Has anyone ever considered upping the number of fetches in this deck to like 10-12? I mean death shadow does it. This could allow us to deck thin even harder.
Ryan Overturf used to play 10 fetches last year around this time when he top 8'ed in SCG Indy. He was playing the more control build: no Pyromancers with 1 Clique.
I believe much of the future of the deck depends on Street Wraith getting banned or not. If it does indeed, Shadow decks will probably evolve into something like Delver (where Shadow can still be played)
My main issue for the moment with tombstalker is how expensive he is. If you're going to play it, then don't do it along blood moons.
Hey all! I've been playing this deck a little bit lately and have been wondering in adding Bone Picker. I've been thinking about in it's place by taking out Grim Lavamancer from my deck in its place. Has anyone else used Bone Picker in the deck? I've quite curios to see this creature in action in the deck.
I haven't used it so far, but if you want to, I think you should increase the number of cc 1 removaal. Set of Push plus some combination of bolt/dismember.
The last few lists I see here run 3-4 YP. I like YP but I always felt horrible if I can't get immediate value off him (I miss you G. Probe). The worse is when I'm holding countermagic and I just cast YP. I have to wait until my opponent casts something so I can counter it. It just feels horrible! Anyone else get that feeling?
Anyone else try the Grixis Death's Shadow and then revert back to Delver? I'm thinking about doing it. DS version just doesn't feel good.
Yeah, Young Pyromancer certainly lost some value when Probe got the axe. I may give it another try though since Claim // Fame's been printed. That card looks sweet for this deck; not as good as I think it'll be in Death's Shadow though. That being said, Claim would have Delver, Snappy & YP as juicy targets in our deck. I'm not sure what to cut from my list to make room at the moment.
The last few lists I see here run 3-4 YP. I like YP but I always felt horrible if I can't get immediate value off him (I miss you G. Probe). The worse is when I'm holding countermagic and I just cast YP. I have to wait until my opponent casts something so I can counter it. It just feels horrible! Anyone else get that feeling?
Anyone else try the Grixis Death's Shadow and then revert back to Delver? I'm thinking about doing it. DS version just doesn't feel good.
I honestly haven't tried the versions that run Death's Shadow, just seems like it took away from the whole delver theme. Another thing is that having your life total quite low to get things rolling, does really put us in danger for little damage to be done against us to steal a win.
Yeah, Young Pyromancer certainly lost some value when Probe got the axe. I may give it another try though since Claim // Fame's been printed. That card looks sweet for this deck; not as good as I think it'll be in Death's Shadow though. That being said, Claim would have Delver, Snappy & YP as juicy targets in our deck. I'm not sure what to cut from my list to make room at the moment.
Young Pyromancer is is good, I used to run it in the deck for a while but unfortunately just wasn't getting the same value it had for quite a while. I really wanna test out Claim // Fame in the deck to see if it a good tech against decks that use a lot of removal or simply just delving.
For me, and where I play, Young Pyromancer is crazy good. Personally for me, YP is a staple in Grixis Delver. Yes, with Gitaxian Probe, YP was a bit better. But usually, I don't even play it on turn 2, I keep it as long as possible and play it when I'm 100% that I can get some value out of it. Also, I've been testing 4 YPs for about 2 weeks now. Losing him on turn 2, isn't as bad anymore because you have 3 more copies.
I gave up on 2 YP a while ago and replaced them for 2 Bone Picker, overall I was reasonably impressed (I always felt like I got better value than the Young Pypro's). It certainly slows down removal to sorcery, but being able to kill a dork and cast it turn 2 offered another 3 power flyer which was always helpful.
I've recently switched up to playing a Vendillion Clique but after my recent scrub out at a local PPTQ I might end up changing back to the Bone Pickers!
Young Pyromancer is a good part of the board and I used to run a fair amount of them in my board but it isn't that good as of right now. I have been testing out Vendilion Clique in my deck and I really like it. Another good flyer to get in there. I may test out Young Pyromancer in the future to see if it deserves another shot.
Really awesome to see a straight delver list place that well! Just a nice reminder that the deck is still good without shadow. It is an interesting take on it certainly... only 3 delve fatties, 2 pyromancer, no shadow, only 18 lands, some main board inquisition and 2 copies of Remand. Only 2 push but 3 terminate and a Murdurous Cut to accompany it (I suppose that's why the 1 less delve threat).
