In fact, just the other day I won a game off of Turn 1 Glint Hawk, Turn 2 double Glint Hawk aggro + a random Lightning Helix against an aggro deck. It's racin' time
Has anyone considered Ojutai's Command in the side as a singleton? Might help against the removal heavy match-ups. Instant speed engine from the graveyard + countering a snapcaster or drawing into more cheeri0s might be the right ticket. It costs 4, but as a 1-of it shouldn't stress the mana-base too much.
Has anyone considered Ojutai's Command in the side as a singleton? Might help against the removal heavy match-ups. Instant speed engine from the graveyard + countering a snapcaster or drawing into more cheeri0s might be the right ticket. It costs 4, but as a 1-of it shouldn't stress the mana-base too much.
This is what Paradoxical Outcome is trying to do for the BGx matchups. Given there isn't always an engine in the yard (due to Path), being able to draw a lot of cards off Paradoxical seems slightly better to me (since usually at the point where you'd hit that SB slot you're just holding a bunch of Cheerios and waiting for something).
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I was thinking about that as well. Paradoxical Outcome is easier to cast and can draw some gas, but in my experience vs removal/discard heavy match-ups I am holding all of my opening cheeri0s anyhow, and I almost always have engines in the yard. With Abzan match-ups PO may be the best choice, but with jund/grixis Ojutai's Command may work better. Also, the instant speed resolution of an engine should come in handy at the end of their turn.
i don t like maverick. too inconsistent.
you create a bunch of little guys... and then? they still will be dead by tarmo
what is you suggest?
I don't find it inconsistent at all, but it does need to be supported in the right build (colours of mana, and you want to be digging pretty hard since thopters don't last long if your plan is to block).
Option 1: block till you find your combo engine then combo off
Option 2: run bone saw and sigil of distinction and a few golem-skin gauntlets and beat face with vigilant fliers. Note that the thopters are good with paradise mantle for additional mana.
It does run a slow clock and while my current testing is showing wins, it is showing wins by 1 turn faster than the opponent. If my opponents are actually misplaying (quite probable) then it could be that this is simply not viable.
Glint Hawk and Golem-skin Gauntlets is worth a try if you're lookin for more threats for beat down mode, but against Lili unless you have haste or generate multiple creatures in one play it's rough.
Glint hawk sits in that awkward spot of being really terrific value for money, but not actually being a threat: i.e. it is not a good topdeck. The substantial value-added with storm entity or monastery swiftspear, erayo, etc. make it pretty great in some builds.
On the one hand, I do think cantrips are the way to go in G1. It fits the format of every other decent Ux combo deck to-date, and is currently the most successful Cheeri0s version we've seen in our admittedly limited sample. It's also the clearest variance reducer at our disposal. This doesn't include a singleton (or maybe double) Riddlesmith. Smith is actually an engine that helps us win games. He's also better than Paladin against Chalice (cast trigger), and triggers off Opals. I think adding 1-2 might be correct, even at the expense of some number of SV/NR/GS.
On the other hand, I do think the idea of adding other threats (Inventor, Thopterist, Geist, Grid, etc.) is important in G2-G3, depending on the matchup. This is where my issue of sub-optimal sideboards comes back. I think most SBs are just really awkward right now and we need to figure out how to build them better. This will necessarily include deciding on threats vs. protection, and what particular cards of each to run.
I'm thinking a transformative sideboard is the way to go, with, say 10-12 cards dedicated to the really bad matchups. I don't like the idea of silver bulleting; we have enough trouble sculpting hands as-is.
So, at this point I think folks are generally happy with their mainboards (the general consensus seems to be only a few cards off, and that's usually a difference in two of land/cheerio/cantrip count, so it's not that big a difference).
At this point, I'd really like to start a larger discussion about sideboarding, since that seems to be the most nebulous thing right now (I know my sideboard feels very loose right now, and I'm sure I'm not the only one). Instead of trying to come up with 15 cards, I think the better method is identifying what we need for each matchup, and subsequently figuring out how many cards we want for those matchups. then we can try to consolidate. As an example:
Control: This matchup hinges on settling a threat through countermagic and holding it through the combo. Silence seems strongest here, as it allows you to hold the whole turn, but other 1 CMC countermagic/protection could be considered. Alternate threats which dodge their plans (such as Geist) are also options. Recommended cards: Silence, Geist, cheap countermagic (Dispel?).
