Dang Moose, I LOVE that list! Just pulled the trigger on a pack foil Search and ready to modify my mono-U build to the UB. Are you running the multiple 1-of fetches to get around the Pithing Needle shenanigans? Thoughts on not running either of the "flex" cards that are Remand and Spreading Seas?
Are 5 fetches really enough to turn on Fatal Push when required?
i feel sorry if you don't see much changes to the primer, but i note that the deck is still solved and we aren't getting much toys to play with.. so there isn't much to change sadly :/ i'm not very active in the forum but i always read you guys
I've been playing a bit recently but with humans and jeskai control/midrange working their way up to tier 2 and 1 respectively, I've been having issues. Humans is potentially a horrendous matchup depending on the build and jeskai *is* a very bad matchup.
The metagame is a pendulum. In a few weeks I'll be back slamming turns and happy as Larry. For now I'm taking a short break and joining the dark side. Got my meddling mages sleeved up and ready to go.
See y'all in a bit xx
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I could see Spell Snare coming back in vogue for this archetype. It catchs many troublesome cards that our opponents are likely to mull into.
I have to update my list but lately I've stuck with 4/4 Serum/Opt and 1 Search for Azcanta.
I think the legendary enchantment can replace at least 1 howling mine (maybe 2?). Lets us dig deeper when we need specific cards and in corners cases let you see if you can cast Dictate on your upkeep safely (either a miracle on top with enough mana to cast both or just dictate with no miracle on top)
For now I'm back to Bant eldrazi but i'll be testing taking turn shortly again
Has anyone been experimenting with Commandeer? I recently went to 4 Serum Visions and 2 Opt to add one to the main and then I have one in the sideboard, as well. It's been surprisingly nifty. Stealing walkers from Tron has been great. It is surprisingly relevant against burn or u/w control. Thoughts?
Has anyone been experimenting with Commandeer? I recently went to 4 Serum Visions and 2 Opt to add one to the main and then I have one in the sideboard, as well. It's been surprisingly nifty. Stealing walkers from Tron has been great. It is surprisingly relevant against burn or u/w control. Thoughts?
I'm currently running only 1 in my 75 (sideboard) but used to have 1 main. I don't run into many walkers or relevant targets which is why the shift but in a tron heavy meta, it certainly is worth a look, if not a slot.
Running a 1-of search tonight and upped snapcaster to 3. 4/3 split on serum visions/opt because I felt like 4 opt was too much, and not ready to cut down to 2. Another change is moving cryptic command up to 3 in the main and dropping spreading seas to the board (x2). Removed the 4th gigadrowse from my board and added 2x spell pierce. Will report back my results.
Running a 1-of search tonight and upped snap aster to 3. 4/3 split on serum visions/opt because I felt like 4 opt was too much, and not ready to cut down to 2. Another change is moving cryptic command up to 3 in the main and dropping spreading seas to the board (x2). Removed the 4th gigadrowse from my board and added 2x spell pierce. Will report back my results.
Can you post an updated list along with your report?
Report from last night is not great:
Lost round 1 to two REALLY fast starts. Game 1 was ALL burn spells to the dome while game 2 was ALL creatures. I didn't have any gigadrowse or exhaustion to slow the threat.
Round 2 was vs mono green stompy and won 2-0. Game 1 I did get down to 1 life from an explosive start into khalni hydra and a 8/8 walking ballista. When he cast the ballista I was at 16 with snappy on board. He pinged the mage and swung with hydra putting me to 8. I proceeded to combo off bouncing the ballista which triggered him to remove all counters putting me at 1. The snappy ping cost him the game! Game 2 went much worse for the opponent.
Round 3 vs a skilled Jund opponent that knew my deck off a turn 1 IoK with only islands, 1 snappy, 2 gigadrowse and mikokoro in hand. His hand was not great and I won. Game 2'he mulled to 6 and kept a poor hand. 2 SB seas on his only red sources worked out really well for me. During game 2 he mentioned that the decks owner suggested 'removing one of the stomping ground for another verdant catacombs' thinking there were 2 grounds in the deck; there weren't. Only a blood crypt and blackcleave cliffs. When both of those are spread, hard to cast red spells 😉 Won 2-0
I haven't played against the goryo's vengeance deck before and in round 4, that's what I got to face. It is seriously fast. Lost 0-2 in about 8 minutes. Remember the card guttural response, it's a doozy.