Nothing too extravagant but the copies of Remand are interesting just considering most people seemed to have dropped it with how cheap threats can be nowadays (Shadow the obvious case). Also, this guy does not **** around with big creatures apparently... 3 Terminate, the single Murderous Cut and then the 2 copies of Dismember in the side indicate that. I'm really surprised to see him on only 18 lands too... I thought I was being greedy with 19. I guess he gets to blind flip Delver more often though. Anyway, really cool to see this place well!
The last two previous Grixis Delver list that made top 8 in some events both had 2 Inquisitions and 2 Thoughtseize in the 75. The Enigma Drake list had 2 Inquisition and 2 Thoughtseize in the main. This list has 2 IoK in the main and 2 TS in the side. It seems like discard package is a great card in Delver right now.
The last two previous Grixis Delver list that made top 8 in some events both had 2 Inquisitions and 2 Thoughtseize in the 75. The Enigma Drake list had 2 Inquisition and 2 Thoughtseize in the main. This list has 2 IoK in the main and 2 TS in the side. It seems like discard package is a great card in Delver right now.
The thing that makes me worried with moving towards more discard is that you start to turn the deck into a proactive rather than a reactive strategy. The reason this works for decks like Jund or Death's Shadow is that they have, on average, better topdecks than you because the raw power level of their cards is higher. We in general do not have that powerful lategame topdeck ability because we're not packing as many "haymakers" as those traditional discard strategies. Our deck runs alot more on synergy and reactive disruption, so-called "nickel and dimeing", rather than poking a hole in the opponent's defense and powering through that opening, which is exactly what you see from other discard decks.
Now this isn't to say that discard is bad for us; I've been running a couple Thoughtseize in the board for quite a while now which has been great against Tron and combo. All I'm saying is that the more we move into maindeck discard, the quicker we become bad Shadow
Any thoughts on Collective Brutality in the current meta? I'm running 2 in the board atm and find myself only bringing it in against Burn/Zoo and Storm so it feels really akward atm.
It's still solid against any of the CoCo variants, which can be problematic for us if they ramp too quickly and hit on their companies. I think it's worth at least a 1-of in the board for the utility
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Modern UR Storm URB Grixis Delver W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
Any thoughts on Collective Brutality in the current meta? I'm running 2 in the board atm and find myself only bringing it in against Burn/Zoo and Storm so it feels really akward atm.
I 'really' like Collective Brutality right now in the meta. It can punish hands the need certain pieces to get ahead, aka instants or sorceries, or get rid of mana dork that is really needed or a problem. Plus it ca help put stuff we want in the graveyard that we either want there or fuel for delving.
Went 3-0 for the first time with Grixis Delver at tonight's FNM.
Played against Jeskai Queller/Control/Geist (2-1, lost G1), Living End (2-1, lost G1), RG Ponza/Superfriends (2-0).
I made a LOT of stupid mistakes tonight, but luckily for me, it didn't matter.
You can also see that I'm playing with a playset of Young Pyromancers... I have no regrets. Every game that I won tonight was because I had multiple Pyromancers. Right now, I have no complaints with 2 Tasigur and 4 Pyromancers. But I would like to test if it's better 3 Tasigurs and 3 Pyromancers instead.
I will might start testing 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Inquisition of Kozilek in the 75, and see how it feels.
How is Ceremonious Rejection been doing for you in the sideboard? I can see it being key in some matchups such as Affinity and Tron builds. Is it useful against another decks? I've thought running Rakdos Charm because it is very versatile in key situations. I might trade out the Ravenous Trap for it, Dredge hasn't been too popular as of now. Here is my sideboard as of now.
I used to run 2 Blood Moons in sideboard against Tron a lot of the time and Jund, traded them out for Harsh Mentor and Liliana, the Last Hope. Any ideas for changes in my sideboard?
In my meta ive got 4-6 GDS,1-2 Dredge,2 Burn,2 UW Control,2-3 Affinity,2 Merfolk,2 Eldra Tron and 1-2 BGx players.
With this meta in mind would you guys make any drastic changes?
Regarding the mana base i know that Scalding Tarn would be better than Bloodstained Mire but i already own a Playset of Bloodstained Mires and im not sure if irly want to spend 200euro on the PS Scalding Tarn atm.
Hope you guys can help me out.
Personally I'm not a fan of the 2 IoK. My preference is that if I'm running discard, I'd like to ensure I have it early before they become dead draws. I'd prefer a 2nd Brutality and either another spell or threat. That being said, I think Thoughtseize in the board is fine. In fact, if I'm running only 2 discard spells main, I'd rather they be Thoughtseize over IoK. Just my 2-cents on the subject.
My main issue for the moment with tombstalker is how expensive he is. If you're going to play it, then don't do it along blood moons.
Anyone else try the Grixis Death's Shadow and then revert back to Delver? I'm thinking about doing it. DS version just doesn't feel good.
I honestly haven't tried the versions that run Death's Shadow, just seems like it took away from the whole delver theme. Another thing is that having your life total quite low to get things rolling, does really put us in danger for little damage to be done against us to steal a win.
Young Pyromancer is is good, I used to run it in the deck for a while but unfortunately just wasn't getting the same value it had for quite a while. I really wanna test out Claim // Fame in the deck to see if it a good tech against decks that use a lot of removal or simply just delving.
Young Pyromancer is a good part of the board and I used to run a fair amount of them in my board but it isn't that good as of right now. I have been testing out Vendilion Clique in my deck and I really like it. Another good flyer to get in there. I may test out Young Pyromancer in the future to see if it deserves another shot.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115084
Nothing too extravagant but the copies of Remand are interesting just considering most people seemed to have dropped it with how cheap threats can be nowadays (Shadow the obvious case). Also, this guy does not **** around with big creatures apparently... 3 Terminate, the single Murderous Cut and then the 2 copies of Dismember in the side indicate that. I'm really surprised to see him on only 18 lands too... I thought I was being greedy with 19. I guess he gets to blind flip Delver more often though. Anyway, really cool to see this place well!
Now this isn't to say that discard is bad for us; I've been running a couple Thoughtseize in the board for quite a while now which has been great against Tron and combo. All I'm saying is that the more we move into maindeck discard, the quicker we become bad Shadow
It's still solid against any of the CoCo variants, which can be problematic for us if they ramp too quickly and hit on their companies. I think it's worth at least a 1-of in the board for the utility
UR Storm
URB Grixis Delver
W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
I 'really' like Collective Brutality right now in the meta. It can punish hands the need certain pieces to get ahead, aka instants or sorceries, or get rid of mana dork that is really needed or a problem. Plus it ca help put stuff we want in the graveyard that we either want there or fuel for delving.
Played against Jeskai Queller/Control/Geist (2-1, lost G1), Living End (2-1, lost G1), RG Ponza/Superfriends (2-0).
I made a LOT of stupid mistakes tonight, but luckily for me, it didn't matter.
You can also see that I'm playing with a playset of Young Pyromancers... I have no regrets. Every game that I won tonight was because I had multiple Pyromancers. Right now, I have no complaints with 2 Tasigur and 4 Pyromancers. But I would like to test if it's better 3 Tasigurs and 3 Pyromancers instead.
I will might start testing 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Inquisition of Kozilek in the 75, and see how it feels.
1x Blood Crypt
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
2x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Sorcery (4)
4x Serum Visions
Instant (23)
1x Electrolyze
2x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
3x Spell Snare
3x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
4x Delver of Secrets Flip
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Countersquall
1x Dismember
1x Dispel
1x Fulminator Mage
2x Rakdos Charm
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Negate
1x Thoughtseize
1 Countersquall
2 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Spellskite
1 Terminate
I used to run 2 Blood Moons in sideboard against Tron a lot of the time and Jund, traded them out for Harsh Mentor and Liliana, the Last Hope. Any ideas for changes in my sideboard?
Personally I'm not a fan of the 2 IoK. My preference is that if I'm running discard, I'd like to ensure I have it early before they become dead draws. I'd prefer a 2nd Brutality and either another spell or threat. That being said, I think Thoughtseize in the board is fine. In fact, if I'm running only 2 discard spells main, I'd rather they be Thoughtseize over IoK. Just my 2-cents on the subject.
Edit: Have you tried By Force vs Vandalblast? Might work out OK.