Why did you run 2 Tarn, 1 Misty, 1 Polluted Delta, and a Flooded Strand for your fetches instead of just 4 Delta and a Strand?
Also great work with your top8. Inspired me to pick this deck up
Said in the primer:
"Why the distribution of fetches?
Lantern Control maindecks Pithing Needle. Two Scalding Tarns instead of any of the other three because it's the blue fetch that's most played in Modern, and therefore best conceals what deck this is."
Just went 4-1 in friendly league online, switched Ancestral Visions for Howling Mine, and I am probably sticking with Mine, the mines were overall drawing just too many cards by comparison to Visions, still don't know what to replace remand with in the mono blue version. 1 loss was to affinity and it was close.
thoughts on spellskite in the board? is it just bad? i also feel like im the only one testing with baral. he has been a complete powerhouse in the games that i have played. I play Mono U
thoughts on spellskite in the board? is it just bad? i also feel like im the only one testing with baral. he has been a complete powerhouse in the games that i have played. I play Mono U
Spellskite is good it has been played a lot
I played with baral as well but it doesnt have evasion so it died a bit too often to be played main. I m not sold about sideboarding it
Back on the turns game for a short while. Gonna test feasibility in the current meta as opposed to ironworks combo (which I took to a large event recently and did well with).
I like the UB version. Fixes a lot of the deck's issues in terms of burn and Aggro matchups. Saying that, I'll still test the white version because path/timely are similarly powerful options as well as stuff like stony silence.
Woop!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Your SB is very dependent on your meta. If you have lots of deaths shadow decks, it would make sense to include Chalice. If your meta is more midrange stuff, you can probably leave it out and put in the normal stuff like artifact and graveyard hate.
I had skipped on TS, as the life loss is not something I found condusive to the meta I was facing and my desire to see turn's 4 and 5, but IoK was decent.
Tasigur is good, but he fought with my pet card Temporal Trespass for Delve resources, and with our other win con's I didnt feel he made enough of an impact to stay in Black.
EDIT: Not sure if Daniel would agree, but imo if its not Push, and Brutality that you are playing, the reasons to splash black are limited.
I had skipped on TS, as the life loss is not something I found condusive to the meta I was facing and my desire to see turn's 4 and 5, but IoK was decent.
Tasigur is good, but he fought with my pet card Temporal Trespass for Delve resources, and with our other win con's I didnt feel he made enough of an impact to stay in Black.
EDIT: Not sure if Daniel would agree, but imo if its not Push, and Brutality that you are playing, the reasons to splash black are limited.
To be honest I totally forgot about Brutality. It seems like a good fit and so does 1-2x copies of Tasigur/Angler. I want to try a light splash for those and IoK.
I'm still not sure I want to do Push only because I basically NEED Fetchlands or at least that lovely manabase that Daniel developed! Thing is, that's a painful manabase, and since the aggro matchup is already an uphill struggle I really REALLY don't want to bolt myself with my landdrops.
I wouldn't build my SB that way, anyone know why he did?
Sideboards are flexible and meta-specific. If you don't agree with my choices, then by all means run whatever you want.
To be honest I totally forgot about Brutality. It seems like a good fit and so does 1-2x copies of Tasigur/Angler.
Collective Brutality actually goes incredibly well with Tasigur/Gurmag Angler. Turns can have some trouble filling its graveyard compared to other decks with delve threats, and Brutality is a great way to help enable an early delve threat by ditching 2 cards for free while getting pretty reasonable effects in the process.
if its not Push, and Brutality that you are playing, the reasons to splash black are limited.
If you're not playing some combination of Fatal Push, Brutality, and delve threats, then I agree there's not much reason to play with a black splash, as those are the black cards that I feel most help the bad matchups for mono-blue. Those three cards and Engineered Explosives and the entire reason I was splashing.
I'm still not sure I want to do Push only because I basically NEED Fetchlands
As for number of fetchlands, you don't actually need that many, as even the non-revolt mode on Push is fine (and I don't think I even Pushed a CMC 3+ creature during the whole tournament). Fetchlands do make delve creatures easier to cast, but I agree that you don't want too painful of a manabase. I've had a reasonable number of games would have completely changed based on a difference of 1 - 3ish life, so it's a tough line to walk.
I wouldn't build my SB that way, anyone know why he did?
Sideboards are flexible and meta-specific. If you don't agree with my choices, then by all means run whatever you want.
To be honest I totally forgot about Brutality. It seems like a good fit and so does 1-2x copies of Tasigur/Angler.