Burn: Post-board, they're bringing in more spells which can hit creatures, as well as Eidolons if they're not already main. Protecting the combo is important, but dealing with Eidolon is critical as we actually can't win with it in play. Recommended cards: Echoing Truth, Path to Exile, Leyline?
BGx: Post-board, they're pretty much guaranteed to have either hand disruption or removal in their opener. We have two routes here: either go for a critical mass of threats to try and top their 1 for 1 spells or board in spells which put you back in the game at a moment's notice. Recommended board cards: Monastery Mentor (for the former plan), Paradoxical Outcome (for the latter plan), Silence (for both), Leyline?
Other decks: To be frank, in two weeks of live tournament play with the deck I haven't lost a match against any deck that wasn't one of the three archetypes above, and in almost all cases the matches against non-interactive decks were straight up rolls so boarding didn't matter too much. If we actually want to go into detail, though: if they're doing their own thing (Tron, Merfolk, Infect, Affinity, etc.) and can't interact, we're generally just faster than them. Expect some spot removal to come in, but generally they won't have too much against us. Recommended cards: Hurkyl's Recall (to help ensure we don't fizzle, especially since you'll likely have the extra turn where you have sufficient mana for it).
I also strongly recommend boarding in at least one Echoing Truth in most cases. Between Eidolons, Leylines, Chalices, and other random things, it's almost always worth bringing one in to hedge.
Curious what other cards people like for specific matchups (most notably for the three mentioned above, as those are the ones we need the most targeted cards for).
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Wear // Tear deals with the cards you quote in your paragraph about Echoing Truth. Unless you meet 2 copies of one of those cards... The problem I can see with Truth is that you must surely go off the same turn you bounce the permanent, which requires a "ton" of mana, considering you must hold your Sram / Paladin sometimes, and be ready to cast a Grapeshot later in that very same turn. Seeing how much this deck fizzles when you have only 1 Bear on the battlefield, Truth might not be enough, and a split with sthg else be appropriate.
As cheap countermagic, Swan Song sees a lot of play already.
For the Burn MU, Kor Firewalker could be a thing in place of leylines. It's obvious for the Burn player to rely on creatures post-board anyway. T1 creature is always their best start, and they'll try to keep a hand that does that. A problem I see with leylines too is that the card isn't proactive, it doesn't help you win, it only buys time.
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Wear // Tear deals with the cards you quote in your paragraph about Echoing Truth. Unless you meet 2 copies of one of those cards... The problem I can see with Truth is that you must surely go off the same turn you bounce the permanent, which requires a "ton" of mana, considering you must hold your Sram / Paladin sometimes, and be ready to cast a Grapeshot later in that very same turn. Seeing how much this deck fizzles when you have only 1 Bear on the battlefield, Truth might not be enough, and a split with sthg else be appropriate.
I've been splitting between Echoing Truth and Fragmentize these days. Truth is good as a catchall and against decks where you know you'll be running into concentrated hate (e.g. multiple Stony Silences). That said, Fragmentize is easier on your mana during a combo turn and hits basically everything Truth hits. Just to name some cards I've needed to remove with either:
Etc. Notably, Fragmentize is easy to cast with Moon out (we fetch basic Plains in those games) whereas Truth demands an Opal. Truth gets higher marks for being instant-speed (more surprising, easier on the mana during non-combo turns) and for helping against non-artifact/enchantment threats. Hence the split.
Re: Leyline
When you actually have Leyline of Sanctity in the BGx matchup, it's spectacular and hard to stop. Most BGx players board in the Collective Brutality and Kolaghan's Command extras from the SB, which means Leyline shuts down TS, IoK, Lily, and any MD Brutality and Command they have. That's easily 12+ cards, and it quickly turns snap-keep Jund hands into useless piles. That said, it does make your mulligans worse. If you do use Leyline, you need to be playing a build with SV in it too and you need to not board out your SVs. This greatly increases the number of keepable hands, because you can keep 7 card hands with mana, SV, and Leyline and no engine, in addition to obvious keeps of mana, engine, and Leyline. In addition to nullifying those 12+ BGx slots, Leyline also slows the game down by preventing Bolts, Commands, and Brutalities to the face. Between that slow-down and the shutdown of so many slots, Leyline can buy you multiple turns to draw into engines and/or other threats/protection. This is why I'm still using them.
I'd only ditch Leyline if we found a reliable proactive threat that didn't die to Terminate and stacked Bolts/Commands/Brutality (no Enraged Giant), doesn't get sacrificed to Lily (no Bastion Inventor), and doesn't fall to double-blocks (no Giant, Inventor, or Geist of Saint Traft). Grid is close, but it's so hard to control 4/5 or 5/6 Goyfs with a Grid that you end up losing races.
Todd and Tom discuss the deck after the games. They hit on a few good points. The cheerios list they play doesn't appear optimal but it's still good to showcase the power and consistency.
If we are talking about fragmentize I think Wear/Tear is better:
Pros over fragmentize: It´s an instant.
Can destroy 1 mana chalice of void
Can kill two targets (Rare to use)
The annoying thing with Wear // Tear is the two-mana casting cost. This makes it hard to cast during a combo turn. I also don't love that it costs R instead of W. This means you need to fetch Foundry as your 2nd or 3rd land and can't cast it off Coast/Fountain at all. It's definitely not bad and I did test it for a while, but I didn't like the cost at all.
Also and correct me if I wrong, Spellskite is not a problem for that deck because he must pay for each copy of grapeshot. (Or it has only to pay once for the storm ability???)
Spellskite doesn't stop Grapeshot unless they have a lot of blue mana. It stops you from removing Abzan Company/Chord/Evolution creatures. You see this line a lot on MTGO in that matchup: in one turn, they get Eidolon of Rhetoric, and in the next, they get Spellskite to protect Eidolon. That said, Wear // Tear is actually better here because you can Tear the Eidolon and Spellskite can't even redirect it.
So, I believe that if you sideboard fragmentize we use sideboard Wear/Tear instead.
It's a mana question more than anything else. I've tried Fragmentize, Truth, and W/T for a while and all have their pros and cons. I really do like W/T and I think if you look back a few pages you'll see my SB using it. That said, there are things I really don't like about it (cost and red mana requirement), so I see arguments both ways.
So if finally Spellskite isn´t a problem, it means that almost all of threats are enchantment, and this means that you are going to cast Wear/Tear most of ocasions for 1 mana, and INSTANT velocity.
Well, you forget the scariest SB card of all: Chalice. Fragmentize is more efficient at removing it than W/T. Truth is actually a little better than either, however, because you'll rarely see Chalice at 2 but could definitely see an opponent drop a Chalice at 0 and another at 1. If you are seeing more Chalice at 2, then Fragmentize is where you want to be. I tend to board in a mix against Chalice decks, just in case.
Maybe you are right respect the mana. But also is rare the occasion when we need two blue mana, I mean two retract means that you are in the sugar rush and that means that almost 99,99% of ocasions you are going to use opal. ( I guess that i could be missing other concrete ocasions when we need these 2 blue manas).
Wear is worse than Fragmentize and Truth when they have Chalice at 0 out. This means your only way to cast Wear is with Foundry, since you can't even resolve an Opal to begin with. This locks you into bad situations where you can't T1 Visions because you need the fetch to get a Foundry and Fountain/Coast can't cast Wear at all.
I honestly think the solution to this is to go the silver bullet, Frank Karsten route and just run a mix of all of the above. Something like a 2-1-1 split between any of Truth/Fragmentize/WearTear. This gives you lots of outs to Chalice and respects all the corner cases where one is better than the other.
First, I wanted to say thanks to everyone for the abundance of contributions to this thread lately.
I recently sleeved up the deck (had to rebuy into Opals, equipment was cheap and managed to get Retract before the spike) and I've been goldfishing it a decent amount.
I know I'm coming in to this discussion with a lot of prior art, and to quote Erlich Bachman on Silicon Valley I probably "just brought piss to a ***** fight" with my thoughts.
1) Part of me wants to run at least a singleton Muddle the Mixture. It's relevant against removal even if double blue is tough, and it's a 9th copy of Sram/Paladin in a pinch if the game goes long for some reason.
2) I tried Riddlesmith and wasn't a fan. I think it's solid if you want to get 2 guys online since draw 2/discard 1 isn't horrible, but by himself he can't really turn things on since you'll often discard too much in the process. Tried him as a 2-of.
3) I've been trying a double Revival/single Grapheshot list (everything else is more or less the same as other lists barring disagreement over Sigil). The reason for this, and one of my big concerns of this deck, is that it's really a 3 card combo you need to hit multiple times: Sram/Paladin + Opal + Retract. Since both Retract and Opal can end up in the yard trying to go off, I think a second Revival is a better option for consistency.
4) I'm having Vietnam flashbacks to bad Infect mulligans with this deck, where you really need to mull to a hand with a Sram/Paladin it seems. I think it's just a consistency thing since it's a very all-in combo, but I still get a major case of the feels bad mans when mulliganing repeatedly.
5) I have a bad feeling about playing this deck in my local meta since lately it's been a pretty heavy combination of interactive decks (BGx/Spirits/Grixis) and Burn. I don't know how much the deck can be insulated on these matchups via the sideboard.
EDIT: just found 3 (!!!) pieces of equipment that slipped under my monitor stand that were missing from my deck. Guess I better throw some of that testing out the window.
Hey guys, long term lurker first time caller here.. as with everyone I've been experimenting with the sideboard to combat the problematic BGx/control matchups.
1. Bastion Inventor has been overperforming for me vs control. the Jeskai/Esper/UW/Grixis control/Grixis Delver decks simply do not have good answers to a t1-t3 inventor aside from tasigur and forces them to play the rest of the game differently (digging for whatever verdict effects/snap-cryptic chains with cantrips rather than hold up answers for our engines which still exist). I haven't played Inventors vs Abzan/Jund and honestly am not sure if it's worth it there, as LotV ruins it and goyf generally stonewalls it. Given the metagame share of BGx I'm not sure Inventor is worth it in a large GP field even though it does very well in the control matchups
2. Aether Grid - I tested this but was unimpressed. I don't think it does nearly as much vs control (too slow) and Jund/Abzan can outsize it quickly with goyf/rhino/4 drops. The decks it's good vs like infect/affinity we're already favored against, although I think it'd be very useful vs burn. What are everyone's experiences with the grid?
3. Geist - feels like it'd be the same as Inventor except it needs a +3 equipment to swing in safely most of the times. Doesn't seem it.
4. Paradoxical - been a bomb vs BGx and should be a part of all of our anti-BGx gameplans, imo
Some ideas I had that I'd love your thoughts on
4. Nahiri - On the theme of attacking people on a different axis.. Cannot be terminated/path'd, cannot be snared, has the ability to potentially remove problematic permanents (2xEidolons, leylines, stony silence, Canonist, blood moon), digs for engine as needed. Thoughs on this, perhaps as a +2 Nahiri/+1 emrakul package?
5. Thoughtcast/reverse engineer - nice in theory but I would think pure threat density would be better
6. Mentor - theoretically it seems too likely to eat a path/bolt/terminate and only produce a monk as with all of our engines
7. Favor of the Mighty - seems great in theory. Anyone have any successful anecdotes with these?
8. GIdeon, Ally of Zendikar - Again on the theme of attacking from a different axis but seems like it's too slow for what it does.
"My blade slices the air, sakura petals scatter, crimson blossoms appear on the ground..."
Autumn, the season of the Harvest and Falling Leaves... Song of an unreachable dream...
Since we are on the subject of different sideboard options/ approaches, can I bring upAltar of the Brood?
I just don't see how Altar of the Brood helps us in any match-up, let alone ones where we need sideboard support. Even though we play, bounce, replay a lot of permanents, I still don't think it would be enough to actually mill out the opponent.
So, at this point I think folks are generally happy with their mainboards (the general consensus seems to be only a few cards off, and that's usually a difference in two of land/cheerio/cantrip count, so it's not that big a difference).
At this point, I'd really like to start a larger discussion about sideboarding, since that seems to be the most nebulous thing right now (I know my sideboard feels very loose right now, and I'm sure I'm not the only one). Instead of trying to come up with 15 cards, I think the better method is identifying what we need for each matchup, and subsequently figuring out how many cards we want for those matchups. then we can try to consolidate. As an example:
Control: This matchup hinges on settling a threat through countermagic and holding it through the combo. Silence seems strongest here, as it allows you to hold the whole turn, but other 1 CMC countermagic/protection could be considered. Alternate threats which dodge their plans (such as Geist) are also options. Recommended cards: Silence, Geist, cheap countermagic (Dispel?).
Burn: Post-board, they're bringing in more spells which can hit creatures, as well as Eidolons if they're not already main. Protecting the combo is important, but dealing with Eidolon is critical as we actually can't win with it in play. Recommended cards: Echoing Truth, Path to Exile, Leyline?
BGx: Post-board, they're pretty much guaranteed to have either hand disruption or removal in their opener. We have two routes here: either go for a critical mass of threats to try and top their 1 for 1 spells or board in spells which put you back in the game at a moment's notice. Recommended board cards: Monastery Mentor (for the former plan), Paradoxical Outcome (for the latter plan), Silence (for both), Leyline?
Other decks: To be frank, in two weeks of live tournament play with the deck I haven't lost a match against any deck that wasn't one of the three archetypes above, and in almost all cases the matches against non-interactive decks were straight up rolls so boarding didn't matter too much. If we actually want to go into detail, though: if they're doing their own thing (Tron, Merfolk, Infect, Affinity, etc.) and can't interact, we're generally just faster than them. Expect some spot removal to come in, but generally they won't have too much against us. Recommended cards: Hurkyl's Recall (to help ensure we don't fizzle, especially since you'll likely have the extra turn where you have sufficient mana for it).
I also strongly recommend boarding in at least one Echoing Truth in most cases. Between Eidolons, Leylines, Chalices, and other random things, it's almost always worth bringing one in to hedge.
Curious what other cards people like for specific matchups (most notably for the three mentioned above, as those are the ones we need the most targeted cards for).
So if 3 matchups are our issue we just find the best cards for those matchups. This brings me to my 4 silence, 3 fragmentize, and 4 leyline. I bing leyline in only vs gbx with some amount of silence. Burn wants to throw spells at my face that's fine it's a boom or bust matchup so I only bring in silence/frag, and control I only bring in silence. As you stated almost every other matchup is perfectly fine (yeah you need to be smart about your plays) and almost always a win game 1. This leaves me with 4 spots in my board to us for 3 path and 1 maniac vs creatures decks like Thalia/inf life. No I don't worry too Mitch about double problem cards eidolon/double chalice on 0, some games you're just not meant to win.
-cavern of souls. 4x maindeck. every U based deck became just a bay. i played against uw and bant spirit. i won, but only thanks to cavern.
Genuinely baffled by this. What are you naming? Sram and Puresteel don't share a type. Also, if it's a Spirits build, it's worth calling out that Queller exiles; it doesn't counter.
Pls that's so obvious that Datka is running it maindeck.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
This is what Paradoxical Outcome is trying to do for the BGx matchups. Given there isn't always an engine in the yard (due to Path), being able to draw a lot of cards off Paradoxical seems slightly better to me (since usually at the point where you'd hit that SB slot you're just holding a bunch of Cheerios and waiting for something).
Level 1 JudgeModern:
WUR Eat a good breakfast, have some Cheeri0s!
C I've got an Affinity for running you over with artifacts
EDH:
G Ezuri
W Kemba
WUBRG Scion-spiracy (in progress)
I don't find it inconsistent at all, but it does need to be supported in the right build (colours of mana, and you want to be digging pretty hard since thopters don't last long if your plan is to block).
Option 1: block till you find your combo engine then combo off
Option 2: run bone saw and sigil of distinction and a few golem-skin gauntlets and beat face with vigilant fliers. Note that the thopters are good with paradise mantle for additional mana.
It does run a slow clock and while my current testing is showing wins, it is showing wins by 1 turn faster than the opponent. If my opponents are actually misplaying (quite probable) then it could be that this is simply not viable.
Glint hawk sits in that awkward spot of being really terrific value for money, but not actually being a threat: i.e. it is not a good topdeck. The substantial value-added with storm entity or monastery swiftspear, erayo, etc. make it pretty great in some builds.
I'm thinking a transformative sideboard is the way to go, with, say 10-12 cards dedicated to the really bad matchups. I don't like the idea of silver bulleting; we have enough trouble sculpting hands as-is.
At this point, I'd really like to start a larger discussion about sideboarding, since that seems to be the most nebulous thing right now (I know my sideboard feels very loose right now, and I'm sure I'm not the only one). Instead of trying to come up with 15 cards, I think the better method is identifying what we need for each matchup, and subsequently figuring out how many cards we want for those matchups. then we can try to consolidate. As an example:
Control: This matchup hinges on settling a threat through countermagic and holding it through the combo. Silence seems strongest here, as it allows you to hold the whole turn, but other 1 CMC countermagic/protection could be considered. Alternate threats which dodge their plans (such as Geist) are also options. Recommended cards: Silence, Geist, cheap countermagic (Dispel?).
Burn: Post-board, they're bringing in more spells which can hit creatures, as well as Eidolons if they're not already main. Protecting the combo is important, but dealing with Eidolon is critical as we actually can't win with it in play. Recommended cards: Echoing Truth, Path to Exile, Leyline?
BGx: Post-board, they're pretty much guaranteed to have either hand disruption or removal in their opener. We have two routes here: either go for a critical mass of threats to try and top their 1 for 1 spells or board in spells which put you back in the game at a moment's notice. Recommended board cards: Monastery Mentor (for the former plan), Paradoxical Outcome (for the latter plan), Silence (for both), Leyline?
Other decks: To be frank, in two weeks of live tournament play with the deck I haven't lost a match against any deck that wasn't one of the three archetypes above, and in almost all cases the matches against non-interactive decks were straight up rolls so boarding didn't matter too much. If we actually want to go into detail, though: if they're doing their own thing (Tron, Merfolk, Infect, Affinity, etc.) and can't interact, we're generally just faster than them. Expect some spot removal to come in, but generally they won't have too much against us. Recommended cards: Hurkyl's Recall (to help ensure we don't fizzle, especially since you'll likely have the extra turn where you have sufficient mana for it).
I also strongly recommend boarding in at least one Echoing Truth in most cases. Between Eidolons, Leylines, Chalices, and other random things, it's almost always worth bringing one in to hedge.
Curious what other cards people like for specific matchups (most notably for the three mentioned above, as those are the ones we need the most targeted cards for).
Level 1 JudgeModern:
WUR Eat a good breakfast, have some Cheeri0s!
C I've got an Affinity for running you over with artifacts
EDH:
G Ezuri
W Kemba
WUBRG Scion-spiracy (in progress)
As cheap countermagic, Swan Song sees a lot of play already.
For the Burn MU, Kor Firewalker could be a thing in place of leylines. It's obvious for the Burn player to rely on creatures post-board anyway. T1 creature is always their best start, and they'll try to keep a hand that does that. A problem I see with leylines too is that the card isn't proactive, it doesn't help you win, it only buys time.
I've been splitting between Echoing Truth and Fragmentize these days. Truth is good as a catchall and against decks where you know you'll be running into concentrated hate (e.g. multiple Stony Silences). That said, Fragmentize is easier on your mana during a combo turn and hits basically everything Truth hits. Just to name some cards I've needed to remove with either:
Etc. Notably, Fragmentize is easy to cast with Moon out (we fetch basic Plains in those games) whereas Truth demands an Opal. Truth gets higher marks for being instant-speed (more surprising, easier on the mana during non-combo turns) and for helping against non-artifact/enchantment threats. Hence the split.
Re: Leyline
When you actually have Leyline of Sanctity in the BGx matchup, it's spectacular and hard to stop. Most BGx players board in the Collective Brutality and Kolaghan's Command extras from the SB, which means Leyline shuts down TS, IoK, Lily, and any MD Brutality and Command they have. That's easily 12+ cards, and it quickly turns snap-keep Jund hands into useless piles. That said, it does make your mulligans worse. If you do use Leyline, you need to be playing a build with SV in it too and you need to not board out your SVs. This greatly increases the number of keepable hands, because you can keep 7 card hands with mana, SV, and Leyline and no engine, in addition to obvious keeps of mana, engine, and Leyline. In addition to nullifying those 12+ BGx slots, Leyline also slows the game down by preventing Bolts, Commands, and Brutalities to the face. Between that slow-down and the shutdown of so many slots, Leyline can buy you multiple turns to draw into engines and/or other threats/protection. This is why I'm still using them.
I'd only ditch Leyline if we found a reliable proactive threat that didn't die to Terminate and stacked Bolts/Commands/Brutality (no Enraged Giant), doesn't get sacrificed to Lily (no Bastion Inventor), and doesn't fall to double-blocks (no Giant, Inventor, or Geist of Saint Traft). Grid is close, but it's so hard to control 4/5 or 5/6 Goyfs with a Grid that you end up losing races.
Todd and Tom discuss the deck after the games. They hit on a few good points. The cheerios list they play doesn't appear optimal but it's still good to showcase the power and consistency.
The annoying thing with Wear // Tear is the two-mana casting cost. This makes it hard to cast during a combo turn. I also don't love that it costs R instead of W. This means you need to fetch Foundry as your 2nd or 3rd land and can't cast it off Coast/Fountain at all. It's definitely not bad and I did test it for a while, but I didn't like the cost at all.
Spellskite doesn't stop Grapeshot unless they have a lot of blue mana. It stops you from removing Abzan Company/Chord/Evolution creatures. You see this line a lot on MTGO in that matchup: in one turn, they get Eidolon of Rhetoric, and in the next, they get Spellskite to protect Eidolon. That said, Wear // Tear is actually better here because you can Tear the Eidolon and Spellskite can't even redirect it.
It's a mana question more than anything else. I've tried Fragmentize, Truth, and W/T for a while and all have their pros and cons. I really do like W/T and I think if you look back a few pages you'll see my SB using it. That said, there are things I really don't like about it (cost and red mana requirement), so I see arguments both ways.
Well, you forget the scariest SB card of all: Chalice. Fragmentize is more efficient at removing it than W/T. Truth is actually a little better than either, however, because you'll rarely see Chalice at 2 but could definitely see an opponent drop a Chalice at 0 and another at 1. If you are seeing more Chalice at 2, then Fragmentize is where you want to be. I tend to board in a mix against Chalice decks, just in case.
Wear is worse than Fragmentize and Truth when they have Chalice at 0 out. This means your only way to cast Wear is with Foundry, since you can't even resolve an Opal to begin with. This locks you into bad situations where you can't T1 Visions because you need the fetch to get a Foundry and Fountain/Coast can't cast Wear at all.
I honestly think the solution to this is to go the silver bullet, Frank Karsten route and just run a mix of all of the above. Something like a 2-1-1 split between any of Truth/Fragmentize/WearTear. This gives you lots of outs to Chalice and respects all the corner cases where one is better than the other.
I recently sleeved up the deck (had to rebuy into Opals, equipment was cheap and managed to get Retract before the spike) and I've been goldfishing it a decent amount.
I know I'm coming in to this discussion with a lot of prior art, and to quote Erlich Bachman on Silicon Valley I probably "just brought piss to a ***** fight" with my thoughts.
1) Part of me wants to run at least a singleton Muddle the Mixture. It's relevant against removal even if double blue is tough, and it's a 9th copy of Sram/Paladin in a pinch if the game goes long for some reason.
2) I tried Riddlesmith and wasn't a fan. I think it's solid if you want to get 2 guys online since draw 2/discard 1 isn't horrible, but by himself he can't really turn things on since you'll often discard too much in the process. Tried him as a 2-of.
3) I've been trying a double Revival/single Grapheshot list (everything else is more or less the same as other lists barring disagreement over Sigil). The reason for this, and one of my big concerns of this deck, is that it's really a 3 card combo you need to hit multiple times: Sram/Paladin + Opal + Retract. Since both Retract and Opal can end up in the yard trying to go off, I think a second Revival is a better option for consistency.
4) I'm having Vietnam flashbacks to bad Infect mulligans with this deck, where you really need to mull to a hand with a Sram/Paladin it seems. I think it's just a consistency thing since it's a very all-in combo, but I still get a major case of the feels bad mans when mulliganing repeatedly.
5) I have a bad feeling about playing this deck in my local meta since lately it's been a pretty heavy combination of interactive decks (BGx/Spirits/Grixis) and Burn. I don't know how much the deck can be insulated on these matchups via the sideboard.
EDIT: just found 3 (!!!) pieces of equipment that slipped under my monitor stand that were missing from my deck. Guess I better throw some of that testing out the window.
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1. Bastion Inventor has been overperforming for me vs control. the Jeskai/Esper/UW/Grixis control/Grixis Delver decks simply do not have good answers to a t1-t3 inventor aside from tasigur and forces them to play the rest of the game differently (digging for whatever verdict effects/snap-cryptic chains with cantrips rather than hold up answers for our engines which still exist). I haven't played Inventors vs Abzan/Jund and honestly am not sure if it's worth it there, as LotV ruins it and goyf generally stonewalls it. Given the metagame share of BGx I'm not sure Inventor is worth it in a large GP field even though it does very well in the control matchups
2. Aether Grid - I tested this but was unimpressed. I don't think it does nearly as much vs control (too slow) and Jund/Abzan can outsize it quickly with goyf/rhino/4 drops. The decks it's good vs like infect/affinity we're already favored against, although I think it'd be very useful vs burn. What are everyone's experiences with the grid?
3. Geist - feels like it'd be the same as Inventor except it needs a +3 equipment to swing in safely most of the times. Doesn't seem it.
4. Paradoxical - been a bomb vs BGx and should be a part of all of our anti-BGx gameplans, imo
Some ideas I had that I'd love your thoughts on
4. Nahiri - On the theme of attacking people on a different axis.. Cannot be terminated/path'd, cannot be snared, has the ability to potentially remove problematic permanents (2xEidolons, leylines, stony silence, Canonist, blood moon), digs for engine as needed. Thoughs on this, perhaps as a +2 Nahiri/+1 emrakul package?
5. Thoughtcast/reverse engineer - nice in theory but I would think pure threat density would be better
6. Mentor - theoretically it seems too likely to eat a path/bolt/terminate and only produce a monk as with all of our engines
7. Favor of the Mighty - seems great in theory. Anyone have any successful anecdotes with these?
8. GIdeon, Ally of Zendikar - Again on the theme of attacking from a different axis but seems like it's too slow for what it does.
Cheers
Standard:
BWB/R Eldrazi AggroBR
Modern:
UMerfolkU
"My blade slices the air, sakura petals scatter, crimson blossoms appear on the ground..."
Autumn, the season of the Harvest and Falling Leaves...
Song of an unreachable dream...
I just don't see how Altar of the Brood helps us in any match-up, let alone ones where we need sideboard support. Even though we play, bounce, replay a lot of permanents, I still don't think it would be enough to actually mill out the opponent.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
http://f2fseries.facetofacegames.com/facetofacegames-com-toronto-open-coverage-february-4th-2017/
The deck list is pretty standard. 1 grapeshot and 1 sigil of distinction.
Sideboard is 4 Monastery Mentor, and 3 thoughcast. Also 1 void snare and no echoing truth.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
So if 3 matchups are our issue we just find the best cards for those matchups. This brings me to my 4 silence, 3 fragmentize, and 4 leyline. I bing leyline in only vs gbx with some amount of silence. Burn wants to throw spells at my face that's fine it's a boom or bust matchup so I only bring in silence/frag, and control I only bring in silence. As you stated almost every other matchup is perfectly fine (yeah you need to be smart about your plays) and almost always a win game 1. This leaves me with 4 spots in my board to us for 3 path and 1 maniac vs creatures decks like Thalia/inf life. No I don't worry too Mitch about double problem cards eidolon/double chalice on 0, some games you're just not meant to win.
Genuinely baffled by this. What are you naming? Sram and Puresteel don't share a type. Also, if it's a Spirits build, it's worth calling out that Queller exiles; it doesn't counter.
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