It does not seem to matter how far behind we are on board position and life count as long as we do not fall behind on land count. If you are wanting to swing the board state into your favor and then crush in for beats I would lean more toward Torrential Gearhulk as a card to help us turn the corner (in a more traditional Uw control kinda way). Him being able to give us yet another Cryptic Command to tap blockers and bounce a manland then swing in for 5 seems like exactly what we need most of the time.
He is probably the closest we have to a high power finisher that effectively gives us another turn when we cast him (besides of course Emrakul)
I play Part The Waterveil, Snap, Colonnade and Thing in The ice. The snaps and Colonnades are very slow win-cons, which force you to take at least 6-9 turns consecutively (to either get to the land count of the Colonnade or hit with snap a bunch of times), which is not always possible, specially to also ensure that the creatures won't die to Push at some point.
The Things get sideboarded out against decks that are a pile of interaction (discard and removal), so it is not uncommon to be a bit threat light against decks that run Extraction and Push (which is like 30% of the meta right now).
Ojutai just does so much in this deck.
Its definitely not good against aggressive decks like Burn, since we don't have the time and we need to be lean.
Never tried Emrakul. What is the advantage here? If you are getting to 15 mana with a card stuck in hand that is useless until that point you could have won with a sandwich at that point. Is it just the sweet "I just cast Emrakul" feeling.
@purklefluff, hey what do you think about adding a FAQ section on card choices. Seems like we have "why should we play ______ card" every few weeks. And if we add the pros/cons of certain cards, we dont have to debate the same thing over and over everytime someone new joins.
Sometimes its more like "why we shouldn't play ______ card"
He has already promised us he would work on a list of cards that only sometimes show up (a maybe-board), your basically asking for a short paragraph for each one of those cards. All of this takes time, and I expect any advances to happen in phases. If your in a rush I bet he would apreciate help. I hope he has some time off soon.
I want to see his list so I can add a few sugestions for cards that almost make the cut. And the many, many sideboard options we have available to us.
I play Part The Waterveil, Snap, Colonnade and Thing in The ice. The snaps and Colonnades are very slow win-cons, which force you to take at least 6-9 turns consecutively (to either get to the land count of the Colonnade or hit with snap a bunch of times), which is not always possible, specially to also ensure that the creatures won't die to Push at some point.
The Things get sideboarded out against decks that are a pile of interaction (discard and removal), so it is not uncommon to be a bit threat light against decks that run Extraction and Push (which is like 30% of the meta right now).
Ojutai just does so much in this deck.
Its definitely not good against aggressive decks like Burn, since we don't have the time and we need to be lean.
Never tried Emrakul. What is the advantage here? If you are getting to 15 mana with a card stuck in hand that is useless until that point you could have won with a sandwich at that point. Is it just the sweet "I just cast Emrakul" feeling.
I play Part The Waterveil, Snap, Colonnade and Thing in The ice. The snaps and Colonnades are very slow win-cons, which force you to take at least 6-9 turns consecutively (to either get to the land count of the Colonnade or hit with snap a bunch of times), which is not always possible, specially to also ensure that the creatures won't die to Push at some point.
The Things get sideboarded out against decks that are a pile of interaction (discard and removal), so it is not uncommon to be a bit threat light against decks that run Extraction and Push (which is like 30% of the meta right now).
Ojutai just does so much in this deck.
Its definitely not good against aggressive decks like Burn, since we don't have the time and we need to be lean.
Never tried Emrakul. What is the advantage here? If you are getting to 15 mana with a card stuck in hand that is useless until that point you could have won with a sandwich at that point. Is it just the sweet "I just cast Emrakul" feeling.
Reshuffle effect for jace
Interesting. Do you find you need to reshuffle a lot? I have never played the version that wins by milling, and have only ever lost to milling myself like 2-3 times in like 200 matches.
Edit: While we are at it, can I propose two additions to the primer?
1- I think the matchup section would be pretty intersting to have since it might generate some discussions around the benefits of different versions of the deck. I have my info from ~150 matches that offer at least a starting point.
2- I was checking the 'card choices' section, and I think it might benefit from a "win conditions" section to discuss what we have been talking in the last few posts.
I play Part The Waterveil, Snap, Colonnade and Thing in The ice. The snaps and Colonnades are very slow win-cons, which force you to take at least 6-9 turns consecutively (to either get to the land count of the Colonnade or hit with snap a bunch of times), which is not always possible, specially to also ensure that the creatures won't die to Push at some point.
The Things get sideboarded out against decks that are a pile of interaction (discard and removal), so it is not uncommon to be a bit threat light against decks that run Extraction and Push (which is like 30% of the meta right now).
Ojutai just does so much in this deck.
Its definitely not good against aggressive decks like Burn, since we don't have the time and we need to be lean.
Never tried Emrakul. What is the advantage here? If you are getting to 15 mana with a card stuck in hand that is useless until that point you could have won with a sandwich at that point. Is it just the sweet "I just cast Emrakul" feeling.
Reshuffle effect for jace
Interesting. Do you find you need to reshuffle a lot? I have never played the version that wins by milling, and have only ever lost to milling myself like 2-3 times in like 200 matches.
Edit: While we are at it, can I propose two additions to the primer?
1- I think the matchup section would be pretty intersting to have since it might generate some discussions around the benefits of different versions of the deck. I have my info from ~150 matches that offer at least a starting point.
2- I was checking the 'card choices' section, and I think it might benefit from a "win conditions" section to discuss what we have been talking in the last few posts.
Happy to help with either of those.
Main wincon is ptw. I prefer to have a better game 1 against Abzan and since i play a jace a reshuffle effect is Basically an auto include. Choice is between elixir of immortality and emrakul and i prefer the titan
Was just thinking on Gearhulk interactions in this deck and there isn't really much for him besides cryptic and remands. You could try Running Time Stop as a sort pseudo instant speed time walk though. I imagine that'd be infuriating for your opponent Doubles as a neat counterspell too
Was just thinking on Gearhulk interactions in this deck and there isn't really much for him besides cryptic and remands. You could try Running Time Stop as a sort pseudo instant speed time walk though. I imagine that'd be infuriating for your opponent Doubles as a neat counterspell too
I never liked that time stop gives them an untap step, so i dont think i would consider it very viable.
Theres really no reason to bend over backwards to make gearhulk better for us. Going up to four Cryptics should make your 1-2 gearhulks almost always have good ammo by turn 6.
If thats not enough target density for you then perhaps cramming in a couple extra Unsubstantiate?
I would love for someone to test a list involving gearhulks and get back to us on how it goes.
I think AV would work best in some sort of UW shell, where the deck is initially less focused on comboing and more on control until we can combo. I mean I think it is a good spell in mono U, but it might not be 100% in just a default list, maybe a list that is more built around AV.
I love AV,still run the full four,and I run four mines and only two dictates.
I really like the possibilities,turn one AV,turn two mine/seas,turn 3 exhaustion/dictate/jace,lens,turn four hold counterspells or play any of the above.Can also go off if lens resolved.
I look at AV as giving me ten mine effects,and the first one almost always resolves,unlike dictates.
But everyone has their own style of play/preferences.
Has anyone tried disrupting shoal? We have a pretty nice curve in the early game w/ blue spells to hit a wide variety of targets with it and Dictate/Mine have the potential to overcome the card disadvantage from it as well. I'm tempted to give it a shot, thoughts?
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
The same could be said about emmy but...
So some people still want to play with AV and still want to discuss it,whats wrong with that?Isnt that what the forum is for?
You have a personal preference on how you run your deck such as emmy,myself it's lens,what wrong with that?
