In summary, I really hope people play this at GP weekend. The deck is nuts and generates an unfair number of free wins against so many decks in the format. Although it has bad matchups, every Modern deck has bad matchups, so if you're going to play the matchup lottery you should do so where you're getting as many freebies as possible.
Also, here's my new sideboard. It's the SB I'd take to the GP if I was going:
I decided to ditch the Leylines because it made sideboarding too difficult against BGx and they took up too many slots. BGx is winnable without the Leylines so the cost/benefit analysis wasn't favorable.
In general, Paths are for fast creature-based decks to buy time, or for hateful creatures that stop the combo. Truth/Fragmentize are for decks with Chalice, Leyline, Stony Silence, etc. Outcome is for BGx. Silence is for blue-based reactive decks. If you want to keep the Leylines in, go -1 Outcome, -1 Truth, -1 Silence, and -1 Path, but only do this if you expect a LOT of BGx. When you're sideboarding, your flex slots are Visions, Songs, 1-2 equipment, and 1 of either GS or NR, depending on which one you have 2 copies of. Generally speaking, never board out more than 5 cards.
I really like the idea of tarns to bluff what you're on. i found 5 shocks to be ideal over seachrome coast, you often want to have more fetchables. On the draw side out a tarn.
I really like the idea of tarns to bluff what you're on. i found 5 shocks to be ideal over seachrome coast, you often want to have more fetchables. On the draw side out a tarn.
I'm just all in on Marsh Flats with some Heaths. Who the heck doesn't want to tap out against a slow Abzan start? I still love the Coasts though and wouldn't want to remove them, but I did find 4 was too many.
ktk, do you board in Paths against Burn, or Echoing Truth/Silence? Or do you stand pat with your maindeck Swan Songs and just be very fast and scary?
For Burn I'm keeping the Songs, going -1 Grapeshot/-1 equipment/-1 SV, +2 Path, and +1 Truth. Songs stop all the Burn SB cards, all the removal, and Eidolon. Paths stop Eidolon and can also buy you time against the creatures. I keep the Truth in as a silver bullet in case a weird SB card appears and I need an out. In fact, there are few matchups where I don't try to add one Truth as a catchall for weird answers and as a way of interacting.
I've been down with a cold and played zero Magic this week, missing both early week Modern events. I've decided to run the Prairie's and SSG's with Serum Visions instead of Serum Powder. I'll report the next time I get to play.
I posted a list a couple of days back that Serenechaos commented on. The deck feels a lot more explosive. I'm casting Sram on T1 off SSG a lot more than I'm seeing Prairie, SSG & Paladin T1, but Grapeshot has never been easier to cast! Lol.. Also I've switched back to Flooded Strand to insure I can fetch an Island against Choke, which all the Jund players are running now. I can only fit two Seachrome Coast (which does offer some Choke protection) with the playset of Rugged Prairie in the deck, and I'm only running 4 fetches.
My T1 kill rate goldfishing is 14%! I'm running a Hurkyl's as a 5th retract and 19 equip.
A few tweaks from the last time I posted a list:
I've moved Hurkyl's to the main since I would like that fifth copy and I also expect a decent amount of Eldrazi Tron so having a maindeck answer for Chalice is good.
Finally switched over to the set of Nets and down to just one Kite Shield, as I expect a lot more matches where Reach is relevant over the jump from 4 to 5 toughness.
Things I'm still not sure on:
14 vs. 15 lands - I've had a lot of land-induced mulligans lately (by which I mean no lands, not one landers, but plenty of those too). Will probably end up dropping the 21st equip (last Kite Shield) for another Fountain but I'm still unsure. Is nayone else still on the 14 land train or has everyone moved over?
There's been a fair amount of discussion about using other fetches to imitate something else if possible. Has that been working out for folks? Does it outweigh the knowledge we give observant opponents that we have no basic islands? (though I suppose decks that play Blood Moon are still going to trot it out ASAP regardless).
I've still been very happy with Geist against Control matchups (and am happy with it vs. BGx decks as well since they really only have Lili as an answer, especially once you start suiting it up and make it a 2/unkillable by blocks). Should I keep it or replace it with a third Paradoxical/some other alternate threat (none of which I'm too happy with at the moment)?
Should I swap out the Wear/Tears with Fragmentizes? I feel like the answer is yes but I do really like instant-speed answers in the deck.
Modern: WUR Eat a good breakfast, have some Cheeri0s! C I've got an Affinity for running you over with artifacts
EDH: G Ezuri W Kemba WUBRG Scion-spiracy (in progress)
For the dangerously aggressive lists with SSG+Prairie, I recommend going up to 23 or 24 equipment. The reason being, you want your chains to be as long as possible before finding Retract or Recall. Having 5 or 6 more equipments means that your odds of chaining longer are more reliable.
I think these are finally ready for community eyes and feedback. Here are some very strong departures from the standard shell:
This deck eschews maindeck interaction (Swan Song) for a powerful dig spell. Turn 1 on the play, the odds of hitting Paladin or Sram with Commune are 57.43% with no mulligan OR a mulligan to 6 (because if Paladin is not the 7th card, you scry it away essentially getting the same top 5 as if you had drawn 7!). On a mull to 5, it's 56.66%. The sideboard is mostly cute but highly effective interaction. Instant speed 3/3 Paladin seems really good, especially when it bypasses all of Grixis control's blue answers to us.
Oh, also, you get to play 4 Horizon Canopy!! Turn 1 needs Green now for Commune, so just go ahead and slam those free card draws for when you're bricking. This will be slightly more recognizable, since Canopy is a known card in the UW versions; but it seems pretty worth it for when it comes up, and you still get to present as "not Cheeri0s" in most Game Ones with T1 Fetch-->Temple Garden.
