I'm pretty surprised at the negativity towards what I feel was becoming a more standard build. I'll definitely test removing some prisms, (ideally for a 21st land at first though).
I've had a ton of success with this deck as is and many people are joining the team after watching me play it.
I just got second in a 60 person pptq, losing in the finals to 2 top decks the turn he needed them after I played through multiple hate pieces.
My record was 5/1 in Swiss. Beating dredge, uw control, 4 color non blue shadow, faeries, and Jund. losing to bring to light scape shift. In the top 8 I beat faeries and affinity to lose in the finals versus 14 sideboard cards in junk guys.
My main changes recently since getting 9th at the classic were to cut heralds for a padeem (absolute Rockstar) and 4th tezz. Herald was a great alternate win condition, but it encourages you to keep in prisms. Versus many decks I cut prisms and moxes post board to become a more control focused grindy deck. Game one however I am trying to assemble a combo or lock as soon as possible, and prism helps.
As I've said previously it's about balancing tempo and card quality to me. I prefer having the flexibility rather than having only slow grindy elements.
This deck is not about trading 1 for 1 with opponents. I feel Inquisition and push are terrible in this deck. I want to be nullifying entire portions of their deck (removal/creatures). I'd suggest trying a build without push or Inquisition if you're having a hard time.
Regarding vulnerability to discard - that and bad topdecks were a problem for me too. Moving off discard myself and on to 4 serums made a big impact and I think if you drop prisms and welding jars for chromatic spheres and muddles youll find it makes things even smoother. When nearly every nonland card is a cantrip, tutor, or combo piece things go pretty consistently smooth.
Also starting to get a feel for matchups - what do people think of our odds versus eldrazi tron? Seems rough to me unless they draw a hand that lines up well - no disruption vs fast combo, or only seer/smasher/reshaper vs bridge. Its a tall order to needle karn and ballista and get a bridge to lock down their beaters while also getting combo online past relic/all is dust/ulamog :S Would we say this is a bad match overall?
For molz - what do you think about welding jar md? Does it actually stop enough game 1 cards? Its like kcommand, decay, and pridemage basically - maybe fatal push if you use tezz minus. I actually think it might be better to drop jar and bring in a spellskite out of the board. A lot of times my stuff is getting bounced (cryptic) exiled (ulamog, dsphere) or flickered (wisp) where jar doesnt help. Skite can also eat decay and is a god card vs burn and some random stuff like bogles and kiki decks. I just dont like skite md because itll eat every terminate path push that would otherwise be dead.
Welding jar in the 75 has been extremely good. It is one of the better cards post board versus death shadow or jund/affinity in my experience. I actually preferred having 3 of them but I can't find room. Additionally in game one I normally win by landing a bridge and my opponent being unable to beat it except for a few decay/k-commands in their deck. Versus these decks like death shadow I focus on protecting a bridge, and jar is an extremely positive tempo way to do this. Worst case it helps speed up your draw game one, and normally I don't have many dead cards (since I don't play push/inquisition) so the speeding up whir's/mox is acceptable. I like jar maindeck more than any of my sideboard cards, and I want my sideboard cards I currently have. Spellskite is strong versus decks I feel we are already strong against (burn/boggles), and just opens up removal complications and clunks up the 2 drop slot more.
I'm still pretty happy and working to tweak my all-in turbo list. The biggest difference I see in our lists is the lands. Is Spire of Industry's life loss enough of an issue to skip it altogether? I like its always untapped/painless options enough to run them
When I play online I've been trying some crazier versions based around spire, but in paper tournaments I prefer consistency currently. I have had many opening hands unkeepable because of a spire not being a fetch/basic island. The life loss isn't irrelevant, but I think the manabase is pretty tight due to only running 20 lands. If I played spires I would likely go to 21. I understand it's like a 3 color land, but in an opening hand that is weak it is extremely poor. If you have an opening hand with a single spire and no 0 drop with a serum visions you can't keep it, but I'll keep that hand quite often if the land is an island and the rest is powerful enough. Additionally, if leonin arbiter picks up a ton I'd likely try some spires. One of my strang builds online I'm testing involves splashing white (and green still) for 3 mirran crusaders. It is very good versus death shadow, and I'm hoping it is a clock versus scapeshift/tron. It has been strong as an alternate win condition too, but likely not worth the complication on the mana. Just trying to explore a bit more.
I'm still playing your list. I would pay money to see a deck teck/strategy guide video from you.
