I played this deck for the first time at FNM tonight (Saheeli version), and while I did win once with the Saheeli combo, and she helped out in some situations, she overall felt sort of out of place. Having another (More accessible) combo with her would definitely make including her much better. The fact that the new card is also syntergistic with the rest of the deck and not completely dead also further warrants testing.
They left out the part where Yawgmoth is resurrected,but has been cleansed as Yawgmoth the Redeemed,and now must awaken Chromium so that Karn can fuse with him and create what can only be known as : the ultimate taco.
Felidar Guardian can exile its twin, and an infinite loop can be done. Is there a card that deals 1 damage, or mill, or anything else that wins the game, whenever a creature or a permanent enters the battlefield under our control ?
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
The problem is that outside of the combo with Saheeli Rai (which can be a SB plan to surprise opponents) Felidar Guardian is a worse version of Restoration Angel which mostly doesn't see play in the deck because we can't get it back with Sun Titan.
I'm not sure if it is worth the maindeck slots or if a combo focused version of the deck would be better (it'll just be a worse version of "Jeskai Nahiri" imho).
The current version (with Saheeli Rai) can still occasionally combo-off with Sun Titan which closes the game quicker once assembled but can't "goldfish" turn 4 wins.
How about a new bannes list (gitaxian probe and golgari grave troll) is there any impact to our deck?
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Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
@Encohre
sadly I think u are right. But hey Tron still has it bad matchup like burn and affinity (its old nemesis)
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Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
Would you rather lose turn 3 to "Suicide Bloo"/"Death Shadow"/"Dredge" rather than play against "Tron" ? I don't know but neither option seems that great
(which brings me back to the fact that this deck's power level is too low and it has more bad match-ups than good ones).
@encohre well this deck is design to do well against aggressive deck but i have an exp that i juat kicked ass by goblin deck. My life at 12 and I get -2 dmg by enemy reckless bushwacker and get lethal damage by 2 goblin grenade (he have reckless bushwacker and 1 citizen foundry) talk about wow right.
My 2 cents is even though this deck is good on paper against aggro deck still dont underestimate them
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Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
Personally I don't think that Alesha is good enough for this deck, her ability isn't EtB but on attack (can be killed before doing anything and has no synergy with Flickerwisp) and also costs 2 mana which isn't particularly efficient imho.
Compare her to Eternal Witness or Renegade Rallier from Green which can do much more (can get not only creatures) on EtB without paying extra mana and are not legendary.
So far I've been very impressed by Nissa, Vital Force (helps out draw grindy/blue decks and avoid flooding) and Sakura-Tribe Elder which ramps me up rather quickly (6 mana on turn 4 isn't so rare).
Here is planned build (without the temporary substitutes):
This deck list looks sweet, D90Dennis14. I would think that the interaction between Ghost Quarter and Renegade Rallier is so good that you would want the fourth GQ, maybe in place of a fetchland or the third Emeria. I'm curious to hear how the Oath of Nissas work out. Did you consider keeping a blue splash for counterspells and going three colors?
This deck list looks sweet, D90Dennis14. I would think that the interaction between Ghost Quarter and Renegade Rallier is so good that you would want the fourth GQ
I've been messing around with the idea of a green splash in testing a bit, and sort of came to the same conclusion. I honestly think if your going to splash green for Renegade Rallier, you should play the full four. Its ability to play like a ghetto Fulminator Mage with a Ghost Quarter or Wood Elves with a Fetch Land has some real value too it. Let alone its ability to recur dead creatures if drawn into the lategame.
I've also found that more often then not I don't really want to cast an Oath of Nissa on turn 1 when I see a Renegade Rallier in my opening hand, because that usually means popping my fetch before turn 3 to get on green turn 1. At most I think 2 might be the sweet spot for Oath of Nissa.
Edit: Because of Renegade Rallier, I think I might play around with Serra Avenger as a 1-2 of. Gives renegade a decent late game target to recur, or even Sun Titan. Sun Titan > Flickerwisp > bounce Sun Titan > Serra Avenger feels powerful. 6 power on the ground and 6 power in the air for 6 mana is game defiantly ending.