Like all lists, this one has some room for tweaking: +/- 1 or 2 equipments, Noxious Revival numbers, maindecking some of the protection. An EOT Savage Summoning in Game 1 could really confuse someone even if they know the deck.
This deck is way different, and it's doubtful anyone will peg you for Cheeri0s in game 1. Discard makes you very aggressive against the decks that are trying to interact with you. Everyone who came here today knowing that Cheeri0s is taking off? They're in for a world of hurt. Discard also allows you to protect your combo while still making proactive turn 1 plays AND curving into the Turn 2 kill. Swan Song requires you to wait until Turn 3. Discard also gives you perfect information. What could be more dangerous than the premier Turn 2 kill deck opening with knowledge of their opponent's hand and a head start on interaction??
And Spoils...oh boy, Spoils. Yes, it's bad. But it's not awful, in this list. Not as a 2-of emergency button. Not with 8 dudes massively reducing your need to use it. Always lead with dudes and recover (if needed) with Spoils, so that you've drawn more cards. Most of them time, this will be a mid-combo cast when you just can't find Retract in time. It's a very safe cast at that point, assuming your opponent hasn't led with Goblin Guide double Bolt your face. Spoils is bad, and entirely optional here; but it does provide a strong Turn 1 window alongside 6 discard spells. That's 8 things you can do on Turn 1, all proactive, all very powerful, all providing a perfect mana curve into a combo kill.
Optional tweaks here include: -1 or 2 Spoils NOT +Spoils; +1 Grapeshot if you keep Spoils in; +/- 1-2 Discard Spells (Duress is worse than IOK), or replacing 1-3 with Thoughseize; +1 MD Hurkyl's (I think my personal version currently has it over the second Duress); +1-3 Equipments, Sigil is actually really good here since your bricks will likely land on discard spells, rip their hand apart and start the grindy beatdown plan.
Do not add the second Plains. I know it's rough, especially with Polluted Delta not fetching the one Plains you do have. But with 6 discard spells, you really don't want to open on just Plains and be hoping for that topdeck fetch.
Also you may have noticed that there's no sideboard. I have no idea what to do in BW aside from discard, Silence, Paths.
Ok guys. This isn't exactly secret, several of you have been working on it. But I think this is approximately optimal.
This version is fast. No, really fast. No, you're not understanding. It's really, really fast. My first 2 games with it were a Turn 2 kill on the play and a turn 1 kill on a mull to 6. It's totally exposed, no protection. 13 lands works out fine, because you often jam Opal into dude turn 1. You can be reckless with Opals because SSG can cast your Grapeshot.
Cascade Bluffs is for filtering SSGs into Retracts and Recalls. You run AT LEAST 2 Recalls because SSG makes it so easy to use them mid-combo. That gives you between 6 and 8 Retract effects which is a level of broken that I can't begin to describe. It doesn't work in other versions; the 5th Retract is great but more Recalls get too heavy to support at 2cmc. SSG also makes it much easier to land 2+ dudes on turn 2 while comboing.
You very, very rarely brick. With 2 fewer lands getting in your way, SSG casting Recalls and Srams, 4 more Equipments than normal, and almost nothing but sleek combo, a turn that starts going gets there often.
This version is not great. It has no resilience. It has no way to dig. It has no interaction whatsoever outside of Affinity, and Infect decks that are about to kill you with Inkmoth. But if you want to play the absolute, no holds barred, fastest deck this format will ever see; here it is.
Options include: +4 Serum Powder; +1 Noxious Revival (I'm always always saying to run at least 2, but not in this build, it's just another brick too often); +1-2 Hurkyl's; -1-4 equipments; +1 Sideboard. The problem with all of these optional additions is that it's just so difficult to make room in this particular 60; all Cheeri0s decks are extremely tight on space, but this one is the most firm. The unusually high equipment count makes it smooth. The land count is carefully balanced to leverage the extra mana from SSG without leaving you stranded on Turn 1. The 6th Retract effect is crucial in keeping you from fizzling.
Well, that's this one. It's so super fast. And fragile. And difficult to tweak. Play this version if all you want out of this deck is to kill people before they finish shuffling, and you don't care about your overall win rate.
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Slowly breaking.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
A bit different from the last time I posted a list:
I've moved Hurkyl's to the main since I would like that fifth copy and I also expect a decent amount of Eldrazi Tron so having a maindeck answer for Chalice is good.
Finally switched over to the set of Nets and down to just one Kite Shield, as I expect a lot more matches where Reach is relevant over the jump from 4 to 5 toughness.
Hurkyl's is excellent in the main. It boosts consistency and gives you maindeck outs to random artifacts. Definitely a big fan!
14 vs. 15 lands - I've had a lot of land-induced mulligans lately (by which I mean no lands, not one landers, but plenty of those too). Will probably end up dropping the 21st equip (last Kite Shield) for another Fountain but I'm still unsure. Is nayone else still on the 14 land train or has everyone moved over?
I'm done with 14 lands for now. It just didn't feel good on the mulligans, especially if you had 3 SV. 15 lands lets you trim to 3 down from 4 and improves your mulligan consistency. Also, the extra lands help in longer games where you really need to build mana.
There's been a fair amount of discussion about using other fetches to imitate something else if possible. Has that been working out for folks? Does it outweigh the knowledge we give observant opponents that we have no basic islands? (though I suppose decks that play Blood Moon are still going to trot it out ASAP regardless).