I appreciate that! I'm trying to find time, just can't seem to. I travel a lot for my job and normally try to do paper magic on the weekends. I need to set up my recording software on my desktop and start recording some even if its a game at a time. Promise I will do this when I have time!
So gang, I just absolutely crushed a tournament tonight with the Super All In version. For those who didn't see my last post this is where I'm at. Forgive if numbers are off I'm doing this off the top of my head.
4 GEMSTONE CAVERNS
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Academy Ruins
3 island
4 polluted delta
2 scalding tarn
2 Spire of Industry
1 Aether Hub
4 Tezzeret
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Whir of Invention
1 Time Sieve
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Welding Jar
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Simian Spirit Guide
It just gets out of the gate so fast that most decks in the format aren't ready to deal with it. I got turn 2 Tez animate an attacking 5/5 Prism twice against both my eldrazi tron matches. Think about how insane that is to deal with. An attacking 5/5 and PW and they have two lands. It's crazy. Turn 1 chalice on one is really easy, turn one pentad prism turn two play thopter whir for sword happens a lot. The deck is insane.
So for those who don't want to jump ship on this, try the caverns. Always be on the draw and pretend your darkslicks are gemstone caverns. See how ridiculous your hands get when you have two mana on turn one.
Turn one chalice on one is "really easy" with 1 chalice, 1 guide, and 4 gemstone caverns? And there are 5 total zero mana opal enablers so you'd need 2/5 plus opal for that to be an avenue. Sounds more like christmasland than really easy. Ditto for turn 2 tezz animating a prism. Im sure it happens but easily? I doubt that very highly.
Also firing off card disadvantage for temporary mana should make it harder to get five mana sources for time sieve. I dont doubt you can get thoptersword online turn two but taping out for two fliers per turn after that is not going to beat that many decks. I hope someone else believes in that approach enough to try it and validate your enthusiasm but at a glance the probabilities on those kiler openings hapening, let alone winning games seem pretty low.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Game one gemstone mine start, get combo turn 2, turn 3 make a bunch of thopters turn 4 whir for sieve and go infinite.
Game two same basic start but a turn slower, he has some time to sculpt his hand. I end up getting thopter sword sieve with four mana, taking three extra turns when I topdeck monkey, pentad, sword #2 pass untapped at 30 life. He combos off and hits me for 18, passes back and I go infinite the next turn.
Match 2 EldraTron
Game one he keeps a one land map map hand, I have a monkey pentad prism (name map) pithing needle mox opening turn 2 tez gg
Game two I get off to a fast start, dump my hand with a bridge and tez out. He natural trons, gets ballista and shoots down tez and we get in a topdeck war. I rip land/bauble/land/bauble/land/land and he gets and endbringer. Draws like crazy and ulamogs my bridge.
Game three turn two tezzeret w prism
Match 3 Eldra Tron
Game 1 turn 2 tezzeret w prism
Game 2 slugfest that ends in him topdecking a karn a turn before I get disdainful stroke
Game 3 turn 2 tezzeret with pentad prism
Match 4
Fast starting goblins player. I go monkey land pentad turn one, he asks if it's a home brew, I say yes and he smiles and leans back. Turn two I play land thopter sword and mox and pass. He doesn't even read my card. Attacks in with 4 goblins including a legion loyalist and only announces goblin guide trigger. I get a land off it then when he asks to pass to damage I make a thopter and trigger sword. He say's "by the way battalion" sorry brother, gotta announce them triggers. I block his guide, go to 5 and he passes I untap and stabilize.
Game two I draw gopher the throat, abrupt, collective brutality gemstone hand. I just smash his stuff for a few turns and get thopter sword online at 12 life and stabilize
The things I noticed in those games were that the pithing needle and grafdiggers were just... one step lower than clunky. Definitely with upsides, but I'm wondering if there's something that can be done to smooth or add octane in those 2 slots instead. Also looking at 4 Mishra's Baubles with a skeptical eye, probably because of that improbably terrible run of cards in eldratron which is small sample. I know the obvious choice is Serum but something just feels wrong about it. The blind card to hand actually costs a lot with this deck, maybe slight of hand or peek(!) might be a better fit?
As for Aether Hub I definitely caught some of the downside this tourney. Glimmervoid is good and I'm strongly considering it against Underground River and Spire of Industry. All with big upsides. Whichever way I go that hub needs to go.
