Both of you are arguing over minor differences really. Without the context of an expected metagame, the "choice" you make isn't really a choice. It's just guessing. This deck will never be good against everything.
For example, no one is expecting to see traditional Jund at large tournaments so if that's where you're headed next, I'd be less concerned with a possible mirror match. The online metagame as I've said previously (and as Sspeigel1987 has noted) has a lot more Affinity than live tournaments. Therefore cutting Kolaghan's Command seems silly there. With Death's Shadow decks running around everywhere it seems (live tournaments), I wouldn't be so concerned with Tron right now. I have had pretty decent success against Bant Eldrazi lately with what most would consider a stock list so I'm not sure why that's even a consideration. Bottom line: What are you preparing for?
Like I said in the beginning, I would want to change my removal suite to fit better for Death Shadow. I think the main concerns right now are Eldrazi and Death Shadow basically. We all know how to handle affinity, I expect everyone to adapt the deck for him/herself if he/she expects affinity.
MTGO is a different thing yeah, but I was talking about paper magic basically. If I would go to an paper tournament I would want to prepare for Death Shadow and Eldrazi in the first place (of course not exclusively, but thats the reason why I think it would be interesting to talk about it and find a good balance between improving Eldrazi/Death Shadow while also having game against the rest).
Like I said in the beginning, I would want to change my removal suite to fit better for Death Shadow. I think the main concerns right now are Eldrazi and Death Shadow basically. We all know how to handle affinity, I expect everyone to adapt the deck for him/herself if he/she expects affinity.
MTGO is a different thing yeah, but I was talking about paper magic basically. If I would go to an paper tournament I would want to prepare for Death Shadow and Eldrazi in the first place (of course not exclusively, but thats the reason why I think it would be interesting to talk about it and find a good balance between improving Eldrazi/Death Shadow while also having game against the rest).
I know you said that, but Sspeigel1987 referenced MTGO. The MTGO metagame is way different from paper so you both end up talking about different purposes. I mean you're only more likely to see the mirror match or Affinity on MTGO.
True, Outpost Siege keeps popping up. You called it, might be interesting to try out. The one big advantage this card has is that its difficult to remove. Having a sticky CA card could be valuable in this Fatal Push heavy format (sadly looking at Bob here)
2 Angers might indicates that more of those GWx Company decks were expected. Not sure though, it definitely can't be Eldrazi or Death Shadow. Affinity (which is more present online) certainly doesn't demand 2 Angers in the SB.
I was using Outpost Siege a lot in the past, the only reason I stopped was because Nahiri Jeskai became a card and it destroyed my anti blue bomb. It's fantastic against blue control decks, and the mirrors
I think it's way better than painful truths, for 1 more mana you get non-stop CA until they Cryptic bounce it into your hand and hope to counter it. The card is straight up gas, I've always liked it.
I've had some rough matches lately against Bogles. It's never felt like a complete blowout but hexproof does present some issues to my removal. I'm guessing the best thing to do is disrupt their hand and force them to sacrifice creatures with LotV's -2 while possibly hitting them with a Damnation? Does Anger of God's actually do anything against hexproof? The wording kind of makes it sound like it doesn't directly target creatures which would invalidate Hexproof.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern URGifts StormUR URBlue MoonUR URKiln FiendUR
True, Outpost Siege keeps popping up. You called it, might be interesting to try out. The one big advantage this card has is that its difficult to remove. Having a sticky CA card could be valuable in this Fatal Push heavy format (sadly looking at Bob here)
2 Angers might indicates that more of those GWx Company decks were expected. Not sure though, it definitely can't be Eldrazi or Death Shadow. Affinity (which is more present online) certainly doesn't demand 2 Angers in the SB.
I think you're right about Anger. Maybe more people sleeved up the Todd Stevens deck from this weekend?
Outpost Siege saw a little bit of play a couple years ago. Chandra, Pyromaster held a similar role. Chandra Torch of Defiance took the spot again, so whoever started this trend may have wanted something less fragile (the flame slash on ToD isn't very useful right now). Besides the obvious utility against control decks, these cards are amazing against Junk.
Night of Souls' Betrayal has been in a lot of sideboards lately. It's normally an infect slayer, but I think it's being used to neuter the spirit tokens out of Junk and DSJ.
Another interesting idea: Blood Moon decks aren't doing so well. DSJ functions just fine splashing a 4th color. Why not splash a watery grave and keep a couple snapcaster in the sideboard? Snapping back a fatal push or terminate sounds very attractive against DSJ and Eldrazi. If anything it's a fun FNM experiment (like that time Dark Dwellers - Boom//Bust happened).