There's no real drawback to running the Abzan lands because we aren't ever playing basic Islands in a deck with WW Puresteel. It's just a small edge in some matchups, especially if you're on the draw and you lead on Heath/Flats; it's much more likely people will drop removal shields against that kind of opener.
I've still been very happy with Geist against Control matchups (and am happy with it vs. BGx decks as well since they really only have Lili as an answer, especially once you start suiting it up and make it a 2/unkillable by blocks). Should I keep it or replace it with a third Paradoxical/some other alternate threat (none of which I'm too happy with at the moment)?
My big problem with Geist is the double block scenario. I find that most control/midrange decks are Grixis, and most of those are running Tasigurs and other proactive ways to close a game. Those critters become Geist blockers once we send him into the red. Moreover, he's definitely bad against BGx (Lily + double blocks are nightmares). I think if you're playing lots of Esper and Jeskai it's fine, but I generally just go +1 Outcome and +4 Silence against grindy blue decks.
Should I swap out the Wear/Tears with Fragmentizes? I feel like the answer is yes but I do really like instant-speed answers in the deck.
-2 W/T and +2 Fragmentize is where I'm at; Frag is better during combo chains, but can be worse if you're tight on mana and need to answer something like Chalice or Moon during an opponent's turn. In my board, I also bounce between 3 ET and -1 ET for +1 W/T. The added versatility can be nice and help in tight spots against those Moon decks and decks with Spellskite + Eidolon of Rhetoric.
Indeed - my local meta is filled with Esper and Jeskai (because everyone in Seattle thinks they're the best control player in the world), but I don't expect those two to be anywhere near as prevalent at the GP, so Geist will probably be less great there.
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LapsedLevel 1 Judge
Modern: WUR Eat a good breakfast, have some Cheeri0s! C I've got an Affinity for running you over with artifacts
EDH: G Ezuri W Kemba WUBRG Scion-spiracy (in progress)
For the dangerously aggressive lists with SSG+Prairie, I recommend going up to 23 or 24 equipment. The reason being, you want your chains to be as long as possible before finding Retract or Recall. Having 5 or 6 more equipments means that your odds of chaining longer are more reliable.
I think these are finally ready for community eyes and feedback. Here are some very strong departures from the standard shell:
This deck eschews maindeck interaction (Swan Song) for a powerful dig spell. Turn 1 on the play, the odds of hitting Paladin or Sram with Commune are 57.43% with no mulligan OR a mulligan to 6 (because if Paladin is not the 7th card, you scry it away essentially getting the same top 5 as if you had drawn 7!). On a mull to 5, it's 56.66%. The sideboard is mostly cute but highly effective interaction. Instant speed 3/3 Paladin seems really good, especially when it bypasses all of Grixis control's blue answers to us.
Oh, also, you get to play 4 Horizon Canopy!! Turn 1 needs Green now for Commune, so just go ahead and slam those free card draws for when you're bricking. This will be slightly more recognizable, since Canopy is a known card in the UW versions; but it seems pretty worth it for when it comes up, and you still get to present as "not Cheeri0s" in most Game Ones with T1 Fetch-->Temple Garden.
Like all lists, this one has some room for tweaking: +/- 1 or 2 equipments, Noxious Revival numbers, maindecking some of the protection. An EOT Savage Summoning in Game 1 could really confuse someone even if they know the deck.
This deck is way different, and it's doubtful anyone will peg you for Cheeri0s in game 1. Discard makes you very aggressive against the decks that are trying to interact with you. Everyone who came here today knowing that Cheeri0s is taking off? They're in for a world of hurt. Discard also allows you to protect your combo while still making proactive turn 1 plays AND curving into the Turn 2 kill. Swan Song requires you to wait until Turn 3. Discard also gives you perfect information. What could be more dangerous than the premier Turn 2 kill deck opening with knowledge of their opponent's hand and a head start on interaction??
And Spoils...oh boy, Spoils. Yes, it's bad. But it's not awful, in this list. Not as a 2-of emergency button. Not with 8 dudes massively reducing your need to use it. Always lead with dudes and recover (if needed) with Spoils, so that you've drawn more cards. Most of them time, this will be a mid-combo cast when you just can't find Retract in time. It's a very safe cast at that point, assuming your opponent hasn't led with Goblin Guide double Bolt your face. Spoils is bad, and entirely optional here; but it does provide a strong Turn 1 window alongside 6 discard spells. That's 8 things you can do on Turn 1, all proactive, all very powerful, all providing a perfect mana curve into a combo kill.
Optional tweaks here include: -1 or 2 Spoils NOT +Spoils; +1 Grapeshot if you keep Spoils in; +/- 1-2 Discard Spells (Duress is worse than IOK), or replacing 1-3 with Thoughseize; +1 MD Hurkyl's (I think my personal version currently has it over the second Duress); +1-3 Equipments, Sigil is actually really good here since your bricks will likely land on discard spells, rip their hand apart and start the grindy beatdown plan.
Do not add the second Plains. I know it's rough, especially with Polluted Delta not fetching the one Plains you do have. But with 6 discard spells, you really don't want to open on just Plains and be hoping for that topdeck fetch.
Also you may have noticed that there's no sideboard. I have no idea what to do in BW aside from discard, Silence, Paths.
Ok guys. This isn't exactly secret, several of you have been working on it. But I think this is approximately optimal.
This version is fast. No, really fast. No, you're not understanding. It's really, really fast. My first 2 games with it were a Turn 2 kill on the play and a turn 1 kill on a mull to 6. It's totally exposed, no protection. 13 lands works out fine, because you often jam Opal into dude turn 1. You can be reckless with Opals because SSG can cast your Grapeshot.
Cascade Bluffs is for filtering SSGs into Retracts and Recalls. You run AT LEAST 2 Recalls because SSG makes it so easy to use them mid-combo. That gives you between 6 and 8 Retract effects which is a level of broken that I can't begin to describe. It doesn't work in other versions; the 5th Retract is great but more Recalls get too heavy to support at 2cmc. SSG also makes it much easier to land 2+ dudes on turn 2 while comboing.
You very, very rarely brick. With 2 fewer lands getting in your way, SSG casting Recalls and Srams, 4 more Equipments than normal, and almost nothing but sleek combo, a turn that starts going gets there often.
This version is not great. It has no resilience. It has no way to dig. It has no interaction whatsoever outside of Affinity, and Infect decks that are about to kill you with Inkmoth. But if you want to play the absolute, no holds barred, fastest deck this format will ever see; here it is.
Options include: +4 Serum Powder; +1 Noxious Revival (I'm always always saying to run at least 2, but not in this build, it's just another brick too often); +1-2 Hurkyl's; -1-4 equipments; +1 Sideboard. The problem with all of these optional additions is that it's just so difficult to make room in this particular 60; all Cheeri0s decks are extremely tight on space, but this one is the most firm. The unusually high equipment count makes it smooth. The land count is carefully balanced to leverage the extra mana from SSG without leaving you stranded on Turn 1. The 6th Retract effect is crucial in keeping you from fizzling.
Well, that's this one. It's so super fast. And fragile. And difficult to tweak. Play this version if all you want out of this deck is to kill people before they finish shuffling, and you don't care about your overall win rate.
YOU are a Madman, and a Genius, and MY Hero!!
Edit: The Cascade Bluffs, yes! My version of the 3rd deck has 15 lands, 2 Serum Visions, 1 Nox, 1 Hurkyl's, 1 Swan Song, and a lot fewer Cheeri0s, but I will be making tweaks and definitely removing lands. What can I say? I want turn 1 kills but I love live draws. Oh, and that BW version is going to Hurt Someone!!
For the dangerously aggressive lists with SSG+Prairie, I recommend going up to 23 or 24 equipment. The reason being, you want your chains to be as long as possible before finding Retract or Recall. Having 5 or 6 more equipments means that your odds of chaining longer are more reliable.
I think these are finally ready for community eyes and feedback. Here are some very strong departures from the standard shell:
This deck eschews maindeck interaction (Swan Song) for a powerful dig spell. Turn 1 on the play, the odds of hitting Paladin or Sram with Commune are 57.43% with no mulligan OR a mulligan to 6 (because if Paladin is not the 7th card, you scry it away essentially getting the same top 5 as if you had drawn 7!). On a mull to 5, it's 56.66%. The sideboard is mostly cute but highly effective interaction. Instant speed 3/3 Paladin seems really good, especially when it bypasses all of Grixis control's blue answers to us.
Oh, also, you get to play 4 Horizon Canopy!! Turn 1 needs Green now for Commune, so just go ahead and slam those free card draws for when you're bricking. This will be slightly more recognizable, since Canopy is a known card in the UW versions; but it seems pretty worth it for when it comes up, and you still get to present as "not Cheeri0s" in most Game Ones with T1 Fetch-->Temple Garden.
Like all lists, this one has some room for tweaking: +/- 1 or 2 equipments, Noxious Revival numbers, maindecking some of the protection. An EOT Savage Summoning in Game 1 could really confuse someone even if they know the deck.
This deck is way different, and it's doubtful anyone will peg you for Cheeri0s in game 1. Discard makes you very aggressive against the decks that are trying to interact with you. Everyone who came here today knowing that Cheeri0s is taking off? They're in for a world of hurt. Discard also allows you to protect your combo while still making proactive turn 1 plays AND curving into the Turn 2 kill. Swan Song requires you to wait until Turn 3. Discard also gives you perfect information. What could be more dangerous than the premier Turn 2 kill deck opening with knowledge of their opponent's hand and a head start on interaction??
And Spoils...oh boy, Spoils. Yes, it's bad. But it's not awful, in this list. Not as a 2-of emergency button. Not with 8 dudes massively reducing your need to use it. Always lead with dudes and recover (if needed) with Spoils, so that you've drawn more cards. Most of them time, this will be a mid-combo cast when you just can't find Retract in time. It's a very safe cast at that point, assuming your opponent hasn't led with Goblin Guide double Bolt your face. Spoils is bad, and entirely optional here; but it does provide a strong Turn 1 window alongside 6 discard spells. That's 8 things you can do on Turn 1, all proactive, all very powerful, all providing a perfect mana curve into a combo kill.
Optional tweaks here include: -1 or 2 Spoils NOT +Spoils; +1 Grapeshot if you keep Spoils in; +/- 1-2 Discard Spells (Duress is worse than IOK), or replacing 1-3 with Thoughseize; +1 MD Hurkyl's (I think my personal version currently has it over the second Duress); +1-3 Equipments, Sigil is actually really good here since your bricks will likely land on discard spells, rip their hand apart and start the grindy beatdown plan.
Do not add the second Plains. I know it's rough, especially with Polluted Delta not fetching the one Plains you do have. But with 6 discard spells, you really don't want to open on just Plains and be hoping for that topdeck fetch.
Also you may have noticed that there's no sideboard. I have no idea what to do in BW aside from discard, Silence, Paths.
Ok guys. This isn't exactly secret, several of you have been working on it. But I think this is approximately optimal.
This version is fast. No, really fast. No, you're not understanding. It's really, really fast. My first 2 games with it were a Turn 2 kill on the play and a turn 1 kill on a mull to 6. It's totally exposed, no protection. 13 lands works out fine, because you often jam Opal into dude turn 1. You can be reckless with Opals because SSG can cast your Grapeshot.
Cascade Bluffs is for filtering SSGs into Retracts and Recalls. You run AT LEAST 2 Recalls because SSG makes it so easy to use them mid-combo. That gives you between 6 and 8 Retract effects which is a level of broken that I can't begin to describe. It doesn't work in other versions; the 5th Retract is great but more Recalls get too heavy to support at 2cmc. SSG also makes it much easier to land 2+ dudes on turn 2 while comboing.
You very, very rarely brick. With 2 fewer lands getting in your way, SSG casting Recalls and Srams, 4 more Equipments than normal, and almost nothing but sleek combo, a turn that starts going gets there often.
This version is not great. It has no resilience. It has no way to dig. It has no interaction whatsoever outside of Affinity, and Infect decks that are about to kill you with Inkmoth. But if you want to play the absolute, no holds barred, fastest deck this format will ever see; here it is.
Options include: +4 Serum Powder; +1 Noxious Revival (I'm always always saying to run at least 2, but not in this build, it's just another brick too often); +1-2 Hurkyl's; -1-4 equipments; +1 Sideboard. The problem with all of these optional additions is that it's just so difficult to make room in this particular 60; all Cheeri0s decks are extremely tight on space, but this one is the most firm. The unusually high equipment count makes it smooth. The land count is carefully balanced to leverage the extra mana from SSG without leaving you stranded on Turn 1. The 6th Retract effect is crucial in keeping you from fizzling.
Well, that's this one. It's so super fast. And fragile. And difficult to tweak. Play this version if all you want out of this deck is to kill people before they finish shuffling, and you don't care about your overall win rate.
YOU are a Madman, and a Genius, and MY Hero!!
Edit: The Cascade Bluffs, yes! My version of the 3rd deck has 15 lands, 2 Serum Visions, 1 Nox, 1 Hurkyl's, 1 Swan Song, and a lot fewer Cheeri0s, but I will be making tweaks and definitely removing lands. What can I say? I want turn 1 kills but I love live draws. Oh, and that BW version is going to Hurt Someone!!
All these have their own issues and inconsistencies. Modern in my meta is so fast that I'm not sure the slower disruptive route is the way to go. Not to mention lowering 0's imo seems rough. List one is cute but t1 you're basically giving them the free info and letting them hold up disruptive spells. Then list 3 to me seems like it mulls more than regular builds but I could be wrong. I'm sure they are all fun and usable but at what point is it just too cute to have some odd spells when the deck already fizzles as is sometimes. The second list states sometimes your opponent doesn't know what you're on g1, to me that implies you lost g1 lol. Bluffs is just a dead land t1 and can't cast paladin t2 so I'm fairly certain I wouldn't add it to my list.
None of these lower equipments....and the BW list is not slower or more disruptive, it's disruption is just proactive. It still has the same speed with maybe minor effects on numbers from losing SV.
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Slowly breaking.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
Cranial plating somewhere in the 75? It's an equipment, it's a decent plan-B. Anyone tried it? I like mentor but what if you didn't need mentor? Just an idea.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Cranial plating somewhere in the 75? It's an equipment, it's a decent plan-B. Anyone tried it? I like mentor but what if you didn't need mentor? Just an idea.
Although not quite as effective, but I run a single golem-skin gauntlets in my list and it has won me several games. Tactic is know when to play it in relation to the combo, such as playing retract etc.
Previously I have played lots of equipments but not quite managed to combo. Played gauntlets and attacked with an equipped paladin dealing a good amount of damage and then combo' don the following turn.
I think the major downside with cranial plating is the cost. Similarly, swiftfoot boots (which is a better card for this deck) doesn't appear in many lists.
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Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
None of these lower equipments....and the BW list is not slower or more disruptive, it's disruption is just proactive. It still has the same speed with maybe minor effects on numbers from losing SV.
They run about 6 less 0's than my list. I personally think the deck is all about speed. I went 3-1 tonight with my loss to jund. Most kills were t2/3 g1 so I don't personally see a need for the fancy things.
For the dangerously aggressive lists with SSG+Prairie, I recommend going up to 23 or 24 equipment. The reason being, you want your chains to be as long as possible before finding Retract or Recall. Having 5 or 6 more equipments means that your odds of chaining longer are more reliable.
I think these are finally ready for community eyes and feedback. Here are some very strong departures from the standard shell:
Ok guys. This isn't exactly secret, several of you have been working on it. But I think this is approximately optimal.
This version is fast. No, really fast. No, you're not understanding. It's really, really fast. My first 2 games with it were a Turn 2 kill on the play and a turn 1 kill on a mull to 6. It's totally exposed, no protection. 13 lands works out fine, because you often jam Opal into dude turn 1. You can be reckless with Opals because SSG can cast your Grapeshot.
Cascade Bluffs is for filtering SSGs into Retracts and Recalls. You run AT LEAST 2 Recalls because SSG makes it so easy to use them mid-combo. That gives you between 6 and 8 Retract effects which is a level of broken that I can't begin to describe. It doesn't work in other versions; the 5th Retract is great but more Recalls get too heavy to support at 2cmc. SSG also makes it much easier to land 2+ dudes on turn 2 while comboing.
You very, very rarely brick. With 2 fewer lands getting in your way, SSG casting Recalls and Srams, 4 more Equipments than normal, and almost nothing but sleek combo, a turn that starts going gets there often.
This version is not great. It has no resilience. It has no way to dig. It has no interaction whatsoever outside of Affinity, and Infect decks that are about to kill you with Inkmoth. But if you want to play the absolute, no holds barred, fastest deck this format will ever see; here it is.