Overall, not sure what I'd change. Didn't face the boogeyman GDS or any Tron variant so I'm not sure the evening was too conclusive. Search resolved 2 times and both times it didn't really matter cuz it was during 'turns' but I can certainly see a turn 2-4 being quite nice!
I was without an LGS for a while but recently found out about a new store near me offering Modern FNM so I got to pull out the old Turns deck. There were only about 16 players compared to the 30+ we used to get at the old place but I went 5-0 to win the event. 3 rounds of swiss then cut to top 4.
Round 1 2-0 vs Julian Grace-Martin playing the Hollow One/Vengevine aggro deck he debuted at SCG Syracuse over the summer.
Lost the die roll but he didn't have insane starts, I was able to keep his threats tapped down and comboed off pretty easily in both games. Brought in 2 Relic of Progenitus which helped in Game 2. Relic is great to bring in place of a couple Remands in a lot of matchups.
Round 2 2-0 vs Esper Spirits
This was kind of a brew and he just wasn't even close to fast enough. Lost the die roll again but luck was definitely "on my side" as I started with Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter both games.
Round 3 2-1 vs U/W Merfolk
Interesting deck, playing white for sideboard stuff, and Remands maindeck instead of Cursecatcher. Game 1 I didn't play around Remand and he Remanded my Time Warp two turns in a row to win the game. Games 2+3 I made sure to Gigadrowse him on end step before going off.
Top 4 2-1 vs same guy on U/W Merfolk
I lost game 2 due to never finding a Mine effect even after casting 4 cantrips but games 1+3 were pretty textbook.
Finals 1-0 vs Grixis Delver
We decided to split the prize packs, but there was an odd number so we played one game for the extra pack. I kept 4 lands and 3 Mines/Dictates and was able to win pretty easily through Thoughtseize, Delver etc.
I've been running pretty well lately (9-1 in past two FNMs) but the list I'm on seems sooo solid to the point of feeling unfair. I haven't changed a card in the maindeck and at this point I can't see changing anything in the future. It just runs so feaking smooth with the 7 cantrips. Cutting Snapcaster and Cryptic was the best decision I've ever made, feels like I can't lose since maxing out on cantrips and Gigadrowse/Exhaustion.
I did test Opt and Search for Azcanta. Opt, to me, is almost trash level. Very inferior to Sleight of Hand in this deck. Search is interesting, but it didn't convince me to take out any Howling Mines. In a lot of matchups where they are attacking your hand it's just critical to get raw numbers of cards into your hand early.
Also Thing in the Ice has overperformed for me and I think the 1-2 split is perfect.
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
Just did a search for "spells cost less" and found a card that was only mentioned, by @Xenob8, just over a year ago. That card is Curious Homunculus/Voracious Reader which could help accelerate the deck. Basically a 2-mana, blue Llanowar Elf that transforms into a bolt proof, prowess Goblin Electromancer. Might be too "cute" but also might switch us into a more control style deck. More counterspells and less filtering? Figured it was at least worth mentioning again.
Edit: Another card that @Zalmon mentioned right around the time it was revealed is Primal Amulet/Primal Wellspring. Is this just not worth consideration because it costs 4 or are there other factors that I'm not seeing? Maybe it's too much of a "win more" because you're copying the spell, but that could be alright because it could clear up 2-3-4 slots instead of the 11 warp cards. Food for thought, I suppose. Actually worth the discussion instead of it just getting mentioned once and never talked about again.
Why an As Foretold list? The whole idea there is to cheat spells out, not make them cost less. Also according to the rules of the card, cost reduction doesnt affect the overall CMC of the card:
4/18/2017: A card's converted mana cost is determined solely by the mana symbols printed in its upper right corner. The converted mana cost is the total amount of mana in that cost, regardless of color. For example, a card with mana cost 1UU has converted mana cost 3. Ignore any alternative costs, additional costs, cost increases, or cost reductions that could apply to it. A card with no mana cost has a converted mana cost of 0.
Yeah I should have elaborated. I’m aware that it doesn’t affect the casting cost considered by as fortold.
The reason i can see it in that deck is because a t3 as foretold followed by T 4 amulet is the only way I can see the amulet actually doing something. Fortold also doesn’t need the same mine effects so there may be a way to make room for it in that deck as well.
Frankly I don’t think it’s very good but if you can fire off a free serum visions, ancestral or wheel, the same turn amulet is played it just might flip while your alive.
