Any advice facing against Valakut deck variants? How favorable is it for Elves? I'm running a typical Abzan build. I have access to Mark of Asylum and Burrenton Forge-tender
What makes this MU so bad for us is we have to both race and play around their angers and bolts. You have to pay very close attention to how many turns away they are from winning. Knowing this, think about how many pieces you need to commit in one turn to counterplay their boardwipe while still providing a clock. It's difficult but doable.
All those hate pcs MasterBouda mentioned will work fine except Gaddock Teeg. It only hits noncreature spells (primeval can still be played) and it conflicts with chord/company.
In my experience, Forgetender/Spirit and Aven are the most effective with our company/chord suite.
In my abzan toolbox list I use sculler as a means to combat this MU and other combo MUs.
Going live in 20m on twitch.tv/syreal_ -- streaming the Abzan list with some mild tweaks. Twitch should save the past broadcast so you can watch it back as well.
I put them in the sideboard and used them in tandem with discard. Now I am exploring options with counterspell. What it basically does is give us a transformational sideboard.
I understand the card sideboard, but I'm not a big fan mainboard. Also, as for your sideboard counterspells, I run a one of spell queller in the sideboard, which is fantastic with chord and company, and I can cast it cause of cavern and horizon canopy, and it's performed fantastically. I'd highly recommend it.
I'm wondering about Lone Missionary as a replacement for Finks against burn/zoo.
Lone Missionary seems like a solid choice to attack Burn if you have a splash of white. The best counter to burn for green, imo, is Life Goes On. Card is silly. 8 life gain for 1 mana.
While on this topic, has anyone tested out Oracle of Nectars since it's an elf? I've tried Essence Warden before but never get to actually gain any life.
Hey guys, I've been playing Elves on Modo, and decided to take it to the PPTQ/F2F meta we have in Canada. I've been rocking it hard with top finishes, my friend also make the Semi's with the same list.
Most people will point out to two changes to the deck
1. Why two Lead the Stampede, and only two Chord of Calling? The meta is hostile with spot removal and sweepers. We have to face Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Flaying Tendrils, Anger of the Gods and Supreme Verdict. Lead the Stampede helps us recover from those effects and choose also to not over extend for game wins. Of course this lowers your blowout hands, but Chord of Calling doesn't help you in the situations where you only can target for 1. Two copies have been more than sufficient in the side boarded games when it comes to silver bullets. To also add, most hands I've come across that involve two Chord of Calling has generally been a mulligan.
2. The Manabase - Because of the changes above, the multiple fetch hand increases your hits with Lead the Stampede and Collected Company. You make yourself worse with Burn, but dramatically make up for it with the utility and over performance of Collective Brutality in the sideboard. The smarter players have not beaten me with Sweepers, once some of them had Blood Moon and sweepers it became more difficult for me to recover. This is also a reason for the change. I feel the matchups we gain certain percentages against, dramatically outweigh the single Burn matchup we could face in an 8 round tournament.
My personal record with this exact list;
3-2 League (misplay one match, and my sideboard didn't load against affinity game 3 for the other match)
5-0 League
5-0 League
4-1 League (loss to TitanShift)
4-1 League (loss to UWR Saheeli)
3-1 FNM (loss to GW company, I whiffed on two Collected Company)
3-1 FNM (loss to GBx, Land flooded)
Hey I was wondering if anyone has played against Gifts Storm and how the matchup was? Are you able to race them and present lethal before they can establish the combo? And what sideboard cards are you guys running? The deck is semi popular in my area and I want to cover all bases before I bring it to a tournament lol
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Hey I was wondering if anyone has played against Gifts Storm and how the matchup was? Are you able to race them and present lethal before they can establish the combo? And what sideboard cards are you guys running? The deck is semi popular in my area and I want to cover all bases before I bring it to a tournament lol
Matchup doesn't feel great, regardless of variant. I think the GW/Abzan lists have an edge because they're able to find Eidolon of Rhetoric. GB has to settle with Thoughtseize which does almost as much work, tbh, but isn't a decisive game winner like Eidolon can be.
