Loads of things. Besides brews there is quite a few T1/T2 decks that use bigger creatures.
Eldrazis
Tasigur
Gurmag
Shadow
Titan
Baloth
Goyf
Big Flayer
Knight of the Relinqary
Master of Eterium
Merfolk with two lords
Slivers with two lords
Elves with two lords
Humans with counters
There sure is exceptions here. Flaying is betters vs dredge and Vizier combo. Maybe some more matchups, but I think the list shows quite a few regularly played creatures that BLR hit thaat Flaying don't.
Most of these arent swarm tactics. Its convenientthat Bontu hits almost anything but Flaying Tendrils can be argued as a better Racks card as it exiles and doesnt cost you a turn
First off, I would like to say that this is an excellent report here, very insightful and very well put!
Secondly, I noticed you said you were replacing the Funeral Charm for the 2nd CB, was there a reason you up'd your count of Wrench Minds to 4 instead of the CB to 2? How did Ghost Quarter feel in the MB, very interesting tech but can be effective! Also, the 2nd Dismember, many have told me that 2x Dismember can be an issue with taking damage for removal; however, what was your experience with the 2nd copy.
The deck looks very good in my opinion and one that I'd like to try out myself and see. My local meta here runs a few 8-Racks and a few of the typical builds like Death Shadow's, etc, etc. Any changes you'd recommend if focusing around that?
I upped the Wrench Mind count because I've always felt it was a strong card and think that it's a stronger card, for the strategy we're trying to employ, than Collective Brutality. Getting 2 cards out of the opponent's hand is great. Getting only 1, if they pitch an artifact, stinks, sure, but, in my meta at least, that doesn't come up too often. Also, comparing the CB mode of taking an instant or sorcery for 2 mana over 2 cards or 1 artifact on the Wrench, I think makes Wrench stronger, from the discard perspective. CB also tends to be more heavily represented in sideboards, across deck builds, because of its relative strength in certain matchups. The option of shocking the opponent or destroying a low toughness creature on CB makes it very versatile, but the majority of the time, taking 2 cards from hand has more impact. That's why I opted for the 4th Wrench, over a 2nd CB. I think that relative strength makes it a better 2nd copy sideboard card, while Wrench is a better 4th copy main deck, especially in game 1.
Ghost Quarter main board was fine. As a 1 of, I didn't see it too frequently, which is fine. When I did see it, I usually had an Urborg in play or could make use of it for a Revolt trigger. Part of the reason for dropping Mutavault down to 3 copies was so I could incorporate a GQ in the deck for the Tron matchups and additional Revolt trigger, if needed.
Dismember is a learning curve card, I think. I started with 2 copies in the deck and fiddled with 1 copy MB, 1 SB, as well as no copies in the deck. I've now come back to 2 copies MB because It's very useful against a number of decks. The shock from the Phyrexian mana is definitely a downside, but when utilized properly, it works out quite well. Greatest card ever? No. Good card to have in deck against many matchups? Yes. Push doesn't get everything and Dismember has definitely saved my backside. Against decks where it is a weak card and more damaging to me, it's a great pitch to Smallpox or Lili.
For running against Death's Shadow decks, Dismember is quite useful. Angler and Tasigur both can't be hit by Push because of their mana costs. But Push does huge work against Death's Shadow. I wouldn't make any changes to the deck I posted for that particular matchup. Against opposing 8 rack decks, hope for better top decks.
Hello people ! today I got the first place in the trial mkm series. 7-1 in global. in theory will be the list in tc decks. I only lost the first against ub faeries. I have managed to win titanshift burn uwr urkiki etc ...
highlight things on the deck.
23 more than enough land.
4 wrench mind
no pack rat. I am not convinced i is weak, is usually topdeck bad.
night of souls betrayal is bound to give you the match against affinyti infect and coco.
little more to say with the desire to go to the mkm of barcelona and to be able to play a good role. this deck will give us many joys! greetings 8 rack players and remember. always on the draw
I'm not sold on Night of Souls' Betrayal. I agree it's great against those decks, but the 2BB cost is too high for the deck, imo. I'm more than willing to here other's thoughts on this. I did play 1 of in the SB for some matches and was maybe able to cast it once, but, by that point, it was ineffective.