Options include: +4 Serum Powder; +1 Noxious Revival (I'm always always saying to run at least 2, but not in this build, it's just another brick too often); +1-2 Hurkyl's; -1-4 equipments; +1 Sideboard. The problem with all of these optional additions is that it's just so difficult to make room in this particular 60; all Cheeri0s decks are extremely tight on space, but this one is the most firm. The unusually high equipment count makes it smooth. The land count is carefully balanced to leverage the extra mana from SSG without leaving you stranded on Turn 1. The 6th Retract effect is crucial in keeping you from fizzling.
Well, that's this one. It's so super fast. And fragile. And difficult to tweak. Play this version if all you want out of this deck is to kill people before they finish shuffling, and you don't care about your overall win rate.
I took the all in version for a spin and went 4-1 in a friendly modern league online. My only changes were to switch sigil with kite shield (toughening up puresteel seems better than occasionally paying mana to get more power on your guys). I went with a very basic sideboard:
In general I would side out some number of Kite Shields, usually one or two. My basic thinking is that Revival is for grindy matchups as extra draw engines, echoing truth comes in if they have white mana, leyline comes in against thoughtseize et al, and path and favor of the mighty come in against burn.
Strategically I would mull until I got a draw engine and at least one mana. Using that rule I kept seven cards 6 times, six cards 4 times, and five cards once. I'm not sure how lucky that is. One nice thing about this build is that it's pretty much always right to go for it.
Overall, this deck is insanely fast. I did unlock a new achievement:
This is off a mull to 6 on the play.
My only match loss came from mana issues. In game one my only mana sources were a Rugged Prairie and Cascade Bluffs. In game two I pulled the bluffs for a Marsh Flats and wound up losing because I couldn't filter into blue mana while comboing off. I'm not sure which failure mode comes up more often but it seems they are both real things to worry about.
Also, just to emphasize: turn one Sram or Puresteel is absurd. If they can't deal with it then a turn two kill is fairly likely and a turn three kill a near certainty. It's kind of hilarious to catch yourself thinking "man I keep kind of fizzling and letting this game drag out" and then realizing you're still winning on turn 3.
On reflection I think some number of Silence belong in the sideboard as anti-burn tech. In general if you side out 3 or 4 equipment you wind up a similar build to the "standard" version of the deck after removing Serum Visions and Swan Song so you don't necessarily have to stay completely all in crazy in the post board games.
http://modernnexus.com/the-cheeri0s-series-gp-vancouver-deck-of-choice/
In summary, I really hope people play this at GP weekend. The deck is nuts and generates an unfair number of free wins against so many decks in the format. Although it has bad matchups, every Modern deck has bad matchups, so if you're going to play the matchup lottery you should do so where you're getting as many freebies as possible.
Also, here's my new sideboard. It's the SB I'd take to the GP if I was going:
3 Path to Exile
4 Silence
3 Echoing Truth
2 Fragmentize
3 Paradoxical Outcome
I decided to ditch the Leylines because it made sideboarding too difficult against BGx and they took up too many slots. BGx is winnable without the Leylines so the cost/benefit analysis wasn't favorable.
In general, Paths are for fast creature-based decks to buy time, or for hateful creatures that stop the combo. Truth/Fragmentize are for decks with Chalice, Leyline, Stony Silence, etc. Outcome is for BGx. Silence is for blue-based reactive decks. If you want to keep the Leylines in, go -1 Outcome, -1 Truth, -1 Silence, and -1 Path, but only do this if you expect a LOT of BGx. When you're sideboarding, your flex slots are Visions, Songs, 1-2 equipment, and 1 of either GS or NR, depending on which one you have 2 copies of. Generally speaking, never board out more than 5 cards.
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
I really like the idea of tarns to bluff what you're on. i found 5 shocks to be ideal over seachrome coast, you often want to have more fetchables. On the draw side out a tarn.
ktk, do you board in Paths against Burn, or Echoing Truth/Silence? Or do you stand pat with your maindeck Swan Songs and just be very fast and scary?
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
I'm just all in on Marsh Flats with some Heaths. Who the heck doesn't want to tap out against a slow Abzan start? I still love the Coasts though and wouldn't want to remove them, but I did find 4 was too many.
For Burn I'm keeping the Songs, going -1 Grapeshot/-1 equipment/-1 SV, +2 Path, and +1 Truth. Songs stop all the Burn SB cards, all the removal, and Eidolon. Paths stop Eidolon and can also buy you time against the creatures. I keep the Truth in as a silver bullet in case a weird SB card appears and I need an out. In fact, there are few matchups where I don't try to add one Truth as a catchall for weird answers and as a way of interacting.
I've never been keen on Coasts, but in my Top Secret list the fastlands are amazing.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
It makes for fun T1 wins however.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
My T1 kill rate goldfishing is 14%! I'm running a Hurkyl's as a 5th retract and 19 equip.
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
Artifacts: 25
4 Mox Opal
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
1 Kite Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Bone Saw
4 Paradise Mantle
Spells: 13
3 Serum Visions
2 Grapeshot
1 Noxious Revival
2 Swan Song
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Retract
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
4 Silence
3 Echoing Truth
3 Path to Exile
2 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Wear // Tear
A few tweaks from the last time I posted a list:
I've moved Hurkyl's to the main since I would like that fifth copy and I also expect a decent amount of Eldrazi Tron so having a maindeck answer for Chalice is good.
Finally switched over to the set of Nets and down to just one Kite Shield, as I expect a lot more matches where Reach is relevant over the jump from 4 to 5 toughness.
Things I'm still not sure on:
Level 1 JudgeModern:
WUR Eat a good breakfast, have some Cheeri0s!
C I've got an Affinity for running you over with artifacts
EDH:
G Ezuri
W Kemba
WUBRG Scion-spiracy (in progress)
I think these are finally ready for community eyes and feedback. Here are some very strong departures from the standard shell:
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
4 Commune With Nature
4 Retract
4 Mox Opal
3 Noxious Revival
1 Grapeshot
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Bone Saw
1 Sigil of Distinction
3 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
4 Rebuff the Wicked
4 Nature's Claim
3 Path to Exile
This deck eschews maindeck interaction (Swan Song) for a powerful dig spell. Turn 1 on the play, the odds of hitting Paladin or Sram with Commune are 57.43% with no mulligan OR a mulligan to 6 (because if Paladin is not the 7th card, you scry it away essentially getting the same top 5 as if you had drawn 7!). On a mull to 5, it's 56.66%. The sideboard is mostly cute but highly effective interaction. Instant speed 3/3 Paladin seems really good, especially when it bypasses all of Grixis control's blue answers to us.
Oh, also, you get to play 4 Horizon Canopy!! Turn 1 needs Green now for Commune, so just go ahead and slam those free card draws for when you're bricking. This will be slightly more recognizable, since Canopy is a known card in the UW versions; but it seems pretty worth it for when it comes up, and you still get to present as "not Cheeri0s" in most Game Ones with T1 Fetch-->Temple Garden.
Like all lists, this one has some room for tweaking: +/- 1 or 2 equipments, Noxious Revival numbers, maindecking some of the protection. An EOT Savage Summoning in Game 1 could really confuse someone even if they know the deck.
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
4 Retract
4 Mox Opal
1 Noxious Revival
1 Grapeshot
2 Spoils of the Vault
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
3 Sigil of Distinction
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
4 Uhhh
4 Stuff?
4 ....I Guess????
3 ...
This deck is way different, and it's doubtful anyone will peg you for Cheeri0s in game 1. Discard makes you very aggressive against the decks that are trying to interact with you. Everyone who came here today knowing that Cheeri0s is taking off? They're in for a world of hurt. Discard also allows you to protect your combo while still making proactive turn 1 plays AND curving into the Turn 2 kill. Swan Song requires you to wait until Turn 3. Discard also gives you perfect information. What could be more dangerous than the premier Turn 2 kill deck opening with knowledge of their opponent's hand and a head start on interaction??
And Spoils...oh boy, Spoils. Yes, it's bad. But it's not awful, in this list. Not as a 2-of emergency button. Not with 8 dudes massively reducing your need to use it. Always lead with dudes and recover (if needed) with Spoils, so that you've drawn more cards. Most of them time, this will be a mid-combo cast when you just can't find Retract in time. It's a very safe cast at that point, assuming your opponent hasn't led with Goblin Guide double Bolt your face. Spoils is bad, and entirely optional here; but it does provide a strong Turn 1 window alongside 6 discard spells. That's 8 things you can do on Turn 1, all proactive, all very powerful, all providing a perfect mana curve into a combo kill.
Optional tweaks here include: -1 or 2 Spoils NOT +Spoils; +1 Grapeshot if you keep Spoils in; +/- 1-2 Discard Spells (Duress is worse than IOK), or replacing 1-3 with Thoughseize; +1 MD Hurkyl's (I think my personal version currently has it over the second Duress); +1-3 Equipments, Sigil is actually really good here since your bricks will likely land on discard spells, rip their hand apart and start the grindy beatdown plan.
Do not add the second Plains. I know it's rough, especially with Polluted Delta not fetching the one Plains you do have. But with 6 discard spells, you really don't want to open on just Plains and be hoping for that topdeck fetch.
Also you may have noticed that there's no sideboard. I have no idea what to do in BW aside from discard, Silence, Paths.
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
4 Retract
4 Mox Opal
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Grapeshot
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Bone Saw
4 Sigil of Distinction
4 Rugged Prairie
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
Ok guys. This isn't exactly secret, several of you have been working on it. But I think this is approximately optimal.
This version is fast. No, really fast. No, you're not understanding. It's really, really fast. My first 2 games with it were a Turn 2 kill on the play and a turn 1 kill on a mull to 6. It's totally exposed, no protection. 13 lands works out fine, because you often jam Opal into dude turn 1. You can be reckless with Opals because SSG can cast your Grapeshot.
Cascade Bluffs is for filtering SSGs into Retracts and Recalls. You run AT LEAST 2 Recalls because SSG makes it so easy to use them mid-combo. That gives you between 6 and 8 Retract effects which is a level of broken that I can't begin to describe. It doesn't work in other versions; the 5th Retract is great but more Recalls get too heavy to support at 2cmc. SSG also makes it much easier to land 2+ dudes on turn 2 while comboing.
You very, very rarely brick. With 2 fewer lands getting in your way, SSG casting Recalls and Srams, 4 more Equipments than normal, and almost nothing but sleek combo, a turn that starts going gets there often.
This version is not great. It has no resilience. It has no way to dig. It has no interaction whatsoever outside of Affinity, and Infect decks that are about to kill you with Inkmoth. But if you want to play the absolute, no holds barred, fastest deck this format will ever see; here it is.
Options include: +4 Serum Powder; +1 Noxious Revival (I'm always always saying to run at least 2, but not in this build, it's just another brick too often); +1-2 Hurkyl's; -1-4 equipments; +1 Sideboard. The problem with all of these optional additions is that it's just so difficult to make room in this particular 60; all Cheeri0s decks are extremely tight on space, but this one is the most firm. The unusually high equipment count makes it smooth. The land count is carefully balanced to leverage the extra mana from SSG without leaving you stranded on Turn 1. The 6th Retract effect is crucial in keeping you from fizzling.
Well, that's this one. It's so super fast. And fragile. And difficult to tweak. Play this version if all you want out of this deck is to kill people before they finish shuffling, and you don't care about your overall win rate.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
Hurkyl's is excellent in the main. It boosts consistency and gives you maindeck outs to random artifacts. Definitely a big fan!
I'm done with 14 lands for now. It just didn't feel good on the mulligans, especially if you had 3 SV. 15 lands lets you trim to 3 down from 4 and improves your mulligan consistency. Also, the extra lands help in longer games where you really need to build mana.
There's no real drawback to running the Abzan lands because we aren't ever playing basic Islands in a deck with WW Puresteel. It's just a small edge in some matchups, especially if you're on the draw and you lead on Heath/Flats; it's much more likely people will drop removal shields against that kind of opener.
My big problem with Geist is the double block scenario. I find that most control/midrange decks are Grixis, and most of those are running Tasigurs and other proactive ways to close a game. Those critters become Geist blockers once we send him into the red. Moreover, he's definitely bad against BGx (Lily + double blocks are nightmares). I think if you're playing lots of Esper and Jeskai it's fine, but I generally just go +1 Outcome and +4 Silence against grindy blue decks.
-2 W/T and +2 Fragmentize is where I'm at; Frag is better during combo chains, but can be worse if you're tight on mana and need to answer something like Chalice or Moon during an opponent's turn. In my board, I also bounce between 3 ET and -1 ET for +1 W/T. The added versatility can be nice and help in tight spots against those Moon decks and decks with Spellskite + Eidolon of Rhetoric.
Level 1 JudgeModern:
WUR Eat a good breakfast, have some Cheeri0s!
C I've got an Affinity for running you over with artifacts
EDH:
G Ezuri
W Kemba
WUBRG Scion-spiracy (in progress)
Edit: The Cascade Bluffs, yes! My version of the 3rd deck has 15 lands, 2 Serum Visions, 1 Nox, 1 Hurkyl's, 1 Swan Song, and a lot fewer Cheeri0s, but I will be making tweaks and definitely removing lands. What can I say? I want turn 1 kills but I love live draws. Oh, and that BW version is going to Hurt Someone!!
All these have their own issues and inconsistencies. Modern in my meta is so fast that I'm not sure the slower disruptive route is the way to go. Not to mention lowering 0's imo seems rough. List one is cute but t1 you're basically giving them the free info and letting them hold up disruptive spells. Then list 3 to me seems like it mulls more than regular builds but I could be wrong. I'm sure they are all fun and usable but at what point is it just too cute to have some odd spells when the deck already fizzles as is sometimes. The second list states sometimes your opponent doesn't know what you're on g1, to me that implies you lost g1 lol. Bluffs is just a dead land t1 and can't cast paladin t2 so I'm fairly certain I wouldn't add it to my list.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
Cranial plating somewhere in the 75? It's an equipment, it's a decent plan-B. Anyone tried it? I like mentor but what if you didn't need mentor? Just an idea.
Although not quite as effective, but I run a single golem-skin gauntlets in my list and it has won me several games. Tactic is know when to play it in relation to the combo, such as playing retract etc.
Previously I have played lots of equipments but not quite managed to combo. Played gauntlets and attacked with an equipped paladin dealing a good amount of damage and then combo' don the following turn.
I think the major downside with cranial plating is the cost. Similarly, swiftfoot boots (which is a better card for this deck) doesn't appear in many lists.
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
They run about 6 less 0's than my list. I personally think the deck is all about speed. I went 3-1 tonight with my loss to jund. Most kills were t2/3 g1 so I don't personally see a need for the fancy things.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
I took the all in version for a spin and went 4-1 in a friendly modern league online. My only changes were to switch sigil with kite shield (toughening up puresteel seems better than occasionally paying mana to get more power on your guys). I went with a very basic sideboard:
4 Echoing Truth
3 Path to Exile
2 Noxious Revival
1 Marsh Flats
1 Favor of the Mighty
In general I would side out some number of Kite Shields, usually one or two. My basic thinking is that Revival is for grindy matchups as extra draw engines, echoing truth comes in if they have white mana, leyline comes in against thoughtseize et al, and path and favor of the mighty come in against burn.
Strategically I would mull until I got a draw engine and at least one mana. Using that rule I kept seven cards 6 times, six cards 4 times, and five cards once. I'm not sure how lucky that is. One nice thing about this build is that it's pretty much always right to go for it.
Overall, this deck is insanely fast. I did unlock a new achievement:
This is off a mull to 6 on the play.
My only match loss came from mana issues. In game one my only mana sources were a Rugged Prairie and Cascade Bluffs. In game two I pulled the bluffs for a Marsh Flats and wound up losing because I couldn't filter into blue mana while comboing off. I'm not sure which failure mode comes up more often but it seems they are both real things to worry about.
Also, just to emphasize: turn one Sram or Puresteel is absurd. If they can't deal with it then a turn two kill is fairly likely and a turn three kill a near certainty. It's kind of hilarious to catch yourself thinking "man I keep kind of fizzling and letting this game drag out" and then realizing you're still winning on turn 3.
On reflection I think some number of Silence belong in the sideboard as anti-burn tech. In general if you side out 3 or 4 equipment you wind up a similar build to the "standard" version of the deck after removing Serum Visions and Swan Song so you don't necessarily have to stay completely all in crazy in the post board games.