I proxied Coco Elves, playtested it a while and love how it plays. Now I'm thinking about buying into it as my first "real" non-budget deck. My hesitation is, that I barely see good results on a competitive level and I don't really understand why? Does Elves have any extreme horror match-ups? I don't need to play a Tier 1 deck, but I think I need something at solid tier 2 power level to compete in long terms, because I want to play the deck for a looong time and stay always viable. I really appreciate your help. I want to play a deck I love but I also like winning. The other deck I like would be GW Hatebears. Please help me to make the right decision
Thank you
If you look at mtgtop8.com you will see in most tournaments that someone plays elves in they do well. Maybe not always first, but usually in top 10. Elves may no longer be Tier One, but people still respect and fear them. For the value, I think elves is one of the most well rounded creature decks. Depending on your budget, and color combination, they can be one of the most affordable modern decks as well.
I think you'll find that they kind of play the same. If you get board wipes in both matchups it's kind of a blowout. I prefer elves because there is so many different ways to play and different variations
I proxied Coco Elves, playtested it a while and love how it plays. Now I'm thinking about buying into it as my first "real" non-budget deck. My hesitation is, that I barely see good results on a competitive level and I don't really understand why? Does Elves have any extreme horror match-ups? I don't need to play a Tier 1 deck, but I think I need something at solid tier 2 power level to compete in long terms, because I want to play the deck for a looong time and stay always viable. I really appreciate your help. I want to play a deck I love but I also like winning. The other deck I like would be GW Hatebears. Please help me to make the right decision
Thank you
Elves is a viable deck for FNM and larger tournaments, period. Adjusting the sideboard to the expected meta and practicing against what you think will be at a given event are going to be important regardless of what deck you play. The power level of the cards in Elves is good enough for it to be a deck to buy into. The biggest upgrade you can make to the deck is the PILOT. Practice until the sequencing is routine so that you can focus on other things happening in the game and what your opponent may be doing. If you make the proper sideboard calls and upgrade the Pilot, Elves has a chance at almost any event, it really does.
Better Pilots make a difference, buy your deck and get to know it well. Play against your deck also, so that you can understand what various decks are trying to do when they play against you.
I know this sounds like practice makes perfect, but it's true. Knowing your list in and out will make you win games that someone who isn't an expert with it would not.
Greetings all, I recently made the swap to Elves for modern (and legacy on a side note) and just wanted to introduce myself. Looking forward to discussion. I'll be going to an IQ this weekend and I'll chime back in with abit of a report.
I proxied Coco Elves, playtested it a while and love how it plays. Now I'm thinking about buying into it as my first "real" non-budget deck. My hesitation is, that I barely see good results on a competitive level and I don't really understand why? Does Elves have any extreme horror match-ups? I don't need to play a Tier 1 deck, but I think I need something at solid tier 2 power level to compete in long terms, because I want to play the deck for a looong time and stay always viable. I really appreciate your help. I want to play a deck I love but I also like winning. The other deck I like would be GW Hatebears. Please help me to make the right decision
Thank you
One of the reasons to play elves is that pro players don't wanna play it since they consider it fringe and maybe too cheap to play. In that regard, we don't have the same risk of having our cards banned. I think that's the long-time investment you're looking for.
I'm sure we have discussed in the prior thread. But I'd like to hear if anyone has any feedback in testing out Narnam Renegade. I was considering sideboarding 1 as a Chord target for removal with blocking.
U have to consider that the "90%" referred to by karsten is having the B to cast thoughtseize specifically. Alternate scenarios are things like 2 Raging Ravines in starting hand and so on. The hand isn't actually dead per se. 10% of hands may not have T1 thoughtseize, but they shock with stomping ground and hold up a bolt instead, or play the manland and curve into confidant turn 2.
Compare this to our deck where not having G producing land in your hand is literally the same as a no-land hand. Its an instant mulligan. Needing to mulligan 10% of your starting hands is a terrible number. And then you draw 6 and the odds of not getting another G land just increases. Can this deck afford to play a Nykthos turn 1 and pass? It can't.
SO Karsten's 90% is a really bad guideline to follow for this deck.
Furthermore, take into account that for lightning bolt decks, aiming them at our dorks is a perfectly sound strategy to slow us down and take the lead. If you're mulliganing to find lands this attrition and 1 for 1 trading is going to hurt really bad, never mind your curve.
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Another hard night...I won game 1 against melira company, lost to bant eldrazi (but was a great match, very close), won against mono blue extra turns (very easy), and lost AGAIN against Valakut....lots of anger, a ramped titan and no silver bullets...I punched the table after the third game and felt very bad after, I dont like that kind of atitude but i was very upset
What could wizards print that would push us into a solid tier one deck, the kind where we start demanding sideboard slots from the meta akin to dredge and affinity but nothing like a 20%+ share.
What is currently holding us back, what hoops do we jump through that slow us down, etc. obviously the entire package for legacy makes for a much different deck (like cradle for example).
Just a thought exercise I was running through. I mean renegade rallier on an elf instead of a human seems like it would be boss. Maybe another redundant heritage effect to increase our consistency? Haste, if even for a turn? I'd love a valid 2 cmc lord. I think all these things could potentially have some merit in supporting the tribe to the next level.
Another hard night...I won game 1 against melira company, lost to bant eldrazi (but was a great match, very close), won against mono blue extra turns (very easy), and lost AGAIN against Valakut....lots of anger, a ramped titan and no silver bullets...I punched the table after the third game and felt very bad after, I dont like that kind of atitude but i was very upset
valakut is a crap match. it just is. it helps reduce the salt later if u go into the match with the right expectations. avoiding valakut is a win. losing to them is normal. beating them is a miracle.
When I played soul sisters and got matched with a burn guy he brought a salty face to the table. I was like, "come on man I gave you basically a walkover with grixis the last time" and he smiled.
If your deck can beat anything, it gets banned real quick. Take it from someone who played twin and then eldrazi. Relish the bad match ups together with the good; both are necessary for your deck to survive.
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What is currently holding us back, what hoops do we jump through that slow us down, etc. obviously the entire package for legacy makes for a much different deck (like cradle for example).
Maybe some kind of way to protect our Elves on board without disrupting our gameplan with the option to grind in the lategame.
Yes, I have Wirewood Symbiote in mind. But I think the card as it stands is too strong. Though it serves a similiar role as Arcbound Ravager. It leads to awkward removal situations and provides tempo as it buffs other creatures.
I don't know if Symbiote might actually be balanced or if a nerfed version might be even worth it. Just my thoughts.
What is currently holding us back, what [quote from="mapccu »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/767834-collected-company-elves?comment=106"]What is currently holding us back, what hoops do we jump through that slow us down, etc. obviously the entire package for legacy makes for a much different deck (like cradle for example).
Maybe some kind of way to protect outlr Elves in board without disrupting our gameplan with the option to grind in the lategame.
Yes, I have Wirewood Symbiote in mind. But I think the card as it stands is too strong. Though it serves a similiar role as Arcbound Ravager. It leads to awkward remov situations and provides tempo as it buffs other creatures.
I don't know if Symbiote might actually be balanced or if a nerfed version might be even worth it. Just my thoughts.
</blockquote>
Yeh that's a good point. Something like selfless spirit was definateky an upgrade to what we had access to but the one shot effects aren't what I want. Ezuri's inability to protect himself is also frustrating.
What could wizards print that would push us into a solid tier one deck, the kind where we start demanding sideboard slots from the meta akin to dredge and affinity but nothing like a 20%+ share.
What is currently holding us back, what hoops do we jump through that slow us down, etc. obviously the entire package for legacy makes for a much different deck (like cradle for example).
Just a thought exercise I was running through. I mean renegade rallier on an elf instead of a human seems like it would be boss. Maybe another redundant heritage effect to increase our consistency? Haste, if even for a turn? I'd love a valid 2 cmc lord. I think all these things could potentially have some merit in supporting the tribe to the next level.
This is an interesting question. I think we have a great game plan, plenty of speed, and more raw power than most decks. The big problem for us is and has always been a diversity of sweeper effects, like Pyroclasm or Ugin -Xing, and the tenuousness of our answers to those threats as a result of their diversity. It's not the sweepers: it's the variety of sweepers.
I don't see WoTC printing anything better than Selfless Spirit or Phyrexian Revoker to help the various Elves decks get around those cards, and certainly not something that helps us get around all of the various sweepers we face. But, ideally, such a card would have relevant effects on a low-cost elf body that we could CoCo into, Chord for, or play proactively and up to x4 of in the main.
More than likely, our path to T1 is through an Eldrazi Winter-esque meta shift. A card or even a whole series of cards will be printed that will create a T1 deck from nothing. This deck will either eat our natural predators alive or be so fast and consistent that the only way to beat 'em is to Elf them to death. Perhaps we would have seen something similar if WoTC hadn't nerfed Eldrazi back in April.
3-1 At FNM (this is a few months old but I've only just gotten around to writing this one down.)
M1: Infect
Game 1, kept a fast opening hand and was able to race.
Game 2, landed a turn 2 spellskite that was met with twisted image, otherwise his hand was slow and the game came down to a misplay where he didn't activate pendelhaven prior to his exalted buff. It felt bad to win off an opponent punt but I had already let him fix that very same mistake in game 1.
1-0
M2: Breach titan
Game 1: I was very lucky to have a fast start with lots of mana, when he eventually found his anger of the gods I was ready with a chord for ezuri pump to save my team, I won on the next turn.
Game 2: I played out my hand as best I could but hit turn 3 anger. He followed up with a titan the next turn for the game.
Game 3: This match was in the top two that I have ever played. The first few turns involve both of us developing our boards, and I am playing very cautiously to play around anger. He tries to anger twice in a row, but both times I am ready with a chord for burrenton-forge tender or selfless spirit. My opponent boarded in crumble to dust for some reason so I get hit with that to take out a land, meanwhile my mana dorks and shaman chip him down to 7 life. Opponent untaps and through the breach-emrakuls me, down to 3 life, no lands, and six power on board. I attack to put him to one and pass. He draws a primeval titan and through the breaches it and kills me with valakut. Losing that land to crumble actually won him the game. Great game
1-1
M3:soul sisters.
G1:My brother always plays soul sisters so I have a lot of experience with it, and I can honestly say its a coin flip, you absolutley need Ezuri for the kill (since you give them such a high life total), and ezuri pretty much always wins, but if they have more paths then your ezuris you will lose to serra ascendants. I was lucky game 1 and stuck my last ezuri for the win.
G2: My dumped out sisters and got to 30 life quickly turning on his serra ascendants. The beat downs insued and I nearly died but a chord for ezuri sealed the deal in my favor.
2-1
M4: Dredge (this was pre-ban)
G1: My opponents deck looked like a complete pile in this game, and I just killed him before he was able to do anything.
G2: My opponent didn't have a fast start, but he found all of his conflagrates quickly, I sanbagged my elves as long as possible until I eventually stuck a scavenging ooze with plenty of mana. I exiled all of the threats in his yard but still didn't have a way to end the game. My scooze worked its way up to a 27/27 before I finally found an ezuri and finished him off.
3-1
That was the last round of the night, I'll admit that I ran well and had some good luck, but the deck continued to impress me. I had a lot of fun and look forward to the next time I can get a friday off from school stuff to go play again.
3-1 At FNM (this is a few months old but I've only just gotten around to writing this one down.)
M1: Infect
Game 1, kept a fast opening hand and was able to race.
Game 2, landed a turn 2 spellskite that was met with twisted image, otherwise his hand was slow and the game came down to a misplay where he didn't activate pendelhaven prior to his exalted buff. It felt bad to win off an opponent punt but I had already let him fix that very same mistake in game 1.
1-0
M2: Breach titan
Game 1: I was very lucky to have a fast start with lots of mana, when he eventually found his anger of the gods I was ready with a chord for ezuri pump to save my team, I won on the next turn.
Game 2: I played out my hand as best I could but hit turn 3 anger. He followed up with a titan the next turn for the game.
Game 3: This match was in the top two that I have ever played. The first few turns involve both of us developing our boards, and I am playing very cautiously to play around anger. He tries to anger twice in a row, but both times I am ready with a chord for burrenton-forge tender or selfless spirit. My opponent boarded in crumble to dust for some reason so I get hit with that to take out a land, meanwhile my mana dorks and shaman chip him down to 7 life. Opponent untaps and through the breach-emrakuls me, down to 3 life, no lands, and six power on board. I attack to put him to one and pass. He draws a primeval titan and through the breaches it and kills me with valakut. Losing that land to crumble actually won him the game. Great game
1-1
M3:soul sisters.
G1:My brother always plays soul sisters so I have a lot of experience with it, and I can honestly say its a coin flip, you absolutley need Ezuri for the kill (since you give them such a high life total), and ezuri pretty much always wins, but if they have more paths then your ezuris you will lose to serra ascendants. I was lucky game 1 and stuck my last ezuri for the win.
G2: My dumped out sisters and got to 30 life quickly turning on his serra ascendants. The beat downs insued and I nearly died but a chord for ezuri sealed the deal in my favor.
2-1
M4: Dredge (this was pre-ban)
G1: My opponents deck looked like a complete pile in this game, and I just killed him before he was able to do anything.
G2: My opponent didn't have a fast start, but he found all of his conflagrates quickly, I sanbagged my elves as long as possible until I eventually stuck a scavenging ooze with plenty of mana. I exiled all of the threats in his yard but still didn't have a way to end the game. My scooze worked its way up to a 27/27 before I finally found an ezuri and finished him off.
3-1
That was the last round of the night, I'll admit that I ran well and had some good luck, but the deck continued to impress me. I had a lot of fun and look forward to the next time I can get a friday off from school stuff to go play again.
I agree with the sisters sentiment. There is a guy at my LGS who runs them from time to time and it does require ezuri every game unless his deck just doesn't come together. 3-1 is a respectable finish through dredge and breach though. I always feel favored against infect, I've never been that afraid of the matchup.
3-1 At FNM (this is a few months old but I've only just gotten around to writing this one down.)
M1: Infect
Game 1, kept a fast opening hand and was able to race.
Game 2, landed a turn 2 spellskite that was met with twisted image, otherwise his hand was slow and the game came down to a misplay where he didn't activate pendelhaven prior to his exalted buff. It felt bad to win off an opponent punt but I had already let him fix that very same mistake in game 1.
1-0
M2: Breach titan
Game 1: I was very lucky to have a fast start with lots of mana, when he eventually found his anger of the gods I was ready with a chord for ezuri pump to save my team, I won on the next turn.
Game 2: I played out my hand as best I could but hit turn 3 anger. He followed up with a titan the next turn for the game.
Game 3: This match was in the top two that I have ever played. The first few turns involve both of us developing our boards, and I am playing very cautiously to play around anger. He tries to anger twice in a row, but both times I am ready with a chord for burrenton-forge tender or selfless spirit. My opponent boarded in crumble to dust for some reason so I get hit with that to take out a land, meanwhile my mana dorks and shaman chip him down to 7 life. Opponent untaps and through the breach-emrakuls me, down to 3 life, no lands, and six power on board. I attack to put him to one and pass. He draws a primeval titan and through the breaches it and kills me with valakut. Losing that land to crumble actually won him the game. Great game
1-1
M3:soul sisters.
G1:My brother always plays soul sisters so I have a lot of experience with it, and I can honestly say its a coin flip, you absolutley need Ezuri for the kill (since you give them such a high life total), and ezuri pretty much always wins, but if they have more paths then your ezuris you will lose to serra ascendants. I was lucky game 1 and stuck my last ezuri for the win.
G2: My dumped out sisters and got to 30 life quickly turning on his serra ascendants. The beat downs insued and I nearly died but a chord for ezuri sealed the deal in my favor.
2-1
M4: Dredge (this was pre-ban)
G1: My opponents deck looked like a complete pile in this game, and I just killed him before he was able to do anything.
G2: My opponent didn't have a fast start, but he found all of his conflagrates quickly, I sanbagged my elves as long as possible until I eventually stuck a scavenging ooze with plenty of mana. I exiled all of the threats in his yard but still didn't have a way to end the game. My scooze worked its way up to a 27/27 before I finally found an ezuri and finished him off.
3-1
That was the last round of the night, I'll admit that I ran well and had some good luck, but the deck continued to impress me. I had a lot of fun and look forward to the next time I can get a friday off from school stuff to go play again.
I agree with the sisters sentiment. There is a guy at my LGS who runs them from time to time and it does require ezuri every game unless his deck just doesn't come together. 3-1 is a respectable finish through dredge and breach though. I always feel favored against infect, I've never been that afraid of the matchup.
I've gone back and forth running 2 to 4 Essence Wardens main over Nettles and have played a guy at my LGS who runs sisters several times. Each time I successfully out-sistered him - running even one Essence Warden probably can go a long way towards mitigating their beatdown.
3-1 at tonight's FNM out of a field of 11. Decks included: RG Tooth and Nail, 4-Color CoCo Allies, RG Titanshift, UR Delver, Jund, Affinity, Abzan Hatebears, Isochron Lock, Tezzerator, and a couple others I didn't see.
I decided to cut the Elvish Visionaries outright for tonight, as I had been thinking about playing two but opted for the Spellskite and Scavenging Ooze mainboard instead. Sideboard is a bit of a grab bag as I haven't been to FNM in a while and wanted to try and cover everything. I'm obviously running the same spell loadout as ryansaxe, as I've found my local meta to be a little grindier with less emphasis on the blowout aggro decks like Infect and Jund. Report follows under the spoiler.
Match 1 - RG Tooth and Nail
0-2. This pilot has a tendency to play slightly more gimmicky decks and switched recently from pure Mono-G Devotion to this build, which has a lot more depth. He's a good player who plays (usually) bad decks, in other words. This match was also the only one where I lost the die roll.
These were short and to the point - he went off on turn three both games, which is something we can't really handle. For those of you who aren't familiar, these decks combine Enchant Lands like Utopia Sprawl and Overgrowth with land untappers like Voyaging Satyr and Arbor Elf to drop Tooth and Nail fast, usually going for an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Xenagod to swing with 30 hasty, annihilator 6 power. It feels to me like, short of an Aven Mindcensor, there is extremely little we can do against their nut draw. Fortunately, this deck is (like most pure ramp decks) prone to whiffing and drawing all fast mana or all business. The pilot was only able to go off at all in two other games all night. The deck is also fairly unpopular so trying to accommodate it is probably not in our best interest, usually.
Match 2 - 4-Color CoCo Allies
2-0. This pilot is honestly the weakest player in the local meta and has no head for combat math, frequently making mistakes that end up losing him the game. That being said, Allies are pretty linear and he gets wins on much better players with surprising frequency due to the deck's explosiveness.
Game 1: I lead with an Elvish Mystic into T2 Elite, Heritage Druid, and a 5-creature Lead the Stampede. Just about any deck would struggle against that, but he had almost stabilized before making a poor attack into a Chorded Archdruid and in-combat Ezuri pump (which he always forgets about). I destroyed all his attackers and swung back on my turn for about a billion damage.
In: 2 Chord, Forge-Tender (to block and kill Akoum Battlesingers), Phyrexian Revoker (for Vials). Out: 3 Leads, 1 Spellskite. Allies are deceptively fast and I want access to as much speed as possible here. He only plays two paths, I think, so Spellskite is fairly useless.
Game 2: This was much closer, as he was on the play and had some big early beaters (Allies have a surprising amount of juice), but I had an Archdruid and 3 dorks on T3, which let me CoCo during his attack step to find double Shaman of the Pack, nailing him for 12 and letting me counterattack on my T4 for exactly lethal despite losing all three of my dorks to stay alive.
Match 3 - RG Titanshift
2-0. This pilot is arguably the best player in the meta, but was having a bad night off a poor performance yesterday night as well. He had lost pretty badly in his second match and was tilted pretty hard, which I think led to him keeping some less than optimal hands.
Game 1: He draws no interaction and I Chord for an Ezuri at the end of his T3 to win T4.
In: 2 Chord, 1 Forge-Tender (for Angers), 1 Mindcensor (for Scapeshift and Titans), 1 Extraction (in case he discards a Valakut or just to get rid of all his wipes). Out: 3 Lead, 1 Shaman, 1 Nettle. This deck is not an attrition game and I just need to outspeed his combo and outplay boardwipes.
Game 2: He kept a hand with plenty of interaction but I was able to dump my hand T2 and had a lot of redundancy in threat protection, with a Selfless Spirit succeeded by a Forge-Tender and a Chorded Spellskite. He scooped to Elite beats.
Match 3 - UR Delver
2-1. This pilot played UR Pyro Ascension Storm before the Gitaxian Probe banning, and I suspect he switched to Delver as a result of said banning. He's very hard to read and very good at combat math, but has a tendency to underestimate how much mana he needs, which screwed him games 1 and 3 of this match.
Game 1: He bolts my t1 Mystic but I drop two more dorks T2 which he has no answer to, as he is stuck on one land until T4. He never flipped a Delver and the 7 damage he took from cracking and fetching was just too much for the pressure I could apply.
In: 2 Chord, 1 Forge-Tender, 1 Extraction (I always put this in against red decks because Extracting someone's other 3 bolts after they burn a dork is great). Out: 3 Lead, 1 Nettle. (I probably should have taken out a Heritage Druid as well to put in Revoker, for Lavamancers. Oh well.)
Game 2: He play a Delver T1, a Delver and a Lavamancer T2, and proceeds to keep everything I had off the board (even though his Delvers didn't flip for another 3 turns).
Game 3: He keeps another 1-land hand and drops a Lavamancer T1, but isn't able to draw into enough removal to slow down attack phases from several small elves.
Amusingly, despite my preference for Leads based on what is usually a slower meta, I always sided out the Leads for Chords in game 2. I ended up at 3rd overall, with 1st and 2nd going to an undefeated Affinity player and the Tezzerator player he beat in the last match.
I almost didn't notice the lack of Visionaries. However, I think I also lucked out with some of my post-board draws and with some of the bullets in game 1s. Definitely didn't miss having 4 chords, and am generally was much happier to see either 1 lead 1 chord or 2 leads. I need to stop keeping hands with 2 Shamans, though, because I keep doing it and it never works. Pretty happy with where the deck is at now, though I do intend to pick up 3 Caverns, replacing 2 Forests and Okina.
If you look at mtgtop8.com you will see in most tournaments that someone plays elves in they do well. Maybe not always first, but usually in top 10. Elves may no longer be Tier One, but people still respect and fear them. For the value, I think elves is one of the most well rounded creature decks. Depending on your budget, and color combination, they can be one of the most affordable modern decks as well.
Elves is a viable deck for FNM and larger tournaments, period. Adjusting the sideboard to the expected meta and practicing against what you think will be at a given event are going to be important regardless of what deck you play. The power level of the cards in Elves is good enough for it to be a deck to buy into. The biggest upgrade you can make to the deck is the PILOT. Practice until the sequencing is routine so that you can focus on other things happening in the game and what your opponent may be doing. If you make the proper sideboard calls and upgrade the Pilot, Elves has a chance at almost any event, it really does.
Better Pilots make a difference, buy your deck and get to know it well. Play against your deck also, so that you can understand what various decks are trying to do when they play against you.
I know this sounds like practice makes perfect, but it's true. Knowing your list in and out will make you win games that someone who isn't an expert with it would not.
One of the reasons to play elves is that pro players don't wanna play it since they consider it fringe and maybe too cheap to play. In that regard, we don't have the same risk of having our cards banned. I think that's the long-time investment you're looking for.
Any thoughts ?
My Mana base is:
4 Fastland GW
2 Fastland BG
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Nykthos
4 Forest
Compare this to our deck where not having G producing land in your hand is literally the same as a no-land hand. Its an instant mulligan. Needing to mulligan 10% of your starting hands is a terrible number. And then you draw 6 and the odds of not getting another G land just increases. Can this deck afford to play a Nykthos turn 1 and pass? It can't.
SO Karsten's 90% is a really bad guideline to follow for this deck.
Furthermore, take into account that for lightning bolt decks, aiming them at our dorks is a perfectly sound strategy to slow us down and take the lead. If you're mulliganing to find lands this attrition and 1 for 1 trading is going to hurt really bad, never mind your curve.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
What could wizards print that would push us into a solid tier one deck, the kind where we start demanding sideboard slots from the meta akin to dredge and affinity but nothing like a 20%+ share.
What is currently holding us back, what hoops do we jump through that slow us down, etc. obviously the entire package for legacy makes for a much different deck (like cradle for example).
Just a thought exercise I was running through. I mean renegade rallier on an elf instead of a human seems like it would be boss. Maybe another redundant heritage effect to increase our consistency? Haste, if even for a turn? I'd love a valid 2 cmc lord. I think all these things could potentially have some merit in supporting the tribe to the next level.
valakut is a crap match. it just is. it helps reduce the salt later if u go into the match with the right expectations. avoiding valakut is a win. losing to them is normal. beating them is a miracle.
When I played soul sisters and got matched with a burn guy he brought a salty face to the table. I was like, "come on man I gave you basically a walkover with grixis the last time" and he smiled.
If your deck can beat anything, it gets banned real quick. Take it from someone who played twin and then eldrazi. Relish the bad match ups together with the good; both are necessary for your deck to survive.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Thank you very much for the words...it helped a lot, seriously =)
I`ll pratice more often and harder to be better with deck...I still making some mistakes and Im sure my sidboarding is wrong sometimes
Maybe some kind of way to protect our Elves on board without disrupting our gameplan with the option to grind in the lategame.
Yes, I have Wirewood Symbiote in mind. But I think the card as it stands is too strong. Though it serves a similiar role as Arcbound Ravager. It leads to awkward removal situations and provides tempo as it buffs other creatures.
I don't know if Symbiote might actually be balanced or if a nerfed version might be even worth it. Just my thoughts.
Edit: Typos. Writing on mobile is suboptimal.
Yeh that's a good point. Something like selfless spirit was definateky an upgrade to what we had access to but the one shot effects aren't what I want. Ezuri's inability to protect himself is also frustrating.
This is an interesting question. I think we have a great game plan, plenty of speed, and more raw power than most decks. The big problem for us is and has always been a diversity of sweeper effects, like Pyroclasm or Ugin -Xing, and the tenuousness of our answers to those threats as a result of their diversity. It's not the sweepers: it's the variety of sweepers.
I don't see WoTC printing anything better than Selfless Spirit or Phyrexian Revoker to help the various Elves decks get around those cards, and certainly not something that helps us get around all of the various sweepers we face. But, ideally, such a card would have relevant effects on a low-cost elf body that we could CoCo into, Chord for, or play proactively and up to x4 of in the main.
More than likely, our path to T1 is through an Eldrazi Winter-esque meta shift. A card or even a whole series of cards will be printed that will create a T1 deck from nothing. This deck will either eat our natural predators alive or be so fast and consistent that the only way to beat 'em is to Elf them to death. Perhaps we would have seen something similar if WoTC hadn't nerfed Eldrazi back in April.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
M1: Infect
Game 1, kept a fast opening hand and was able to race.
Game 2, landed a turn 2 spellskite that was met with twisted image, otherwise his hand was slow and the game came down to a misplay where he didn't activate pendelhaven prior to his exalted buff. It felt bad to win off an opponent punt but I had already let him fix that very same mistake in game 1.
1-0
M2: Breach titan
Game 1: I was very lucky to have a fast start with lots of mana, when he eventually found his anger of the gods I was ready with a chord for ezuri pump to save my team, I won on the next turn.
Game 2: I played out my hand as best I could but hit turn 3 anger. He followed up with a titan the next turn for the game.
Game 3: This match was in the top two that I have ever played. The first few turns involve both of us developing our boards, and I am playing very cautiously to play around anger. He tries to anger twice in a row, but both times I am ready with a chord for burrenton-forge tender or selfless spirit. My opponent boarded in crumble to dust for some reason so I get hit with that to take out a land, meanwhile my mana dorks and shaman chip him down to 7 life. Opponent untaps and through the breach-emrakuls me, down to 3 life, no lands, and six power on board. I attack to put him to one and pass. He draws a primeval titan and through the breaches it and kills me with valakut. Losing that land to crumble actually won him the game. Great game
1-1
M3:soul sisters.
G1:My brother always plays soul sisters so I have a lot of experience with it, and I can honestly say its a coin flip, you absolutley need Ezuri for the kill (since you give them such a high life total), and ezuri pretty much always wins, but if they have more paths then your ezuris you will lose to serra ascendants. I was lucky game 1 and stuck my last ezuri for the win.
G2: My dumped out sisters and got to 30 life quickly turning on his serra ascendants. The beat downs insued and I nearly died but a chord for ezuri sealed the deal in my favor.
2-1
M4: Dredge (this was pre-ban)
G1: My opponents deck looked like a complete pile in this game, and I just killed him before he was able to do anything.
G2: My opponent didn't have a fast start, but he found all of his conflagrates quickly, I sanbagged my elves as long as possible until I eventually stuck a scavenging ooze with plenty of mana. I exiled all of the threats in his yard but still didn't have a way to end the game. My scooze worked its way up to a 27/27 before I finally found an ezuri and finished him off.
3-1
That was the last round of the night, I'll admit that I ran well and had some good luck, but the deck continued to impress me. I had a lot of fun and look forward to the next time I can get a friday off from school stuff to go play again.
I agree with the sisters sentiment. There is a guy at my LGS who runs them from time to time and it does require ezuri every game unless his deck just doesn't come together. 3-1 is a respectable finish through dredge and breach though. I always feel favored against infect, I've never been that afraid of the matchup.
I've gone back and forth running 2 to 4 Essence Wardens main over Nettles and have played a guy at my LGS who runs sisters several times. Each time I successfully out-sistered him - running even one Essence Warden probably can go a long way towards mitigating their beatdown.
I'm running the following list:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
3 Nettle Sentinel
2 Essence Warden
4 Dwynen's Elite
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Shaman of the Pack
4 Collected Company
3 Lead the Stampede
1 Chord of Calling
Lands - 18
4 Forest
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Pendelhaven
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Chord of Calling
1 Elvish Champion
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Yixlid Jailer
I decided to cut the Elvish Visionaries outright for tonight, as I had been thinking about playing two but opted for the Spellskite and Scavenging Ooze mainboard instead. Sideboard is a bit of a grab bag as I haven't been to FNM in a while and wanted to try and cover everything. I'm obviously running the same spell loadout as ryansaxe, as I've found my local meta to be a little grindier with less emphasis on the blowout aggro decks like Infect and Jund. Report follows under the spoiler.
0-2. This pilot has a tendency to play slightly more gimmicky decks and switched recently from pure Mono-G Devotion to this build, which has a lot more depth. He's a good player who plays (usually) bad decks, in other words. This match was also the only one where I lost the die roll.
These were short and to the point - he went off on turn three both games, which is something we can't really handle. For those of you who aren't familiar, these decks combine Enchant Lands like Utopia Sprawl and Overgrowth with land untappers like Voyaging Satyr and Arbor Elf to drop Tooth and Nail fast, usually going for an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Xenagod to swing with 30 hasty, annihilator 6 power. It feels to me like, short of an Aven Mindcensor, there is extremely little we can do against their nut draw. Fortunately, this deck is (like most pure ramp decks) prone to whiffing and drawing all fast mana or all business. The pilot was only able to go off at all in two other games all night. The deck is also fairly unpopular so trying to accommodate it is probably not in our best interest, usually.
Match 2 - 4-Color CoCo Allies
2-0. This pilot is honestly the weakest player in the local meta and has no head for combat math, frequently making mistakes that end up losing him the game. That being said, Allies are pretty linear and he gets wins on much better players with surprising frequency due to the deck's explosiveness.
Game 1: I lead with an Elvish Mystic into T2 Elite, Heritage Druid, and a 5-creature Lead the Stampede. Just about any deck would struggle against that, but he had almost stabilized before making a poor attack into a Chorded Archdruid and in-combat Ezuri pump (which he always forgets about). I destroyed all his attackers and swung back on my turn for about a billion damage.
In: 2 Chord, Forge-Tender (to block and kill Akoum Battlesingers), Phyrexian Revoker (for Vials). Out: 3 Leads, 1 Spellskite. Allies are deceptively fast and I want access to as much speed as possible here. He only plays two paths, I think, so Spellskite is fairly useless.
Game 2: This was much closer, as he was on the play and had some big early beaters (Allies have a surprising amount of juice), but I had an Archdruid and 3 dorks on T3, which let me CoCo during his attack step to find double Shaman of the Pack, nailing him for 12 and letting me counterattack on my T4 for exactly lethal despite losing all three of my dorks to stay alive.
Match 3 - RG Titanshift
2-0. This pilot is arguably the best player in the meta, but was having a bad night off a poor performance yesterday night as well. He had lost pretty badly in his second match and was tilted pretty hard, which I think led to him keeping some less than optimal hands.
Game 1: He draws no interaction and I Chord for an Ezuri at the end of his T3 to win T4.
In: 2 Chord, 1 Forge-Tender (for Angers), 1 Mindcensor (for Scapeshift and Titans), 1 Extraction (in case he discards a Valakut or just to get rid of all his wipes). Out: 3 Lead, 1 Shaman, 1 Nettle. This deck is not an attrition game and I just need to outspeed his combo and outplay boardwipes.
Game 2: He kept a hand with plenty of interaction but I was able to dump my hand T2 and had a lot of redundancy in threat protection, with a Selfless Spirit succeeded by a Forge-Tender and a Chorded Spellskite. He scooped to Elite beats.
Match 3 - UR Delver
2-1. This pilot played UR Pyro Ascension Storm before the Gitaxian Probe banning, and I suspect he switched to Delver as a result of said banning. He's very hard to read and very good at combat math, but has a tendency to underestimate how much mana he needs, which screwed him games 1 and 3 of this match.
Game 1: He bolts my t1 Mystic but I drop two more dorks T2 which he has no answer to, as he is stuck on one land until T4. He never flipped a Delver and the 7 damage he took from cracking and fetching was just too much for the pressure I could apply.
In: 2 Chord, 1 Forge-Tender, 1 Extraction (I always put this in against red decks because Extracting someone's other 3 bolts after they burn a dork is great). Out: 3 Lead, 1 Nettle. (I probably should have taken out a Heritage Druid as well to put in Revoker, for Lavamancers. Oh well.)
Game 2: He play a Delver T1, a Delver and a Lavamancer T2, and proceeds to keep everything I had off the board (even though his Delvers didn't flip for another 3 turns).
Game 3: He keeps another 1-land hand and drops a Lavamancer T1, but isn't able to draw into enough removal to slow down attack phases from several small elves.
Amusingly, despite my preference for Leads based on what is usually a slower meta, I always sided out the Leads for Chords in game 2. I ended up at 3rd overall, with 1st and 2nd going to an undefeated Affinity player and the Tezzerator player he beat in the last match.
I almost didn't notice the lack of Visionaries. However, I think I also lucked out with some of my post-board draws and with some of the bullets in game 1s. Definitely didn't miss having 4 chords, and am generally was much happier to see either 1 lead 1 chord or 2 leads. I need to stop keeping hands with 2 Shamans, though, because I keep doing it and it never works. Pretty happy with where the deck is at now, though I do intend to pick up 3 Caverns, replacing 2 Forests and Okina.