In unrelated news, ended up getting killed in the semi's of a PPTQ today after a 5-1 run put me in 2nd seed. Matches were:
UW Control (L)
Jund (W)
4c Humans (W)
RG Tron (W)
UW Control (W)
Affinity (W)
QF: UW Control (R1 guy, W)
SF: UW Control (L)
Running really hot right now, and hope to maintain my current ~70ish % record (10-4 this season!).
Also, catch me playing the list I played for this PPTQ @ 0900 AEST/ 1600 PDT / 1900 EDT / 0000 GMT+1 - if you can't catch it then, you can watch it back when Twitch decides to save the upload.
Quarter - Abzan (from R3) : 2-0
Semi - Eldrazi Tron (from R2) : 2-0
Final - Four Color Evolution : 2-1
Mainboard Reclamation Sage was very useful. Round 2, I hitted RS and Archdruid with CoCo, so I was able to get rid of Walking Ballista. Chameleon Colossus was for the Death's Shadow matchup but it's still a good body against Eldrazi Tron.
Right now, I am wondering if I keep Gaddock Teeg, Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Yixlid Jailer in my sideboard. Teeg is good against Tron not Eldrazi Tron. Infect is not played anymore. Yixlid Jailer is good against Dredge but for the most of the time, when you can chord for him, it's already too late.
But overall, Elves is a very good choice for this PPTQ season!
Hey I was wondering if anyone has played against Gifts Storm and how the matchup was? Are you able to race them and present lethal before they can establish the combo? And what sideboard cards are you guys running? The deck is semi popular in my area and I want to cover all bases before I bring it to a tournament lol
Matchup doesn't feel great, regardless of variant. I think the GW/Abzan lists have an edge because they're able to find Eidolon of Rhetoric. GB has to settle with Thoughtseize which does almost as much work, tbh, but isn't a decisive game winner like Eidolon can be.
In unrelated news, ended up getting killed in the semi's of a PPTQ today after a 5-1 run put me in 2nd seed. Matches were:
UW Control (L)
Jund (W)
4c Humans (W)
RG Tron (W)
UW Control (W)
Affinity (W)
QF: UW Control (R1 guy, W)
SF: UW Control (L)
Running really hot right now, and hope to maintain my current ~70ish % record (10-4 this season!).
Also, catch me playing the list I played for this PPTQ @ 0900 AEST/ 1600 PDT / 1900 EDT / 0000 GMT+1 - if you can't catch it then, you can watch it back when Twitch decides to save the upload.
What were your initial thoughts on the combo/Shaman build?
What were your initial thoughts on the combo/Shaman build?
Was very clunky and I really missed Visionary. The cuteness of the combo didn't outweigh the efficiency of the GB list in my opinion. GW pilots may like the additional angle because they don't have the Shaman angle, GB pilots don't need it though because Shaman becomes the main plan in GB.
Was very clunky and I really missed Visionary. The cuteness of the combo didn't outweigh the efficiency of the GB list in my opinion. GW pilots may like the additional angle because they don't have the Shaman angle, GB pilots don't need it though because Shaman becomes the main plan in GB.
I thought the same thing when I was watching the stream. I think I'll stick with the GB + W sideboard I've been using. Appreciate the streaming, keep letting us know when they're posted so I can watch when I'm bored at work.
Hey I was wondering if anyone has played against Gifts Storm and how the matchup was? Are you able to race them and present lethal before they can establish the combo? And what sideboard cards are you guys running? The deck is semi popular in my area and I want to cover all bases before I bring it to a tournament lol
Your silver bullet is Eidolon of Rhetoric. Cheaper but vulnerable to bolt, you have Ethersworn Canonist. Please note that the game is far from over even if you chord for an Eidolon, because Storm runs at least 1 or more bounce spells such as Echoing Truths, and many will have merchant scrolls to go look for these. So its imperative to close the game quickly.
A key thing to prevent a combo turn isn't just plunking out the Eidolon or chording for it as soon as you can. If you understand how the combo works you can play around the bolt by chording in response to the combo at a crucial time where they will need the mana to continue, but now are forced to spend R for bolt. Or alternatively if they have exhausted U for their gifts and have only R floating for the Past in Flames / Rituals, you can catch them with their pants down too, so they can't bounce the eidolon. Last but not least, chording for the eidolon when they flashback past in flames makes things really awkward for them.
