Quote from Lantern »
Not going to list all the millions of changes I did in the last 7 hours... But Since there was an update:
Tiers updated... ALOT
Some of you may have noticed the tiering updating has lagged behind alot recently. Our data collection manager (ktken) is retiring from staff, so collection has been pretty hard for us. We are changing our systems completly, and over the next month I'll be rolling out the new benchmarks we use to tiering and testing them over the next half a year or so.
So just bare with us for a month, and everything will be clear and tip top shape.
Wouldn't confidant come in in all control matches as well as your alt win condition against leylines? I myself use 4 pack rats and am very happy with them but I dedicate to that mode when I go into it which can be troublesome. I normally like to see a surgical t1 peek at hand and discard and a pack rat. You can pretty confidently put out pack rats on turn 2 then and just win.
I thought I would share something that happened recently in a 120 Face to Face open in T.O.
I play 5 or 6 colorless sources in my main deck. I am playing against B/G infect. We are on game 3 and he is holding 4 cards in hand and is low on life and I have 2 racks out and a GQ, swamp and mutavault on the playing field. They were all in my starting hand and I hadn't seen a land drop Ive killed a bunch of infect creatures at this point we have both been in top deck mode off and on for a few turns. My opponent plays the 2/2 black infect creature. I am holding a smallpox and praying for a black source to play it on my next top deck. I miss and draw inquisition and use it and see a pump,pump and a land I think it was blossoming defence. Anyways he swings next turn then pumps for 10 infect and bango I'm dead. I must have been tired because I clearly made some serious mistakes in this situation. I should have GQed my mutavault for 2nd black source and won on the back of that small pox. So just a reminder get very familiar with your deck if your going to play GQs and remember they can be used on yourself!
I thought I would share something that happened recently in a 120 Face to Face open in T.O.
I play 5 or 6 colorless sources in my main deck. I am playing against B/G infect. We are on game 3 and he is holding 4 cards in hand and is low on life and I have 2 racks out and a GQ, swamp and mutavault on the playing field. They were all in my starting hand and I hadn't seen a land drop Ive killed a bunch of infect creatures at this point we have both been in top deck mode off and on for a few turns. My opponent plays the 2/2 black infect creature. I am holding a smallpox and praying for a black source to play it on my next top deck. I miss and draw inquisition and use it and see a pump,pump and a land I think it was blossoming defence. Anyways he swings next turn then pumps for 10 infect and bango I'm dead. I must have been tired because I clearly made some serious mistakes in this situation. I should have GQed my mutavault for 2nd black source and won on the back of that small pox. So just a reminder get very familiar with your deck if your going to play GQs and remember they can be used on yourself!
I had a very similar experience last week at a GPT. The only difference was that I had two Mutavault and no GQ... =(
20 cards into the deck and only one swamp, that's magic for you.
@aleixarboix
I've added two Ensnaring Bridge and a Damnation to my sideboard for decks that go wide such as Eldrazi and fish. Unfortunately I have yet to play vs any eldratron.
I am hereby asking everybody who wants to participate to submit a decklist within the next week (end date: May 8th, 2017) and then I will put a poll up on the top so anyone can vote on what they think best represents the ideal 8Rack. I'm looking for mono-black builds with lots of four-ofs and without meta tech choices/considerations.
Esperino, I wanted to respond to your invitation for a clean list for the primer.
I attended a SCG Invitational Qualifier in Minneapolis yesterday and specifically brought a list I thought would be a good candidate for the primer. It's a mono-black smallpox list. It was a six round event, started 4-0 only dropping a game, then drew into the top8. Won my first round but then lost in the semi-finals to a deck I beat earlier in the day. We chopped the money at top4 so there wasn't a lot at stake.
This deck can beat almost any deck in the format and continues to be in an excellent spot.
The list ran four wrench mind in place of collective brutality. I still very much like brutality and may run it in vegas, but for now, I'm willing to concede it is a meta call and much more difficult to play properly than wrench mind. Of the 40 players at this event, we had 15 burn players. Wrench mind can hold it's own against burn. CB is probably not something we want new rack players experimenting with until they feel comfortable.