Emrakul and lenses arent really comparable. Also i already explained the different roles she has in my 75
Dont focus on my list but focus on yours. Playing 2 dictate is wrong playing 10 cards between av howling mine and dictate is wrong. I think everyone will say the same and that's not a 1 pet card that sinergies well with how the deck works like my list, but bad deck building because you are not playing 4-8 cards that would improve yours
- ptw
- jace
- emrakul
- snapcaster
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
He is probably the closest we have to a high power finisher that effectively gives us another turn when we cast him (besides of course Emrakul)
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
The Things get sideboarded out against decks that are a pile of interaction (discard and removal), so it is not uncommon to be a bit threat light against decks that run Extraction and Push (which is like 30% of the meta right now).
Ojutai just does so much in this deck.
Its definitely not good against aggressive decks like Burn, since we don't have the time and we need to be lean.
Never tried Emrakul. What is the advantage here? If you are getting to 15 mana with a card stuck in hand that is useless until that point you could have won with a sandwich at that point. Is it just the sweet "I just cast Emrakul" feeling.
He has already promised us he would work on a list of cards that only sometimes show up (a maybe-board), your basically asking for a short paragraph for each one of those cards. All of this takes time, and I expect any advances to happen in phases. If your in a rush I bet he would apreciate help. I hope he has some time off soon.
I want to see his list so I can add a few sugestions for cards that almost make the cut. And the many, many sideboard options we have available to us.
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
Reshuffle effect for jace
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Interesting. Do you find you need to reshuffle a lot? I have never played the version that wins by milling, and have only ever lost to milling myself like 2-3 times in like 200 matches.
Edit: While we are at it, can I propose two additions to the primer?
1- I think the matchup section would be pretty intersting to have since it might generate some discussions around the benefits of different versions of the deck. I have my info from ~150 matches that offer at least a starting point.
2- I was checking the 'card choices' section, and I think it might benefit from a "win conditions" section to discuss what we have been talking in the last few posts.
Happy to help with either of those.
Main wincon is ptw. I prefer to have a better game 1 against Abzan and since i play a jace a reshuffle effect is Basically an auto include. Choice is between elixir of immortality and emrakul and i prefer the titan
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
I never liked that time stop gives them an untap step, so i dont think i would consider it very viable.
Theres really no reason to bend over backwards to make gearhulk better for us. Going up to four Cryptics should make your 1-2 gearhulks almost always have good ammo by turn 6.
If thats not enough target density for you then perhaps cramming in a couple extra Unsubstantiate?
I would love for someone to test a list involving gearhulks and get back to us on how it goes.
Uw Taking Turns
The Bad Moon
Small Mardu Midrange
Big Mardu Midrange
Grixis Waste Not Combo
Bw 8-Rack
Bw Midrange
I.e: With a Mine:
- turn 5: draw 2 cards
- turn 6: draw 2 cards
- turn 7: draw 2 cards
Total: 6 cards
Without a Mine:
- turn 5: draw 4 cards
- turn 6: draw 1 card
- turn 7: draw 1 card
Total: 6 cards
In essence, it allows you to 'go off' with less permanents on the table.
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
I really like the possibilities,turn one AV,turn two mine/seas,turn 3 exhaustion/dictate/jace,lens,turn four hold counterspells or play any of the above.Can also go off if lens resolved.
I look at AV as giving me ten mine effects,and the first one almost always resolves,unlike dictates.
But everyone has their own style of play/preferences.
4av and 4mines is 8 cards VS 6 mines. 2 cards that could be interaction and would win you a game maybe
Also dictate is our best mine and you should play 4.
Why lens? It is two years we moved away from it you should do that aswell to improve the deck
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
So some people still want to play with AV and still want to discuss it,whats wrong with that?Isnt that what the forum is for?
You have a personal preference on how you run your deck such as emmy,myself it's lens,what wrong with that?
Dont focus on my list but focus on yours. Playing 2 dictate is wrong playing 10 cards between av howling mine and dictate is wrong. I think everyone will say the same and that's not a 1 pet card that sinergies well with how the deck works like my list, but bad deck building because you are not playing 4-8 cards that would improve yours
Caring to share your 75?
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island