Collective Brutality actually goes incredibly well with Tasigur/Gurmag Angler. Turns can have some trouble filling its graveyard compared to other decks with delve threats, and Brutality is a great way to help enable an early delve threat by ditching 2 cards for free while getting pretty reasonable effects in the process.
if its not Push, and Brutality that you are playing, the reasons to splash black are limited.
If you're not playing some combination of Fatal Push, Brutality, and delve threats, then I agree there's not much reason to play with a black splash, as those are the black cards that I feel most help the bad matchups for mono-blue. Those three cards and Engineered Explosives and the entire reason I was splashing.
I'm still not sure I want to do Push only because I basically NEED Fetchlands
As for number of fetchlands, you don't actually need that many, as even the non-revolt mode on Push is fine (and I don't think I even Pushed a CMC 3+ creature during the whole tournament). Fetchlands do make delve creatures easier to cast, but I agree that you don't want too painful of a manabase. I've had a reasonable number of games would have completely changed based on a difference of 1 - 3ish life, so it's a tough line to walk.
That's actually a really important point about the Revolt mode. I suppose in high-tier metas, you really aren't going to see creatures with costs that large outside of Eldrazi Tron. At my LGS there are some jankier brews and decks that still rock Siege Rhino, but I never had an issue wiping any of them out.
Without bothering to check, I think your list only included 2x Fatal Push, that's hardly an intense investment. If you think this type of deck can get away with only a handful (say 3-6) of Fetchlands, I'm definitely going to try it!!
....maybe with an Elixir of Immortality though because even though I don't care about self-mill, I do love the 5+ life.
Porphyry Nodes!!! Doing the traditional build, but splashing white for Nodes instead of Remand. This might be what I've been looking for, I'll keep updated!
So far, if they stop casting creatures to get it to go away, that slows them down! If they try to race it and dump their creatures, all the stall effects are just that much more awesome!
I'm very interested in how Porphyry Nodes performs. The main issue I see with it is not impacting the board until the next upkeep, but the potential upside seems huge enough to be worth it. And for just one mana too!
I think Kor Firewalker might be one of the best sideboard card against burn from white, it is a combined suggested wall type card (Spellskite, Thing in the Ice, etc) AND a combined life gain slowly card (Dragon's Claw, Sun Droplet) and on top of that, it's pro red & not an artifact! After that if they don't have Skull Crack, Timely Reinforcements I think might be the next best. If they do have Skull Crack, then they have it.
I don't know if graveyard hate is needed, as there's no super fast graveyard based decks. That opens up more sideboard slots. Not 100% on this yet though, currently it's GP Cleveland and I'm not playing as much this weekend, but I have now obtained the cards in paper for this deck in addition to magic online, for mono blue & blue white. Not sure if Spreading Sea's is needed either, but I own a playset. Right now I have like 40 something sideboard card possibilities, just bought them all, so going back and forth with a few things.
Chalice of the Void seems like another very nice option, against some decks it just says "Half your deck is now irrelevant until you deal with me". But chalice's are expensive, so this is 1 card I don't have, at least not yet.
Supreme Verdict is a possibility in the sideboard, so I picked up a playset. Also have both Hurkyl's Recall & Stony Silence, could do a 3/3 split. If I care about affinity & other artifact based decks that much.
Porphyry Nodes is helpful against the Cursecatcher problem against Merfolk. But they can still sneak 1 in with a Vial at 1 if they see that coming.
The cards I hate going against most right now are Eidolon of the Great Revel, Thought-Knot Seer, Liliana of the Veil, though it's discard effect is negated by howling mine effects, the ultimate is what can get annoying if it goes that far. Cursecatcher could possibly be on this list & the possibly 5th most annoying card is Cranial Plating, instant equip change in a deck that can drop it's army in the first 2 turns.
I don't like Leyline of Sanctity, if it's not in your opener it comes down turn 4, and when it is, against burn they will likely blow it up enough of the time. I don't like the idea of aggressively mulliganing for a card either as that can eat your hand up, and card disadvantage doesn't seem worth it.
Gigadrowse / Exhaustion might be my favorite cards in the deck, they are basically time walks that are cheaper to cast. Also Gigadrowse against counterspells is SWEET!. I've noticed this a lot as well. If the opponent does a land drop on their first turn, but does nothing else, when it gets to their next turn, I'll tap the 1 land on the upkeep, and they'll play a second land in the main phase and they're on 1 land for the entire turn again. Has worked even worked against Expedition Map in play on their turn 1, since that means they can't crack it till their turn 3. This also helps against a turn 2 Eidolon of the Great revel against burn, if you're running remand, you can then next turn remand the Eidolon, preventing it from coming down for another turn as that thing's annoying. (Currently however I've cut remand for porphyry nodes as I think remand is the weakest card in the mono blue version, compared to all the other cards, too much stuff in modern is just too cheap to cast. I also feel Cryptic Command is not super great at 4 mana, but the 4 options combined make it too useful. Though it's rare, sometimes there's no creatures to tap, no permanents needed to bounce, no spell to counter, & you're basically just drawing a card, but if that is your situation, you're probably looking good anyway!)
I'll continue to keep updated, but it's a slow weekend for playing as during events like this weekend, I am on the floor trading alters 90% of the time, but come monday it's back to modo & more turns!!! I guess that's all for now, keep turning cards sideways, & taking turns, zing! 8-)
-edited- as far as the lands go, currently doing 22 lands: 6 fetchlands, 2 Glacial Fortress, 1 Hallowed Fountain, 8 Island, 1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, 1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge, 1 Plains, 1 Geier Reach Sanitarium, 1 Prairie Stream.
Do I want to cut 1 island for a 1 of Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, to help against potential chokes/boils?
Do I want to cut 2 fetchlands for a 3rd Glacial Fortress & another UW Dual land? (Gives another land that helps against potential chokes/boils +1'ing the Glacial, however 3 Glacial's increases the chances of having 2 in an opener.)
Do I really need Geier Reach Sanitarium? Just some thoughts about lands I'm going over in my head.
Now that I've tried Howling Mine, I will likely not go back to Ancestral Vision, as much as I love that card, the Howling Mine's are drawing way more cards and I can't ignore that. Now officially on the Howling Mine side of the argument.
Hope I'm making sense & it helps at all, but if not, I'm at least figuring this thing out, or like to think I'm going in the right direction, can't get there by not trying! 8-)
"Why the distribution of fetches?
Lantern Control maindecks Pithing Needle. Two Scalding Tarns instead of any of the other three because it's the blue fetch that's most played in Modern, and therefore best conceals what deck this is."
EDIT: I should rephrase that. I wouldn't build my SB that way, anyone know why he did?
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
You have anti artifact, needed in Affinity and Lantern.
You have anti burn and affinity in Brutality.
The sideboard is pretty normal for turns?
Spirits
beat eldrazi / rg tron / scapeshift / zoo
Spellskite is good it has been played a lot
I played with baral as well but it doesnt have evasion so it died a bit too often to be played main. I m not sold about sideboarding it
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
I like the UB version. Fixes a lot of the deck's issues in terms of burn and Aggro matchups. Saying that, I'll still test the white version because path/timely are similarly powerful options as well as stuff like stony silence.
Woop!
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
3 Spreading sea's
3 Thing in the ice
2 Dispel
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
2 Hurkyls Recall
1 Vendilion Clique
Spirits
Tasigur is good, but he fought with my pet card Temporal Trespass for Delve resources, and with our other win con's I didnt feel he made enough of an impact to stay in Black.
EDIT: Not sure if Daniel would agree, but imo if its not Push, and Brutality that you are playing, the reasons to splash black are limited.
Spirits
To be honest I totally forgot about Brutality. It seems like a good fit and so does 1-2x copies of Tasigur/Angler. I want to try a light splash for those and IoK.
I'm still not sure I want to do Push only because I basically NEED Fetchlands or at least that lovely manabase that Daniel developed! Thing is, that's a painful manabase, and since the aggro matchup is already an uphill struggle I really REALLY don't want to bolt myself with my landdrops.
Sideboards are flexible and meta-specific. If you don't agree with my choices, then by all means run whatever you want.
Collective Brutality actually goes incredibly well with Tasigur/Gurmag Angler. Turns can have some trouble filling its graveyard compared to other decks with delve threats, and Brutality is a great way to help enable an early delve threat by ditching 2 cards for free while getting pretty reasonable effects in the process.
If you're not playing some combination of Fatal Push, Brutality, and delve threats, then I agree there's not much reason to play with a black splash, as those are the black cards that I feel most help the bad matchups for mono-blue. Those three cards and Engineered Explosives and the entire reason I was splashing.
As for number of fetchlands, you don't actually need that many, as even the non-revolt mode on Push is fine (and I don't think I even Pushed a CMC 3+ creature during the whole tournament). Fetchlands do make delve creatures easier to cast, but I agree that you don't want too painful of a manabase. I've had a reasonable number of games would have completely changed based on a difference of 1 - 3ish life, so it's a tough line to walk.
That's actually a really important point about the Revolt mode. I suppose in high-tier metas, you really aren't going to see creatures with costs that large outside of Eldrazi Tron. At my LGS there are some jankier brews and decks that still rock Siege Rhino, but I never had an issue wiping any of them out.
Without bothering to check, I think your list only included 2x Fatal Push, that's hardly an intense investment. If you think this type of deck can get away with only a handful (say 3-6) of Fetchlands, I'm definitely going to try it!!
....maybe with an Elixir of Immortality though because even though I don't care about self-mill, I do love the 5+ life.
So far, if they stop casting creatures to get it to go away, that slows them down! If they try to race it and dump their creatures, all the stall effects are just that much more awesome!
I don't know if graveyard hate is needed, as there's no super fast graveyard based decks. That opens up more sideboard slots. Not 100% on this yet though, currently it's GP Cleveland and I'm not playing as much this weekend, but I have now obtained the cards in paper for this deck in addition to magic online, for mono blue & blue white. Not sure if Spreading Sea's is needed either, but I own a playset. Right now I have like 40 something sideboard card possibilities, just bought them all, so going back and forth with a few things.
Chalice of the Void seems like another very nice option, against some decks it just says "Half your deck is now irrelevant until you deal with me". But chalice's are expensive, so this is 1 card I don't have, at least not yet.
Supreme Verdict is a possibility in the sideboard, so I picked up a playset. Also have both Hurkyl's Recall & Stony Silence, could do a 3/3 split. If I care about affinity & other artifact based decks that much.
Porphyry Nodes is helpful against the Cursecatcher problem against Merfolk. But they can still sneak 1 in with a Vial at 1 if they see that coming.
The cards I hate going against most right now are Eidolon of the Great Revel, Thought-Knot Seer, Liliana of the Veil, though it's discard effect is negated by howling mine effects, the ultimate is what can get annoying if it goes that far. Cursecatcher could possibly be on this list & the possibly 5th most annoying card is Cranial Plating, instant equip change in a deck that can drop it's army in the first 2 turns.
I don't like Leyline of Sanctity, if it's not in your opener it comes down turn 4, and when it is, against burn they will likely blow it up enough of the time. I don't like the idea of aggressively mulliganing for a card either as that can eat your hand up, and card disadvantage doesn't seem worth it.
Gigadrowse / Exhaustion might be my favorite cards in the deck, they are basically time walks that are cheaper to cast. Also Gigadrowse against counterspells is SWEET!. I've noticed this a lot as well. If the opponent does a land drop on their first turn, but does nothing else, when it gets to their next turn, I'll tap the 1 land on the upkeep, and they'll play a second land in the main phase and they're on 1 land for the entire turn again. Has worked even worked against Expedition Map in play on their turn 1, since that means they can't crack it till their turn 3. This also helps against a turn 2 Eidolon of the Great revel against burn, if you're running remand, you can then next turn remand the Eidolon, preventing it from coming down for another turn as that thing's annoying. (Currently however I've cut remand for porphyry nodes as I think remand is the weakest card in the mono blue version, compared to all the other cards, too much stuff in modern is just too cheap to cast. I also feel Cryptic Command is not super great at 4 mana, but the 4 options combined make it too useful. Though it's rare, sometimes there's no creatures to tap, no permanents needed to bounce, no spell to counter, & you're basically just drawing a card, but if that is your situation, you're probably looking good anyway!)
I'll continue to keep updated, but it's a slow weekend for playing as during events like this weekend, I am on the floor trading alters 90% of the time, but come monday it's back to modo & more turns!!! I guess that's all for now, keep turning cards sideways, & taking turns, zing! 8-)
-edited- as far as the lands go, currently doing 22 lands: 6 fetchlands, 2 Glacial Fortress, 1 Hallowed Fountain, 8 Island, 1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, 1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge, 1 Plains, 1 Geier Reach Sanitarium, 1 Prairie Stream.
Do I want to cut 1 island for a 1 of Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, to help against potential chokes/boils?
Do I want to cut 2 fetchlands for a 3rd Glacial Fortress & another UW Dual land? (Gives another land that helps against potential chokes/boils +1'ing the Glacial, however 3 Glacial's increases the chances of having 2 in an opener.)
Do I really need Geier Reach Sanitarium? Just some thoughts about lands I'm going over in my head.
Now that I've tried Howling Mine, I will likely not go back to Ancestral Vision, as much as I love that card, the Howling Mine's are drawing way more cards and I can't ignore that. Now officially on the Howling Mine side of the argument.
Hope I'm making sense & it helps at all, but if not, I'm at least figuring this thing out, or like to think I'm going in the right direction, can't get there by not trying! 8-)
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island