@murkemurke I've gone back and forth with him a few times trying to theoretically defend the idea. I really don't have much else to say to him but to try it or not try it. I say it works in practice, he says it's bad in theory. I don't know where else to go. Definitely open to discussion but I've deadended with him in particular.
To your crucible point, it's so tempting to jam that package in the deck but in my experience crucible is good in decks that have better chances in long game like lantern. The post whir tezzeret doesn't feel like a glass hammer, it feels like a drawer with 5 glass hammers where you can choose the one you think fits the best for the matchup.
The best way to sum it up is that the deck is closest in the way it plays to Ad Nauseum, but it's built on the lantern chassis. It's easy to lean towards tempting cards like inventor's fair (which surprisingly doesn't play very well) but I think it's better to focus on digging/powering out model for card selection.
Game one gemstone mine start, get combo turn 2, turn 3 make a bunch of thopters turn 4 whir for sieve and go infinite.
Game two same basic start but a turn slower, he has some time to sculpt his hand. I end up getting thopter sword sieve with four mana, taking three extra turns when I topdeck monkey, pentad, sword #2 pass untapped at 30 life. He combos off and hits me for 18, passes back and I go infinite the next turn.
Match 2 EldraTron
Game one he keeps a one land map map hand, I have a monkey pentad prism (name map) pithing needle mox opening turn 2 tez gg
Game two I get off to a fast start, dump my hand with a bridge and tez out. He natural trons, gets ballista and shoots down tez and we get in a topdeck war. I rip land/bauble/land/bauble/land/land and he gets and endbringer. Draws like crazy and ulamogs my bridge.
Game three turn two tezzeret w prism
Match 3 Eldra Tron
Game 1 turn 2 tezzeret w prism
Game 2 slugfest that ends in him topdecking a karn a turn before I get disdainful stroke
Game 3 turn 2 tezzeret with pentad prism
Match 4
Fast starting goblins player. I go monkey land pentad turn one, he asks if it's a home brew, I say yes and he smiles and leans back. Turn two I play land thopter sword and mox and pass. He doesn't even read my card. Attacks in with 4 goblins including a legion loyalist and only announces goblin guide trigger. I get a land off it then when he asks to pass to damage I make a thopter and trigger sword. He say's "by the way battalion" sorry brother, gotta announce them triggers. I block his guide, go to 5 and he passes I untap and stabilize.
Game two I draw gopher the throat, abrupt, collective brutality gemstone hand. I just smash his stuff for a few turns and get thopter sword online at 12 life and stabilize
The things I noticed in those games were that the pithing needle and grafdiggers were just... one step lower than clunky. Definitely with upsides, but I'm wondering if there's something that can be done to smooth or add octane in those 2 slots instead. Also looking at 4 Mishra's Baubles with a skeptical eye, probably because of that improbably terrible run of cards in eldratron which is small sample. I know the obvious choice is Serum but something just feels wrong about it. The blind card to hand actually costs a lot with this deck, maybe slight of hand or peek(!) might be a better fit?
As for Aether Hub I definitely caught some of the downside this tourney. Glimmervoid is good and I'm strongly considering it against Underground River and Spire of Industry. All with big upsides. Whichever way I go that hub needs to go.
This idea seems interesting. Gemstone cavern is definitely powerful. The matchups you listed here however I feel are all very easy. I'd be curious how this version matches versus difficult matchups. Does the extra speed help beat big tron more consistently, or scapeshift. How does it match versus death shadow grixis (this matchup is normally about grinding not speed for me). I have had many matches where 3-4 thopters per turn aren't enough, and I'd be concerned by legendary lands as bad top decks.
When I play online I've been trying some crazier versions based around spire, but in paper tournaments I prefer consistency currently. I have had many opening hands unkeepable because of a spire not being a fetch/basic island. The life loss isn't irrelevant, but I think the manabase is pretty tight due to only running 20 lands. If I played spires I would likely go to 21. I understand it's like a 3 color land, but in an opening hand that is weak it is extremely poor. If you have an opening hand with a single spire and no 0 drop with a serum visions you can't keep it, but I'll keep that hand quite often if the land is an island and the rest is powerful enough. Additionally, if leonin arbiter picks up a ton I'd likely try some spires. One of my strang builds online I'm testing involves splashing white (and green still) for 3 mirran crusaders. It is very good versus death shadow, and I'm hoping it is a clock versus scapeshift/tron. It has been strong as an alternate win condition too, but likely not worth the complication on the mana. Just trying to explore a bit more.
Why not Etched Champion instead? It's infinitely easier to cast, is tutorable, and is better against a wider variety of decks... and because you can grab it with whir, running 3 might not be necessary. Maybe I'm missing something here?
@molz7 Against GR tron I lean on fast tezzerets making 5/5 or launching toward a combo in G1
Chalice on one can be a back breaker for tron too
After board I feel we're pretty set against them with ceremonious and disdainful strokes because karn and ugin are the midgame threats that can really hobble us.
Scapeshift is tough, witchbane orb and stroke and trying to tag them early are our best bets. 50/50 on a good day, but that's why modern is dope... so much diversity you can't be a favorite against the whole field.
I'm only gonna worry about death's shadow after PTHOU because I feel it's going to get nerfed a bit. It feels like a legacy deck. Even with that it's still hovering around 50/50 which isn't bad. Another deck that a chalice on one really punishes.
When I play online I've been trying some crazier versions based around spire, but in paper tournaments I prefer consistency currently. I have had many opening hands unkeepable because of a spire not being a fetch/basic island. The life loss isn't irrelevant, but I think the manabase is pretty tight due to only running 20 lands. If I played spires I would likely go to 21. I understand it's like a 3 color land, but in an opening hand that is weak it is extremely poor. If you have an opening hand with a single spire and no 0 drop with a serum visions you can't keep it, but I'll keep that hand quite often if the land is an island and the rest is powerful enough. Additionally, if leonin arbiter picks up a ton I'd likely try some spires. One of my strang builds online I'm testing involves splashing white (and green still) for 3 mirran crusaders. It is very good versus death shadow, and I'm hoping it is a clock versus scapeshift/tron. It has been strong as an alternate win condition too, but likely not worth the complication on the mana. Just trying to explore a bit more.
Why not Etched Champion instead? It's infinitely easier to cast, is tutorable, and is better against a wider variety of decks... and because you can grab it with whir, running 3 might not be necessary. Maybe I'm missing something here?
I thought about etched champion, but on turn 3 post board versus shadow I don't always have 3 artifacts (they discard a lot). Also, if I'm whirring for 3 versus them I'm getting a bridge. A 2/2 also is much less aggressive versus tron/scapeshift than a 2/2 doublestrike. My experiment was in saying that 4 color manabase isn't that hard, so take it to an extreme of what cards I would play if I was not limited by my manabase.
My current conclusion is that it is not worth it. Clean mana is better than 4 color mana and versus many grindy decks where we want alternate win con's or haymaker cards I board out prisms/opals, hurting our mana base significantly.
Not saying it's good, saying it's my thought process. I'm trying to explore cards to shore up tron/scapeshift that have application in other matchups. I like disdainful stroke and might consider it, but not sure it is just better than thought seize.
No idea if its common tech but last night I had a valakut player hit me with two krosan grips while I had a jar out :/ not much you can do about that card and imo scapeshift is mostly about sieve combo. You might be able to contain them with liliana or bridge for titans and witchbane for valakut but you're always one disenchant away from gg and if they really do play multiple krosan grip thats pretty rough
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
From friends I've spoken with and decklists I've looked at, Natures Claim, Ancient Grudge and Rec Sage(because pact) are more common choices. Maybe another feather in Padeem's cap?
Or I could see possibly doing a grixis artifact control build with tasigur and anglers side. Especially with all the baubles, Inquisitions, brutalitys,fetches and visions. It wouldn't be hard to cast one or 2 at all. This would eliminate the bridges after boarding but since they remove most removal we'd have crazy pressure plus or combo and whatever hate we bring in. It'd be like switching the deck up. Idk. Just a thought
one plating sounds reasonable if you're running cranes, but even with cranes and foundries I'd be worried about it sitting there doing nothing too often. It's also pretty much overkill if you've put the combo out. I'd also be a bit wary of running skirge - it turns on all of their removal at no value, and if you don't have a plating or tezz its a pretty underwhelming threat.
Just important to keep in mind the worst cases for cards as well as the christmaslands. When needle/cage are useless they only cost 1 mana so they could help enable a fast whir/opal still, and when they are good they are often gamebreaking (Esp cage). Plating has a lower floor at 2cmc do-nothing, and a much riskier upside in that it doesn't do anything even ifyou have crane/skirge if they have removal -w hich they probably will since we run so few (usually zero) targetable threats.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
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Spellskite is good main if there is a lot of burn, infect and boggles.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
I'm still playing your list. I would pay money to see a deck teck/strategy guide video from you.
Also starting to get a feel for matchups - what do people think of our odds versus eldrazi tron? Seems rough to me unless they draw a hand that lines up well - no disruption vs fast combo, or only seer/smasher/reshaper vs bridge. Its a tall order to needle karn and ballista and get a bridge to lock down their beaters while also getting combo online past relic/all is dust/ulamog :S Would we say this is a bad match overall?
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Welding jar in the 75 has been extremely good. It is one of the better cards post board versus death shadow or jund/affinity in my experience. I actually preferred having 3 of them but I can't find room. Additionally in game one I normally win by landing a bridge and my opponent being unable to beat it except for a few decay/k-commands in their deck. Versus these decks like death shadow I focus on protecting a bridge, and jar is an extremely positive tempo way to do this. Worst case it helps speed up your draw game one, and normally I don't have many dead cards (since I don't play push/inquisition) so the speeding up whir's/mox is acceptable. I like jar maindeck more than any of my sideboard cards, and I want my sideboard cards I currently have. Spellskite is strong versus decks I feel we are already strong against (burn/boggles), and just opens up removal complications and clunks up the 2 drop slot more.
When I play online I've been trying some crazier versions based around spire, but in paper tournaments I prefer consistency currently. I have had many opening hands unkeepable because of a spire not being a fetch/basic island. The life loss isn't irrelevant, but I think the manabase is pretty tight due to only running 20 lands. If I played spires I would likely go to 21. I understand it's like a 3 color land, but in an opening hand that is weak it is extremely poor. If you have an opening hand with a single spire and no 0 drop with a serum visions you can't keep it, but I'll keep that hand quite often if the land is an island and the rest is powerful enough. Additionally, if leonin arbiter picks up a ton I'd likely try some spires. One of my strang builds online I'm testing involves splashing white (and green still) for 3 mirran crusaders. It is very good versus death shadow, and I'm hoping it is a clock versus scapeshift/tron. It has been strong as an alternate win condition too, but likely not worth the complication on the mana. Just trying to explore a bit more.
I appreciate that! I'm trying to find time, just can't seem to. I travel a lot for my job and normally try to do paper magic on the weekends. I need to set up my recording software on my desktop and start recording some even if its a game at a time. Promise I will do this when I have time!
4 GEMSTONE CAVERNS
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Academy Ruins
3 island
4 polluted delta
2 scalding tarn
2 Spire of Industry
1 Aether Hub
4 Tezzeret
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Whir of Invention
1 Time Sieve
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Welding Jar
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Go for the Throat
1 Collective Brutality
SB
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality
1 Padeem
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Pithing Needle
It just gets out of the gate so fast that most decks in the format aren't ready to deal with it. I got turn 2 Tez animate an attacking 5/5 Prism twice against both my eldrazi tron matches. Think about how insane that is to deal with. An attacking 5/5 and PW and they have two lands. It's crazy. Turn 1 chalice on one is really easy, turn one pentad prism turn two play thopter whir for sword happens a lot. The deck is insane.
So for those who don't want to jump ship on this, try the caverns. Always be on the draw and pretend your darkslicks are gemstone caverns. See how ridiculous your hands get when you have two mana on turn one.
Seriously guys, we're close.
Also firing off card disadvantage for temporary mana should make it harder to get five mana sources for time sieve. I dont doubt you can get thoptersword online turn two but taping out for two fliers per turn after that is not going to beat that many decks. I hope someone else believes in that approach enough to try it and validate your enthusiasm but at a glance the probabilities on those kiler openings hapening, let alone winning games seem pretty low.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Tourney recap.
Match 1 UB Storm
Game one gemstone mine start, get combo turn 2, turn 3 make a bunch of thopters turn 4 whir for sieve and go infinite.
Game two same basic start but a turn slower, he has some time to sculpt his hand. I end up getting thopter sword sieve with four mana, taking three extra turns when I topdeck monkey, pentad, sword #2 pass untapped at 30 life. He combos off and hits me for 18, passes back and I go infinite the next turn.
Match 2 EldraTron
Game one he keeps a one land map map hand, I have a monkey pentad prism (name map) pithing needle mox opening turn 2 tez gg
Game two I get off to a fast start, dump my hand with a bridge and tez out. He natural trons, gets ballista and shoots down tez and we get in a topdeck war. I rip land/bauble/land/bauble/land/land and he gets and endbringer. Draws like crazy and ulamogs my bridge.
Game three turn two tezzeret w prism
Match 3 Eldra Tron
Game 1 turn 2 tezzeret w prism
Game 2 slugfest that ends in him topdecking a karn a turn before I get disdainful stroke
Game 3 turn 2 tezzeret with pentad prism
Match 4
Fast starting goblins player. I go monkey land pentad turn one, he asks if it's a home brew, I say yes and he smiles and leans back. Turn two I play land thopter sword and mox and pass. He doesn't even read my card. Attacks in with 4 goblins including a legion loyalist and only announces goblin guide trigger. I get a land off it then when he asks to pass to damage I make a thopter and trigger sword. He say's "by the way battalion" sorry brother, gotta announce them triggers. I block his guide, go to 5 and he passes I untap and stabilize.
Game two I draw gopher the throat, abrupt, collective brutality gemstone hand. I just smash his stuff for a few turns and get thopter sword online at 12 life and stabilize
The things I noticed in those games were that the pithing needle and grafdiggers were just... one step lower than clunky. Definitely with upsides, but I'm wondering if there's something that can be done to smooth or add octane in those 2 slots instead. Also looking at 4 Mishra's Baubles with a skeptical eye, probably because of that improbably terrible run of cards in eldratron which is small sample. I know the obvious choice is Serum but something just feels wrong about it. The blind card to hand actually costs a lot with this deck, maybe slight of hand or peek(!) might be a better fit?
As for Aether Hub I definitely caught some of the downside this tourney. Glimmervoid is good and I'm strongly considering it against Underground River and Spire of Industry. All with big upsides. Whichever way I go that hub needs to go.
To your crucible point, it's so tempting to jam that package in the deck but in my experience crucible is good in decks that have better chances in long game like lantern. The post whir tezzeret doesn't feel like a glass hammer, it feels like a drawer with 5 glass hammers where you can choose the one you think fits the best for the matchup.
The best way to sum it up is that the deck is closest in the way it plays to Ad Nauseum, but it's built on the lantern chassis. It's easy to lean towards tempting cards like inventor's fair (which surprisingly doesn't play very well) but I think it's better to focus on digging/powering out model for card selection.
This idea seems interesting. Gemstone cavern is definitely powerful. The matchups you listed here however I feel are all very easy. I'd be curious how this version matches versus difficult matchups. Does the extra speed help beat big tron more consistently, or scapeshift. How does it match versus death shadow grixis (this matchup is normally about grinding not speed for me). I have had many matches where 3-4 thopters per turn aren't enough, and I'd be concerned by legendary lands as bad top decks.
Why not Etched Champion instead? It's infinitely easier to cast, is tutorable, and is better against a wider variety of decks... and because you can grab it with whir, running 3 might not be necessary. Maybe I'm missing something here?
Chalice on one can be a back breaker for tron too
After board I feel we're pretty set against them with ceremonious and disdainful strokes because karn and ugin are the midgame threats that can really hobble us.
Scapeshift is tough, witchbane orb and stroke and trying to tag them early are our best bets. 50/50 on a good day, but that's why modern is dope... so much diversity you can't be a favorite against the whole field.
I'm only gonna worry about death's shadow after PTHOU because I feel it's going to get nerfed a bit. It feels like a legacy deck. Even with that it's still hovering around 50/50 which isn't bad. Another deck that a chalice on one really punishes.
I thought about etched champion, but on turn 3 post board versus shadow I don't always have 3 artifacts (they discard a lot). Also, if I'm whirring for 3 versus them I'm getting a bridge. A 2/2 also is much less aggressive versus tron/scapeshift than a 2/2 doublestrike. My experiment was in saying that 4 color manabase isn't that hard, so take it to an extreme of what cards I would play if I was not limited by my manabase.
My current conclusion is that it is not worth it. Clean mana is better than 4 color mana and versus many grindy decks where we want alternate win con's or haymaker cards I board out prisms/opals, hurting our mana base significantly.
Not saying it's good, saying it's my thought process. I'm trying to explore cards to shore up tron/scapeshift that have application in other matchups. I like disdainful stroke and might consider it, but not sure it is just better than thought seize.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Just important to keep in mind the worst cases for cards as well as the christmaslands. When needle/cage are useless they only cost 1 mana so they could help enable a fast whir/opal still, and when they are good they are often gamebreaking (Esp cage). Plating has a lower floor at 2cmc do-nothing, and a much riskier upside in that it doesn't do anything even ifyou have crane/skirge if they have removal -w hich they probably will since we run so few (usually zero) targetable threats.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron