How good is Grim Lavamancer? I'm currently running one, but it feels only good against decks I already feel good against (merfolk, elves).
And what four drops are people running? I currently have two Huntmasters and an Olivia main, with a Thrun in the side. Trying to decide if I want to add a Kalitas, and if that would be a fourth four, or replacing another four drop.
Rumors are saying that we might see unbannings in the february B&R announcement, is this the time to get Jund to tier 1 again maybe?
I wouldn't be that optimistic as to say Jund would be tier 1 again, if BBE (I don't see other viable options) comes off the list. But I'm sure it would give us a chance in a very hostille metagame so keeping my fingers crossed!
BBE is 100% getting unbanned at some point. It's the most obvious choice to take off the list.
And this is useful how?
How? Mainly through a somewhat similar to collected company effect, granting us a bump in speed and consistency. I would love to see a BBE against a tron deck at 6 life with the possibility to flip a bolt off the top.
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How good is Grim Lavamancer? I'm currently running one, but it feels only good against decks I already feel good against (merfolk, elves).
And what four drops are people running? I currently have two Huntmasters and an Olivia main, with a Thrun in the side. Trying to decide if I want to add a Kalitas, and if that would be a fourth four, or replacing another four drop.
Its overall a good grindy card. Has won me control matchups in the past. Also just generally a good card if you expect many go-wide decks, token decks, which all are decks we generally can struggle against a bit sometimes. And the burn can lastly hit PWs and go face, so it provides reach also. Its just a solid card which basically never is completely bad.
Concerning 4 drops, there basically is no go-to one. We actually don't have great 4 drops for this meta. For specific metas, like at your local GS, you can run what fits best there. But assuming it looks like the general modern meta, you can maybe pick the ones which help for the hardest matchups. Olivia helps against Tokens and possibly can carry a game on her own, and even can win you the game vs. big ass eldrazis. But she is slow. Huntmaster is a solid pick which never is completely dead, which is a safe choice. Thrun is not really a MB card, you want it in the SB tough for COntrol matchups and grindy matchups. Actually, Since 4 drops are not at their best atm, people try different things in cutting down on them completey and play either more PWs, Gobling Rabblemaster (which helps potentially against our hardest matchups since it closes fast) or Tireless Tracker or something along those lines. If you have a lot of go-wide decks like Merfolk and Elves, I would probably play Kalitas and Huntmaster maybe. Olivia is also good here though. Generally, to mention, I think 3 four drops is about the max you want to have, more common is 2 or 1 4-drops now.
No. How is discussion of something that isn't relevant matter? It's not unbanned so what's the point of talking about it?
Sorry, I didn't understood you at first. I totally agree that it's pointless to discuss something that may happen 4 months from now on. I guess many of us are waiting for something new...the metagame is the same and it's bad for us. Ixalan hasn't brought anything useful, the available options were over-discussed again and again so we're kinda stuck at the moment...
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For those of you playing 23 lands, is there an average CMC you are keeping your deck under before you want to look at bumping to 24 lands?
In my experience, even if you are playing no 4 drops and your average CMC is around 2, 23 lands is still greedy. Remember we don't have card selection, only card draw from bob. Therefore missing landdrops will sometimes be an issue and cost games unnecessary.
I have tried 23 lands in a shell with no 4 drops and felt mana screwed every game. Not being able to play 2 spells a turn will hurt us.
Thats my experience as well. Don't like 23 lands only. I would play 24 always and develop a SB plan where in some games (aggro matchups) you simply cut one land maybe. Seems better than cutting the land in the first place.
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I think Kalitas and Chandra are the best 'catch all' 4 drops. Huntsmaster as well I guess, even if he can be anemic a lot of the time. But Pia and Kiran are great in several top tier matchups. Certainly worth playing if you have a lot of deaths shadow in the meta.
Well I don't think so, I did the math alongside Frank Karsten's article on the hypergeometric function for how many lands you need to consistantly make your landdrops, and we are on the low side of things when you run 23 lands. As we know Jund works great if we can cast multiple spells a turn. But alongside Ravine and the Fastlands, often you will have only 3 untapped lands on turn 4 with 23 lands only, which is really bad in my opinion.
Since you think 23 lands are fine, can you state why?
I think Kalitas and Chandra are the best 'catch all' 4 drops. Huntsmaster as well I guess, even if he can be anemic a lot of the time. But Pia and Kiran are great in several top tier matchups. Certainly worth playing if you have a lot of deaths shadow in the meta.
I certainly don't agree with this. I think the only catch all 4 drop we have is Huntmaster. Kalitas is dead against Control variants and Big Mana (not a small portion of the current metagame) and Chandra is just too weak against creature based decks (basically the other half of the meta). Besides Huntmaster I maybe can agree on PKN, has applications at least.
I think Kalitas and Chandra are the best 'catch all' 4 drops. Huntsmaster as well I guess, even if he can be anemic a lot of the time. But Pia and Kiran are great in several top tier matchups. Certainly worth playing if you have a lot of deaths shadow in the meta.
I certainly don't agree with this. I think the only catch all 4 drop we have is Huntmaster. Kalitas is dead against Control variants and Big Mana (not a small portion of the current metagame) and Chandra is just too weak against creature based decks (basically the other half of the meta). Besides Huntmaster I maybe can agree on PKN, has applications at least.
I agree completely about Kalias being mediocre or poor against half the meta, but if you utap with him against the other half you just win. Also has somewhat useful tricks up his sleeve against decks like dredge and shadow, where the exiling of creatures is relevant, but again I conceed your point on tron/ and certain control variants( I do like him against Jeskai).
Chandra is an absolue house, and is a card I love for the utility, which is why I called her a catch all I guess. 4 damage is a bit of a weird spot in modern at the moment though I guess. But I like both cards as much or more than huntsmaster right now.
I think Kalitas and Chandra are the best 'catch all' 4 drops. Huntsmaster as well I guess, even if he can be anemic a lot of the time. But Pia and Kiran are great in several top tier matchups. Certainly worth playing if you have a lot of deaths shadow in the meta.
I certainly don't agree with this. I think the only catch all 4 drop we have is Huntmaster. Kalitas is dead against Control variants and Big Mana (not a small portion of the current metagame) and Chandra is just too weak against creature based decks (basically the other half of the meta). Besides Huntmaster I maybe can agree on PKN, has applications at least.
I agree completely about Kalias being mediocre or poor against half the meta, but if you utap with him against the other half you just win. Also has somewhat useful tricks up his sleeve against decks like dredge and shadow, where the exiling of creatures is relevant, but again I conceed your point on tron/ and certain control variants( I do like him against Jeskai).
Chandra is an absolue house, and is a card I love for the utility, which is why I called her a catch all I guess. 4 damage is a bit of a weird spot in modern at the moment though I guess. But I like both cards as much or more than huntsmaster right now.
Sure Kalitas is amazing if you face a lot of creatures, but this doesn't make him a catch all.
TBH I had bad experience with Chandra in my testing. Maybe she is better than I think she is, after all there are some lists running her from the miser online Jund lists to observe. Most of the time for me she was like: Pay 4 mana, kill a creature which Push or Bolt would have also killed and then she dies the next turn from attacks. 4 mana spent there seems really bad.
I think Kalitas and Chandra are the best 'catch all' 4 drops. Huntsmaster as well I guess, even if he can be anemic a lot of the time. But Pia and Kiran are great in several top tier matchups. Certainly worth playing if you have a lot of deaths shadow in the meta.
I certainly don't agree with this. I think the only catch all 4 drop we have is Huntmaster. Kalitas is dead against Control variants and Big Mana (not a small portion of the current metagame) and Chandra is just too weak against creature based decks (basically the other half of the meta). Besides Huntmaster I maybe can agree on PKN, has applications at least.
I agree completely about Kalias being mediocre or poor against half the meta, but if you utap with him against the other half you just win. Also has somewhat useful tricks up his sleeve against decks like dredge and shadow, where the exiling of creatures is relevant, but again I conceed your point on tron/ and certain control variants( I do like him against Jeskai).
Chandra is an absolue house, and is a card I love for the utility, which is why I called her a catch all I guess. 4 damage is a bit of a weird spot in modern at the moment though I guess. But I like both cards as much or more than huntsmaster right now.
Sure Kalitas is amazing if you face a lot of creatures, but this doesn't make him a catch all.
TBH I had bad experience with Chandra in my testing. Maybe she is better than I think she is, after all there are some lists running her from the miser online Jund lists to observe. Most of the time for me she was like: Pay 4 mana, kill a creature which Push or Bolt would have also killed and then she dies the next turn from attacks. 4 mana spent there seems really bad.
She is great when that doesn't happen hahaha. Watch out for stubs tho.
Traditionally, he's not the "ideal" 3-drop in our deck, but I've been feeling like Jund needs a more reliable way aggro our opponents who are on more unfair strategies. The format is becoming more condensed in terms of deck construction, so the edge he gives may be what the deck needs.
Traditionally, he's not the "ideal" 3-drop in our deck, but I've been feeling like Jund needs a more reliable way aggro our opponents who are on more unfair strategies. The format is becoming more condensed in terms of deck construction, so the edge he gives may be what the deck needs.
Thoughts? Feelings?
Yes, we noticed it and discussed a little bit about it. Seems reasonable to me. One big reason in favour of him is the overall absence of Bolt pretty much. Otherwise Rabblemaster would just suck tbh.
Agreed. I play tested with Goblin Rabblemaster in my group and he seems like the real deal. The match-up against combo decks had a general increase. My only complaint about it was that the amassed amount 3-CMC cards in the deck are quite conflicting. The general idea is to still play 4 Liliana of the Veil, 2 kolaghan's command, and sometimes Maelstrom Pulse. Something's gotta give for the Rabblemaster's slot, right? We can't just load up at 3 and expect to curve reliably.
And what four drops are people running? I currently have two Huntmasters and an Olivia main, with a Thrun in the side. Trying to decide if I want to add a Kalitas, and if that would be a fourth four, or replacing another four drop.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423728
I think of this as a nice 2 drop, representing both removal and lifegain. Big Eldrazi? Eat my deathtouch...
Some synergy with Kalitas too!
I wouldn't be that optimistic as to say Jund would be tier 1 again, if BBE (I don't see other viable options) comes off the list. But I'm sure it would give us a chance in a very hostille metagame so keeping my fingers crossed!
How? Mainly through a somewhat similar to collected company effect, granting us a bump in speed and consistency. I would love to see a BBE against a tron deck at 6 life with the possibility to flip a bolt off the top.
Its overall a good grindy card. Has won me control matchups in the past. Also just generally a good card if you expect many go-wide decks, token decks, which all are decks we generally can struggle against a bit sometimes. And the burn can lastly hit PWs and go face, so it provides reach also. Its just a solid card which basically never is completely bad.
Concerning 4 drops, there basically is no go-to one. We actually don't have great 4 drops for this meta. For specific metas, like at your local GS, you can run what fits best there. But assuming it looks like the general modern meta, you can maybe pick the ones which help for the hardest matchups. Olivia helps against Tokens and possibly can carry a game on her own, and even can win you the game vs. big ass eldrazis. But she is slow. Huntmaster is a solid pick which never is completely dead, which is a safe choice. Thrun is not really a MB card, you want it in the SB tough for COntrol matchups and grindy matchups. Actually, Since 4 drops are not at their best atm, people try different things in cutting down on them completey and play either more PWs, Gobling Rabblemaster (which helps potentially against our hardest matchups since it closes fast) or Tireless Tracker or something along those lines. If you have a lot of go-wide decks like Merfolk and Elves, I would probably play Kalitas and Huntmaster maybe. Olivia is also good here though. Generally, to mention, I think 3 four drops is about the max you want to have, more common is 2 or 1 4-drops now.
Sorry, I didn't understood you at first. I totally agree that it's pointless to discuss something that may happen 4 months from now on. I guess many of us are waiting for something new...the metagame is the same and it's bad for us. Ixalan hasn't brought anything useful, the available options were over-discussed again and again so we're kinda stuck at the moment...
In my experience, even if you are playing no 4 drops and your average CMC is around 2, 23 lands is still greedy. Remember we don't have card selection, only card draw from bob. Therefore missing landdrops will sometimes be an issue and cost games unnecessary.
Thats my experience as well. Don't like 23 lands only. I would play 24 always and develop a SB plan where in some games (aggro matchups) you simply cut one land maybe. Seems better than cutting the land in the first place.
Well I don't think so, I did the math alongside Frank Karsten's article on the hypergeometric function for how many lands you need to consistantly make your landdrops, and we are on the low side of things when you run 23 lands. As we know Jund works great if we can cast multiple spells a turn. But alongside Ravine and the Fastlands, often you will have only 3 untapped lands on turn 4 with 23 lands only, which is really bad in my opinion.
Since you think 23 lands are fine, can you state why?
I certainly don't agree with this. I think the only catch all 4 drop we have is Huntmaster. Kalitas is dead against Control variants and Big Mana (not a small portion of the current metagame) and Chandra is just too weak against creature based decks (basically the other half of the meta). Besides Huntmaster I maybe can agree on PKN, has applications at least.
I agree completely about Kalias being mediocre or poor against half the meta, but if you utap with him against the other half you just win. Also has somewhat useful tricks up his sleeve against decks like dredge and shadow, where the exiling of creatures is relevant, but again I conceed your point on tron/ and certain control variants( I do like him against Jeskai).
Chandra is an absolue house, and is a card I love for the utility, which is why I called her a catch all I guess. 4 damage is a bit of a weird spot in modern at the moment though I guess. But I like both cards as much or more than huntsmaster right now.
Sure Kalitas is amazing if you face a lot of creatures, but this doesn't make him a catch all.
TBH I had bad experience with Chandra in my testing. Maybe she is better than I think she is, after all there are some lists running her from the miser online Jund lists to observe. Most of the time for me she was like: Pay 4 mana, kill a creature which Push or Bolt would have also killed and then she dies the next turn from attacks. 4 mana spent there seems really bad.
She is great when that doesn't happen hahaha. Watch out for stubs tho.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116688
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116664
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17278&d=306842&f=MO
Traditionally, he's not the "ideal" 3-drop in our deck, but I've been feeling like Jund needs a more reliable way aggro our opponents who are on more unfair strategies. The format is becoming more condensed in terms of deck construction, so the edge he gives may be what the deck needs.
Thoughts? Feelings?
Yes, we noticed it and discussed a little bit about it. Seems reasonable to me. One big reason in favour of him is the overall absence of Bolt pretty much. Otherwise Rabblemaster would just suck tbh.