Hey there, I was reading through the splendid Primer, and also some of the last few Posts. There is an issue that came to my mind: the Jeskai Control Match Up (or rather UW(x) Control, the Draw-Go type). I read in the Posts, that this would be challenging as far as a negative MU. In the Primer's section towards the first turns, there is a suggestion for your Turn 3 play that leads to the feeling of a bad MU:
Playing Gigadrowse on T3. This is wrong! Gigadrowse is the one card that turns this MU into our favor. Always. Post-board as well.
You want to keep this card in your hand as long as possible! Keep it, unless one of 2 situations come up:
A) You face lethal damage via Creatures
B) You go off in your next Turn.
Even play Dictates into counters, just to use up your opponent's resources. Then you will win. Always, probably.
Yes that was for pre-board games. Still I say: play your drawspells into counters, then those counters are played and the final Gigadrowse resolves, probably. Only issue I can think of would be a maindeck Counterflux, but that's rare. Gigadrowse then also turns all Exhautions from nearly useless to a soft Time Warp.
Snapcaster Mage
Gigadrowse
Exhaustion
Opt/Serum Visions
I ask because you mentioned a few times that these got you through the game.
Are 5 fetches really enough to turn on Fatal Push when required?
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
The metagame is a pendulum. In a few weeks I'll be back slamming turns and happy as Larry. For now I'm taking a short break and joining the dark side. Got my meddling mages sleeved up and ready to go.
See y'all in a bit xx
I have to update my list but lately I've stuck with 4/4 Serum/Opt and 1 Search for Azcanta.
I think the legendary enchantment can replace at least 1 howling mine (maybe 2?). Lets us dig deeper when we need specific cards and in corners cases let you see if you can cast Dictate on your upkeep safely (either a miracle on top with enough mana to cast both or just dictate with no miracle on top)
For now I'm back to Bant eldrazi but i'll be testing taking turn shortly again
Running a 1-of search tonight and upped snapcaster to 3. 4/3 split on serum visions/opt because I felt like 4 opt was too much, and not ready to cut down to 2. Another change is moving cryptic command up to 3 in the main and dropping spreading seas to the board (x2). Removed the 4th gigadrowse from my board and added 2x spell pierce. Will report back my results.
Edit: added card tags
Can you post an updated list along with your report?
Commander: Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim Clerics BW, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest Voltron RWU
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/768745-taking-turns?comment=1445
Report from last night is not great:
Lost round 1 to two REALLY fast starts. Game 1 was ALL burn spells to the dome while game 2 was ALL creatures. I didn't have any gigadrowse or exhaustion to slow the threat.
Round 2 was vs mono green stompy and won 2-0. Game 1 I did get down to 1 life from an explosive start into khalni hydra and a 8/8 walking ballista. When he cast the ballista I was at 16 with snappy on board. He pinged the mage and swung with hydra putting me to 8. I proceeded to combo off bouncing the ballista which triggered him to remove all counters putting me at 1. The snappy ping cost him the game! Game 2 went much worse for the opponent.
Round 3 vs a skilled Jund opponent that knew my deck off a turn 1 IoK with only islands, 1 snappy, 2 gigadrowse and mikokoro in hand. His hand was not great and I won. Game 2'he mulled to 6 and kept a poor hand. 2 SB seas on his only red sources worked out really well for me. During game 2 he mentioned that the decks owner suggested 'removing one of the stomping ground for another verdant catacombs' thinking there were 2 grounds in the deck; there weren't. Only a blood crypt and blackcleave cliffs. When both of those are spread, hard to cast red spells 😉 Won 2-0
I haven't played against the goryo's vengeance deck before and in round 4, that's what I got to face. It is seriously fast. Lost 0-2 in about 8 minutes. Remember the card guttural response, it's a doozy.
Overall, not sure what I'd change. Didn't face the boogeyman GDS or any Tron variant so I'm not sure the evening was too conclusive. Search resolved 2 times and both times it didn't really matter cuz it was during 'turns' but I can certainly see a turn 2-4 being quite nice!
Edit: added card tags
Round 1 2-0 vs Julian Grace-Martin playing the Hollow One/Vengevine aggro deck he debuted at SCG Syracuse over the summer.
Lost the die roll but he didn't have insane starts, I was able to keep his threats tapped down and comboed off pretty easily in both games. Brought in 2 Relic of Progenitus which helped in Game 2. Relic is great to bring in place of a couple Remands in a lot of matchups.
Round 2 2-0 vs Esper Spirits
This was kind of a brew and he just wasn't even close to fast enough. Lost the die roll again but luck was definitely "on my side" as I started with Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter both games.
Round 3 2-1 vs U/W Merfolk
Interesting deck, playing white for sideboard stuff, and Remands maindeck instead of Cursecatcher. Game 1 I didn't play around Remand and he Remanded my Time Warp two turns in a row to win the game. Games 2+3 I made sure to Gigadrowse him on end step before going off.
Top 4 2-1 vs same guy on U/W Merfolk
I lost game 2 due to never finding a Mine effect even after casting 4 cantrips but games 1+3 were pretty textbook.
Finals 1-0 vs Grixis Delver
We decided to split the prize packs, but there was an odd number so we played one game for the extra pack. I kept 4 lands and 3 Mines/Dictates and was able to win pretty easily through Thoughtseize, Delver etc.
I've been running pretty well lately (9-1 in past two FNMs) but the list I'm on seems sooo solid to the point of feeling unfair. I haven't changed a card in the maindeck and at this point I can't see changing anything in the future. It just runs so feaking smooth with the 7 cantrips. Cutting Snapcaster and Cryptic was the best decision I've ever made, feels like I can't lose since maxing out on cantrips and Gigadrowse/Exhaustion.
I did test Opt and Search for Azcanta. Opt, to me, is almost trash level. Very inferior to Sleight of Hand in this deck. Search is interesting, but it didn't convince me to take out any Howling Mines. In a lot of matchups where they are attacking your hand it's just critical to get raw numbers of cards into your hand early.
Also Thing in the Ice has overperformed for me and I think the 1-2 split is perfect.
3x Howling Mine
1x Thing in the Ice
4x Serum Visions
3x Sleight of Hand
4x Exhaustion
4x Gigadrowse
4x Remand
3x Temporal Mastery
4x Time Warp
20x Island
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Echoing Truth
2x Gut Shot
3x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Redirect
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Spell Pierce
2x Thing in the Ice
Edit: Another card that @Zalmon mentioned right around the time it was revealed is Primal Amulet/Primal Wellspring. Is this just not worth consideration because it costs 4 or are there other factors that I'm not seeing? Maybe it's too much of a "win more" because you're copying the spell, but that could be alright because it could clear up 2-3-4 slots instead of the 11 warp cards. Food for thought, I suppose. Actually worth the discussion instead of it just getting mentioned once and never talked about again.
The reason i can see it in that deck is because a t3 as foretold followed by T 4 amulet is the only way I can see the amulet actually doing something. Fortold also doesn’t need the same mine effects so there may be a way to make room for it in that deck as well.
Frankly I don’t think it’s very good but if you can fire off a free serum visions, ancestral or wheel, the same turn amulet is played it just might flip while your alive.
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Inkmoth Nexus
18 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Flooded Strand
Artifacts
2 Howling Mine
Enchantments
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Instants
2 Cryptic Command
4 Gigadrowse
3 Remand
1 Unsubstantiate
3 Exhaustion
3 Part the Waterveil
4 Serum Visions
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Time Warp
Planeswalkers
1 Jace Beleren
Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sentinel Totem
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spreading Seas
UR and sometimes WDelver Modern
U and sometimes WTurns Modern
URBWAffinity Modern
GWKarametra Enchantress EDH
UBRG Yidris Storm EDH
WSram Cheerios EDH
I also found that thing in the ice overperformed for me. Since I dropped it from the main the deck has felt slower and somehow weaker.
That said, it's easier to stick a mine if you have 7 of them, but hey.
I think (especially with the proliferation of humans style decks) thing is a good bet right now.
Playing Gigadrowse on T3. This is wrong! Gigadrowse is the one card that turns this MU into our favor. Always. Post-board as well.
You want to keep this card in your hand as long as possible! Keep it, unless one of 2 situations come up:
A) You face lethal damage via Creatures
B) You go off in your next Turn.
Even play Dictates into counters, just to use up your opponent's resources. Then you will win. Always, probably.
Greetings
If there's any comment on it being played early, it's intended to mean against extremely aggressive decks that try to win on turn 3 or 4.
Not if we play laboratory maniac or elixir of immortality
UR and sometimes WDelver Modern
U and sometimes WTurns Modern
URBWAffinity Modern
GWKarametra Enchantress EDH
UBRG Yidris Storm EDH
WSram Cheerios EDH