I see people suggesting PWs, but are they really better than Selfless spirit and Lead the Stampede/similar? Also, the 5-mana ones seem incredibly expensive.
Also, why do people like Champion that much? Isn't Ezuri just always better?
Champion is just side stuff, Forestwalk is great even without Ezuri in play and +1/+1 saved me from a Bonfire for exemple. 1-of is very good, it's very good top deck against green decks imo.
Are there any better alternatives to Kitchen Finks for burn matchups in a GB build? Essence Warden? Life Goes On? Finks typically only nets me 2 life which doesn't seem worth it.
Some people like essence warden, but finks only nets you two life? It never serves as a blocker and persists? I've always liked finks, haven't tested warden much.
Some people like essence warden, but finks only nets you two life? It never serves as a blocker and persists? I've always liked finks, haven't tested warden much.
I usually find my finks too late and don't get it down early enough even though I side 3 copies. Life Goes On could be nice. Gain 8 after any creature dies could make it impossible for Burn to come back from.
If you're seeing a lot of burn, you can always switch Nettles for Essence Wardens. You'll give up the Nettle + Heritage shenanigans but with an early Warden, you can easily go out of burns reach.
Garruk can definitely stick around after a board wipe to make beasts, but I find the fact that he's a 4-mana overrun to be much more relevant. Openings that involve vomiting a bunch of elves onto the board on turns 1 and 2, then on turn 3 playing Garruk, untapping two lands and playing more elves, are easy turn 4 wins.
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If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
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Garruk can definitely stick around after a board wipe to make beasts, but I find the fact that he's a 4-mana overrun to be much more relevant. Openings that involve vomiting a bunch of elves onto the board on turns 1 and 2, then on turn 3 playing Garruk, untapping two lands and playing more elves, are easy turn 4 wins.
We're talking two different Garruk's. Garruk Relentless is our active test target, while you're talking about Garruk Wildspeaker - although he does do some work as well.
Garruk can definitely stick around after a board wipe to make beasts, but I find the fact that he's a 4-mana overrun to be much more relevant. Openings that involve vomiting a bunch of elves onto the board on turns 1 and 2, then on turn 3 playing Garruk, untapping two lands and playing more elves, are easy turn 4 wins.
We're talking two different Garruk's. Garruk Relentless is our active test target, while you're talking about Garruk Wildspeaker - although he does do some work as well.
Have you done any testing with Nissas? I'm assuming Garruk is better in the sense that it's not jeopardizing your lands to creature removal right?
Have you done any testing with Nissas? I'm assuming Garruk is better in the sense that it's not jeopardizing your lands to creature removal right?
Nissa, Vital Force is great, and over in Japan, mikeduges assures me that Nissa, Steward of Elements is also great. Its just that I don't want to play multiple Nissa, one is a great number.
What do we play first against an unknown deck game 1 turn 1: dork or nettle? Let's say I don't have the heritage druid in my opening hand which comprises of dork, nettle, land, land, visionary, coco, chord. I've never really developed a rule on this (and I've only started playing with nettles recently)
What do we play first against an unknown deck game 1 turn 1: dork or nettle? Let's say I don't have the heritage druid in my opening hand which comprises of dork, nettle, land, land, visionary, coco, chord. I've never really developed a rule on this (and I've only started playing with nettles recently)
Always dork. Dork is 100% the optimal path unless you:
a) want to bait out a removal spell to keep the dork alive
b) have nettle nettle heritage no dork as your hand
c) want a blocker for Goblin Guide (and explicitly only Goblin Guide)
While we're talking planeswalkers...for GB builds that use Blooming Marsh, fetches, and Gilt Leaf palaces...wouldn't either of the 3CMC lilianas be better value than nissa? I think last hope might be better for the -2/-1 and creature card back to hand
I feel like double black on turn 3 is a tall order. You really only have 8 black sources capable of casting Liliana since Caverns can't cast planeswalkers. Also, since we want planeswalkers to keep pressure up when your board is being picked apart and Liliana's ability to return a creature to hand is a -loyalty ability, it's really only going to be returning a creature to your hand every couple of turns. If you're looking for a continuous stream of threats 5/5s are much better than the elves you would be returning. My last point is that we aren't really set up to control the board, which means we aren't well equipped to protect Liliana, and Nissa comes in at 5 loyalty, immediately ticks up to 6 and creates a 5/5 to protect herself.
Are there any better alternatives to Kitchen Finks for burn matchups in a GB build? Essence Warden? Life Goes On? Finks typically only nets me 2 life which doesn't seem worth it.
If you run GW there's Lone Missionary. Comes down a turn earlier, nets 4 life off the bat, and has enough power to trade with their creatures.
@Planeswalkers:
I'd like to give my 2 cents on the topic of planeswalkers. Let's start with Garruk Relentless. He's strong and I like all of his modes in our deck but coming in with 3 counters with no way to uptick that same turn you cast him keeps him in bolt range. He seems especially dead against jeskai control which runs 4 bolts, 4 helix, and 4 snaps. If we want a walker that can tackle all of our control/midrange MUs then it should really pass the bolt check imo.
Nissa, Vital force is a great card and it passes the bolt test but 5 mana can be difficult to achieve after a board wipe. Yes there's the chance we could predict the board wipe and be proactive with Nissa but what if you don't have it in your hand and you draw into it.
If you run GW there's Lone Missionary. Comes down a turn earlier, nets 4 life off the bat, and has enough power to trade with their creatures.
@Planeswalkers:
I'd like to give my 2 cents on the topic of planeswalkers. Let's start with Garruk Relentless. He's strong and I like all of his modes in our deck but coming in with 3 counters with no way to uptick that same turn you cast him keeps him in bolt range. He seems especially dead against jeskai control which runs 4 bolts, 4 helix, and 4 snaps. If we want a walker that can tackle all of our control/midrange MUs then it should really pass the bolt check imo.
Nissa, Vital force is a great card and it passes the bolt test but 5 mana can be difficult to achieve after a board wipe. Yes there's the chance we could predict the board wipe and be proactive with Nissa but what if you don't have it in your hand and you draw into it.
Bolt counts are at an all time low though, which is why a walker like Garruk Relentless can make a huge impact on our boards. Not to mention, our entire creature base warrants a Bolt so we can really exhaust their bolt count before playing the Garruk.
The Jeskai matchup itself demands a different subset of skills as you're trying to exhaust tons of one for one removal instead of a bunch of Wraths. I distinctly remember boarding in Tec Edges back in the day to attack the matchup. Garruk can still be useful.
Would someone be so kind as to post a cutting edge, successful GB Elves list? Would love to see what's currently the best version of the deck. Thank you!
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Champion is just side stuff, Forestwalk is great even without Ezuri in play and +1/+1 saved me from a Bonfire for exemple. 1-of is very good, it's very good top deck against green decks imo.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
GW Elves for my first PPTQ of the season.
Hype.
How are the 3 Garruks in the side working out for you.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
We're talking two different Garruk's. Garruk Relentless is our active test target, while you're talking about Garruk Wildspeaker - although he does do some work as well.
Have you done any testing with Nissas? I'm assuming Garruk is better in the sense that it's not jeopardizing your lands to creature removal right?
Nissa, Vital Force is great, and over in Japan, mikeduges assures me that Nissa, Steward of Elements is also great. Its just that I don't want to play multiple Nissa, one is a great number.
Also, we're live on twitch!
Always dork. Dork is 100% the optimal path unless you:
a) want to bait out a removal spell to keep the dork alive
b) have nettle nettle heritage no dork as your hand
c) want a blocker for Goblin Guide (and explicitly only Goblin Guide)
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
If you run GW there's Lone Missionary. Comes down a turn earlier, nets 4 life off the bat, and has enough power to trade with their creatures.
@Planeswalkers:
I'd like to give my 2 cents on the topic of planeswalkers. Let's start with Garruk Relentless. He's strong and I like all of his modes in our deck but coming in with 3 counters with no way to uptick that same turn you cast him keeps him in bolt range. He seems especially dead against jeskai control which runs 4 bolts, 4 helix, and 4 snaps. If we want a walker that can tackle all of our control/midrange MUs then it should really pass the bolt check imo.
Nissa, Vital force is a great card and it passes the bolt test but 5 mana can be difficult to achieve after a board wipe. Yes there's the chance we could predict the board wipe and be proactive with Nissa but what if you don't have it in your hand and you draw into it.
If we take both cmc and bolt test into consideration, we're left with Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
Bolt counts are at an all time low though, which is why a walker like Garruk Relentless can make a huge impact on our boards. Not to mention, our entire creature base warrants a Bolt so we can really exhaust their bolt count before playing the Garruk.
The Jeskai matchup itself demands a different subset of skills as you're trying to exhaust tons of one for one removal instead of a bunch of Wraths. I distinctly remember boarding in Tec Edges back in the day to attack the matchup. Garruk can still be useful.
Also, stream in an hour.