This is why I play Thing in the Ice in my Gifts Storm sideboard. I respect Elves a lot, being a pilot of it myself.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Thank you! That was very useful! It's funny, I actually own Storm myself but I'm so used to the combo that I have a tough time realizing how to counter it with other decks. I'm so excited for tomorrow's amazon shipment haha, the deck should be ready for my next FNM
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Twitch finally uploaded my stream for the day, I suggest watching the middle league as it was a 4-1, and the 5c Deaths Shadow match is a great game to look at and analyse.
Really enjoying two Nissa, Vital Force in the board, and I also plan on testing some Garruk Relentless in the board at some point in the future.(maybe up to 3 of them to replace Lead!)
Twitch finally uploaded my stream for the day, I suggest watching the middle league as it was a 4-1, and the 5c Deaths Shadow match is a great game to look at and analyse.
Really enjoying two Nissa, Vital Force in the board, and I also plan on testing some Garruk Relentless in the board at some point in the future.(maybe up to 3 of them to replace Lead!)
Could you explain the significance of Garruk and Nissa in your sideboard? Idk if I'm over thinking it or what. But I never understood planeswalkers in Elf boards. So I guess I'm asking when you bring them in and how they help. Thanks!
Played Elves for the first time this weekend in a pptq, went 4-2 without making top8. Detected a few mistakes I made, but I think at some point I also run hot, so it's hard to say how different it would have been.
R1: beat blue architect, seemed like a bye
R2: lost to GW counters. Combo'd on the play g1, he combo'd g2 on the play, g3 I had the combo for next turn but he hit Aved Mindcensor of a CoCo, which kinda locked me, as he drew 2 paths and a Witness to kill my potential dangerous natural draws.
R3: beat GR Valakut, got a bit lucky, as he flooded and didn't draw Anger g1, g2 I landed a spirit that had me covered.
R4: lost to storm. G1 he combo'd faster, g2 I went for a Westvale t3 with him at 17, he didn't have an answer, g3 I probably misplayed: afraid of Remand, I path'd his Baral on my turn, which ramped him and allowed him to play a second Baral. This also meant 1 less creature in play, thus I couldn't Chord for Eidolon next turn, when he went off. Then I learned he took Remands of. I could have won this one, but the MU doesn't seem great.
R5: Beat Grixis shadow. G1 I elfball quickly, g2 I have a slow start and he has staticaster to clear my board, g3 I put a huge board on t2, and he concedes too soon, although it looked really bad for him.
R6: Beat burn. It didn't seem close, and eidolon seems worse for them than for us.
MVP: Westvale Abby. Won 3-4 games with it, even playing such a small tournament. Totally worth the slot.
HM: The combo. It allows to steal games that if they last, you probably have a hard time winning.
Unknown: Driven/Despair. Never got to cast it. Not sure if better or worse than Lead. I like the idea of ripping their hand apart while drawing a few cards. Those cards are not guaranteed though.
Disappointed: Shaman. I understand why people like it, and that's why I decided to run them too, but at no point during the tournament I was like "oh man I wish I draw/hit a shaman now". Never ever felt that way. I either need to rebuild, or one of the other lords is good enough anyway, so I don't think the extra 3drops are worth - rather have either more Ezuri that saves elves from sweepers or Archdruid that ramps.
Note, of course, that my sample size is really small for some of these conclusions. Manabase is almost assuredely not perfect. Kitchen Finks didn't seem necessary. Path might better be a split with Dismember.
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Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
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What makes this MU so bad for us is we have to both race and play around their angers and bolts. You have to pay very close attention to how many turns away they are from winning. Knowing this, think about how many pieces you need to commit in one turn to counterplay their boardwipe while still providing a clock. It's difficult but doable.
All those hate pcs MasterBouda mentioned will work fine except Gaddock Teeg. It only hits noncreature spells (primeval can still be played) and it conflicts with chord/company.
In my experience, Forgetender/Spirit and Aven are the most effective with our company/chord suite.
In my abzan toolbox list I use sculler as a means to combat this MU and other combo MUs.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
Hope to see ya'll there.
I understand the card sideboard, but I'm not a big fan mainboard. Also, as for your sideboard counterspells, I run a one of spell queller in the sideboard, which is fantastic with chord and company, and I can cast it cause of cavern and horizon canopy, and it's performed fantastically. I'd highly recommend it.
Lone Missionary seems like a solid choice to attack Burn if you have a splash of white. The best counter to burn for green, imo, is Life Goes On. Card is silly. 8 life gain for 1 mana.
While on this topic, has anyone tested out Oracle of Nectars since it's an elf? I've tried Essence Warden before but never get to actually gain any life.
-Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Shaman of the Pack
4 Collected Company
2 Lead the Stampede
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
4 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Elvish Champion
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Collective Brutality
2 Fracturing Gust
Most people will point out to two changes to the deck
1. Why two Lead the Stampede, and only two Chord of Calling? The meta is hostile with spot removal and sweepers. We have to face Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Flaying Tendrils, Anger of the Gods and Supreme Verdict. Lead the Stampede helps us recover from those effects and choose also to not over extend for game wins. Of course this lowers your blowout hands, but Chord of Calling doesn't help you in the situations where you only can target for 1. Two copies have been more than sufficient in the side boarded games when it comes to silver bullets. To also add, most hands I've come across that involve two Chord of Calling has generally been a mulligan.
2. The Manabase - Because of the changes above, the multiple fetch hand increases your hits with Lead the Stampede and Collected Company. You make yourself worse with Burn, but dramatically make up for it with the utility and over performance of Collective Brutality in the sideboard. The smarter players have not beaten me with Sweepers, once some of them had Blood Moon and sweepers it became more difficult for me to recover. This is also a reason for the change. I feel the matchups we gain certain percentages against, dramatically outweigh the single Burn matchup we could face in an 8 round tournament.
My personal record with this exact list;
3-2 League (misplay one match, and my sideboard didn't load against affinity game 3 for the other match)
5-0 League
5-0 League
4-1 League (loss to TitanShift)
4-1 League (loss to UWR Saheeli)
3-1 FNM (loss to GW company, I whiffed on two Collected Company)
3-1 FNM (loss to GBx, Land flooded)
Matchup doesn't feel great, regardless of variant. I think the GW/Abzan lists have an edge because they're able to find Eidolon of Rhetoric. GB has to settle with Thoughtseize which does almost as much work, tbh, but isn't a decisive game winner like Eidolon can be.
In unrelated news, ended up getting killed in the semi's of a PPTQ today after a 5-1 run put me in 2nd seed. Matches were:
UW Control (L)
Jund (W)
4c Humans (W)
RG Tron (W)
UW Control (W)
Affinity (W)
QF: UW Control (R1 guy, W)
SF: UW Control (L)
Running really hot right now, and hope to maintain my current ~70ish % record (10-4 this season!).
Also, catch me playing the list I played for this PPTQ @ 0900 AEST/ 1600 PDT / 1900 EDT / 0000 GMT+1 - if you can't catch it then, you can watch it back when Twitch decides to save the upload.
Decklist:
4x Heritage Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Nettle Sentinel
2x Elvish Visionary
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Shaman of the Pack
2x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Chord of Calling
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Razorverge Thicket
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Forest
3x Horizon Canopy
Sideboard:
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Yixlid Jailer
Round 1 - Burn : 2-1
Round 2 - Eldrazi Tron : 2-1
Round 3 - Abzan : 2-0
Round 4 - Eldrazi Tron : 2-0
Round 5 - Draw
Quarter - Abzan (from R3) : 2-0
Semi - Eldrazi Tron (from R2) : 2-0
Final - Four Color Evolution : 2-1
Mainboard Reclamation Sage was very useful. Round 2, I hitted RS and Archdruid with CoCo, so I was able to get rid of Walking Ballista. Chameleon Colossus was for the Death's Shadow matchup but it's still a good body against Eldrazi Tron.
Right now, I am wondering if I keep Gaddock Teeg, Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Yixlid Jailer in my sideboard. Teeg is good against Tron not Eldrazi Tron. Infect is not played anymore. Yixlid Jailer is good against Dredge but for the most of the time, when you can chord for him, it's already too late.
But overall, Elves is a very good choice for this PPTQ season!
What were your initial thoughts on the combo/Shaman build?