Serra Avenger is a powerful card, I liked it a lot when I was playing another ghost quarter and creatures deck in modern death and taxes. It's a great source of pressure. Another decent two mana 3/3 flier is Smuggler's Copter.
If you're playing four Ralliers, would you consider Thraben Inspector or Mortarpods?
#I don't see how Serra Avenger is relevant for the deck, it is a dead draw early on and we have better things to do in the late game (also, it has no EtB value or synergy with Flickerwisp).
A decent Rallier target can be Voice of Resurgence, the token can get pretty big and Voice can interfere with decks that look to play on your turn.
#I'm not really a fan of counterspells in this deck and going 3-colors will put too much strain on the manabase if you want to keep a high Plains-count and enough Emeria and Ghost Quarter.
#I don't run 4x Ghost Quarter because I don't want to see multiples at all and especially in my opening hand, I also run 23x lands.
"Ghost Quarter-locking" (Strip Mine'ing) the opponent with Sun Titan (or R.Rallier) is a (very) late-game strategy that doesn't come up very often (at least to me).
#I don't have room for 4x Renegade Rallier as I don't want to cut Eternal Witness (the best lategame creature in the deck and the only source of PtE/Wrath recursion) and I don't think I even want 4x since while relatively easy to activate "Revolt" isn't a given in this deck.
#I consider Flickerwisp and Kitchen Finks as core pieces of the deck so they are an unquestionable 4x-of imho.
Serra Avenger is a powerful card, I liked it a lot when I was playing another ghost quarter and creatures deck in modern death and taxes. It's a great source of pressure. Another decent two mana 3/3 flier is Smuggler's Copter.
If you're playing four Ralliers, would you consider Thraben Inspector or Mortarpods?
I'm not a huge fan of Thraben Inspector. Only ever used it in a mono-white list I was playtesting before ordering the core of Emeria Control, and I almost never felt like spending 2 mana on the clue did anything. When almost everything you play also puts some form of card into your hand, you really just want to play those cards in your hand, not spend 2 mana to put another card in your hand.
That said, Mortarpod is in my current list I'm kicking around, list below.
#I don't run 4x Ghost Quarter because I don't want to see multiples at all and especially in my opening hand.
"Ghost Quarter-locking" (Strip Mine'ing) the opponent with Sun Titan (or R.Rallier) is a (very) late-game strategy that doesn't come up very often (at least to me).
You can still play a turn 3 Ghost Quarter tap your first 2 lands to float mana, tap-saq GQ to blow up your own land to pull a basic, tap basic play Renegade Rallier pull the destroyed land or GQ from your GY to go back up to 3 lands. Also relevant that you will also still have 1 mana up if you happen to pull back the destroyed land. So you can still have a white up for a Path or a green up for an Oath.
Its a semi sub-optimal play, but its still a play that gets you a 3/2 on the board thins your deck and can mind game your opponent with an open mana source.
Edit: As an aside, after playing with this deck a lot online over the past 2-3 weeks, nothing would make me more joyous then to see Wall of Blossoms reprinted in standard so I could play Wall of Omens 5-8. Of which, I would totally play 8 walls.
Used to be in it as a 2-3 of, currently testing without them. Just feels like I was always holding a witness in my hand waiting for something good to use it on, when I could just as easily play another creature that cantrips into more creatures, and so on.
It does have the ability to pull removal back from the yard tho, so I will probably add 2 back into the final list once I get around to it. Outside of putting a Path to Exile back into my hand tho, it's started to feel like Renegade Rallier does what Eternal Witness wants too, but slightly better as long as you tailor your list to the 2cmc requirement. This is partly why I'm still using Lone Missionary over Kitchen Finks.
#I don't see how Serra Avenger is relevant for the deck, it is a dead draw early on and we have better things to do in the late game (also, it has no EtB value or synergy with Flickerwisp).
A decent Rallier target can be Voice of Resurgence, the token can get pretty big and Voice can interfere with decks that look to play on your turn.
Only played maybe 10 games so far with a singleton Serra Avenger in the list, but the hands where I see her early have never really been a problem. The deck has so many turn 2 plays in it if you build around Renegade Rallier that she might be dead on those first three turns, but you have something else to do anyway.
As for her having no synergy with Flickerwisp, I don't really think she needs too. Shes not a 4 of slot, shes just a costed beat-stick that can help push through extra damage. By that same token, Voice of Resurgence has no synergy with Flickerwisp. That said, probably dropping her in favor of the idea below.
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I'm considering trying to find room for mana dorks. The idea of turn 1 land > Birds of Paradise into turn 2 fetch land > Renegade Rallier pulling back the fetch for turn 3 four lands plus mana dork, allowing for a turn 3 Wall of Omens + Flickerwisp or the like to reload your hand, or even just more Renegade Ralliers in "Wood Elves mode" using the same fetch to power out a turn 4 Sun Titan feels like something worth doing.
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeI'm not sure if it is worth the maindeck slots or if a combo focused version of the deck would be better (it'll just be a worse version of "Jeskai Nahiri" imho).
The current version (with Saheeli Rai) can still occasionally combo-off with Sun Titan which closes the game quicker once assembled but can't "goldfish" turn 4 wins.
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activesadly I think u are right. But hey Tron still has it bad matchup like burn and affinity (its old nemesis)
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot active(which brings me back to the fact that this deck's power level is too low and it has more bad match-ups than good ones).
My 2 cents is even though this deck is good on paper against aggro deck still dont underestimate them
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeCompare her to Eternal Witness or Renegade Rallier from Green which can do much more (can get not only creatures) on EtB without paying extra mana and are not legendary.
Btw, I've started some testing with G/W.
I still don't have 3x Oath of Nissa or the 2x Renegade Rallier so I used:
3x Elvish Visionary, the 3rd Eternal Witness and 4th Sun Titan instead.
So far I've been very impressed by Nissa, Vital Force (helps out draw grindy/blue decks and avoid flooding) and Sakura-Tribe Elder which ramps me up rather quickly (6 mana on turn 4 isn't so rare).
Here is planned build (without the temporary substitutes):
4x Wall of Omens
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Flickerwisp
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Renegade Rallier
2x Eternal Witness
3x Sun Titan
Enchantment (3)
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (2)
2x Nissa, Vital Force
Instant (6)
4x Path to Exile
2x Beast Within
3x Wrath of God
Land (23)
4x Windswept Heath
2x Flooded Strand
4x Temple Garden
1x Canopy Vista
5x Plains
1x Forest
3x Emeria, The Sky Ruin
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Beast Within
1x Ghostly Prison
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Runed Halo
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stony Silence
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
I've been messing around with the idea of a green splash in testing a bit, and sort of came to the same conclusion. I honestly think if your going to splash green for Renegade Rallier, you should play the full four. Its ability to play like a ghetto Fulminator Mage with a Ghost Quarter or Wood Elves with a Fetch Land has some real value too it. Let alone its ability to recur dead creatures if drawn into the lategame.
I've also found that more often then not I don't really want to cast an Oath of Nissa on turn 1 when I see a Renegade Rallier in my opening hand, because that usually means popping my fetch before turn 3 to get on green turn 1. At most I think 2 might be the sweet spot for Oath of Nissa.
Edit: Because of Renegade Rallier, I think I might play around with Serra Avenger as a 1-2 of. Gives renegade a decent late game target to recur, or even Sun Titan. Sun Titan > Flickerwisp > bounce Sun Titan > Serra Avenger feels powerful. 6 power on the ground and 6 power in the air for 6 mana is game defiantly ending.
If you're playing four Ralliers, would you consider Thraben Inspector or Mortarpods?
I'd love to pull off Sun Titan > Flickerwisp > bounce Sun Titan > Renegade Rallier > Serra Avenger
A decent Rallier target can be Voice of Resurgence, the token can get pretty big and Voice can interfere with decks that look to play on your turn.
#Smuggler's Copter might make more sense if you replace Wall of Omens with Elvish Visionary (a better option than Thraben Inspector most of the time).
Though you will lose one of the best blockers available for this deck.
#I'm not really a fan of counterspells in this deck and going 3-colors will put too much strain on the manabase if you want to keep a high Plains-count and enough Emeria and Ghost Quarter.
#I don't run 4x Ghost Quarter because I don't want to see multiples at all and especially in my opening hand, I also run 23x lands.
"Ghost Quarter-locking" (Strip Mine'ing) the opponent with Sun Titan (or R.Rallier) is a (very) late-game strategy that doesn't come up very often (at least to me).
#I don't have room for 4x Renegade Rallier as I don't want to cut Eternal Witness (the best lategame creature in the deck and the only source of PtE/Wrath recursion) and I don't think I even want 4x since while relatively easy to activate "Revolt" isn't a given in this deck.
#I consider Flickerwisp and Kitchen Finks as core pieces of the deck so they are an unquestionable 4x-of imho.
I've considered (still considering) Smuggler's Copter. My only issue is that to really ensure your ability to turn it on I'd want to drop the Wall of Omens for Elvish Visionarys.
I'm not a huge fan of Thraben Inspector. Only ever used it in a mono-white list I was playtesting before ordering the core of Emeria Control, and I almost never felt like spending 2 mana on the clue did anything. When almost everything you play also puts some form of card into your hand, you really just want to play those cards in your hand, not spend 2 mana to put another card in your hand.
That said, Mortarpod is in my current list I'm kicking around, list below.
4 Flickerwisp
4 Lone Missionary
4 Renegade Rallier
1 Saffi Eriksdotter (Serra Avenger?)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Omens
2 Mortarpod (Oath of Nissa?)
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
//LANDS: (24)
1 Canopy Vista
4 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
6 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
You can still play a turn 3 Ghost Quarter tap your first 2 lands to float mana, tap-saq GQ to blow up your own land to pull a basic, tap basic play Renegade Rallier pull the destroyed land or GQ from your GY to go back up to 3 lands. Also relevant that you will also still have 1 mana up if you happen to pull back the destroyed land. So you can still have a white up for a Path or a green up for an Oath.
Its a semi sub-optimal play, but its still a play that gets you a 3/2 on the board thins your deck and can mind game your opponent with an open mana source.
Edit: As an aside, after playing with this deck a lot online over the past 2-3 weeks, nothing would make me more joyous then to see Wall of Blossoms reprinted in standard so I could play Wall of Omens 5-8. Of which, I would totally play 8 walls.
Kueson,
Where is Eternal Witness in your list ?
It is literally our own Snapcaster Mage in this deck and the best reason to go into Green
(followed by: Renegade Rallier, Sakura-Tribe Elder (Sylvan Ranger), Nissa, Vital Force, Oath of Nissa and possibly Voice of Resurgence/Tireless Tracker/Primeval Titan/Scavenging Ooze).
Used to be in it as a 2-3 of, currently testing without them. Just feels like I was always holding a witness in my hand waiting for something good to use it on, when I could just as easily play another creature that cantrips into more creatures, and so on.
It does have the ability to pull removal back from the yard tho, so I will probably add 2 back into the final list once I get around to it. Outside of putting a Path to Exile back into my hand tho, it's started to feel like Renegade Rallier does what Eternal Witness wants too, but slightly better as long as you tailor your list to the 2cmc requirement. This is partly why I'm still using Lone Missionary over Kitchen Finks.
Only played maybe 10 games so far with a singleton Serra Avenger in the list, but the hands where I see her early have never really been a problem. The deck has so many turn 2 plays in it if you build around Renegade Rallier that she might be dead on those first three turns, but you have something else to do anyway.
As for her having no synergy with Flickerwisp, I don't really think she needs too. Shes not a 4 of slot, shes just a costed beat-stick that can help push through extra damage. By that same token, Voice of Resurgence has no synergy with Flickerwisp. That said, probably dropping her in favor of the idea below.
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I'm considering trying to find room for mana dorks. The idea of turn 1 land > Birds of Paradise into turn 2 fetch land > Renegade Rallier pulling back the fetch for turn 3 four lands plus mana dork, allowing for a turn 3 Wall of Omens + Flickerwisp or the like to reload your hand, or even just more Renegade Ralliers in "Wood Elves mode" using the same fetch to power out a turn 4 Sun Titan feels like something worth doing.