Deck ran super smooth.
Have you thought about Chart a Course in grixis delver? I noticed you posted on the U/R delver forums also. I'm wondering if you did full playsets of Opt, Chart, Visions, and Scour, and if so what would you take out as a result? I'm thinking of running a list similar to the 5-0 Grixis with opt, but Chart may be something to consider
i ran a very similar list at fnm and went 3-2. had a very close game against UW gideon control and ended up losing an unfortunate match vs a junk pile where they were able to slam chalice on 1 very early in games 2 and 3. i feel like pyromancer is by far the worst card in the deck and i wasnt completely sold on opt. i almost felt like id rather have censor over opt.
matches were
2-0 vs affinity
1-2 vs UW control
2-0 vs junk
2-0 vs ad nauseum
1-2 vs junk homebrew
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My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Spicy list, and good write up! Obviously not delver but it's cool, different flavors of grixis are always neat. I suppose my biggest concern would be it feels like you are kinda playing a sorta bad version of both delver and grixis control. Like it has a lot of the core grixis cards and such, but without delvers it doesn't usually apply pressure too often, and without cryptic it looks like it would be difficult playing the long game. Cryptic is just really good. So I'm not sure what it gains by dropping those cards in particular. Then again, you're the guy with the 4-0... not me lol
Separately, I was really hoping that pyro would be better with the inclusion of opt, but I found it about the same. It's either really good when the opponent doesn't have an answer, or just bad when it dies or even if it just gets outclassed. So I'm moving a different direction. Gonna have my list focus a little more on delve threats again, with a 2/2 split on the banana king and his pet fish. Also, I finally picked up a Vendillion Clique so I'll give that a shot. Feels like grixis lists are continuing to move more onto the UB side of the color spectrum and away from red, and I can't blame them especially with UBx shadow lists still having success.
Logic knot has increasingly become one of my favorite cards in the deck and it's a shame I can only really run one. It's also becoming increasingly difficult to decide how I want to split up my removal and countermagic.
I think my main questions for you guys are this: is pyro worth it for you, and how has mainboard discard been? I'm inclined to run a pair of Thoughtseize in the main. For now, here's my current list, subject to change.
What `X` do you find you typically use for logic knot? Do you like it as an early, mid, and late game card? Often we are powering out delve threats that eat up our graveyard, and the emptier our graveyard, the less effective our snapcaster can be if we don't keep around value spells. Late game, your Delve cost is usually a lot higher too (i.e. opponent has more mana).
Depends. Sometimes it's just a 2 mana force spike, especially in the early game. Obviously it's just strictly worse than mana leak then. but it shines later in the longer matchups when you can choose to either dump mana or graveyard trash to keep the spell relevant. Could just be I've been running well and getting lucky with it, or could be the late game relevance is actually significant but nonetheless I've enjoyed it, and it hasn't seemed to clash too strongly with my ability to throw down delve threats.
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Initial impressions: 2 cmc sorcery isn't where delver wants to be.
4 seconds later: realize this wouldn't work as an eot play anyway.
I think it's worth testing. 2 mana for 2 cards is as good as it gets, but I'm pretty sure jamming 4 in and calling it good is a mistake. Also, I think it fits the merfolk shell better than delver.
Agree with that, I don't play merfolk but it looks somewhat more suitable for them. That being said, it's the best draw spell I've seen for blue in a cool minute (albeit a smaller one), and the lack of life loss that Night's Whisper has is relevant. Could be a one or two of mainboard, or just a sideboard card for matchups where drawing a few extra cards is relevant. I would for sure only be including it in Pyro heavy builds though considering how much easier it gets to ensure we are attacking with a creature.
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Sorcery (7)
4x Serum Visions
3x Chart a Course
3x Fatal Push
1x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Mana Leak
4x Opt
1x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
Creature (15)
4x Delver of Secrets
1x Gurmag Angler
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Young Pyromancer
1x Blood Moon
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Collective Brutality
1x Countersquall
1x Dreadbore
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Kozilek's Return
1x Negate
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Smash to Smithereens
1x Terminate
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
1x Censor
3x Fatal Push
1x Harvest Pyre
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Logic Knot
2x Mana Leak
3x Opt
1x Spell Snare
4x Thought Scour
Creature (14)
1x Cryptic Serpent
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Enigma Drake
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Young Pyromancer
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
1x Watery Grave
Sorcery (8)
4x Serum Visions
4x Chart a Course
3x Blood Moon
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Collective Brutality
1x Countersquall
1x Dispel
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Kozilek's Return
1x Negate
1x Pyroclasm
2x Smash to Smithereens
1x Terminate
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
4 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Gurmag Angler
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Dismember
1 Deprive
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Mana Leak
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Logic Knot
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vandalblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Shadow of Doubt
What do you guys think about my deck? Its built to play meta decks of my city
I Took a lot of ideias of the discussion
Chart a Course is a reasonable draw spell, probably on par with Night's Whisper for us and the lack of life loss is relevant. Perilous Voyage is one of the better disperse type effects we've seen a while so it's worth noting. Entrancing Melody is... fair? A fairly reasonably costed take control effect, but effectively useless against opposing delve creatures and eldrazi. Also sorcery speed. Someone on reddit said Jace, Cunning Castaway would probably find his home best in a delver type deck. I'm inclined to agree but I don't know if it's good enough for modern, but I'd like to test a copy, maybe 2.
That's about it, didn't see much in the black or red colors this time around for us but I could be wrong. Opt is far and away the card that will have the most immediate impact for us since we get a few more playable cantrips main deck. Some of the other spells are prob worth testing but I didn't see any other auto-includes.
Anyway, here's my list, adapted from my Pyrodelver deck;
// 1 Artifact
1 Runechanter's Pike
// 12 Creature
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Dark Confidant
2 Enigma Drake
// 22 Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Spell Snare
1 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Countersquall
2 Opt
6 Island
1 Mountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
4 Serum Visions
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
// 1 Enchantment
1 Blood Moon
// 3 Land
3 Swamp
//Instant
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Collective Brutality
4 Vandalblast
2 Dreadbore
1 Damnation
The game plan's the same; every one of these guys is either a bomb or a cheap answer intended to enable my bombs. Bob is too good to pass up, but I'm only running him as a 2-of. Fatal Push is obvious. IoK is for non-counter disruption and Terminate is just general all-purpose removal. The thing about Pyrodelver + Enigma Drake is that these are all cheap bombs that need to be dealt with in different ways. The one thing that gets rid of all three (removal) is what my counters and Kozilek are for.
Sideboard is for artifact/PW hate. Blood Moon hurts you too, but stops Tron cold. Damnation is a good wipe; was thinking of just splashing Bontu's Last Reckoning instead. MtM is to stop the other guy's wipe.
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Young Pyromancer
Spells
4 Serum Visions
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
4 Opt
2 Remand
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Blood Moon
2 Countersquall
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Shatterstorm
Thoughts about that 5-0 Grixis with opt??
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2017-09-25
One of the other things I working on is deciding which grindy cards I should be putting into my board. I've toyed with Painful Truths, Rise // Fall, even JVP so far just for the grindy matchups. Haven't yet given Lily a shot yet (either of them). Would definitely like some input on that!
That's not 2 for 2 since you have to shuffle 1 back. Chart a Course with "raid" active means you draw 2, period. See Beyond is Net 0 card increase since you spend 1 card, drew 2 and shuffled 1 back. Chart a Course is Net 1 card increase since you spent 1 card, drew 2.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
What is it better and worse against?
Have you thought about Chart a Course in grixis delver? I noticed you posted on the U/R delver forums also. I'm wondering if you did full playsets of Opt, Chart, Visions, and Scour, and if so what would you take out as a result? I'm thinking of running a list similar to the 5-0 Grixis with opt, but Chart may be something to consider
matches were
2-0 vs affinity
1-2 vs UW control
2-0 vs junk
2-0 vs ad nauseum
1-2 vs junk homebrew
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Separately, I was really hoping that pyro would be better with the inclusion of opt, but I found it about the same. It's either really good when the opponent doesn't have an answer, or just bad when it dies or even if it just gets outclassed. So I'm moving a different direction. Gonna have my list focus a little more on delve threats again, with a 2/2 split on the banana king and his pet fish. Also, I finally picked up a Vendillion Clique so I'll give that a shot. Feels like grixis lists are continuing to move more onto the UB side of the color spectrum and away from red, and I can't blame them especially with UBx shadow lists still having success.
Logic knot has increasingly become one of my favorite cards in the deck and it's a shame I can only really run one. It's also becoming increasingly difficult to decide how I want to split up my removal and countermagic.
I think my main questions for you guys are this: is pyro worth it for you, and how has mainboard discard been? I'm inclined to run a pair of Thoughtseize in the main. For now, here's my current list, subject to change.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Spirebluff Canal
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Young Pyromancer
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Opt
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Logic Knot
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Dispel
2 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Countersquall
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Rise // Fall
1 Painful Truths
1 Izzet Staticaster