18 lands, 9 white sources exclusive of Cavern minimum.
Was very clunky and I really missed Visionary. The cuteness of the combo didn't outweigh the efficiency of the GB list in my opinion. GW pilots may like the additional angle because they don't have the Shaman angle, GB pilots don't need it though because Shaman becomes the main plan in GB.
I thought the same thing when I was watching the stream. I think I'll stick with the GB + W sideboard I've been using. Appreciate the streaming, keep letting us know when they're posted so I can watch when I'm bored at work.
-Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
Your silver bullet is Eidolon of Rhetoric. Cheaper but vulnerable to bolt, you have Ethersworn Canonist. Please note that the game is far from over even if you chord for an Eidolon, because Storm runs at least 1 or more bounce spells such as Echoing Truths, and many will have merchant scrolls to go look for these. So its imperative to close the game quickly.
A key thing to prevent a combo turn isn't just plunking out the Eidolon or chording for it as soon as you can. If you understand how the combo works you can play around the bolt by chording in response to the combo at a crucial time where they will need the mana to continue, but now are forced to spend R for bolt. Or alternatively if they have exhausted U for their gifts and have only R floating for the Past in Flames / Rituals, you can catch them with their pants down too, so they can't bounce the eidolon. Last but not least, chording for the eidolon when they flashback past in flames makes things really awkward for them.
This is why I play Thing in the Ice in my Gifts Storm sideboard. I respect Elves a lot, being a pilot of it myself.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Really enjoying two Nissa, Vital Force in the board, and I also plan on testing some Garruk Relentless in the board at some point in the future.(maybe up to 3 of them to replace Lead!)
Could you explain the significance of Garruk and Nissa in your sideboard? Idk if I'm over thinking it or what. But I never understood planeswalkers in Elf boards. So I guess I'm asking when you bring them in and how they help. Thanks!
4 Heritage Druid
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Dwynen's Elite
1 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Shaman of the Pack
4 Devoted Druid
1 Vizier of Remedies
4 Collected Company
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
2 Razorvege Thicket
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Westvale Abby
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Path to Exile
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Driven//Despair
1 Aven Mindcensor
R1: beat blue architect, seemed like a bye
R2: lost to GW counters. Combo'd on the play g1, he combo'd g2 on the play, g3 I had the combo for next turn but he hit Aved Mindcensor of a CoCo, which kinda locked me, as he drew 2 paths and a Witness to kill my potential dangerous natural draws.
R3: beat GR Valakut, got a bit lucky, as he flooded and didn't draw Anger g1, g2 I landed a spirit that had me covered.
R4: lost to storm. G1 he combo'd faster, g2 I went for a Westvale t3 with him at 17, he didn't have an answer, g3 I probably misplayed: afraid of Remand, I path'd his Baral on my turn, which ramped him and allowed him to play a second Baral. This also meant 1 less creature in play, thus I couldn't Chord for Eidolon next turn, when he went off. Then I learned he took Remands of. I could have won this one, but the MU doesn't seem great.
R5: Beat Grixis shadow. G1 I elfball quickly, g2 I have a slow start and he has staticaster to clear my board, g3 I put a huge board on t2, and he concedes too soon, although it looked really bad for him.
R6: Beat burn. It didn't seem close, and eidolon seems worse for them than for us.
MVP: Westvale Abby. Won 3-4 games with it, even playing such a small tournament. Totally worth the slot.
HM: The combo. It allows to steal games that if they last, you probably have a hard time winning.
Unknown: Driven/Despair. Never got to cast it. Not sure if better or worse than Lead. I like the idea of ripping their hand apart while drawing a few cards. Those cards are not guaranteed though.
Disappointed: Shaman. I understand why people like it, and that's why I decided to run them too, but at no point during the tournament I was like "oh man I wish I draw/hit a shaman now". Never ever felt that way. I either need to rebuild, or one of the other lords is good enough anyway, so I don't think the extra 3drops are worth - rather have either more Ezuri that saves elves from sweepers or Archdruid that ramps.
Note, of course, that my sample size is really small for some of these conclusions. Manabase is almost assuredely not perfect. Kitchen Finks didn't seem necessary. Path might better be a split with Dismember.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo