Can somebody collect everything positive about Pack Rat in one post for me please? Why you (or other people) think it's good, the situations he's good in, his "value", everything. Why would you want to play that card, things like that. I want to change my opinion of it so please, every Pack Rat lover out there, chime in and let me know why it's so great!
flaying tendrils incorrect? it solves a lot of big cards against the deck: voice of resurgence, kitchen finks, lingering souls, etc
not playing 4 thoughtseize its not an error, your conclusion comes from being on the play. while the conclusion to not playing 4 comes from being on the draw
saying that being on the draw its a mistake its also wrong, i played countless games against the fast decks trying to prove that statment wrong, and found that except affinity i had a higher win% against everything else by being on the draw. the most shocking thing was that burn became a lot easyer, they run out of cards so fast by following their gameplan that they either outrace themselves or just dont cast spells and lose to our "value" cards like wrench mind, lili, etc. the collected brutality out of the sideboard its also gamebreking
this is more of an anecdotal evidence but in half the matches that i played in day 2 at gp bologna my oponents puted me on the play in sideboard games, agaisnt 2 of them i lost the dice roll so they didnt even know that i wanted to be on the draw
i can see why people discard being on the draw after the first impresion because some things they learned doesnt apply anymore (thoughtseize gets worse for example) but in change the 8 racks get better. by being on the draw they have 1 card less and you have one card more wich translates in them having 2 cards less, but they are also a full turn ahead of you wich also translates in 2 cards less (landrop + spell), thats why target discard gets worse (they have fewer cards in hand and can miss), removal becomes more necessay, and the racks go online faster and its a race that the deck its very well equiped to win (painless mana + muta helps to)
No I cannot agree to all of this. Being on the draw vs today's burn is not the way to go. A turn 1 goblin guide or swiftspear ends the game for 8Rack. Same with Glistner elf. Now if it was 2 years ago and burn lists were actually burn and not Red (naya) Deck Wins then your statement makes more sense.
Going 2nd is a tool in your tool box to be used surgically. It's not the default way to play the deck. Tom Ross does it and that impresses you, I get it. Tom Ross is just an 8Rack player. He plays he ways because it gives him consistent results that he can live with. That does not mean it's the best way to play, it just means his way of playing is good enough for him. There is no hidden tech or secret that only he knows. It took him 2 years to come to the conclusion that the 8Rack core that we have been using since day 1 is nigh immutable. 2 years guys. Now I completely respect that he is the type of guy who must figure things out for himself, but are you guys gonna wait another 2 years for him to figure out its not smart to always go on the draw before you realize it too?
As my final point on Tom Ross' strats / secret tech I submit the following for your consideration:
He made it to day 2 with that card mainboard. What does that tell you about him and what does that tell you about the power of the 8rack?
the burn list i played against didnt have nacatls, so i can see that having a big impact on the results.
but i dont agree that it took tom ross 2 years to be on what we are now, his lists remain almost unchanged, as far as i can tell the maindecks are 58/60 carbon copies
the only change being -1 wrench mind +1 raven's crime and tinkering and discarding dakmor salvage and blinkmoth nexus
in this 2 articles you can find the 3 lists that he played and check it yourself
i agree that there is no secret tech or something like that, i never said that. what i said is that if you actualy test to be on the draw without any kind of prejudice you will find that some things change in value
-target discard gets worse
-removal is more necessary
-racks go online way faster, even if you use mana interacting with the board and not the hand
i also think that if you wnat to play 8rack on a week to week basis the linear version gets worse and you need a biger plan b than 4 mutavaults, while if you only bring it without anybody expecting it then the linear list its at its best
Can somebody collect everything positive about Pack Rat in one post for me please? Why you (or other people) think it's good, the situations he's good in, his "value", everything. Why would you want to play that card, things like that. I want to change my opinion of it so please, every Pack Rat lover out there, chime in and let me know why it's so great!
Mmm ok. Pack rat is much like a plan B. It can single handedly win games by its own. It's also quite resilient.
Just a few examples. You inquisition and you see 1 removal. Take away removal. by turn 2 play pack rat. Turn 3 play your 3rd land, Pass the turn. If he draws a spot removal doesn't matter, you can make token already. End of his turn make a pack rat. Let's say he doesn't have a removal, by his end turn you have 2 rats. On your turn 4 You can have 3 rats, if you have 4 lands including a mutavault you have 3 rats which can be 4/4. Repeat and if everything goes well the opponent can't deal with the pack rat problem you win.
Against a hand full of removals, just play as per normal. When they have no more removals, sometimes they assume you play no creatures they throw away their spot removals from wrench minds. Play pack rat, pass the turn, if they still don have removals that's great, assuming you have racks and shrieking in range maybe he have 0-1 cards, You can just Attack Hand.. win the way 8rack does. Let's say he manage to draw more cards for whatever reason maybe ancestral visions or sphinx, or you didn't draw hand removals. You can continue to build your rat army if you feel the rack won't get in range.. play plan b.
For situations where you play pack rat behind the bridge. You can build your rat army, lily can continue to +1. If opponent draws a removal against bridge, your rat army is a backup.
Can somebody collect everything positive about Pack Rat in one post for me please? Why you (or other people) think it's good, the situations he's good in, his "value", everything. Why would you want to play that card, things like that. I want to change my opinion of it so please, every Pack Rat lover out there, chime in and let me know why it's so great!
Mmm ok. Pack rat is much like a plan B. It can single handedly win games by its own. It's also quite resilient.
Just a few examples. You inquisition and you see 1 removal. Take away removal. by turn 2 play pack rat. Turn 3 play your 3rd land, Pass the turn. If he draws a spot removal doesn't matter, you can make token already. End of his turn make a pack rat. Let's say he doesn't have a removal, by his end turn you have 2 rats. On your turn 4 You can have 3 rats, if you have 4 lands including a mutavault you have 3 rats which can be 4/4. Repeat and if everything goes well the opponent can't deal with the pack rat problem you win.
Against a hand full of removals, just play as per normal. When they have no more removals, sometimes they assume you play no creatures they throw away their spot removals from wrench minds. Play pack rat, pass the turn, if they still don have removals that's great, assuming you have racks and shrieking in range maybe he have 0-1 cards, You can just Attack Hand.. win the way 8rack does. Let's say he manage to draw more cards for whatever reason maybe ancestral visions or sphinx, or you didn't draw hand removals. You can continue to build your rat army if you feel the rack won't get in range.. play plan b.
For situations where you play pack rat behind the bridge. You can build your rat army, lily can continue to +1. If opponent draws a removal against bridge, your rat army is a backup.
I strongly concur, rat is a solid plan b which is synergistic with our manland of choice and is largely resilient to removal, especially when you have lead off with targeted discard to let you know if it's safe to play him.
Played early he has the potential to grow into a rat pack that can quickly end the game, dropped mid to late game he can take over by generating value off otherwise dead cards. And just because he is on the field does not mean you are committed to pumping him every turn. If at any point you feal it necisary to discard more, play your lili, or remove something you can just not make a rat for a turn. He is adept in both attack and defense, gets buffed by mutavault, and is resilient to targeted removal, a solid plan b that greatly increases the decks flexability while not seriously hindering our ability to execute plan a if we feal that's the more prudent rout.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
Hey 8Rack folk! I created a Discord server for the community. You can use it as a messenger or hop in voice chat channels to interact with other members of the 8Rack community! The discussion is not limited to 8Rack of course, but it is a dedicated place where users who are interested in the strategy can talk to each other with the push of a button, it's as simple as that.
Why did I setup this server? To put it really simply, voice communication is so much more powerful than written text. Writing opinions on forums only goes so far to convey what you mean, but often times talking to people you will realise they are a lot more understanding than you'd give them credit. It's a great way for people who share an interest to bond and develop friendly relationships where they normally wouldn't. I hope we can keep the discussion civil and that everybody is treated with respect.
You can join through this link (should work, please let me know if it doesn't).
Please not that you will need a Discord account with a verified e-mail to join.
Personally, I don't think this falls under "promotion of content" for several reasons - first, it's technically not "content". Second, I'm trying to develop the 8Rack community to make it more cohesive and reduce toxicity. I am not advertising Discord (a third-party software) and not in any way associated with them, simply using it as a means to an end. If you think this post violates the Terms of Service and the Forum Rules, please let me know and I will take it down immediately. It's definitely not promotion of illegal activity and the intent is not to be any attempt of solicitation. Apologies if it breaks the rules in any way.
Hey 8Rack folk! I created a Discord server for the community. You can use it as a messenger or hop in voice chat channels to interact with other members of the 8Rack community! The discussion is not limited to 8Rack of course, but it is a dedicated place where users who are interested in the strategy can talk to each other with the push of a button, it's as simple as that.
Wow, thanks, this is a fantastic idea and I'll be on tonight for sure!
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
flaying tendrils incorrect? it solves a lot of big cards against the deck: voice of resurgence, kitchen finks, lingering souls, etc
not playing 4 thoughtseize its not an error, your conclusion comes from being on the play. while the conclusion to not playing 4 comes from being on the draw
saying that being on the draw its a mistake its also wrong, i played countless games against the fast decks trying to prove that statment wrong, and found that except affinity i had a higher win% against everything else by being on the draw. the most shocking thing was that burn became a lot easyer, they run out of cards so fast by following their gameplan that they either outrace themselves or just dont cast spells and lose to our "value" cards like wrench mind, lili, etc. the collected brutality out of the sideboard its also gamebreking
this is more of an anecdotal evidence but in half the matches that i played in day 2 at gp bologna my oponents puted me on the play in sideboard games, agaisnt 2 of them i lost the dice roll so they didnt even know that i wanted to be on the draw
i can see why people discard being on the draw after the first impresion because some things they learned doesnt apply anymore (thoughtseize gets worse for example) but in change the 8 racks get better. by being on the draw they have 1 card less and you have one card more wich translates in them having 2 cards less, but they are also a full turn ahead of you wich also translates in 2 cards less (landrop + spell), thats why target discard gets worse (they have fewer cards in hand and can miss), removal becomes more necessay, and the racks go online faster and its a race that the deck its very well equiped to win (painless mana + muta helps to)
No I cannot agree to all of this. Being on the draw vs today's burn is not the way to go. A turn 1 goblin guide or swiftspear ends the game for 8Rack. Same with Glistner elf. Now if it was 2 years ago and burn lists were actually burn and not Red (naya) Deck Wins then your statement makes more sense.
Going 2nd is a tool in your tool box to be used surgically. It's not the default way to play the deck. Tom Ross does it and that impresses you, I get it. Tom Ross is just an 8Rack player. He plays he ways because it gives him consistent results that he can live with. That does not mean it's the best way to play, it just means his way of playing is good enough for him. There is no hidden tech or secret that only he knows. It took him 2 years to come to the conclusion that the 8Rack core that we have been using since day 1 is nigh immutable. 2 years guys. Now I completely respect that he is the type of guy who must figure things out for himself, but are you guys gonna wait another 2 years for him to figure out its not smart to always go on the draw before you realize it too?
As my final point on Tom Ross' strats / secret tech I submit the following for your consideration:
He made it to day 2 with that card mainboard. What does that tell you about him and what does that tell you about the power of the 8rack?
the burn list i played against didnt have nacatls, so i can see that having a big impact on the results.
but i dont agree that it took tom ross 2 years to be on what we are now, his lists remain almost unchanged, as far as i can tell the maindecks are 58/60 carbon copies
the only change being -1 wrench mind +1 raven's crime and tinkering and discarding dakmor salvage and blinkmoth nexus
in this 2 articles you can find the 3 lists that he played and check it yourself
i agree that there is no secret tech or something like that, i never said that. what i said is that if you actualy test to be on the draw without any kind of prejudice you will find that some things change in value
-target discard gets worse
-removal is more necessary
-racks go online way faster, even if you use mana interacting with the board and not the hand
i also think that if you wnat to play 8rack on a week to week basis the linear version gets worse and you need a biger plan b than 4 mutavaults, while if you only bring it without anybody expecting it then the linear list its at its best
Ok 1 year then. The article in 2015 was 1 year after he publicly started playing 8rack. Point is, he playing the core now and he used to play with Scepter of Fugue list. IMO it took him a long time to get to the stock list that has been posted for what...5years now? Again I respect people that want to test thing and prove them for themselves, but that doesn't mean that you guys should take a giant step backwards before moving forwards.
That said, I really agree with your final point about 8Rack week to week vs a 1 shot deal. I mentioned that a while back in my stream, but I probably should have emphasized it. Superlinear is great as a surprise, but much harder to sustain. Now that you mention it, I need to make sure to adress that in the primer video.
On the primer video, I have most of it completed in different sections. I want to put it all together and make it purdy before upload.
It's a pretty good deck and a solid performance. I don't know if I should add it to the Primer or not though, it is slightly old. Then again, Modern hasn't had any changes since that time. Maybe I should? What do you guys think?
It's a pretty good deck and a solid performance. I don't know if I should add it to the Primer or not though, it is slightly old. Then again, Modern hasn't had any changes since that time. Maybe I should? What do you guys think?
flaying tendrils incorrect? it solves a lot of big cards against the deck: voice of resurgence, kitchen finks, lingering souls, etc
not playing 4 thoughtseize its not an error, your conclusion comes from being on the play. while the conclusion to not playing 4 comes from being on the draw
saying that being on the draw its a mistake its also wrong, i played countless games against the fast decks trying to prove that statment wrong, and found that except affinity i had a higher win% against everything else by being on the draw. the most shocking thing was that burn became a lot easyer, they run out of cards so fast by following their gameplan that they either outrace themselves or just dont cast spells and lose to our "value" cards like wrench mind, lili, etc. the collected brutality out of the sideboard its also gamebreking
this is more of an anecdotal evidence but in half the matches that i played in day 2 at gp bologna my oponents puted me on the play in sideboard games, agaisnt 2 of them i lost the dice roll so they didnt even know that i wanted to be on the draw
i can see why people discard being on the draw after the first impresion because some things they learned doesnt apply anymore (thoughtseize gets worse for example) but in change the 8 racks get better. by being on the draw they have 1 card less and you have one card more wich translates in them having 2 cards less, but they are also a full turn ahead of you wich also translates in 2 cards less (landrop + spell), thats why target discard gets worse (they have fewer cards in hand and can miss), removal becomes more necessay, and the racks go online faster and its a race that the deck its very well equiped to win (painless mana + muta helps to)
No I cannot agree to all of this. Being on the draw vs today's burn is not the way to go. A turn 1 goblin guide or swiftspear ends the game for 8Rack. Same with Glistner elf. Now if it was 2 years ago and burn lists were actually burn and not Red (naya) Deck Wins then your statement makes more sense.
Going 2nd is a tool in your tool box to be used surgically. It's not the default way to play the deck. Tom Ross does it and that impresses you, I get it. Tom Ross is just an 8Rack player. He plays he ways because it gives him consistent results that he can live with. That does not mean it's the best way to play, it just means his way of playing is good enough for him. There is no hidden tech or secret that only he knows. It took him 2 years to come to the conclusion that the 8Rack core that we have been using since day 1 is nigh immutable. 2 years guys. Now I completely respect that he is the type of guy who must figure things out for himself, but are you guys gonna wait another 2 years for him to figure out its not smart to always go on the draw before you realize it too?
As my final point on Tom Ross' strats / secret tech I submit the following for your consideration:
He made it to day 2 with that card mainboard. What does that tell you about him and what does that tell you about the power of the 8rack?
the burn list i played against didnt have nacatls, so i can see that having a big impact on the results.
but i dont agree that it took tom ross 2 years to be on what we are now, his lists remain almost unchanged, as far as i can tell the maindecks are 58/60 carbon copies
the only change being -1 wrench mind +1 raven's crime and tinkering and discarding dakmor salvage and blinkmoth nexus
in this 2 articles you can find the 3 lists that he played and check it yourself
i agree that there is no secret tech or something like that, i never said that. what i said is that if you actualy test to be on the draw without any kind of prejudice you will find that some things change in value
-target discard gets worse
-removal is more necessary
-racks go online way faster, even if you use mana interacting with the board and not the hand
i also think that if you wnat to play 8rack on a week to week basis the linear version gets worse and you need a biger plan b than 4 mutavaults, while if you only bring it without anybody expecting it then the linear list its at its best
Ok 1 year then. The article in 2015 was 1 year after he publicly started playing 8rack. Point is, he playing the core now and he used to play with Scepter of Fugue list. IMO it took him a long time to get to the stock list that has been posted for what...5years now? Again I respect people that want to test thing and prove them for themselves, but that doesn't mean that you guys should take a giant step backwards before moving forwards.
That said, I really agree with your final point about 8Rack week to week vs a 1 shot deal. I mentioned that a while back in my stream, but I probably should have emphasized it. Superlinear is great as a surprise, but much harder to sustain. Now that you mention it, I need to make sure to adress that in the primer video.
On the primer video, I have most of it completed in different sections. I want to put it all together and make it purdy before upload.
Why do you think he played Scepter of Fugue? I couldnt find a connection between this card and Tom Ross
It's stock which is very close to what I run, which is very close to what Rob runs (mono ). It has the mathmatically best "'always' Turn 2" with 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, 3 Mutavault and 1 Dakmor Salvage. I run 4/4/2 which does rarely give me issues. And I drop 1 rat for a 5th removal and my removal is 3 Victim of Night 1 Slaughter Pact 1 Bile Blight and like we've stated before there is no best removal suit; it's meta dependent like Sideboards. I could easily drop 1 VoN for 1 Dismember MB and still feel good.
Might run Bw Myth Rack at tomorrow's FNM if I can find 2 more Concealed Courtyard or be lazy and run my Tribal Zooicide deck, which is ready to go.
Hey 8Rack folk! I created a Discord server for the community. You can use it as a messenger or hop in voice chat channels to interact with other members of the 8Rack community! The discussion is not limited to 8Rack of course, but it is a dedicated place where users who are interested in the strategy can talk to each other with the push of a button, it's as simple as that.
Why did I setup this server? To put it really simply, voice communication is so much more powerful than written text. Writing opinions on forums only goes so far to convey what you mean, but often times talking to people you will realise they are a lot more understanding than you'd give them credit. It's a great way for people who share an interest to bond and develop friendly relationships where they normally wouldn't. I hope we can keep the discussion civil and that everybody is treated with respect.
You can join through this link (should work, please let me know if it doesn't).
Please not that you will need a Discord account with a verified e-mail to join.
Personally, I don't think this falls under "promotion of content" for several reasons - first, it's technically not "content". Second, I'm trying to develop the 8Rack community to make it more cohesive and reduce toxicity. I am not advertising Discord (a third-party software) and not in any way associated with them, simply using it as a means to an end. If you think this post violates the Terms of Service and the Forum Rules, please let me know and I will take it down immediately. It's definitely not promotion of illegal activity and the intent is not to be any attempt of solicitation. Apologies if it breaks the rules in any way.
I think its great that's you're open to listen to opinions on other cards; that's certainly going to be great for your growth as a player, but I just want to say that this wasn't the point of the criticism earlier.
We're not critical of your perspective of Pack Rat or any other card. Heck no, you're allowed to strongly dislike, or even hate certain cards. That's perfectly fine. The Discord discussion may result in you changing your mind, it might not. But it doesn't change what we *are* critical about- the primer.
The primer contains your perspective, which as you have pointed out, is unavoidable. But it has to be made as neutral as you possibly can, based on facts. When the primer describes smallpox it has to describe it as a proven card, not as a bad card. Because its proven in *fact* but its bad in *perspective*. You can have a chapter called "Author's Opinions" where you use your theory to hammer down on cards you dislike. But statements putting down time-proven cards should not be in the primer.
So one last time for emphasis:
1. Nobody is upset that you personally dislike smallpox / pat rack.
2. Nobody is committed to make you change your perspective.
3. Nobody is even saying you can't express said dislikes.
But we just want the primer to not be a personal opinion.
Yes, this mantle you've taken up is heavy. Its a lot of work, the formatting and the updating. One of the perks is that you have the exposure to bring up experiments brews more than the average poster. The exposure is also a responsibility: new players, new-ish players will come here looking to emulate successful decks - they will receive information that conflicts with reality. They will see smallpoxes in top8s, they will see it listed as a bad card here. That's an issue that's far removed from whether the author of a primer thinks a card is bad or not.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I've gotten great results from Death's Shadow at my FNM's/Tuesday Night Modern events at my local shop.
Thoughtseize, shock/fetch lands, and dismember all work well to make shadow a significant threat in a hurry.
Last tuesday I tried it in the main board and it was the mvp against blue delver, grixis delver, and blue moon.I will be trying it again at tomorrow's FNM with hopefully similar results.
I will be bringing my R/B list to GP Dallas next weekend. Hopefully I'll have good results to share.
I really like how many different options we have in 8Rack these days. I think my primer video will go a long way into helping folks get a handle on ALL of them. The whole idea is a Core + Snap-In formula that just works very well.
It's stock which is very close to what I run, which is very close to what Rob runs (mono ). It has the mathmatically best "'always' Turn 2" with 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, 3 Mutavault and 1 Dakmor Salvage. I run 4/4/2 which does rarely give me issues. And I drop 1 rat for a 5th removal and my removal is 3 Victim of Night 1 Slaughter Pact 1 Bile Blight and like we've stated before there is no best removal suit; it's meta dependent like Sideboards. I could easily drop 1 VoN for 1 Dismember MB and still feel good.
Might run Bw Myth Rack at tomorrow's FNM if I can find 2 more Concealed Courtyard or be lazy and run my Tribal Zooicide deck, which is ready to go.
I'm genuinely surprised that you just suggested subtracting a WM for a spox. I thought the core was "immutable".
If you think about it its a lateral move. Both cards fill the 2 for 1 slot. Same casting cost. They are somewhat interchangeable and it's just 1 copy anyways. I'm willing to make some lateral compromises to accommodate a list with MAX redundancy AND a plan b...
Oh I agree with you. It's a good call. I think I was talking about a similar lateral compromise once upon a time when I was making an argument for smallpox. But I don't know what I'm talking about, I haven't mastered the strategy yet
the burn list i played against didnt have nacatls, so i can see that having a big impact on the results.
but i dont agree that it took tom ross 2 years to be on what we are now, his lists remain almost unchanged, as far as i can tell the maindecks are 58/60 carbon copies
the only change being -1 wrench mind +1 raven's crime and tinkering and discarding dakmor salvage and blinkmoth nexus
in this 2 articles you can find the 3 lists that he played and check it yourself
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33726_Paint-It-Black-The-Complete-Guide-To-8-Rack.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31178_8-Rack-In-Modern.html
and the iq winfor those asking http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=87623
i agree that there is no secret tech or something like that, i never said that. what i said is that if you actualy test to be on the draw without any kind of prejudice you will find that some things change in value
-target discard gets worse
-removal is more necessary
-racks go online way faster, even if you use mana interacting with the board and not the hand
i also think that if you wnat to play 8rack on a week to week basis the linear version gets worse and you need a biger plan b than 4 mutavaults, while if you only bring it without anybody expecting it then the linear list its at its best
Mmm ok. Pack rat is much like a plan B. It can single handedly win games by its own. It's also quite resilient.
Just a few examples. You inquisition and you see 1 removal. Take away removal. by turn 2 play pack rat. Turn 3 play your 3rd land, Pass the turn. If he draws a spot removal doesn't matter, you can make token already. End of his turn make a pack rat. Let's say he doesn't have a removal, by his end turn you have 2 rats. On your turn 4 You can have 3 rats, if you have 4 lands including a mutavault you have 3 rats which can be 4/4. Repeat and if everything goes well the opponent can't deal with the pack rat problem you win.
Against a hand full of removals, just play as per normal. When they have no more removals, sometimes they assume you play no creatures they throw away their spot removals from wrench minds. Play pack rat, pass the turn, if they still don have removals that's great, assuming you have racks and shrieking in range maybe he have 0-1 cards, You can just Attack Hand.. win the way 8rack does. Let's say he manage to draw more cards for whatever reason maybe ancestral visions or sphinx, or you didn't draw hand removals. You can continue to build your rat army if you feel the rack won't get in range.. play plan b.
For situations where you play pack rat behind the bridge. You can build your rat army, lily can continue to +1. If opponent draws a removal against bridge, your rat army is a backup.
I strongly concur, rat is a solid plan b which is synergistic with our manland of choice and is largely resilient to removal, especially when you have lead off with targeted discard to let you know if it's safe to play him.
Played early he has the potential to grow into a rat pack that can quickly end the game, dropped mid to late game he can take over by generating value off otherwise dead cards. And just because he is on the field does not mean you are committed to pumping him every turn. If at any point you feal it necisary to discard more, play your lili, or remove something you can just not make a rat for a turn. He is adept in both attack and defense, gets buffed by mutavault, and is resilient to targeted removal, a solid plan b that greatly increases the decks flexability while not seriously hindering our ability to execute plan a if we feal that's the more prudent rout.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Why did I setup this server? To put it really simply, voice communication is so much more powerful than written text. Writing opinions on forums only goes so far to convey what you mean, but often times talking to people you will realise they are a lot more understanding than you'd give them credit. It's a great way for people who share an interest to bond and develop friendly relationships where they normally wouldn't. I hope we can keep the discussion civil and that everybody is treated with respect.
You can join through this link (should work, please let me know if it doesn't).
Please not that you will need a Discord account with a verified e-mail to join.
Wow, thanks, this is a fantastic idea and I'll be on tonight for sure!
Ok 1 year then. The article in 2015 was 1 year after he publicly started playing 8rack. Point is, he playing the core now and he used to play with Scepter of Fugue list. IMO it took him a long time to get to the stock list that has been posted for what...5years now? Again I respect people that want to test thing and prove them for themselves, but that doesn't mean that you guys should take a giant step backwards before moving forwards.
That said, I really agree with your final point about 8Rack week to week vs a 1 shot deal. I mentioned that a while back in my stream, but I probably should have emphasized it. Superlinear is great as a surprise, but much harder to sustain. Now that you mention it, I need to make sure to adress that in the primer video.
On the primer video, I have most of it completed in different sections. I want to put it all together and make it purdy before upload.
Check this out guys. A verbatim monoblack stock list takes 3rd out of 38!
It's a pretty good deck and a solid performance. I don't know if I should add it to the Primer or not though, it is slightly old. Then again, Modern hasn't had any changes since that time. Maybe I should? What do you guys think?
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Might run Bw Myth Rack at tomorrow's FNM if I can find 2 more Concealed Courtyard or be lazy and run my Tribal Zooicide deck, which is ready to go.
My landbase would look like:
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Mutavault
4 Polluted Delta
4 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Path to Exile
2 Anguished Unmaking
1 Dismember
Or drop the dismember for 4th MR. IDK.
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
I think its great that's you're open to listen to opinions on other cards; that's certainly going to be great for your growth as a player, but I just want to say that this wasn't the point of the criticism earlier.
We're not critical of your perspective of Pack Rat or any other card. Heck no, you're allowed to strongly dislike, or even hate certain cards. That's perfectly fine. The Discord discussion may result in you changing your mind, it might not. But it doesn't change what we *are* critical about- the primer.
The primer contains your perspective, which as you have pointed out, is unavoidable. But it has to be made as neutral as you possibly can, based on facts. When the primer describes smallpox it has to describe it as a proven card, not as a bad card. Because its proven in *fact* but its bad in *perspective*. You can have a chapter called "Author's Opinions" where you use your theory to hammer down on cards you dislike. But statements putting down time-proven cards should not be in the primer.
So one last time for emphasis:
1. Nobody is upset that you personally dislike smallpox / pat rack.
2. Nobody is committed to make you change your perspective.
3. Nobody is even saying you can't express said dislikes.
But we just want the primer to not be a personal opinion.
Yes, this mantle you've taken up is heavy. Its a lot of work, the formatting and the updating. One of the perks is that you have the exposure to bring up experiments brews more than the average poster. The exposure is also a responsibility: new players, new-ish players will come here looking to emulate successful decks - they will receive information that conflicts with reality. They will see smallpoxes in top8s, they will see it listed as a bad card here. That's an issue that's far removed from whether the author of a primer thinks a card is bad or not.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Thoughtseize, shock/fetch lands, and dismember all work well to make shadow a significant threat in a hurry.
Last tuesday I tried it in the main board and it was the mvp against blue delver, grixis delver, and blue moon.I will be trying it again at tomorrow's FNM with hopefully similar results.
I will be bringing my R/B list to GP Dallas next weekend. Hopefully I'll have good results to share.
Core -1 WM, +4 Myth, +3 Pox, removal package = full dismembers.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
If you think about it its a lateral move. Both cards fill the 2 for 1 slot. Same casting cost. They are somewhat interchangeable and it's just 1 copy anyways. I'm willing to make some lateral compromises to accommodate a list with MAX redundancy AND a plan b...
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)