I agree with you, Ephara is slow. She has no Etb and costs 4cmc. Those two things are the hallmarks by which we evaluate if a creature is playable in our deck.
That said, I personally think that Ephara is good against more than just control. My main point, however, for advocating in Ephara's favour was that she can be a hard to remove threat that generates consistant card advantage without relying on our graveyard. Against the right matchups that alone is backbreaking. You have convinced me regarding her playability in the mainboard but I have a clear bias towards her so I may still slot her in the sideboard from time to time.
Ephara isn't bad per se, but we generate card advantage in other ways. We also play a lot of sweepers, so the Devotion count could be challenging. I feel like she'd shine more in a mid-range deck with lots of Flash creatures, where you could potentially be taking advantage of her ability on your opponent's turn as well. UW Spirits seems like a reasonable place to play her.
Anyway, moving on. Who here has played against the new build of merfolk? It feels like the matchup has gotten much worse for us. I've played it four seperate times now, and while I've won, its been through the skin of my teeth. Just going Kumena's Speaker into Merfolk Branchwalker and then playing an islandwalking lord represents 7 unblockable damage. Which in turn allows merfolk to commit less to the board, allowing them to rebuild after 1 - 2 Verdicts. Also D-Sphere being hit by Natural State is an issue.
I don't actually feel this matchup is any worse than the classic mono-blue builds. They're a bit faster, but they don't have the singular overpowering threat of Master of Waves. We still want as many Verdicts as possible, though.
Let me explain my reasoning. In our game 2 of my most recent match I was on the draw. I have an opener of Wall, SS, D-Sphere, Verdict and lands . That's a pretty resonable hand. Anyway my opponent opens up with Kumena's Speaker I go fetch pass. My opponent plays Merfolk Branchwalker scrying a lord to the top. I take 2 and fetch for 1 so I'm at 17. Next turn I play wall pass. My opponent plays their lord and hits for 7, I'm at 10. I tap out to play D-Sphere, taking Branchwalker. My opponent destroys it with Natural State, plays a second lord and hits me for 12. Killing me through interaction before I can cast Verdict. That was a lucky but not unreasonable hand from Merfolk, they just happened to have a sideboard card.
Yeah, that was a perfect curve from their deck, with a bit of spot removal that ordinarily wouldn't pass muster for them. I don't know that Spreading Seas is good in that matchup, though I suppose it's not abysmal. Having other creature removal like Blessed Alliance might have helped.
Something to keep in mind is that we are basically almost the designated prey for that sort of deck: they're an aggro deck which specifically plays better when their opponents' use Islands. For that reason, our only plan of action is to stall into Verdict. Life gain can actually be better than blocking for that reason.
Yeah, I can see that. The cards that I leaned on the most to win that matchup were Lone Missionary, Path and Verdict. Blessed Alliance is a good suggestion but I may just play Kami of False Hope if I want to stick it to Merfolk. Your right SS is terrible against Merfolk I actually boarded out three, and a Crucible. I only have a few cards to board into for the matchup, as I think, even though I believe it's gotten worse, we are still favoured overall.
yo!! long time lurker first time poster. i landed on gifts some time ago as well. lately i've also been jamming 4x gideon of the trials and 2x resto- they're good i tell you hwhat. anyways here's my two cents on gifts/resto: aside from assembling the infinite combo you can go plains, fetch, hallowed fountain, prairie stream. i don't know if i've ever passed on turn four with resto + gifts in hand and lost. Obv these cards aren't good against combo or tron but they swap out easily with negate, runed halo and spreading seas, feel me? the only regret i have is that ojutai's command gets squeezed out of the 4-drop slot. as for gideon he's great after a wall of omens and before a supreme verdict. this synergy is essentially the driving force behind the recent upswing in u/w control. they get to play spell queller and we get to reanimate gideon A LOT. anyways can't figure out how to hyperlink on my phone so sorry about that!!!
Yeah, hyperlink and other functionality is much easier to find on a desktop.
Gideon of the Trials is a card many of us have adopted; it's pretty good all-around. Restoration Angel is something that we've tried, and is not a very popular pick but isn't that out of the ordinary either. It's CMC=4, but it's flash, adds value, and is decently sized enough to do good work. Usually, people who only play 3 total Sun Titan + Elspeth, Sun's Champion will include 1-2 copies of Resto.
As for Gifts Ungiven, this is a card that got a lot of experimentation combined with Unburial Rites two or three years ago. It's not a bad card, but it really does feel like a very different deck/build than the traditional Sun Titan- and Emeria-based approaches we center on here.
yeah i can see that the association with unburial rites and past in flames decks makes gifts look like a bad fit but i've found that with gideon blanking the opponent's biggest threat and one or two walls out, i often want to slow roll on supreme verdict/d sphere and gifts solves the problem of what to do on turns 4-8 when you're waiting for emeria to come online.
I know you guys are less keen on the GW variety, and its probably incorrect to not run Renegade Rallier at all, but I found when using it that in the games it was good I was already far ahead, and when I was behind it was a miserable. Nissa has been exceptional, a real game winner when she drops, animating a land or getting back a permanent to be recast is super useful.
Does anyone have any helpful advice to make this more competitive. I ran the "stock" GW Rallier Emeria build through an MTGO league and just got absolutely wrecked so I'm experimenting!
Edit: Does anyone have any thoughts about Bishop of Rebirth as potential Sun Titan's 5-8?
Edit 2: Super corner case I know, but Wheel of Sun and Moon targeting yourself against a mill deck is absolutely hilarious.
yeah i can see that the association with unburial rites and past in flames decks makes gifts look like a bad fit but i've found that with gideon blanking the opponent's biggest threat and one or two walls out, i often want to slow roll on supreme verdict/d sphere and gifts solves the problem of what to do on turns 4-8 when you're waiting for emeria to come online.
I actually wasn't considering PiF at all. Gifts Ungiven was evaluated a long time ago in the deck on it's own merit. It was incorporated into the build with Unburial Rites as a way to accelerate Sun Titan. People also used it as a way to tutor up Wrath by getting Verdict/Wrath/Day/Damnation.
As far as what to do on turns 4-8? I find casting more cantrips and Sun Titan to be pretty good.
I know you guys are less keen on the GW variety, and its probably incorrect to not run Renegade Rallier at all, but I found when using it that in the games it was good I was already far ahead, and when I was behind it was a miserable. Nissa has been exceptional, a real game winner when she drops, animating a land or getting back a permanent to be recast is super useful.
Does anyone have any helpful advice to make this more competitive. I ran the "stock" GW Rallier Emeria build through an MTGO league and just got absolutely wrecked so I'm experimenting!
Edit: Does anyone have any thoughts about Bishop of Rebirth as potential Sun Titan's 5-8?
Edit 2: Super corner case I know, but Wheel of Sun and Moon targeting yourself against a mill deck is absolutely hilarious.
It's definitely different than other Green-using builds I've seen of the deck. I'm not crazy about Visionary over the last Wall of Omens, since we're really not positioned to be aggressive and the Wall is better defensively. I also definitely like Sakura Tribe Elder more than Ranger. Nissa VF isn't great: Sun Titans and Emeria basically recur all of our permanents anyway. Eternal Witness could let us get spells, and be recurred itself though (Wrath + Witness + Emeria = infinite Wraths). Primeval Titan is nice, as it accelerates Emeria and finds GQs which can the combine with Sun Titan for a lockout. I'm not sure it doesn't overload the high mana, but it's pretty cool.
Bishop of Rebirth is limited in that it can only return creatures, has no cast trigger, and is far weaker. If I wanted more things in the 5-6 range, I'd be thinking about PWs and more Titans.
Wheel of Sun and Moon is one of the best answers to graveyard-strategies as well, since it's one-sided. Might be worth playing in the SB regardless.
in a matchup where we need multiple ghost quarters are we hoping to wait until turn six to start blowing up lands hoping that our opponent mulligans a lot?
Well, I guess you can completely sabotage your development by sacrificing them over and over. But I guess it's worthwhile against Tron. This is really why I play blue, though: Spreading Seas does most of that job.
I agree, one big payoff IMO from playing green is Ramunap Excivator. Steve isn't stricktly necessary in this build because you're not trying to trigger revolt. Have you tested Voice of Resurgance or Evolutionary Leap yet though? When I was playing G/W those cards were integral. I guess it's highly meta dependant though.
Also played Storm recently and went 2 - 0 again. It can be done, just very...very unlikely in G1.
I've tried a Renegade Rallier build using Oath of Nissa with Excavator in the board for the Tron matchup, I didn't see Tron so never got the chance to try it out. That build was admittedly not optimised at all, it wasn't until I lost to Sun and Moon that I realised I had no maindeck ways to beat a Walker (bad deck building on my part).
With Oath my biggest issue was cycling away wraths to the bottom of my deck, I was contemplating a wrath on a stick to counter that, maybe Cataclysmic Gearhulk but it just seems... Bad. The only other one I can think of is Magus of the Disk which seems even weaker.
I've budgeted 3 MTGO friendly leagues for December in which I'll be running GW Emeria, I'll let everyone know how I get on and which build I went for.
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That said, I personally think that Ephara is good against more than just control. My main point, however, for advocating in Ephara's favour was that she can be a hard to remove threat that generates consistant card advantage without relying on our graveyard. Against the right matchups that alone is backbreaking. You have convinced me regarding her playability in the mainboard but I have a clear bias towards her so I may still slot her in the sideboard from time to time.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Something to keep in mind is that we are basically almost the designated prey for that sort of deck: they're an aggro deck which specifically plays better when their opponents' use Islands. For that reason, our only plan of action is to stall into Verdict. Life gain can actually be better than blocking for that reason.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Welcome to the club
Yeah, hyperlink and other functionality is much easier to find on a desktop.
Gideon of the Trials is a card many of us have adopted; it's pretty good all-around. Restoration Angel is something that we've tried, and is not a very popular pick but isn't that out of the ordinary either. It's CMC=4, but it's flash, adds value, and is decently sized enough to do good work. Usually, people who only play 3 total Sun Titan + Elspeth, Sun's Champion will include 1-2 copies of Resto.
As for Gifts Ungiven, this is a card that got a lot of experimentation combined with Unburial Rites two or three years ago. It's not a bad card, but it really does feel like a very different deck/build than the traditional Sun Titan- and Emeria-based approaches we center on here.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
4x Lone Missionary
4x Sylvan Ranger
3x Elvish Visionary
3x Wall of Omens
3x Flickerwisp
2x Restoration Angel
1x Primeval Titan
3x Sun Titan
Spells:
4x Path to Exile
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Wrath of God
1x Day of Judgment (Surgical extraction is a thing)
2x Nissa, Vital Force
Land:
3x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Canopy Vista
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
2x Flooded Strand
7x Plains
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Rule of Law
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Stony Silence
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Seal of Primordium
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Back to Nature
1x Forest
I know you guys are less keen on the GW variety, and its probably incorrect to not run Renegade Rallier at all, but I found when using it that in the games it was good I was already far ahead, and when I was behind it was a miserable. Nissa has been exceptional, a real game winner when she drops, animating a land or getting back a permanent to be recast is super useful.
Does anyone have any helpful advice to make this more competitive. I ran the "stock" GW Rallier Emeria build through an MTGO league and just got absolutely wrecked so I'm experimenting!
Edit: Does anyone have any thoughts about Bishop of Rebirth as potential Sun Titan's 5-8?
Edit 2: Super corner case I know, but Wheel of Sun and Moon targeting yourself against a mill deck is absolutely hilarious.
GW Emeria Titan
WB Tokens
I actually wasn't considering PiF at all. Gifts Ungiven was evaluated a long time ago in the deck on it's own merit. It was incorporated into the build with Unburial Rites as a way to accelerate Sun Titan. People also used it as a way to tutor up Wrath by getting Verdict/Wrath/Day/Damnation.
As far as what to do on turns 4-8? I find casting more cantrips and Sun Titan to be pretty good.
It's definitely different than other Green-using builds I've seen of the deck. I'm not crazy about Visionary over the last Wall of Omens, since we're really not positioned to be aggressive and the Wall is better defensively. I also definitely like Sakura Tribe Elder more than Ranger. Nissa VF isn't great: Sun Titans and Emeria basically recur all of our permanents anyway. Eternal Witness could let us get spells, and be recurred itself though (Wrath + Witness + Emeria = infinite Wraths). Primeval Titan is nice, as it accelerates Emeria and finds GQs which can the combine with Sun Titan for a lockout. I'm not sure it doesn't overload the high mana, but it's pretty cool.
Bishop of Rebirth is limited in that it can only return creatures, has no cast trigger, and is far weaker. If I wanted more things in the 5-6 range, I'd be thinking about PWs and more Titans.
Wheel of Sun and Moon is one of the best answers to graveyard-strategies as well, since it's one-sided. Might be worth playing in the SB regardless.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Also played Storm recently and went 2 - 0 again. It can be done, just very...very unlikely in G1.
With Oath my biggest issue was cycling away wraths to the bottom of my deck, I was contemplating a wrath on a stick to counter that, maybe Cataclysmic Gearhulk but it just seems... Bad. The only other one I can think of is Magus of the Disk which seems even weaker.
I've budgeted 3 MTGO friendly leagues for December in which I'll be running GW Emeria, I'll let everyone know how I get on and which build I went for.
GW Emeria Titan
WB Tokens