@FlyingDelver, So I kept thinking about that deck Jadine posted. Initially I thought it was hot garbage, but the more I thought about it, the more it answers a lot of issues, simply and effectively. I still think Kalitas as a 2-of in the main deck isn't quite right, but the 4-CMC slot is always in flux and dependent on metagame anyway. The only thing that gets me about the deck overall is this: how does it deal with Bant Eldrazi and EldraziTron? Those are matches I personally have a good record against but I also recognize this is not the norm and is probably heavily influenced by other factors. The setup she presents gets wrecked so hard by those decks because those decks laugh at you when you try to go after their mana. Eldrazi Tron has Mind Stone and a Waste or two while Bant Eldrazi has mana ramp in Eldrazi Temple and Noble Hierarch. After sideboard, Bant Eldrazi also has Stubborn Denial. It just seems like a stretch to go down that road. As far as Blood Moon against Death's Shadow, that feels like a gamble. They play almost as much discard as we do so I don't know about my chances of getting that down on turn 3.
Overall, I've come around on her main deck choices. The sideboard leaves quite a bit to be desired, but I assume this is also dependent on the metagame she had in mind.
The CMC 4 slot is pretty much up in the air yeah, it needs to be adjusted according to metas. Actually, when I used Blood Moon alot in Jund, the absolute main reason for it was Bant Eldrazi. Every removal we have kills Noble Hierarch which is important. And if Blood Moon comes down, they are really screwed in my experience. They loose TKS, Smasher and Displacer activation for good. They only have Talisman of Progress as compensation since most lists don't run wastes. I think its very effective here, also according to my experience. It was always pretty much gg when I got to play BM and it hit the BF.
I think going for BM and Fatal Push can really be a good idea generally. Might be worth investigating. But I think manabases should be adjusted a little bit for BM.
@FlyingDelver, So I kept thinking about that deck Jadine posted. Initially I thought it was hot garbage, but the more I thought about it, the more it answers a lot of issues, simply and effectively. I still think Kalitas as a 2-of in the main deck isn't quite right, but the 4-CMC slot is always in flux and dependent on metagame anyway. The only thing that gets me about the deck overall is this: how does it deal with Bant Eldrazi and EldraziTron? Those are matches I personally have a good record against but I also recognize this is not the norm and is probably heavily influenced by other factors. The setup she presents gets wrecked so hard by those decks because those decks laugh at you when you try to go after their mana. Eldrazi Tron has Mind Stone and a Waste or two while Bant Eldrazi has mana ramp in Eldrazi Temple and Noble Hierarch. After sideboard, Bant Eldrazi also has Stubborn Denial. It just seems like a stretch to go down that road. As far as Blood Moon against Death's Shadow, that feels like a gamble. They play almost as much discard as we do so I don't know about my chances of getting that down on turn 3.
Overall, I've come around on her main deck choices. The sideboard leaves quite a bit to be desired, but I assume this is also dependent on the metagame she had in mind.
The CMC 4 slot is pretty much up in the air yeah, it needs to be adjusted according to metas. Actually, when I used Blood Moon alot in Jund, the absolute main reason for it was Bant Eldrazi. Every removal we have kills Noble Hierarch which is important. And if Blood Moon comes down, they are really screwed in my experience. They loose TKS, Smasher and Displacer activation for good. They only have Talisman of Progress as compensation since most lists don't run wastes. I think its very effective here, also according to my experience. It was always pretty much gg when I got to play BM and it hit the BF.
I think going for BM and Fatal Push can really be a good idea generally. Might be worth investigating. But I think manabases should be adjusted a little bit for BM.
I noticed in the SCG article about the disappearance of Jund that the decklist the author suggests plays neither K-command nor Ancient grudge, how were they planning on dealing with artifacts?
I agree with some key points in the article and others i do not. As the meta right now is in a "decent" spot, i feel that some adjustments should be made in accordance to compensate. Jadine has some decent ideations but lacks further detail. Below i will start with a my current list then elaborate.
The format focusing around primarily aggressive strategies/ Midrange-ish or grindy decks(death Shadow, Affinity and Burn or Bant Eldrazi ect.)I focused my list on maintaining and strengthening good matchups and shifting slightly to weaker more prominent ones.
Maindeck:
Creatures are pretty standard
Huntmaster is awesome value at all ends against most decks grindy and aggressive or control
Pia and kiran, cannot say enough about this card. almost as much value or arguably more than huntmaster especially under blood moon with k. commands this is a house.
Spells
3 Push seems a bit much but in light that it kills almost arguably 80% + of every creature in competitive modern i say its solid enough with death shadow and affinity and burn around.
2 Terminate is appropriate with the push's to compensate with the 1 pulse as well for big things
3-1 Lily Split, standard-ish but with the recursion of creatures or death to lingering souls or affinity things it warrants a main spot and x1 in the board
Sideboard
Brutality against burn and random such with going to 2 thoughtseize and 5 total maindeck discard spells have a few extra especially a versatile one is decent
3 Blood Moon basically the maindeck is geared to operate on a live moon and its OP against Bant Eldrazi and the dreaded tron, also notable against DS
Thragtusk is 1 green mana that serves many purposes, he is solid with moon as a threat, brings friends and life with burn even being slower and can stand up to eldrazi people
Lastly the Last Push to round out a solid 4 for well just basically good measure and making our lives easier in that respect.
Currently i have been very happy with how this list has been preforming for me on MTGO and Live
@Eternaldragon09 I like your take on the deck for the current meta. I agree with the points you made. A couple things I would do differently though. I would play at least a fourth basic in order to help with Blood Moon. I tested it enough that I can say running only 3 basics can sometimes screw yourself much more than the opponent, which is just decreasing unnecessary win% points.
I would stick with 6 discard spells. If anything, go for 3 TS and 2 IOK, TS is so much needed against Eldrazi I think. Therefore I still like 6 discard in the deck. I agree Push is probably needed, and I think going down to 3 bolts in order to do so is fine right now. Also, I like the 3 Terminate a bit more due to delve creatures.
I would play 13 creatures, 3/1 split of Lilis, and as for removal, 3 Terminate, 3 Bolt, 2 Push, 2 KCommand, 2 Decay and 1 Pulse. This way you can also run 6 discard spells.
@Everyone I agree with the points you all made. The list I posted from the article is someway weird especially regarding the SB. I think 1-2 Damnation is a must. After that EE is also great. Man I really want to make BM working in Jund, it would help so much for some matchups I think.
I'm not enthused with the prospect of playing Blood Moon even if it's currently good. When it's good, it usually means I should be playing a different deck that's more efficient.
I'm not enthused with the prospect of playing Blood Moon even if it's currently good. When it's good, it usually means I should be playing a different deck that's more efficient.
Thats the problem. Getting to run BM is not easy and other decks are much better in doing so. But it would certainly be very helpful I think if it was somehow managable to support BM and still operate on an axis traditional Jund operated.
Great counterpoints, I agree with the 4th basic being necessary for BM. And I like the idea of always having 6 discard spells, mostly being 3/3 split. And I like your take on the removal suit actually makes a lot of sense, I feel like having the access to push is so necessary right now be it either 2 or 3 and doing the reciprocal with terminate. I know terminate is such a great option for go to removal in br and it's hard to run less than 3.
Other than the damnation and EE, did you like the sideboard?
Other than the damnation and EE, did you like the sideboard?
Yeah looks pretty solid. Given your maindeck configuration I would swap duress for a second collective brutality and the fatal push for a Terminate. Since you only run 2 I think havong access to the third is valuable and Terminate can also be more effective against eldrazi and grixis decks as a sideboard card.
Fatal Push over Bolt. I didn't think it could be possible but obviously it is.
Go Logan
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"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
Yeah, it does seem good, but what keeps me thinking, is in that list, what I am really playing red for? Only KCommand, Ravine and Grudge basically. IDK about Chandra, never liked her, but I think thats what it would come down to. I like the approach but I would still play some bolts in the deck is what I am thinking.
It is a decent approach to the metagame. But I agree i can't help but think the only attractive cards here aside from bolt are command and ravine. Other than those the big draw at this moment for red vs white is blood moon for me. So with that being said I might change up the main f. Mages and maybe -1 inquisition for some bolts and side f. Mages for some number of blood moons.
I grinded out a lot of DSJ over the past few weeks along with some Junk. I decided to come back to Jund and even if it's not in the greatest place there's something about it that I still love. I've been trying Kalitas and Mom & Pop as my four drops and I've liked it so far. I'm also running two Damnations and two EE in my sideboard. I tried Yahenni's for fun but it's only good in certain situations and I'd rather have Anger of the Gods.
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Modern URGifts StormUR URBlue MoonUR URKiln FiendUR
I think I'm going to try running 23 lands for the forseeable future. There's too much flooding for me even in games that I win. I know it's going to mess with Dark Confidant triggers, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Does anyone else have experience doing this with a typical Jund setup?
I agree with you Ayiluss, it is not an ideal thing and can be bad for us if we are not expecting it. Sure i have been caught on the bad side of the red moon and its a bad day, but i think like delver suggested with the 4th basic and playing under our terms is where we want to be right now, it just shores up some important things right now. So therefore i think we should be on the moon plan as of now until there is another drastic shift, i have just had so much game with those 3 in my board over the past few months, it is such a huge bullet its like a cannon really and gives us so much more game against the decks we normally didnt have any against honestly. just my 2 cents.
Yeah, it does seem good, but what keeps me thinking, is in that list, what I am really playing red for? Only KCommand, Ravine and Grudge basically. IDK about Chandra, never liked her, but I think thats what it would come down to. I like the approach but I would still play some bolts in the deck is what I am thinking.
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
I agree with you Ayiluss, it is not an ideal thing and can be bad for us if we are not expecting it. Sure i have been caught on the bad side of the red moon and its a bad day, but i think like delver suggested with the 4th basic and playing under our terms is where we want to be right now, it just shores up some important things right now. So therefore i think we should be on the moon plan as of now until there is another drastic shift, i have just had so much game with those 3 in my board over the past few months, it is such a huge bullet its like a cannon really and gives us so much more game against the decks we normally didnt have any against honestly. just my 2 cents.
I've always thought of Blood Moon as a build-around card for Jund sideboards. Those decks seemed to have RR2 4-drops, like Chandra and P&K. SB usually includes 2x Anger while going softer on cards like Kitchen Finks, Grim Flayer, Kalitas, Damnation, and Thrun. R, XR, XR1, and XR2 spells like Kommand, Huntmaster, Terminate, and Lavamancer seem like natural fits for this kind of sideboard angle.
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Gus
The CMC 4 slot is pretty much up in the air yeah, it needs to be adjusted according to metas. Actually, when I used Blood Moon alot in Jund, the absolute main reason for it was Bant Eldrazi. Every removal we have kills Noble Hierarch which is important. And if Blood Moon comes down, they are really screwed in my experience. They loose TKS, Smasher and Displacer activation for good. They only have Talisman of Progress as compensation since most lists don't run wastes. I think its very effective here, also according to my experience. It was always pretty much gg when I got to play BM and it hit the BF.
I think going for BM and Fatal Push can really be a good idea generally. Might be worth investigating. But I think manabases should be adjusted a little bit for BM.
The CMC 4 slot is pretty much up in the air yeah, it needs to be adjusted according to metas. Actually, when I used Blood Moon alot in Jund, the absolute main reason for it was Bant Eldrazi. Every removal we have kills Noble Hierarch which is important. And if Blood Moon comes down, they are really screwed in my experience. They loose TKS, Smasher and Displacer activation for good. They only have Talisman of Progress as compensation since most lists don't run wastes. I think its very effective here, also according to my experience. It was always pretty much gg when I got to play BM and it hit the BF.
I think going for BM and Fatal Push can really be a good idea generally. Might be worth investigating. But I think manabases should be adjusted a little bit for BM.
