@VIPowL How did you feel without Chameleon Colossus? He seems like such a house against Death's Shadow. Do you feel that we don't need the help in that match up?
Also, I've liked Selfless Spirit and Scavenging Ooze in the past for what they can do. What is your reasoning for passing on them?
1. I believe at the time Chameleon Colossus was like 20 ticks? So I didn't want to commit that much cash for a matchup I've played against 3 times in 15 leagues on MODO. He's clearly an excellent card in an already favoured match-up, so I haven't missed him all that much. That being said I would like to try one, as BG Rock is gaining traction online. The online metagame is always a little ahead on paper, so I would definitely pack one Colossus in my local meta which certainly has plenty of Death's Shadow.
2. Selfless Spirit and Scavenging Ooze were definitely tough omissions from the Sideboard.
As per Selfless Spirit, Syreal and I had a discussion whereby against the grindier and non-red boardwipe decks, we would opt for the Planeswalker strategy. A Garruk or a Nissa can keep pressure on the battlefield without you really needing to commit all that much to the board. This strategy has been working very well and I haven't missed Selfless Spirit EXCEPT in the Titanshift matches where this strategy does not apply. BFT does a good job there however.
2. Scooze hasn't felt good in a while. I think we're tricked into thinking he is good as we board him in so frequently, but there's so many times he comes down after a board wipe when you have 2-3 lands and may get to eat 1/2 dudes before he inevitably gets pushed or pathed. Sure he is also GY hate, but I would prefer RIP or Relic. I have missed him against Burn though.
Hey all! So recently I found myself unsure on whether to keep a hand. It was game one, and I was on the draw. I didn't know at the time what deck he was on.
I think that's a perfectly fine hand on the draw against decks without a lot of interaction. You've even got a back up dork in the unfortunate events that your first gets bolted and you don't hit a second land for Devoted Druid.
Went 3-1 at a local modern night playing a G/W vizer build.
Round 1: Affinity
Lost game one on the draw. He did affinity things and I lost. Game two and three I had Kataki out and won pretty easily.
Round 2: Dredge 1-0
Won game one on the play. Just was too fast for him. Game two darkblasting over and over my Mana dork. Kept drawing lands. Game three turn two Rest in peace. Rip dredge.
Round 3: B/G Tron 2-0
Game one he had two Oblivion stones and an Ugin... Didn't last long. Game two literally drew 6 lands...
Round 4: Nahri control 2-1
Game one I did elf things and he cried. Game two I over extend into a wrath and lose bad. Game 3 was a grind. Baited him into wrathing a small board and was able to cast collected company multiple times. To rebuild and win.
Would you mind sharing sideboarding tips for some of the more common match-ups (Valakut, Shadow, E Tron, Storm, Affinity, Burn, etc.) VIPowL? I just picked up the GW build, and I'm unsure what cards can be cut without diluting the deck too much. Can you trim on Chords or Devoted Druids?
Would you mind sharing sideboarding tips for some of the more common match-ups (Valakut, Shadow, E Tron, Storm, Affinity, Burn, etc.) VIPowL? I just picked up the GW build, and I'm unsure what cards can be cut without diluting the deck too much. Can you trim on Chords or Devoted Druids?
Titanshift:
In - BFT, Aven Mindcensor, Reclamation Sage
Out - Eternal Witness, Nettle x 2
Not much to do here, just try and goldfish as fast as possible. I like BFT as anti-anger/suns. Rec sage kills Prismatic Omen and Khalni.
Shadow:
In - BFT, Path x 3, Garruk x 2, Relic x 2
Out - Chord x 4, Vizier, Nettle x 3
Chord feels bad against stubborn denial, and getting the combo off is difficult. Bring in interaction and go wide enough to force through lethal. Bring in Revoker if you see Lily The Last Hope or Staticaster.
E Tron:
In - Stony, Mindcensor, Rec Sage, Path x 3
Out - Nettle x 4, Eternal Witness, Heritage Druid
I still like the combo here, as it isn't bricked by a Chalice on 1. I don't bring in Garruk as this match-up is always more of a race for me. Don't try and go late game grind against this deck.