I've had some rough matches lately against Bogles. It's never felt like a complete blowout but hexproof does present some issues to my removal. I'm guessing the best thing to do is disrupt their hand and force them to sacrifice creatures with LotV's -2 while possibly hitting them with a Damnation? Does Anger of God's actually do anything against hexproof? The wording kind of makes it sound like it doesn't directly target creatures which would invalidate Hexproof.
Anger of the Gods works fine against hexproof, but that Bogle may be too big for Anger to bring down. Edicts are great, sweepers are groovy too as long as they destroy and don't just do damage. Damnation can be just the ticket.
A cute trick is to destroy the first enchantment when they try to attach Daybreak Coronet. Don't know if it ever really happens like that in real life, but it's good to know about.
I've been bringing this list for 2 FNMs now. I went 4-0 last time and won a PR for Amonkhet. Pretty stock, the mainboard Fulminators is a concession to Tron and other ramp decks. The extra Abrupt in the SB is to combat Blood Moon and other unknown shenanigans which are also rampart in my meta. Will be slotting in a pair of Surgicals in my SB probably taking out 1 Anger and Thrun/Baloth.
I'm currently buying into jund and am wondering whether blood moon in the sideboard is still advised over fulminator mage? It seems like everyone is preferring fulminator nowadays. Also, would playing a copy of twilight mire be advisable if I plan to go with sb blood moon?
Has anyone tried out Stromkirk Occultist? I know, I know...a 3 CMC creature that dies to bolt, but so far in my limited testing, it has been surprisingly good. With all of our discard, removal and other must-kill threats, it has been like Dark Confidant #5 and #6 for me. Even if it trades with a creature, the trample damage will often still make the transaction a 2-for-1. A couple of my opponents kept their larger creatures from attacking, because they didn't want to let it attack unblocked for me to gain a card. It also has the bonus of working well with LOTV because of its Madness ability. Being a vampire can be relevant if you are using Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as well.
I really suggest testing it out. It has been better than expected for me.
Mates, the list above is what I'll test this weekend at my LGS. The meta there is pretty diverse, and i feel the list is well tuned even to an open field.
Whats your opinions
Has anyone tried out Stromkirk Occultist? I know, I know...a 3 CMC creature that dies to bolt, but so far in my limited testing, it has been surprisingly good. With all of our discard, removal and other must-kill threats, it has been like Dark Confidant #5 and #6 for me. Even if it trades with a creature, the trample damage will often still make the transaction a 2-for-1. A couple of my opponents kept their larger creatures from attacking, because they didn't want to let it attack unblocked for me to gain a card. It also has the bonus of working well with LOTV because of its Madness ability. Being a vampire can be relevant if you are using Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as well.
I really suggest testing it out. It has been better than expected for me.
It does seem decent but Tireless Tracker seems much better in that kind of a slot and people have been including it occasionally in the main or the sideboard for grindy matchups. If you drop it turn 4 and it resolves, your opponent still doesn't have priority, play a fetch, trigger goes on the stack, hold priority and fetch for your second trigger, you're going to get two clues even if they try to remove it, so it makes it much easier to get any value. Plus it can become very big very quick, get out of bolt range, and become a game ending threat while continuing to get you card advantage without having to connect with combat damage.
Mates, the list above is what I'll test this weekend at my LGS. The meta there is pretty diverse, and i feel the list is well tuned even to an open field.
Whats your opinions
Not much to say, it's stock. It all relies on your SB and what matches you expect to see. I'd squeeze in a trump card for a fair matchup though, you're super relying on the kitchen finks and fulminators to fill in for when you need to remove discard or kill spells against the fair decks
[quote from="mrc_jr »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-1-modern/770899-jund?comment=349"]Mates, the list above is what I'll test this weekend at my LGS. The meta there is pretty diverse, and i feel the list is well tuned even to an open field.
Whats your opinions
Not much to say, it's stock. It all relies on your SB and what matches you expect to see. I'd squeeze in a trump card for a fair matchup though, you're super relying on the kitchen finks and fulminators to fill in for when you need to remove discard or kill spells against the fair decks
Yeah, i thought about that too.
I'm thinking about Thrun, the Last Troll as a grinding card.
probably going to remove the single needle, suggestions?
Also you said that Blood Moon is not good enough, why you think that?
For example, no one is expecting to see traditional Jund at large tournaments so if that's where you're headed next, I'd be less concerned with a possible mirror match. The online metagame as I've said previously (and as Sspeigel1987 has noted) has a lot more Affinity than live tournaments. Therefore cutting Kolaghan's Command seems silly there. With Death's Shadow decks running around everywhere it seems (live tournaments), I wouldn't be so concerned with Tron right now. I have had pretty decent success against Bant Eldrazi lately with what most would consider a stock list so I'm not sure why that's even a consideration. Bottom line: What are you preparing for?
MTGO is a different thing yeah, but I was talking about paper magic basically. If I would go to an paper tournament I would want to prepare for Death Shadow and Eldrazi in the first place (of course not exclusively, but thats the reason why I think it would be interesting to talk about it and find a good balance between improving Eldrazi/Death Shadow while also having game against the rest).
I know you said that, but Sspeigel1987 referenced MTGO. The MTGO metagame is way different from paper so you both end up talking about different purposes. I mean you're only more likely to see the mirror match or Affinity on MTGO.
BTW: One Jund deck went 5-0 today: MTGO League
4 Dark Confidant
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Non-creature spells
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Outpost Siege
2 Surgical Extraction
In all seriousness though, there's that damn Outpost Siege again. What gives?
And 2 copies of Anger? What kind of metagame was he expecting?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
2 Angers might indicates that more of those GWx Company decks were expected. Not sure though, it definitely can't be Eldrazi or Death Shadow. Affinity (which is more present online) certainly doesn't demand 2 Angers in the SB.
I think it's way better than painful truths, for 1 more mana you get non-stop CA until they Cryptic bounce it into your hand and hope to counter it. The card is straight up gas, I've always liked it.
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
You can hope they don't open with Leyline and discard their only threat and race them
Damnation is slow, and if they have totem armor does nothing
Anger is usually not great, but can work
I think you're right about Anger. Maybe more people sleeved up the Todd Stevens deck from this weekend?
Outpost Siege saw a little bit of play a couple years ago. Chandra, Pyromaster held a similar role. Chandra Torch of Defiance took the spot again, so whoever started this trend may have wanted something less fragile (the flame slash on ToD isn't very useful right now). Besides the obvious utility against control decks, these cards are amazing against Junk.
Night of Souls' Betrayal has been in a lot of sideboards lately. It's normally an infect slayer, but I think it's being used to neuter the spirit tokens out of Junk and DSJ.
Another interesting idea: Blood Moon decks aren't doing so well. DSJ functions just fine splashing a 4th color. Why not splash a watery grave and keep a couple snapcaster in the sideboard? Snapping back a fatal push or terminate sounds very attractive against DSJ and Eldrazi. If anything it's a fun FNM experiment (like that time Dark Dwellers - Boom//Bust happened).
It's not a good idea
Anger of the Gods works fine against hexproof, but that Bogle may be too big for Anger to bring down. Edicts are great, sweepers are groovy too as long as they destroy and don't just do damage. Damnation can be just the ticket.
A cute trick is to destroy the first enchantment when they try to attach Daybreak Coronet. Don't know if it ever really happens like that in real life, but it's good to know about.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
2 Forest
14 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Fulminator Mage
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lightining Bolt
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Terminate
15 Sideboard
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Anger of the gods
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Duress
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Abrupt Decay
I really suggest testing it out. It has been better than expected for me.
Moderns land destruction sucks, unfortunately, but at least it provides more creature density and works well with K-Command
I'd buy the Twilight Mire, it works well with scavenging ooze and LOTV
Whats your opinions
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
Tks!
UR Twin - RIP
It does seem decent but Tireless Tracker seems much better in that kind of a slot and people have been including it occasionally in the main or the sideboard for grindy matchups. If you drop it turn 4 and it resolves, your opponent still doesn't have priority, play a fetch, trigger goes on the stack, hold priority and fetch for your second trigger, you're going to get two clues even if they try to remove it, so it makes it much easier to get any value. Plus it can become very big very quick, get out of bolt range, and become a game ending threat while continuing to get you card advantage without having to connect with combat damage.
Not much to say, it's stock. It all relies on your SB and what matches you expect to see. I'd squeeze in a trump card for a fair matchup though, you're super relying on the kitchen finks and fulminators to fill in for when you need to remove discard or kill spells against the fair decks
Yeah, i thought about that too.
I'm thinking about Thrun, the Last Troll as a grinding card.
probably going to remove the single needle, suggestions?
Also you said that Blood Moon is not good enough, why you think that?
UR Twin - RIP