The sideboard is another discussion and also very much meta dependant.
In my view, the start of 8-rack matches revolve around making your opponent pay dearly for keeps and decisions that are normally excellent. Have you ever played a match, looked at your first seven and thought "This hand is awesome, perfect curve!" Then your opponent casts a turn 1 thoughtseize and you ask yourself why you kept it in the first place.
Smallpox is this same feeling but much, much worse. Most opponents can't recover from losing the land, a card, and any creature they may have dumped. It's even harder after you resolve a turn 1 inquisition or thoughtseize.
Out of curiosity has anyone tried Gideon of the Trials yet? I haven't played modern in a little while and I'm curious if this little guy has a shot in here or if the double white is a deal breaker. I won a draft the other day and grabbed one, I'm debating whether to keep or trade it.
I use the exact same list, but the Dismember instead or Fatal Push (is it the Reid duke list?) What is opinion concercning the two removals? Congrats for your Top 4 btw
So I see some lists here run Night of Souls' betrayal sb. how many of you have run it g2/3 and successfully cast it? What match ups do u bring it in against? I am assuming infect, and elves/fish? anything else?
Because currently I already have Night Souls' betrayal, flaying tendrils, and 2 ensnaring bridges. I have one spot open and was thinking of adding damnation for bigger creatures like eldrazi; however with all these expensive cmc cards, idk if it would be redundant to add a damnation or just more efficient to take out night souls for a damnation
So I see some lists here run Night of Souls' betrayal sb. how many of you have run it g2/3 and successfully cast it? What match ups do u bring it in against? I am assuming infect, and elves/fish? anything else?
Because currently I already have Night Souls' betrayal, flaying tendrils, and 2 ensnaring bridges. I have one spot open and was thinking of adding damnation for bigger creatures like eldrazi; however with all these expensive cmc cards, idk if it would be redundant to add a damnation or just more efficient to take out night souls for a damnation
I think Night of Souls' Betrayal really shines against decks like Affinity; almost everything they play is a 1/1 and it kills their lands if they animate them. They have a couple ways around it, but you can manually take care of those. For the most part a situation like that will stop them almost completely in their tracks.
If I were you, I'd probably just add another bridge to make it 3. That should stop big Eldrazi enough to not really worry.
On a separate note:
What's the difference between having Bobs vs Asylum Visitors? Don't Visitors benefit our deck more given that we're likely drawing an extra card each turn (opposed to just our own) and it acts decently with Smallpox and Liliana?
Additionally I am suddenly aware that I might have to play the mirror soon. Any ideas? I'm already eyeing Visitor, maybe Bloodchief Ascension because it costs 1, but Gibbering Descent basically wins G2 and probably G3 outright if it hits the field. There's also the unhappy punch to the wallet from Bloodghast and they might be more sideboard relevant against not the mirror as well.
I also went to a small Modern night last night, here's my piece:
R1 vs UR Storm.
He made a mistake in comboing G1 and died the next turn. G2, I brought 4 Surgicals and removed his only 2 win conditions (Grapeshot) and just let 8Rack do the rest. 2-0 win
R2 vs Eldrazi Tron.
Gross.
G1: He dropped an Endbringer which almost entirely counters 8Rack and just proceeded to win with minimal effort. I was also holding 3 lands in my hand with 4 in play, so I was pretty flooded.
G2: I bring in the obvious Crumbles but don't draw one. I don't think it made a huge difference because he never assembled tron, just dropped enough medium sized dudes to beat me.
0-2 loss
R3 vs Affinity.
G1: Quick out the gate, drained his hand really fast, but I kept a hand of 3 Racks because I knew what he was playing. I didn't really do anything else, he just couldn't keep up. Felt like a cheap win.
G2: He starts with Leyline of Sanctity and I'm looking at 2 Thoughtseize an Affliction, 2 land, a pox, and Funeral Charm. Thankfully, none of our damage dealers target so I was still sort of in business. That one pox did a ton of work, I also managed to top a decent chunk of my removal. Kolaghan's Command was worth every play being a massive 2 for 1 at every turn. He played a good many things, but could not keep a board big enough to out pace my 3 damage every turn. 2-0
I went 2-1 overall and took 3rd out of 6. Felt good for my first time playing this live. The other decks I did not play against were Burn and Vengevine Dredge. I'm not sure how to fight the vine at the moment, I don't know the deck very well. One of the guys who was not there apparently also plays 8Rack, and with such a small player base I assume I'll be playing him next time he shows up.
Apart from crumble I really don't know what to do against Eldrazi; Reality Smasher is tough to beat when he has other things to sacrifice.
excuse my newbness, but why the fetches if mono-black?
Revolt trigger. With Urborg they'll tap for black until you need to crack it (if ever).
Also, why just 3 The Rack? One more is almost mandatory.
Not going to list all the millions of changes I did in the last 7 hours... But Since there was an update:
Tiers updated... ALOT
Some of you may have noticed the tiering updating has lagged behind alot recently. Our data collection manager (ktken) is retiring from staff, so collection has been pretty hard for us. We are changing our systems completly, and over the next month I'll be rolling out the new benchmarks we use to tiering and testing them over the next half a year or so.
So just bare with us for a month, and everything will be clear and tip top shape.
everyone says this. ive been running 4 gq 4 mutavault main and i feel its correct.
Did you play many matches? How often do you get color screwed?
I play 5 or 6 colorless sources in my main deck. I am playing against B/G infect. We are on game 3 and he is holding 4 cards in hand and is low on life and I have 2 racks out and a GQ, swamp and mutavault on the playing field. They were all in my starting hand and I hadn't seen a land drop Ive killed a bunch of infect creatures at this point we have both been in top deck mode off and on for a few turns. My opponent plays the 2/2 black infect creature. I am holding a smallpox and praying for a black source to play it on my next top deck. I miss and draw inquisition and use it and see a pump,pump and a land I think it was blossoming defence. Anyways he swings next turn then pumps for 10 infect and bango I'm dead. I must have been tired because I clearly made some serious mistakes in this situation. I should have GQed my mutavault for 2nd black source and won on the back of that small pox. So just a reminder get very familiar with your deck if your going to play GQs and remember they can be used on yourself!
I had a very similar experience last week at a GPT. The only difference was that I had two Mutavault and no GQ... =(
20 cards into the deck and only one swamp, that's magic for you.
@aleixarboix
I've added two Ensnaring Bridge and a Damnation to my sideboard for decks that go wide such as Eldrazi and fish. Unfortunately I have yet to play vs any eldratron.
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven’s Crime
4 Smallpox
2 Wrench Mind
2 Collective Brutality
1 Funeral Charm
3 Fatal Push
2 dismember
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dakmor Salvage
3 Mutavault
2 Ghost Quarter
1 verdant catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 marsh flats
1 polluted delta
9 Swamp
2 lost legacy
2 Gurmag Angler
2 pack rat
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damnation
Esperino, I wanted to respond to your invitation for a clean list for the primer.
I attended a SCG Invitational Qualifier in Minneapolis yesterday and specifically brought a list I thought would be a good candidate for the primer. It's a mono-black smallpox list. It was a six round event, started 4-0 only dropping a game, then drew into the top8. Won my first round but then lost in the semi-finals to a deck I beat earlier in the day. We chopped the money at top4 so there wasn't a lot at stake.
This deck can beat almost any deck in the format and continues to be in an excellent spot.
The list ran four wrench mind in place of collective brutality. I still very much like brutality and may run it in vegas, but for now, I'm willing to concede it is a meta call and much more difficult to play properly than wrench mind. Of the 40 players at this event, we had 15 burn players. Wrench mind can hold it's own against burn. CB is probably not something we want new rack players experimenting with until they feel comfortable.
The sideboard is another discussion and also very much meta dependant.
In my view, the start of 8-rack matches revolve around making your opponent pay dearly for keeps and decisions that are normally excellent. Have you ever played a match, looked at your first seven and thought "This hand is awesome, perfect curve!" Then your opponent casts a turn 1 thoughtseize and you ask yourself why you kept it in the first place.
Smallpox is this same feeling but much, much worse. Most opponents can't recover from losing the land, a card, and any creature they may have dumped. It's even harder after you resolve a turn 1 inquisition or thoughtseize.
It does occasionally get side boarded out though.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Last updated 4/2/17. That's a month and a half ago. If I remember correctly this primer became T2 about two weeks ago?
Because currently I already have Night Souls' betrayal, flaying tendrils, and 2 ensnaring bridges. I have one spot open and was thinking of adding damnation for bigger creatures like eldrazi; however with all these expensive cmc cards, idk if it would be redundant to add a damnation or just more efficient to take out night souls for a damnation
I think Night of Souls' Betrayal really shines against decks like Affinity; almost everything they play is a 1/1 and it kills their lands if they animate them. They have a couple ways around it, but you can manually take care of those. For the most part a situation like that will stop them almost completely in their tracks.
If I were you, I'd probably just add another bridge to make it 3. That should stop big Eldrazi enough to not really worry.
On a separate note:
What's the difference between having Bobs vs Asylum Visitors? Don't Visitors benefit our deck more given that we're likely drawing an extra card each turn (opposed to just our own) and it acts decently with Smallpox and Liliana?
Additionally I am suddenly aware that I might have to play the mirror soon. Any ideas? I'm already eyeing Visitor, maybe Bloodchief Ascension because it costs 1, but Gibbering Descent basically wins G2 and probably G3 outright if it hits the field. There's also the unhappy punch to the wallet from Bloodghast and they might be more sideboard relevant against not the mirror as well.
I also went to a small Modern night last night, here's my piece:
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells
4 Raven's Crime
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Wrench Mind
4 Smallpox
2 Funeral Charm
2 Fatal Push
2 Dismember
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mutavault
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blood Crypt
3 Swamp
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Crumble to Dust
3 Drown in Sorrow
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Leyline of the Void
I wish the drowns were Flaying Tendrils, I know and I agree.
R1 vs UR Storm.
He made a mistake in comboing G1 and died the next turn. G2, I brought 4 Surgicals and removed his only 2 win conditions (Grapeshot) and just let 8Rack do the rest. 2-0 win
R2 vs Eldrazi Tron.
Gross.
G1: He dropped an Endbringer which almost entirely counters 8Rack and just proceeded to win with minimal effort. I was also holding 3 lands in my hand with 4 in play, so I was pretty flooded.
G2: I bring in the obvious Crumbles but don't draw one. I don't think it made a huge difference because he never assembled tron, just dropped enough medium sized dudes to beat me.
0-2 loss
R3 vs Affinity.
G1: Quick out the gate, drained his hand really fast, but I kept a hand of 3 Racks because I knew what he was playing. I didn't really do anything else, he just couldn't keep up. Felt like a cheap win.
G2: He starts with Leyline of Sanctity and I'm looking at 2 Thoughtseize an Affliction, 2 land, a pox, and Funeral Charm. Thankfully, none of our damage dealers target so I was still sort of in business. That one pox did a ton of work, I also managed to top a decent chunk of my removal. Kolaghan's Command was worth every play being a massive 2 for 1 at every turn. He played a good many things, but could not keep a board big enough to out pace my 3 damage every turn. 2-0
I went 2-1 overall and took 3rd out of 6. Felt good for my first time playing this live. The other decks I did not play against were Burn and Vengevine Dredge. I'm not sure how to fight the vine at the moment, I don't know the deck very well. One of the guys who was not there apparently also plays 8Rack, and with such a small player base I assume I'll be playing him next time he shows up.
Apart from crumble I really don't know what to do against Eldrazi; Reality Smasher is tough to beat when he has other things to sacrifice.
"Reveal a Dragon"