Storm:
In - Relic x 2, Eidolon, Mindcensor, Path x3
Out - Nettle x 4, Eternal Witness, Heritage Druid, Ezuri
Pure race. I've actually been winning this match-up recently, as we can goldfish just as fast as they can. My sideboard has also felt really good every time.
Affinity:
In - Path x 3, Kataki, Stony, Fracturing Gust, Rec Sage, Revoker.
Out - Nettle x 4, Eternal Witness, Ezuri, Chord, Heritage Druid.
Game 1 is always close, and we have plenty of hate cards. Drawing one should normally result in the W. BFT for whipflare and Aven as a flying blocker are too narrow imo.
Burn:
I've spoke about this match-up on Page 56.
As you can see, I generally only board out the combo in grindier matches against GBx or Control. When you trim Chords it is also okay to trim 1-2 Druid, but don't cut them all as you can still go infinite with Ezuri via the double druid plan, and plus, your opponents don't know if you still have the combo in your deck or not, so they are priced into wasting removal on the druid just in case.
The format is quite linear at the moment, so I rarely have matches where I shave the combo.
Hello, about 3-4 months ago I built the Abzan elves deck. Just play it before the summer 2 times (3W1L), and the previous FNM (1W 3L). I am informing myself about the decks of elves more thoroughly, and now I see everywhere the GW elves vizier.
I'm thinking of switching to GW because of the good reviews, but the change is 50-70 €. Do you think it's worth it? Is there such a difference between GW vizier elves and Abzan elves?
I think the build abzan is fun to play, but I do not know if I will get more out of GW.
PD: Game without horizon canopy and cavern of souls, since it supposes a great expense.
thanks, you indirectly answered quite a few of my questions, in particular about nettle sentinel being very very bad (you sb it out extremely frequently) and both chord and the combo being unreliable against decks with 8+ spot removal spells + 6/8 between discard spells + counterspells.
I see this type of thinking come up here and there and it needs to be quashed. Just because a card is sideboarded out a lot does not mean it is a bad card. You need to look at the deck as having a Plan A and a Plan B. Plan A of elves is to combo or beat down as fast as possible and a one drop 2/2 that is both good at beating down and synergizes well with Heritage Druid to help us explode on to the board is what we're looking for game 1 when we never know what we're up against. Post board, when people start to tune their decks toward attrition, Nettle Sentinel's value is diminished. This is when we go to Plan B of playing a grindier game by bringing in interaction and cards to help us go long. I'm not saying Nettle Sentinel is a bomb in our deck, but he serves a purpose and in my opinion, gives us the luxury of making sideboarding a bit easier. We know that when we need to go long he comes out and that immediately gives us 4 slots to bring in planeswalkers, removal, and silver bullets.
Another way to look at is is when you point out that Chord and the combo comes out a lot against decks that pick our hands apart and pack counterspells. This doesn't make Chord or the combo bad, it just means we have a different game plan post board and the same logic is applied to Nettle Sentinel.
I personally am excited to begin testing Modern's gaea's cradle.
Here's what I can tell so far.
1)It's a noncreature spell meaning less CoCo targets but it adds a creature to your hand giving the deck more reach for wincons.
2)It's legendary so more than 2 doesn't seem like a good idea.
3)In the face of removal it will be difficult to trigger its ability.
4)Craterhoof for more mana sinks?
5)4 Ezuri seems like a must with it for more chances to use the land's mana output.
6)Too clunky in GB; more potential in GW.
7)Can be played and activated t2 with the god hand though t3 activation seems more likely.
8)Forces you to over-commit.
9)Good top deck.
Seems to me that GW combo benefits the most by having more wincons to fetch including 4 ezuri.
There's a possibility we could play a playset of this. We could play the second copy once the first one flips and get another creature. if the second flips, legendary rule apply then we could play the third. The main problem is, if you can't flip the first then every copy is a dead card.
Thoughts? Does anyone willing to play a playset of this?
No way would we play more than one. It cantrips for a creature and once it's flipped it's basically Shrine to Nykthos since you have to have a board presence to trigger it and get value. Playing out multiple copies is limited in power by the fact that you only get to use the mana from both during your upkeep before you're forced to sac one. If it doesn't flip you are playing a 3 mana elvish visionary with no body attached. Also, if your running one, do you cut a land or a creature to fit it in? Cutting a visionary or sentinel seems reasonable. But would you really cut 4 creature to play a set? Going down 4 creatures hurts it's own effectiveness as well as Collected Company's.
Gaea's cradle can be played as 4 because it's an immediate impact that lets you create insane amounts of mana in one turn for lethal. Also, it's a land off the bat which doesn't take slots from chord/CoCo or creatures.
That being said, I feel like a case can be made for 2. For GW combo I think -1 land and -1 chord could work. It's been proven via Ross Merriam - though not intentional - that 17 lands is consistent with this version. 9 noncreature spells is the max I would personally go.
Also, I've liked Selfless Spirit and Scavenging Ooze in the past for what they can do. What is your reasoning for passing on them?
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
1. I believe at the time Chameleon Colossus was like 20 ticks? So I didn't want to commit that much cash for a matchup I've played against 3 times in 15 leagues on MODO. He's clearly an excellent card in an already favoured match-up, so I haven't missed him all that much. That being said I would like to try one, as BG Rock is gaining traction online. The online metagame is always a little ahead on paper, so I would definitely pack one Colossus in my local meta which certainly has plenty of Death's Shadow.
2. Selfless Spirit and Scavenging Ooze were definitely tough omissions from the Sideboard.
As per Selfless Spirit, Syreal and I had a discussion whereby against the grindier and non-red boardwipe decks, we would opt for the Planeswalker strategy. A Garruk or a Nissa can keep pressure on the battlefield without you really needing to commit all that much to the board. This strategy has been working very well and I haven't missed Selfless Spirit EXCEPT in the Titanshift matches where this strategy does not apply. BFT does a good job there however.
2. Scooze hasn't felt good in a while. I think we're tricked into thinking he is good as we board him in so frequently, but there's so many times he comes down after a board wipe when you have 2-3 lands and may get to eat 1/2 dudes before he inevitably gets pushed or pathed. Sure he is also GY hate, but I would prefer RIP or Relic. I have missed him against Burn though.
1 elvish mystic
1 llanowar elves
2 ezuri, renegade leader
1 devoted druid
1 collected company
I decided to keep, I figured every turn there were 8 cards I could draw that would result in me getting infinite mana and winning.
Round 1: Affinity
Lost game one on the draw. He did affinity things and I lost. Game two and three I had Kataki out and won pretty easily.
Round 2: Dredge 1-0
Won game one on the play. Just was too fast for him. Game two darkblasting over and over my Mana dork. Kept drawing lands. Game three turn two Rest in peace. Rip dredge.
Round 3: B/G Tron 2-0
Game one he had two Oblivion stones and an Ugin... Didn't last long. Game two literally drew 6 lands...
Round 4: Nahri control 2-1
Game one I did elf things and he cried. Game two I over extend into a wrath and lose bad. Game 3 was a grind. Baited him into wrathing a small board and was able to cast collected company multiple times. To rebuild and win.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/elves_with_ross_merriam.html
Ross Merriam latest finish. This could be included to the primer.
Goryo's Fuse Combo UBR
Yup. But someone might be interested in the inputs of Ross when choosing the deck. I like his idea of bringing in Stony Silence against Tron.
Of course man. I will use my list as a reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/745375#online
Titanshift:
In - BFT, Aven Mindcensor, Reclamation Sage
Out - Eternal Witness, Nettle x 2
Not much to do here, just try and goldfish as fast as possible. I like BFT as anti-anger/suns. Rec sage kills Prismatic Omen and Khalni.
Shadow:
In - BFT, Path x 3, Garruk x 2, Relic x 2
Out - Chord x 4, Vizier, Nettle x 3
Chord feels bad against stubborn denial, and getting the combo off is difficult. Bring in interaction and go wide enough to force through lethal. Bring in Revoker if you see Lily The Last Hope or Staticaster.
E Tron:
In - Stony, Mindcensor, Rec Sage, Path x 3
Out - Nettle x 4, Eternal Witness, Heritage Druid
I still like the combo here, as it isn't bricked by a Chalice on 1. I don't bring in Garruk as this match-up is always more of a race for me. Don't try and go late game grind against this deck.
Storm:
In - Relic x 2, Eidolon, Mindcensor, Path x3
Out - Nettle x 4, Eternal Witness, Heritage Druid, Ezuri
Pure race. I've actually been winning this match-up recently, as we can goldfish just as fast as they can. My sideboard has also felt really good every time.
Affinity:
In - Path x 3, Kataki, Stony, Fracturing Gust, Rec Sage, Revoker.
Out - Nettle x 4, Eternal Witness, Ezuri, Chord, Heritage Druid.
Game 1 is always close, and we have plenty of hate cards. Drawing one should normally result in the W. BFT for whipflare and Aven as a flying blocker are too narrow imo.
Burn:
I've spoke about this match-up on Page 56.
As you can see, I generally only board out the combo in grindier matches against GBx or Control. When you trim Chords it is also okay to trim 1-2 Druid, but don't cut them all as you can still go infinite with Ezuri via the double druid plan, and plus, your opponents don't know if you still have the combo in your deck or not, so they are priced into wasting removal on the druid just in case.
The format is quite linear at the moment, so I rarely have matches where I shave the combo.
Hello, about 3-4 months ago I built the Abzan elves deck. Just play it before the summer 2 times (3W1L), and the previous FNM (1W 3L). I am informing myself about the decks of elves more thoroughly, and now I see everywhere the GW elves vizier.
I'm thinking of switching to GW because of the good reviews, but the change is 50-70 €. Do you think it's worth it? Is there such a difference between GW vizier elves and Abzan elves?
I think the build abzan is fun to play, but I do not know if I will get more out of GW.
PD: Game without horizon canopy and cavern of souls, since it supposes a great expense.
I see this type of thinking come up here and there and it needs to be quashed. Just because a card is sideboarded out a lot does not mean it is a bad card. You need to look at the deck as having a Plan A and a Plan B. Plan A of elves is to combo or beat down as fast as possible and a one drop 2/2 that is both good at beating down and synergizes well with Heritage Druid to help us explode on to the board is what we're looking for game 1 when we never know what we're up against. Post board, when people start to tune their decks toward attrition, Nettle Sentinel's value is diminished. This is when we go to Plan B of playing a grindier game by bringing in interaction and cards to help us go long. I'm not saying Nettle Sentinel is a bomb in our deck, but he serves a purpose and in my opinion, gives us the luxury of making sideboarding a bit easier. We know that when we need to go long he comes out and that immediately gives us 4 slots to bring in planeswalkers, removal, and silver bullets.
Another way to look at is is when you point out that Chord and the combo comes out a lot against decks that pick our hands apart and pack counterspells. This doesn't make Chord or the combo bad, it just means we have a different game plan post board and the same logic is applied to Nettle Sentinel.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/growing-rites-of-itlimoc/
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/itlimoc-cradle-of-the-sun/
I personally am excited to begin testing Modern's gaea's cradle.
Here's what I can tell so far.
1)It's a noncreature spell meaning less CoCo targets but it adds a creature to your hand giving the deck more reach for wincons.
2)It's legendary so more than 2 doesn't seem like a good idea.
3)In the face of removal it will be difficult to trigger its ability.
4)Craterhoof for more mana sinks?
5)4 Ezuri seems like a must with it for more chances to use the land's mana output.
6)Too clunky in GB; more potential in GW.
7)Can be played and activated t2 with the god hand though t3 activation seems more likely.
8)Forces you to over-commit.
9)Good top deck.
Seems to me that GW combo benefits the most by having more wincons to fetch including 4 ezuri.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
There's a possibility we could play a playset of this. We could play the second copy once the first one flips and get another creature. if the second flips, legendary rule apply then we could play the third. The main problem is, if you can't flip the first then every copy is a dead card.
Thoughts? Does anyone willing to play a playset of this?
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
That being said, I feel like a case can be made for 2. For GW combo I think -1 land and -1 chord could work. It's been proven via Ross Merriam - though not intentional - that 17 lands is consistent with this version. 9 noncreature spells is the max I would personally go.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth