And I think thats the reason you do play him - for times when thoptersword doesnt happen. The question is simply how many tezz aob total and what distribution between side and main.
Thats a tough question to methodically solve because it entirely hinges on how often thopter is disrupted in game one. We know games 2 and 3 will be nightmares of artifact and gy hate and I want three tezz aob in those games (less if im facing an aggro or non-interactive combo deck but you get the idea).
Game one is the question mark and it may really be as simple as how much bx midrange you expect - back to back thoughtseize is unpleasant to say nothing of decay, command, and ooze. It may also be that tez is the best way to fight tron if we just smash with 5/5s asap.
Im exploring the distribution becauseonce I have thoptersword out I generally just want to get mana and time sieve and everything else is meh. So cards that come down after the combo (which is literally just tez) need to be truly earning their keep to stay in.
All told I think its a matter of 1 main 2 side vs 2 main 1 side for me. 3 md definitely gets clunky versus fast decks where you just want to bridge asap
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
So I played 3 leagues yesterday, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1. Losses were to Scapeshift, GW Tron, and Eldrazi Tron. Off the top of my head, wins included GDS, affinity, zoo, GB midrange, UWR control, and 1 Scapeshift! Witchbane Orb is back in the SB and giving me some game against Valakut, which is good, but my current build is just woeful against traditional Tron (no maindeck Tezz), and the Eldrazi Tron player drew all his maps and Karns both games. Oh well.
@Racing - I have to agree with BadMcFadden on the artifact density being necessary to keep Opal and Foundry active. I don't think I'd play a Thopter build, of which I've played lots of wonky versions, with fewer than 20 artifacts, 19 at the fewest. Serum Visions does act as "virtual" artifacts when you're not counting Tezz +1, but still. If you count the combo as 8 cards (4/3/1 split of foundry/sword/sieve), bridge as 2, 0 CMCs that are mana/cantrips at 7, you're at 17 cards right there that are basically as lean a gameplan as possible. Then considering you want at least a couple silver bullets, and you're at 20. There's really no deck-hampering artificial artifact count happening. And lots of grindy games are won without the combo, just by turning opals and extra foundries into thopters, and I wouldn't want to be denied that option.
@Zinch - In the face of BG decks, alternate wincons are quite nice. I play 3 Liliana as my alt wincon, which happens by out-valuing those decks, as well as 1 lingering souls. But they're not always necessary to beat those decks, because the match is very attrition based. If they decay your foundry, you turn it into a 1/1 flier, and presto! You gained card advantage. Same is true if they decay bridge. Those decks have a hard time beating a bunch of 1/1 fliers, especially if they're life total is low from thoughtseize and Bob.
@stu20 - I don't scoop in the lantern matchup to needle on Foundry game 1, I scoop to needle on Liliana, the same way I would scoop to needle on Tezz.
I may move a Tezz or two back to the main if big mana gets bigger in the online meta, because those are the matches where the 5/5s are relevant. For now, I like Lili and a full compliment of discard better game one against the field, and Tezz better out of the board to counter the SB hate.
@boomforest - do you always choose to play second with the gemstone caverns build? And would you say most of your wins come off of Tezz or Thopter beats?
@the_nobodies wins are one of three things happening depending on opponent. Against control or big mana it's often tezzeret making 5/5s, against any aggro they scoop once I get out of burn range and can make a thopter or two a turn, against any combo I'm usually going for the thopter kill but digging furiously for the time sieve combo.
And yes, always on the draw. It makes taking a mulligan easier to handle, we get an extra card, opponent gets one less card and we can very consistently cast a relevant 2 drop on turn 1.
Had a less than stellar 2-2 tournament, human error. Short recap.
Rd 1 vs Abzan
We have an awkward game where we both miss on tezz activations/collected companies until I get the combo a turn before he does.
G2 I pithing needle devoted druid and the next turn he goes infinite with finks/seer
G3 I get turn 2 tezzeret with pentad attacking and my hand was abrupt abrupt collective brutality... so I won.
Rd 2 Living End
I drop a chalice on zero, he dumps his hand gets a living end. I get thopter sword but am one mana away from stabilizing
G2 he casts demonic dread, I let cascade resolve and then whir for a chalice on zero... it does not trigger with Living End already on the stack. Whoops.
I feel like this is a favorable matchup but I punted. It was like learning grafdigger's cage does nothing against LE, a lesson you learn once.
G3 abzan
G1 he gets vizier/finks/vizier infinite combo out and starts going through the motions. I had an abrupt decay in hand but thought that that was an uninterruptable loop like the druid loop so I scooped a little tilted then realized I could have killed vizier or seer with persist on to stop the loop. Whoops.
G2 I get a turn 2 tezzeret and win
G3 it's another tight one but he gets the combo a turn before I can go get time sieve
Rd 4 eldra tron
G1 turn 2 thopter sword on with 2 activations... I run away with it.
He jokes that all is dust does nothing and pulls them out while sideboarding. I don't correct him
G2 I get a turn 2 thopter sword, turn 3 timesieve and the next turn start trying to go infinite with sieve. I drew 10 things in a row that gave me the 5th artifact that wasn't a land. Bauble/mox/spirit guide/prism and finally hit land. It was dope.
In conclusion: The deck ran hot, I just can't afford to punt away games in tight matchups.
Regarding the Abzan player going infinite life with Finks + Seer + Vizier, the idea has been brought up before but do we have an actual ruling reference / judge ruling on our combo + Sieve + Academy ruins overpowering infinite life?
As in we can theoretically take actual infinite turns putting back on top an artifact we sacrifice to foundry, eventually remove their combo, and Tezz or Thopter beat them down from a bajillion to zero because theoretical infinite turns.
Regarding the Abzan player going infinite life with Finks + Seer + Vizier, do we have a judge ruling on our combo + Sieve + Academy ruins overpowering it?
As in we can theoretically take actual infinite turns putting back on top an artifact we sacrifice to foundry, eventually remove their combo, and Tezz or Thopter beat them down from a bajillion to zero because theoretical infinite turns.
Since there are variables involved with disrupting their combo (finding your removal, successfully casting it and permanently ending the combo) a judge would make you play it out long enough to disrupt their combo. Similar to how valakut players and Ad Nausem players when asked to play out their combo they must.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I had an academy main for that reason, but the number of times it was totally dead and crushing my ability to make colored mana made me replace it with a color producing land. More games need you to be able to cast your spells than games you run into where the opponent has infinite life and then you hit the combo and need infinite plus one thopters.
The tourney I'm looking to attend (big comeback to the game!) this friday has a special big payout I'd like to spike, and a fairly set metagame. It's VERY persist-combo heavy as far as I know (knew?).
In the last year or so, IIRW it has come up at least four times that I've locked up the board with either Thopter-Sword or Bridge but can't eek out a win even if I can keep them from actually killing me, because they're on infinite life. So we start counting cards in the library
Said metagame is also particularly light on Burn, heavy on midrange-control and Hatebears decks. So my meta-call is to switch my singleton ute land from Fair to Ruins (for aforementionned reasons and also because it grinds well) and include the Sieve to go over the top of them.
Am I the only one who would play a tezzeret even with the sword/foundry out? In my experience if you can defend him a turn with the combo out you win, so a one turn slower but one turn less expensive time sieve type combo.
From reading what everyone is saying when you get the combo out you just keep making thopters?
I would go some number of flaying tendrils in your main if that's the meta. The deck is already hella strong against midrange so gearing up to beat abzan combo should be pretty simple. Run the table!
Casting tez with thoptersword out is a judgment call but I usually wont because im afraid of counterspells, or having him bolt-snap-bolted or whatever. If im comfortable they arent able to remove him before he does anything then sure ill cast and dig for opals baubles and sieve. Usually the game is still tight enough that I would pay four, pass turn. Get tokens whacked with their removal and have tez run over by an exalted kitchen finks or something similarly stupid. I hate any risk that I will pay 4 for nothing when I could have had 4 life and a full lingering souls instead.
Torpor orb kills combo yes. You sit on it until you believe you will win then sac it to foundry and go nuts. Its surprisingly effective since sometimes you can just wait for the ful thopter sword sieve and go off with virtually zero risk.
I dont get to many tournaments. Last week at lgs I was 3-0-1; 2-1 v merfolk 2-0 vs burn 2-0 vs bant spirits. I test a lot on cockatrice which kinda sucks because I spend a lot of time playing vs brews and fringe decks. But since I am a fringe brew myself I cant say much. But yeah I think ive played vs monoblue grand architect five times already this week :/
I have liked a 4/2 split on foundry sword, and then I prety much always shave one foundry for one tezz aob post-board.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Another completely crazy/dumb idea ive had is trying to board into polymorph emrakul. You would need bitterblossoms or souls and its almost certainly too clunky to be effective - but in principal that is an amazing way to punish opponents for boarding a bunch of gy and artifact hate while cutting removal
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I assume if you maindeck chalice the 1-drops are out (iok, push, serum). I think chalice is way better here out of the board than in the main, esp when we already have a tough-to-stop maindeck plan of thoptersword.
I play 21 lands 4 serums and find it to be very balanced. I want to get to 5 mana so I can time sieve out so the extra land is important, and having serum to dodge the lands when I don't want them is quite good. Usually serum will hit a combo piece, muddle, whir, or tezzeret just by the odds. And when you whiff hard at least you got to skip 2 garbage draws with the scries.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I know it's mainly a judgment call, but just picked up a Crucible of worlds. Mainly for Tezz in legacy but would like to run it in modern. But if I'm going on the land destruction route as an option, is ghost quarter better or is tectonic edge? Ghost quarter gets them a basic but if the deck is all basics or mainly basics, then tectonic edge isn't great. I have 1-3 slots. Is a 2-1 split or a 1-1 split enough to run it?
I know it's mainly a judgment call, but just picked up a Crucible of worlds. Mainly for Tezz in legacy but would like to run it in modern. But if I'm going on the land destruction route as an option, is ghost quarter better or is tectonic edge? Ghost quarter gets them a basic but if the deck is all basics or mainly basics, then tectonic edge isn't great. I have 1-3 slots. Is a 2-1 split or a 1-1 split enough to run it?
Ghost quarter 100%. Tec Edge does almost nothing here because most decks function on <4 lands. Conversely few decks play more than 3-4 basic lands and some play as few as 1. The first 1-3 Ghost Quarters will at least hamper their mana base and after that you're actively strip mining them. And all that said, the biggest reason to play quarter is to disrupt Tron decks, which laugh at Tec edge.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
also with muddle + whir i dont think visions is needed because we're still going to assemble the combo pretty easily, and the post board chalice plan becomes a lot more difficult because you're nullifying more parts of your deck, removal/discard can easily turn into decays but then you're stuck playing visions with a chalice down or taking visions out and then you have a diluted deck with no filtering.
I mean I'm not sure how non-bo serum and chalice is when you can just board out your serums when you board in chalices. But more generally I have found serum to be the glue that makes the deck work. There are a lot of cards we just don't want to draw after turn 2 or draw at all, and some very specific cards that we are looking for (usually whir/combo piece or bridge). That is the perfect storm for Serum to be amazing which is exactly what I've found it to be in this deck. I can imagine trying playing crane, push, and iok again but I cannot really imagine cutting serum visions in any build.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Chalices main are incredible. It just depends what type of person you are, some people think chalice is bad because it doesn't seem to do anything.
People who prefer visible card advantage will go the serum route, it lets you touch lots of cards... I prefer chalice because if cast for two it can just beat people. I like cards like that.
@BadMcFadden what's your W/L like?
@offtheropes5 I LOVE crucible and in the old modern world of "make sure not to die to splinter twin then manland them to death" it was where you wanted to be, but I finally gave up the ghost (ha pun) when tron outran me even with ghost quarter crucible. It's just too slow of a card advantage engine for a format whose games are usually decided by turn 5. And whir+ghost quarters is too sad to fly.
I think a more concise argument is that lantern runs crucible ghost quarter, needs almost no colored mana, mills itself a ton to add card selection and STILL cuts crucible post side in a lot of matchups.
Tangibly? 6-1 for real tournament: 7-1 if you count bonus game vs a goblin deck.
Overall estimate with online play (cockatrice) probably like 70 percent win but I would not make much of that either way as its mostly vs tier two and brews (which can honestly be harder matchups as often as they are free wins).
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
@Reedy - Go ahead and try the Chalice idea, it's fun to test these things out. I have a lot of experience with Chalice main, and I'll tell you about it. I came to modern Tezz from legacy Tezz, where I'd be dropping turn 1 chalices left and right to great effect. I thought, if ever there was a deck in modern to main deck chalice, this would be it. I brought a chalice list to several paper tournaments (right when cheerios was expected to be a thing), and had a .500 record with it both times. It didn't feel bad, it felt OK.
Then I switched over to Serum Visions, and from there, the playset of both visions and IoK. The difference is noticeable. (And running 4 Bauble and 4 Visions doesn't "dilute" the deck as you say, it focuses the deck toward getting the cards that are highest impact). The problem with chalice in modern is that it's not shutting off: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Reanimate, Entomb, Glimpse of Nature, Delver, DRS, Lion's Eye Diamond. The spells it is cutting off are: Thoughtseize, IoK, Bolt, Serum Visions, Push, Path, Mana Dorks, Guides and Swiftspears (if you're lucky). The difference between those two sets of cards is huge. One is a set of broken, powerhouse backbones to decks. The other is a set of very nice utility spells. But if we were to compare running 4 chalice to running 4 IoK, the tradeoff is cutting off a utility spell multiple times after turn 2, to taking a utility spell once on turn 1. In legacy, it's vital to cut off those spells permanently, but in modern?
Another problem with chalice in this deck is: how much do we actually care about that list of spells that Chalice on 1 cuts off? We care about discard, true, but only before we have the combo down. IoK protects your combo from discard in the early game, and if they don't have a discard spell in hand, we take a counterspell or a combo piece. But Path, Push, and Bolt? Meh. Visions and Mana dorks? OK. We're a deck that ignores traditional card advantage because of making thopters and bridge, and we run next to no creatures and don't care about removal.
Thats a tough question to methodically solve because it entirely hinges on how often thopter is disrupted in game one. We know games 2 and 3 will be nightmares of artifact and gy hate and I want three tezz aob in those games (less if im facing an aggro or non-interactive combo deck but you get the idea).
Game one is the question mark and it may really be as simple as how much bx midrange you expect - back to back thoughtseize is unpleasant to say nothing of decay, command, and ooze. It may also be that tez is the best way to fight tron if we just smash with 5/5s asap.
Im exploring the distribution becauseonce I have thoptersword out I generally just want to get mana and time sieve and everything else is meh. So cards that come down after the combo (which is literally just tez) need to be truly earning their keep to stay in.
All told I think its a matter of 1 main 2 side vs 2 main 1 side for me. 3 md definitely gets clunky versus fast decks where you just want to bridge asap
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
@Racing - I have to agree with BadMcFadden on the artifact density being necessary to keep Opal and Foundry active. I don't think I'd play a Thopter build, of which I've played lots of wonky versions, with fewer than 20 artifacts, 19 at the fewest. Serum Visions does act as "virtual" artifacts when you're not counting Tezz +1, but still. If you count the combo as 8 cards (4/3/1 split of foundry/sword/sieve), bridge as 2, 0 CMCs that are mana/cantrips at 7, you're at 17 cards right there that are basically as lean a gameplan as possible. Then considering you want at least a couple silver bullets, and you're at 20. There's really no deck-hampering artificial artifact count happening. And lots of grindy games are won without the combo, just by turning opals and extra foundries into thopters, and I wouldn't want to be denied that option.
@Zinch - In the face of BG decks, alternate wincons are quite nice. I play 3 Liliana as my alt wincon, which happens by out-valuing those decks, as well as 1 lingering souls. But they're not always necessary to beat those decks, because the match is very attrition based. If they decay your foundry, you turn it into a 1/1 flier, and presto! You gained card advantage. Same is true if they decay bridge. Those decks have a hard time beating a bunch of 1/1 fliers, especially if they're life total is low from thoughtseize and Bob.
@stu20 - I don't scoop in the lantern matchup to needle on Foundry game 1, I scoop to needle on Liliana, the same way I would scoop to needle on Tezz.
I may move a Tezz or two back to the main if big mana gets bigger in the online meta, because those are the matches where the 5/5s are relevant. For now, I like Lili and a full compliment of discard better game one against the field, and Tezz better out of the board to counter the SB hate.
@boomforest - do you always choose to play second with the gemstone caverns build? And would you say most of your wins come off of Tezz or Thopter beats?
And yes, always on the draw. It makes taking a mulligan easier to handle, we get an extra card, opponent gets one less card and we can very consistently cast a relevant 2 drop on turn 1.
Had a less than stellar 2-2 tournament, human error. Short recap.
Rd 1 vs Abzan
We have an awkward game where we both miss on tezz activations/collected companies until I get the combo a turn before he does.
G2 I pithing needle devoted druid and the next turn he goes infinite with finks/seer
G3 I get turn 2 tezzeret with pentad attacking and my hand was abrupt abrupt collective brutality... so I won.
Rd 2 Living End
I drop a chalice on zero, he dumps his hand gets a living end. I get thopter sword but am one mana away from stabilizing
G2 he casts demonic dread, I let cascade resolve and then whir for a chalice on zero... it does not trigger with Living End already on the stack. Whoops.
I feel like this is a favorable matchup but I punted. It was like learning grafdigger's cage does nothing against LE, a lesson you learn once.
G3 abzan
G1 he gets vizier/finks/vizier infinite combo out and starts going through the motions. I had an abrupt decay in hand but thought that that was an uninterruptable loop like the druid loop so I scooped a little tilted then realized I could have killed vizier or seer with persist on to stop the loop. Whoops.
G2 I get a turn 2 tezzeret and win
G3 it's another tight one but he gets the combo a turn before I can go get time sieve
Rd 4 eldra tron
G1 turn 2 thopter sword on with 2 activations... I run away with it.
He jokes that all is dust does nothing and pulls them out while sideboarding. I don't correct him
G2 I get a turn 2 thopter sword, turn 3 timesieve and the next turn start trying to go infinite with sieve. I drew 10 things in a row that gave me the 5th artifact that wasn't a land. Bauble/mox/spirit guide/prism and finally hit land. It was dope.
In conclusion: The deck ran hot, I just can't afford to punt away games in tight matchups.
As in we can theoretically take actual infinite turns putting back on top an artifact we sacrifice to foundry, eventually remove their combo, and Tezz or Thopter beat them down from a bajillion to zero because theoretical infinite turns.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Since there are variables involved with disrupting their combo (finding your removal, successfully casting it and permanently ending the combo) a judge would make you play it out long enough to disrupt their combo. Similar to how valakut players and Ad Nausem players when asked to play out their combo they must.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
The tourney I'm looking to attend (big comeback to the game!) this friday has a special big payout I'd like to spike, and a fairly set metagame. It's VERY persist-combo heavy as far as I know (knew?).
In the last year or so, IIRW it has come up at least four times that I've locked up the board with either Thopter-Sword or Bridge but can't eek out a win even if I can keep them from actually killing me, because they're on infinite life. So we start counting cards in the library
Said metagame is also particularly light on Burn, heavy on midrange-control and Hatebears decks. So my meta-call is to switch my singleton ute land from Fair to Ruins (for aforementionned reasons and also because it grinds well) and include the Sieve to go over the top of them.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
From reading what everyone is saying when you get the combo out you just keep making thopters?
Torpor orb kills combo yes. You sit on it until you believe you will win then sac it to foundry and go nuts. Its surprisingly effective since sometimes you can just wait for the ful thopter sword sieve and go off with virtually zero risk.
I dont get to many tournaments. Last week at lgs I was 3-0-1; 2-1 v merfolk 2-0 vs burn 2-0 vs bant spirits. I test a lot on cockatrice which kinda sucks because I spend a lot of time playing vs brews and fringe decks. But since I am a fringe brew myself I cant say much. But yeah I think ive played vs monoblue grand architect five times already this week :/
I have liked a 4/2 split on foundry sword, and then I prety much always shave one foundry for one tezz aob post-board.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I play 21 lands 4 serums and find it to be very balanced. I want to get to 5 mana so I can time sieve out so the extra land is important, and having serum to dodge the lands when I don't want them is quite good. Usually serum will hit a combo piece, muddle, whir, or tezzeret just by the odds. And when you whiff hard at least you got to skip 2 garbage draws with the scries.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
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Ghost quarter 100%. Tec Edge does almost nothing here because most decks function on <4 lands. Conversely few decks play more than 3-4 basic lands and some play as few as 1. The first 1-3 Ghost Quarters will at least hamper their mana base and after that you're actively strip mining them. And all that said, the biggest reason to play quarter is to disrupt Tron decks, which laugh at Tec edge.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I mean I'm not sure how non-bo serum and chalice is when you can just board out your serums when you board in chalices. But more generally I have found serum to be the glue that makes the deck work. There are a lot of cards we just don't want to draw after turn 2 or draw at all, and some very specific cards that we are looking for (usually whir/combo piece or bridge). That is the perfect storm for Serum to be amazing which is exactly what I've found it to be in this deck. I can imagine trying playing crane, push, and iok again but I cannot really imagine cutting serum visions in any build.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
People who prefer visible card advantage will go the serum route, it lets you touch lots of cards... I prefer chalice because if cast for two it can just beat people. I like cards like that.
@BadMcFadden what's your W/L like?
@offtheropes5 I LOVE crucible and in the old modern world of "make sure not to die to splinter twin then manland them to death" it was where you wanted to be, but I finally gave up the ghost (ha pun) when tron outran me even with ghost quarter crucible. It's just too slow of a card advantage engine for a format whose games are usually decided by turn 5. And whir+ghost quarters is too sad to fly.
I think a more concise argument is that lantern runs crucible ghost quarter, needs almost no colored mana, mills itself a ton to add card selection and STILL cuts crucible post side in a lot of matchups.
Tangibly? 6-1 for real tournament: 7-1 if you count bonus game vs a goblin deck.
Overall estimate with online play (cockatrice) probably like 70 percent win but I would not make much of that either way as its mostly vs tier two and brews (which can honestly be harder matchups as often as they are free wins).
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Then I switched over to Serum Visions, and from there, the playset of both visions and IoK. The difference is noticeable. (And running 4 Bauble and 4 Visions doesn't "dilute" the deck as you say, it focuses the deck toward getting the cards that are highest impact). The problem with chalice in modern is that it's not shutting off: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Reanimate, Entomb, Glimpse of Nature, Delver, DRS, Lion's Eye Diamond. The spells it is cutting off are: Thoughtseize, IoK, Bolt, Serum Visions, Push, Path, Mana Dorks, Guides and Swiftspears (if you're lucky). The difference between those two sets of cards is huge. One is a set of broken, powerhouse backbones to decks. The other is a set of very nice utility spells. But if we were to compare running 4 chalice to running 4 IoK, the tradeoff is cutting off a utility spell multiple times after turn 2, to taking a utility spell once on turn 1. In legacy, it's vital to cut off those spells permanently, but in modern?
Another problem with chalice in this deck is: how much do we actually care about that list of spells that Chalice on 1 cuts off? We care about discard, true, but only before we have the combo down. IoK protects your combo from discard in the early game, and if they don't have a discard spell in hand, we take a counterspell or a combo piece. But Path, Push, and Bolt? Meh. Visions and Mana dorks? OK. We're a deck that ignores traditional card advantage because of making thopters and bridge, and we run next to no creatures and don't care about removal.