Game 1: Taking Turns, 2:0
I found out that matchup is not as easy at it seems. The cards Dictate of Kruphix and Howling Mine can be quite a problem when resolved. Also good thing to note is that if you surgical their Part the Waterveil they cannot win anymore and will eventually deck themselves out. (At least that was my opponent's only wincon) SB: +2 Collective Brutality, +2 Surgical Extraction, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Game 2: UR Delver, 2:1
Pretty close game, Delver and Young pyromancer going wide gave me some problems. I was lucky enough to usually smallpox the pyromancer before he could cast spells on turn 2-3 when he tapped out. Perhaps he should have waited and casted him later. Nevertheless it was tough. SB: +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Flaying Tendrils, -2 Funeral Charm (Since they got a lot of instants and draw phase discard might not always be that useful) Perhaps that was wrong, since Funeral Charm can also kill an unflipped delver and pyromancer and also snapcaster.. So going forward, i would probably leave out 1 Rack and a Raven's Crime maybe.
Game 3: UR Blue Moon Control, 2:1
His Blood Moon was a little problem game 1, since i had Mutavault and Urborg on the table. All 3 games i decided to play slow and take it easy, since that deck did not have a fast clock. So i would save up my lands in my hand and bombed his hand when i got a raven's crime in the GY. Also that i waited to play multiple spells per turn when i wanted to resolve a bomb such as Liliana to juke counterspells. Once a Liliana was resolved, it went pretty smooth. SB: +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Nihil Spellbomb, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Game 4: Merfolk, 2:1
Game one i got flooded by 4 lords pretty quick, so i lost. Next two games, i had everything pretty much under control with Bontu's last reckonings in hand both games. Worth noting that both game 1 and 2 he had Vial on turn 1. Smallpox was also great in this matchup regardless of the vial. Always when i had the chance, i took spreading seas and Silvergill adept from his hand. SB: -1 Wrench Mind, -1 Funeral Charm, +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Fatal Push
Game 5: GW Tron: 2:1
I think Tron is one of our harder matchups if not the hardest. Their cards such as: Sylvan Scrying, Ancient Stirrings, Chromatic Sphere, Chromatic Star, Expedition map, Relic of Progenitus all replace themselves in his hand. That makes the Tron player really hard to go hellbent. So even if he has a really bad hand, our clock is too slow and eventually they will reach tron, even if just by drawing, and Karn or Oblivion stone us. All 3 games were pretty long and ended in a topdeck war. Funeral charm is great for that since they don't run any instants and gives us practically a free turn once he gets hellbent, if that actually happens. I consider myself quite lucky to have won that game though. Even though he was stuck on 0-1 land the first game for about 5 turns, and i had 2 racks on the field, the game wasn't going nowhere because he always had a full hand. I was a bit unlucky with not having Raven's Crime in the GY though. Raven's Crime is a sick good card in this matchup i think. SB: +2 Asylum Visitor, +2 Surgical Extraction, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Since i didn't have any more useful sideboard cards in my deck like Fulminator mage, i couldn't leave out my Wrench minds. So i saved them in my hand and after an Inquisition or Thoughtseize cleared the way of artifacts, i fired Wrench Mind. It never hit an artifact so it was pretty good.
I really enjoyed the games and the deck felt really powerful. Also, in my meta i'm the only rack player and lots of players are not prepared against the deck and make misplays such as playing cards they wouldn't need to. I think its a good deck to bust it out now and then when the metagame is not prepared.
All the games, when i had the chance, i chose to be on the draw. The only exception here was against tron, since i wanted to snag his Expedition map if i could. I don't know if that was the right call. Probably not
I'm sure i could have sideboarded better in some matchups, so i am open to any comments, suggestions and critiques.
Game 1: Taking Turns, 2:0
I found out that matchup is not as easy at it seems. The cards Dictate of Kruphix and Howling Mine can be quite a problem when resolved. Also good thing to note is that if you surgical their Part the Waterveil they cannot win anymore and will eventually deck themselves out. (At least that was my opponent's only wincon) SB: +2 Collective Brutality, +2 Surgical Extraction, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Game 2: UR Delver, 2:1
Pretty close game, Delver and Young pyromancer going wide gave me some problems. I was lucky enough to usually smallpox the pyromancer before he could cast spells on turn 2-3 when he tapped out. Perhaps he should have waited and casted him later. Nevertheless it was tough. SB: +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Flaying Tendrils, -2 Funeral Charm (Since they got a lot of instants and draw phase discard might not always be that useful) Perhaps that was wrong, since Funeral Charm can also kill an unflipped delver and pyromancer and also snapcaster.. So going forward, i would probably leave out 1 Rack and a Raven's Crime maybe.
Game 3: UR Blue Moon Control, 2:1
His Blood Moon was a little problem game 1, since i had Mutavault and Urborg on the table. All 3 games i decided to play slow and take it easy, since that deck did not have a fast clock. So i would save up my lands in my hand and bombed his hand when i got a raven's crime in the GY. Also that i waited to play multiple spells per turn when i wanted to resolve a bomb such as Liliana to juke counterspells. Once a Liliana was resolved, it went pretty smooth. SB: +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Nihil Spellbomb, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Game 4: Merfolk, 2:1
Game one i got flooded by 4 lords pretty quick, so i lost. Next two games, i had everything pretty much under control with Bontu's last reckonings in hand both games. Worth noting that both game 1 and 2 he had Vial on turn 1. Smallpox was also great in this matchup regardless of the vial. Always when i had the chance, i took spreading seas and Silvergill adept from his hand. SB: -1 Wrench Mind, -1 Funeral Charm, +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Fatal Push
Game 5: GW Tron: 2:1
I think Tron is one of our harder matchups if not the hardest. Their cards such as: Sylvan Scrying, Ancient Stirrings, Chromatic Sphere, Chromatic Star, Expedition map, Relic of Progenitus all replace themselves in his hand. That makes the Tron player really hard to go hellbent. So even if he has a really bad hand, our clock is too slow and eventually they will reach tron, even if just by drawing, and Karn or Oblivion stone us. All 3 games were pretty long and ended in a topdeck war. Funeral charm is great for that since they don't run any instants and gives us practically a free turn once he gets hellbent, if that actually happens. I consider myself quite lucky to have won that game though. Even though he was stuck on 0-1 land the first game for about 5 turns, and i had 2 racks on the field, the game wasn't going nowhere because he always had a full hand. I was a bit unlucky with not having Raven's Crime in the GY though. Raven's Crime is a sick good card in this matchup i think. SB: +2 Asylum Visitor, +2 Surgical Extraction, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Since i didn't have any more useful sideboard cards in my deck like Fulminator mage, i couldn't leave out my Wrench minds. So i saved them in my hand and after an Inquisition or Thoughtseize cleared the way of artifacts, i fired Wrench Mind. It never hit an artifact so it was pretty good.
I really enjoyed the games and the deck felt really powerful. Also, in my meta i'm the only rack player and lots of players are not prepared against the deck and make misplays such as playing cards they wouldn't need to. I think its a good deck to bust it out now and then when the metagame is not prepared.
All the games, when i had the chance, i chose to be on the draw. The only exception here was against tron, since i wanted to snag his Expedition map if i could. I don't know if that was the right call. Probably not
I'm sure i could have sideboarded better in some matchups, so i am open to any comments, suggestions and critiques.
Thanks for reading!
Excellent Report here and congratulations on the 5-0! Always love seeing an 8-Rack deck doing success. I very much appreciate the sideboard tech and the gameplay explanation you gave per each match, very insightful. Also! Very excited to see positive review of Funeral Charm, I love the card personally and feel that it offers very good versatility especially in top deck situations. How did the 24 lands treat you? I've noticed and found that 23 is enough to run and sometimes see myself flooding with 24. Additionally, no Dismember in main and a Bontu's, how did that treat you? I know that it did work in the Merfolk match-up and surely you board in a minimum of 2 after the 1st game, but did you find it being a sitting duck against most match-ups in your hand? Dismember to me offers versatility even at the cost of a maximum of 4 life.
As for the Tron match-up, yes I agree, it is clearly our most difficult and worst match-up even compared to hyper-aggro builds. How do you figure sideboarding if you don't have Fulminator Mage's to fiddle around with? I run a 3 Delirium Skeins package in the board against decks like Tron, Chalice on 1, etc.
Excellent Report here and congratulations on the 5-0! Always love seeing an 8-Rack deck doing success. I very much appreciate the sideboard tech and the gameplay explanation you gave per each match, very insightful. Also! Very excited to see positive review of Funeral Charm, I love the card personally and feel that it offers very good versatility especially in top deck situations. How did the 24 lands treat you? I've noticed and found that 23 is enough to run and sometimes see myself flooding with 24. Additionally, no Dismember in main and a Bontu's, how did that treat you? I know that it did work in the Merfolk match-up and surely you board in a minimum of 2 after the 1st game, but did you find it being a sitting duck against most match-ups in your hand? Dismember to me offers versatility even at the cost of a maximum of 4 life.
As for the Tron match-up, yes I agree, it is clearly our most difficult and worst match-up even compared to hyper-aggro builds. How do you figure sideboarding if you don't have Fulminator Mage's to fiddle around with? I run a 3 Delirium Skeins package in the board against decks like Tron, Chalice on 1, etc.
Thanks man
Regarding the 24 lands, i trust in the Boss Tom Ross and since he played with 24 lands, i'm going with that too. I'm sure he did some research on that and went with the best build he thought was right, so i respect that and i trust him.
I feel like dismember is okay, but against massive creature decks like affinity, elves or anything that goes really wide, dismember is not enough. And i feel that Bontu's in mainboard can make those matchups game 1 better, since they are a bad matchup for us. I felt it was right, even though i didnt play my games against many swarmy creature decks. Against other decks a lot of times comes down to a race - can the racks finish the game faster than his creature(s) can. In that case, Bontu is also great, since it clears everything even if the opponent had the faster clock, while dismember could cost us life and only clear one creature. In that case, opponent's creatures are removed, yours racks aren't, and it gives us another turn or more for the rack effects to tick, pulling us ahead in the race. Its also really great against Lingering souls but so is Flaying Tendrils. But i just think that Bontu's got a better utility - Hits everything. I really love that card, and i might consider even playing 2 in the mainboard.
i'm playing this deck (Tom Ross top4 version) for a month now...in December i have a big event in Italy (300 players) and i'd like to play this deck.
Now, i have some questions : the meta here is full of
- Tron (G/x and Eldrazi)
- Merfolks
- Affinity
- Counters Company
- B/G/x midrange (Abzan, Jund)
TRON: played sometimes against eldrazi, i think quite bad matchup because once they topdeck any big creature, is almost GG. Not mentioning any chalice @1.
MERFOLK : never played against, but i think favurable
AFFINITY : strange matchup; without cranial plating it's quite favorable, but with cranial plating it's a disaster
COUNTERS COMPANY : never played agains
BG/x : favourable against bg and jund, harder vs abzan for lingering but at least 50-50
Now, what is tha game plan vs EldraTron? how you find the matchup? i'd like to change my sideboard and play something like :
1 Leyline of the Void
2 Nihil spellbomb
3 Bontu's last reckonig
1 Fatal push
3 Delirium Skeins
3 Ratchet bomb
1 Asylum Visitor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
what do you think? would you bring ratchet bombs against eldratron? i mean for caliche...don't know if it's worth!
thank you all
Tron (G/x and Eldrazi)
Rough match up without any land destruction in the deck. Depending on the build, push may be worthless. Delirium Skeins could do some late game work for you.
Merfolks
I've faced Merfolk quite a few times. It's well represented in my meta. Side in the 3 Bontu's and Fatal Push. You can side out your 4x Raven's Crime. Make sure to get their Master of Waves. Ratchet bomb can do some work against Aether Vial, but that's not a side in I would personally make.
Affinity
Similar to Merfolk. Get the Bontu's and Fatal Push in the deck game 2 and dump the Raven's Crimes.
Counters Company
It's decks like this where I like the dual utility of Grafdigger's over Leyline and Spellbomb. Grafdigger's stops CoCo and then you can rely on all of your removal to deal with the creatures that get on the board. Ratchet bomb for the counters is also a strong play. Again, side out the 4x Raven's Crime for those sideboard cards.
B/G/x midrange (Abzan, Jund)
See Tom Ross' quote: 8rack is a better Jund. Depending on the version they run, you may want to side in the Spellbombs. Also consider having Asylum in, to help with the card advantage for the longer games.
I am glad someone else sees the value of internal tutor. I just played in a tournament to win abox of modern masters 2017 and the only reason i did not make top 4 was losing game 3 to a saheeli which pinged me while i could not top deck a rack effect. Probably 8 turns and notjinf. The infernal will be rack #9 and i am trying it. As you say hellbent is usually your position in mid game when you need this.
Today i went 3:2 at a local tournament. Funny thing was that i lost last game against Jeskai Flash, cuz i drew 9 lands back to back the third game. LOL.. Made me think to go to 23 lands.. but i guess that's just extremely unlucky.
Today i went 3:2 at a local tournament. Funny thing was that i lost last game against Jeskai Flash, cuz i drew 9 lands back to back the third game. LOL.. Made me think to go to 23 lands.. but i guess that's just extremely unlucky.
To be fair, I've been running 23 Lands in my deck and I've found that it has worked very well. You find yourself normally drawing the right number of lands most of the time and I barely find myself being screwed period. You may draw even more than you need and hopefully you'll have a discarded crime to pitch the extra lands or pitched with Smallpox.
Today i went 3:2 at a local tournament. Funny thing was that i lost last game against Jeskai Flash, cuz i drew 9 lands back to back the third game. LOL.. Made me think to go to 23 lands.. but i guess that's just extremely unlucky.
To be fair, I've been running 23 Lands in my deck and I've found that it has worked very well. You find yourself normally drawing the right number of lands most of the time and I barely find myself being screwed period. You may draw even more than you need and hopefully you'll have a discarded crime to pitch the extra lands or pitched with Smallpox.
I agree. Very rarely do I find myself mana screwed with 23 in the deck. I believe it has only happened in 1 game out of last 20+ that I've found myself sitting on 1 land for quite a few turns. Even then, with the mana curve, I'm able to do some stuff to keep the game relatively even. Normally, I get to 3 in play with enough lands coming to pitch to other effects, but not so many that I'm without threats. Though, like being mana screwed, that does happen once in a while.
I agree. Very rarely do I find myself mana screwed with 23 in the deck. I believe it has only happened in 1 game out of last 20+ that I've found myself sitting on 1 land for quite a few turns. Even then, with the mana curve, I'm able to do some stuff to keep the game relatively even. Normally, I get to 3 in play with enough lands coming to pitch to other effects, but not so many that I'm without threats. Though, like being mana screwed, that does happen once in a while.
Well Mana-Screw comes down to running either 4 or 3 Tombs. I'm not sure the additional Swamp makes much of a difference to be fair, but it happens whether you are running 24 or 23 lands. That's simply how Magic works, variance can cost you games when there is nothing you can do about it; however, I am a firm believer that 23 lands is the correct amount you should be playing. I also am a big fan on the fetches at 2. I tried 1 and I tried 3, but it just seemed a lot of the times, I'm either wasting the fetch in hand to a discard, or I'm pinging myself in search of a swamp.
4 urborg, 4 muta
muta is very important, on top of its obvious use its a mana sink which is important for consistency and it provides additional ways to deal with planeswalkers which can drive game easily out of control
I won a fair amount of games on muta alone
4 urborg is also prefered by me
when you draw 2 or 3 of them you dont have to play and sacrifice them, they can be held back for Ravens Crime, Pox or Liliana. Plaing them to get mana and revolt is also an option
coloring your mutas is very important for consistency
4 muta is already possesses a problem sometimes, but I think their pros overcomes cons. and going down to 3 urborgs feels to make more harm than good
I did try 3x Mutavault, but I found myself preferring 4 of, in the deck.
I've run 3x fetches and 2x. With only 2 in the deck, I didn't seem to have the ability to trigger Revolt for pushes as often as I would have liked, whereas, with 3 I did. I've now upped it to 4x fetches to test that.
I think an Infernal Tutor MB is a good idea as well. Many games seem to come down to who top decks better and a tutor would help add a card that's always good for getting you to what you need, in those situations. I'll be play testing with that in the deck coming up in the next few weeks.
Outside of that, I don't know that there's much tweaking that can be done with the Mono B version of the deck. To make it any more diverse and capable of handling specific threats or weaknesses, a color splash would be required. I personally didn't like splashing white for sideboard options, as I didn't feel it added enough power for the downsides that it created. I've been toying with an Esper version, just on paper, so see if that would be viable, but I'm not sure that you'd get to a win condition quickly enough.
i think surgical extraction is better to cage against company decks . cage is a "hate card" in second game . qasali, decay , reclamation stage , etc. delirium is bad and mediocre for my reason
They serve completely different purposes. Surgical is a hate card against those cards that you're naming (Qasali, Decay, Etc.). It also takes CoCo and combo pieces, if you can get those in the grave.
Delirium is to get around control cards that stop you from directly targeting your opponent - Leyline of Sanctity, et al.
Used in completely different circumstances.
Additionally, as I mentioned, if you're running 3x Push and 2x Dismember MB with a 4th push SB and 3x Bontu's SB, CoCo should not present a large issue requiring the use of Cage. Not to mention, Cage will get hit by those cards you named, requiring you to bring in even more SB cards, like surgical, to deal with, screwing up your MB strategy even more.
Leyline of the Void serves the purpose of shutting down the graveyard, which all of your opponent's cards are going to with our discard strategy. This shuts down combo decks, lots of artifact decks that pull out of the gy, etc. Surgical can do that as well, but on a much smaller scale.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I upped the Wrench Mind count because I've always felt it was a strong card and think that it's a stronger card, for the strategy we're trying to employ, than Collective Brutality. Getting 2 cards out of the opponent's hand is great. Getting only 1, if they pitch an artifact, stinks, sure, but, in my meta at least, that doesn't come up too often. Also, comparing the CB mode of taking an instant or sorcery for 2 mana over 2 cards or 1 artifact on the Wrench, I think makes Wrench stronger, from the discard perspective. CB also tends to be more heavily represented in sideboards, across deck builds, because of its relative strength in certain matchups. The option of shocking the opponent or destroying a low toughness creature on CB makes it very versatile, but the majority of the time, taking 2 cards from hand has more impact. That's why I opted for the 4th Wrench, over a 2nd CB. I think that relative strength makes it a better 2nd copy sideboard card, while Wrench is a better 4th copy main deck, especially in game 1.
Ghost Quarter main board was fine. As a 1 of, I didn't see it too frequently, which is fine. When I did see it, I usually had an Urborg in play or could make use of it for a Revolt trigger. Part of the reason for dropping Mutavault down to 3 copies was so I could incorporate a GQ in the deck for the Tron matchups and additional Revolt trigger, if needed.
Dismember is a learning curve card, I think. I started with 2 copies in the deck and fiddled with 1 copy MB, 1 SB, as well as no copies in the deck. I've now come back to 2 copies MB because It's very useful against a number of decks. The shock from the Phyrexian mana is definitely a downside, but when utilized properly, it works out quite well. Greatest card ever? No. Good card to have in deck against many matchups? Yes. Push doesn't get everything and Dismember has definitely saved my backside. Against decks where it is a weak card and more damaging to me, it's a great pitch to Smallpox or Lili.
For running against Death's Shadow decks, Dismember is quite useful. Angler and Tasigur both can't be hit by Push because of their mana costs. But Push does huge work against Death's Shadow. I wouldn't make any changes to the deck I posted for that particular matchup. Against opposing 8 rack decks, hope for better top decks.
I'm not sold on Night of Souls' Betrayal. I agree it's great against those decks, but the 2BB cost is too high for the deck, imo. I'm more than willing to here other's thoughts on this. I did play 1 of in the SB for some matches and was maybe able to cast it once, but, by that point, it was ineffective.
I do agree that 23 land is enough.
My deck
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
3x Wrench Mind
4x Smallpox
4x Raven's Crime
2x Funeral Charm
1x Bontu's Last Reckoning
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Mutavault
4x Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
14 Swamp
2x Asylum Visitor
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Fatal Push
1x Bontu's Last Reckoning
1x Flaying Tendrils
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Collective Brutality
2x Death's Shadow
2x Deathmark
Game 1: Taking Turns, 2:0
I found out that matchup is not as easy at it seems. The cards Dictate of Kruphix and Howling Mine can be quite a problem when resolved. Also good thing to note is that if you surgical their Part the Waterveil they cannot win anymore and will eventually deck themselves out. (At least that was my opponent's only wincon)
SB: +2 Collective Brutality, +2 Surgical Extraction, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Game 2: UR Delver, 2:1
Pretty close game, Delver and Young pyromancer going wide gave me some problems. I was lucky enough to usually smallpox the pyromancer before he could cast spells on turn 2-3 when he tapped out. Perhaps he should have waited and casted him later. Nevertheless it was tough.
SB: +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Flaying Tendrils, -2 Funeral Charm (Since they got a lot of instants and draw phase discard might not always be that useful) Perhaps that was wrong, since Funeral Charm can also kill an unflipped delver and pyromancer and also snapcaster.. So going forward, i would probably leave out 1 Rack and a Raven's Crime maybe.
Game 3: UR Blue Moon Control, 2:1
His Blood Moon was a little problem game 1, since i had Mutavault and Urborg on the table. All 3 games i decided to play slow and take it easy, since that deck did not have a fast clock. So i would save up my lands in my hand and bombed his hand when i got a raven's crime in the GY. Also that i waited to play multiple spells per turn when i wanted to resolve a bomb such as Liliana to juke counterspells. Once a Liliana was resolved, it went pretty smooth.
SB: +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Nihil Spellbomb, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Game 4: Merfolk, 2:1
Game one i got flooded by 4 lords pretty quick, so i lost. Next two games, i had everything pretty much under control with Bontu's last reckonings in hand both games. Worth noting that both game 1 and 2 he had Vial on turn 1. Smallpox was also great in this matchup regardless of the vial. Always when i had the chance, i took spreading seas and Silvergill adept from his hand.
SB: -1 Wrench Mind, -1 Funeral Charm, +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Fatal Push
Game 5: GW Tron: 2:1
I think Tron is one of our harder matchups if not the hardest. Their cards such as: Sylvan Scrying, Ancient Stirrings, Chromatic Sphere, Chromatic Star, Expedition map, Relic of Progenitus all replace themselves in his hand. That makes the Tron player really hard to go hellbent. So even if he has a really bad hand, our clock is too slow and eventually they will reach tron, even if just by drawing, and Karn or Oblivion stone us. All 3 games were pretty long and ended in a topdeck war. Funeral charm is great for that since they don't run any instants and gives us practically a free turn once he gets hellbent, if that actually happens. I consider myself quite lucky to have won that game though. Even though he was stuck on 0-1 land the first game for about 5 turns, and i had 2 racks on the field, the game wasn't going nowhere because he always had a full hand. I was a bit unlucky with not having Raven's Crime in the GY though. Raven's Crime is a sick good card in this matchup i think.
SB: +2 Asylum Visitor, +2 Surgical Extraction, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Bontu's last reckoning
Since i didn't have any more useful sideboard cards in my deck like Fulminator mage, i couldn't leave out my Wrench minds. So i saved them in my hand and after an Inquisition or Thoughtseize cleared the way of artifacts, i fired Wrench Mind. It never hit an artifact so it was pretty good.
I really enjoyed the games and the deck felt really powerful. Also, in my meta i'm the only rack player and lots of players are not prepared against the deck and make misplays such as playing cards they wouldn't need to. I think its a good deck to bust it out now and then when the metagame is not prepared.
All the games, when i had the chance, i chose to be on the draw. The only exception here was against tron, since i wanted to snag his Expedition map if i could. I don't know if that was the right call. Probably not
I'm sure i could have sideboarded better in some matchups, so i am open to any comments, suggestions and critiques.
Thanks for reading!
Excellent Report here and congratulations on the 5-0! Always love seeing an 8-Rack deck doing success. I very much appreciate the sideboard tech and the gameplay explanation you gave per each match, very insightful. Also! Very excited to see positive review of Funeral Charm, I love the card personally and feel that it offers very good versatility especially in top deck situations. How did the 24 lands treat you? I've noticed and found that 23 is enough to run and sometimes see myself flooding with 24. Additionally, no Dismember in main and a Bontu's, how did that treat you? I know that it did work in the Merfolk match-up and surely you board in a minimum of 2 after the 1st game, but did you find it being a sitting duck against most match-ups in your hand? Dismember to me offers versatility even at the cost of a maximum of 4 life.
As for the Tron match-up, yes I agree, it is clearly our most difficult and worst match-up even compared to hyper-aggro builds. How do you figure sideboarding if you don't have Fulminator Mage's to fiddle around with? I run a 3 Delirium Skeins package in the board against decks like Tron, Chalice on 1, etc.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Thanks man
Regarding the 24 lands, i trust in the Boss Tom Ross and since he played with 24 lands, i'm going with that too. I'm sure he did some research on that and went with the best build he thought was right, so i respect that and i trust him.
I feel like dismember is okay, but against massive creature decks like affinity, elves or anything that goes really wide, dismember is not enough. And i feel that Bontu's in mainboard can make those matchups game 1 better, since they are a bad matchup for us. I felt it was right, even though i didnt play my games against many swarmy creature decks. Against other decks a lot of times comes down to a race - can the racks finish the game faster than his creature(s) can. In that case, Bontu is also great, since it clears everything even if the opponent had the faster clock, while dismember could cost us life and only clear one creature. In that case, opponent's creatures are removed, yours racks aren't, and it gives us another turn or more for the rack effects to tick, pulling us ahead in the race. Its also really great against Lingering souls but so is Flaying Tendrils. But i just think that Bontu's got a better utility - Hits everything. I really love that card, and i might consider even playing 2 in the mainboard.
This was our metagame:
5-0 8-Rack
4-1 Bant Humans, GW Tron, Taking Turns
3-1-1 Eldrazi Taxes, Grixis Death's Shadow, Merfolk, Storm
3-2 2x Eldrazi Tron, Elves, Jeskai Flash, Mono-W Death & Taxes
Metagame (27): 3x Elves (GB, GW Vizier, Mono-G), 2x Eldrazi Tron, 2x Grixis Control, 2x Junk, 4c Death's Shadow Zoo, 4c Mentor, 8-Rack, Bant Eldrazi, Bant Humans, Eldrazi Taxes, GB Artistocrats, Grixis Death's Shadow, Grixis Delver, GW Tron, Jeskai Flash, Jeskai Panharmonicon, Jund Death's Shadow, Merfolk, Mono-W Death & Taxes, Storm, Taking Turns, UW Gift-Rites Tron
As you can see, there is a lot of creature decks where Bontu's really shine.
Looking forward, i will definitely add 3-4 Delirium Skeins in the sideboard and i will maybe try Waste Not too.
Tron (G/x and Eldrazi)
Rough match up without any land destruction in the deck. Depending on the build, push may be worthless. Delirium Skeins could do some late game work for you.
Merfolks
I've faced Merfolk quite a few times. It's well represented in my meta. Side in the 3 Bontu's and Fatal Push. You can side out your 4x Raven's Crime. Make sure to get their Master of Waves. Ratchet bomb can do some work against Aether Vial, but that's not a side in I would personally make.
Affinity
Similar to Merfolk. Get the Bontu's and Fatal Push in the deck game 2 and dump the Raven's Crimes.
Counters Company
It's decks like this where I like the dual utility of Grafdigger's over Leyline and Spellbomb. Grafdigger's stops CoCo and then you can rely on all of your removal to deal with the creatures that get on the board. Ratchet bomb for the counters is also a strong play. Again, side out the 4x Raven's Crime for those sideboard cards.
B/G/x midrange (Abzan, Jund)
See Tom Ross' quote: 8rack is a better Jund. Depending on the version they run, you may want to side in the Spellbombs. Also consider having Asylum in, to help with the card advantage for the longer games.
To be fair, I've been running 23 Lands in my deck and I've found that it has worked very well. You find yourself normally drawing the right number of lands most of the time and I barely find myself being screwed period. You may draw even more than you need and hopefully you'll have a discarded crime to pitch the extra lands or pitched with Smallpox.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
I agree. Very rarely do I find myself mana screwed with 23 in the deck. I believe it has only happened in 1 game out of last 20+ that I've found myself sitting on 1 land for quite a few turns. Even then, with the mana curve, I'm able to do some stuff to keep the game relatively even. Normally, I get to 3 in play with enough lands coming to pitch to other effects, but not so many that I'm without threats. Though, like being mana screwed, that does happen once in a while.
Well Mana-Screw comes down to running either 4 or 3 Tombs. I'm not sure the additional Swamp makes much of a difference to be fair, but it happens whether you are running 24 or 23 lands. That's simply how Magic works, variance can cost you games when there is nothing you can do about it; however, I am a firm believer that 23 lands is the correct amount you should be playing. I also am a big fan on the fetches at 2. I tried 1 and I tried 3, but it just seemed a lot of the times, I'm either wasting the fetch in hand to a discard, or I'm pinging myself in search of a swamp.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Just remember to not side in many 3-4 drops
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I love it. great sideboard card against control/combo decks.
muta is very important, on top of its obvious use its a mana sink which is important for consistency and it provides additional ways to deal with planeswalkers which can drive game easily out of control
I won a fair amount of games on muta alone
4 urborg is also prefered by me
when you draw 2 or 3 of them you dont have to play and sacrifice them, they can be held back for Ravens Crime, Pox or Liliana. Plaing them to get mana and revolt is also an option
coloring your mutas is very important for consistency
4 muta is already possesses a problem sometimes, but I think their pros overcomes cons. and going down to 3 urborgs feels to make more harm than good
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
After playing with the deck more, it's clear that Grafdigger's Cage is not a good substitute for Leyline of the Void. Though it can catch Collected Company decks too, the 3x Bontu's Last Reckoning in the sideboard, together with all of the other removal options, is sufficient.
I did try 3x Mutavault, but I found myself preferring 4 of, in the deck.
I've run 3x fetches and 2x. With only 2 in the deck, I didn't seem to have the ability to trigger Revolt for pushes as often as I would have liked, whereas, with 3 I did. I've now upped it to 4x fetches to test that.
I think an Infernal Tutor MB is a good idea as well. Many games seem to come down to who top decks better and a tutor would help add a card that's always good for getting you to what you need, in those situations. I'll be play testing with that in the deck coming up in the next few weeks.
Outside of that, I don't know that there's much tweaking that can be done with the Mono B version of the deck. To make it any more diverse and capable of handling specific threats or weaknesses, a color splash would be required. I personally didn't like splashing white for sideboard options, as I didn't feel it added enough power for the downsides that it created. I've been toying with an Esper version, just on paper, so see if that would be viable, but I'm not sure that you'd get to a win condition quickly enough.
They serve completely different purposes. Surgical is a hate card against those cards that you're naming (Qasali, Decay, Etc.). It also takes CoCo and combo pieces, if you can get those in the grave.
Delirium is to get around control cards that stop you from directly targeting your opponent - Leyline of Sanctity, et al.
Used in completely different circumstances.
Additionally, as I mentioned, if you're running 3x Push and 2x Dismember MB with a 4th push SB and 3x Bontu's SB, CoCo should not present a large issue requiring the use of Cage. Not to mention, Cage will get hit by those cards you named, requiring you to bring in even more SB cards, like surgical, to deal with, screwing up your MB strategy even more.
Leyline of the Void serves the purpose of shutting down the graveyard, which all of your opponent's cards are going to with our discard strategy. This shuts down combo decks, lots of artifact decks that pull out of the gy, etc. Surgical can do that as well, but on a much smaller scale.