I agree with some key points in the article and others i do not. As the meta right now is in a "decent" spot, i feel that some adjustments should be made in accordance to compensate. Jadine has some decent ideations but lacks further detail. Below i will start with a my current list then elaborate.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Spells [23]
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
3 Raging Ravine
1 Collective Brutality
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Damnation
1 Duress
1 Fatal Push
1 Thragtusk
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
The format focusing around primarily aggressive strategies/ Midrange-ish or grindy decks(death Shadow, Affinity and Burn or Bant Eldrazi ect.)I focused my list on maintaining and strengthening good matchups and shifting slightly to weaker more prominent ones.
Maindeck:
Creatures are pretty standard
Huntmaster is awesome value at all ends against most decks grindy and aggressive or control
Pia and kiran, cannot say enough about this card. almost as much value or arguably more than huntmaster especially under blood moon with k. commands this is a house.
Spells
3 Push seems a bit much but in light that it kills almost arguably 80% + of every creature in competitive modern i say its solid enough with death shadow and affinity and burn around.
2 Terminate is appropriate with the push's to compensate with the 1 pulse as well for big things
3-1 Lily Split, standard-ish but with the recursion of creatures or death to lingering souls or affinity things it warrants a main spot and x1 in the board
Sideboard
Brutality against burn and random such with going to 2 thoughtseize and 5 total maindeck discard spells have a few extra especially a versatile one is decent
3 Blood Moon basically the maindeck is geared to operate on a live moon and its OP against Bant Eldrazi and the dreaded tron, also notable against DS
Thragtusk is 1 green mana that serves many purposes, he is solid with moon as a threat, brings friends and life with burn even being slower and can stand up to eldrazi people
Lastly the Last Push to round out a solid 4 for well just basically good measure and making our lives easier in that respect.
Currently i have been very happy with how this list has been preforming for me on MTGO and Live
I would stick with 6 discard spells. If anything, go for 3 TS and 2 IOK, TS is so much needed against Eldrazi I think. Therefore I still like 6 discard in the deck. I agree Push is probably needed, and I think going down to 3 bolts in order to do so is fine right now. Also, I like the 3 Terminate a bit more due to delve creatures.
I would play 13 creatures, 3/1 split of Lilis, and as for removal, 3 Terminate, 3 Bolt, 2 Push, 2 KCommand, 2 Decay and 1 Pulse. This way you can also run 6 discard spells.
@Everyone I agree with the points you all made. The list I posted from the article is someway weird especially regarding the SB. I think 1-2 Damnation is a must. After that EE is also great. Man I really want to make BM working in Jund, it would help so much for some matchups I think.
Thats the problem. Getting to run BM is not easy and other decks are much better in doing so. But it would certainly be very helpful I think if it was somehow managable to support BM and still operate on an axis traditional Jund operated.
Great counterpoints, I agree with the 4th basic being necessary for BM. And I like the idea of always having 6 discard spells, mostly being 3/3 split. And I like your take on the removal suit actually makes a lot of sense, I feel like having the access to push is so necessary right now be it either 2 or 3 and doing the reciprocal with terminate. I know terminate is such a great option for go to removal in br and it's hard to run less than 3.
Other than the damnation and EE, did you like the sideboard?
https://twitter.com/Jaberwocki/status/848310588958679040
Yeah looks pretty solid. Given your maindeck configuration I would swap duress for a second collective brutality and the fatal push for a Terminate. Since you only run 2 I think havong access to the third is valuable and Terminate can also be more effective against eldrazi and grixis decks as a sideboard card.
Go Logan
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
Does anyone else have experience doing this with a typical Jund setup?
Huntmaster of the Fells is a pretty good reason to play red.
I've always thought of Blood Moon as a build-around card for Jund sideboards. Those decks seemed to have RR2 4-drops, like Chandra and P&K. SB usually includes 2x Anger while going softer on cards like Kitchen Finks, Grim Flayer, Kalitas, Damnation, and Thrun. R, XR, XR1, and XR2 spells like Kommand, Huntmaster, Terminate, and Lavamancer seem like natural fits for this kind of sideboard angle.