cmc3 hardcounters can be good depending on the meta, but wouldn't you rather have Counterflux instead? It gives utility versus blue combo decks, whereas the only thing I'd want to stifle for 3 mana would be Newlamog's cast trigger.
Someting I have been looking at is Summary Dismissal. cmc4 is rough but it both stifles and gets around cavern of souls. Honestly, something I'd really want to see would be a cmc3 "exile target spell"
Counterflux is generally better for sure. I'm just in wide-open testing mode. As far as Summary Dismissal, I just haven't ever felt like "yea. I wish I could stifle/exile this thing off the stack." It's kind of why I felt Disallow wasn't as strong as I wanted it to be. In most cases, I would've gotten more use from Dissolve, and that is a card I know I've liked in the past.
cmc3 hardcounters can be good depending on the meta, but wouldn't you rather have Counterflux instead? It gives utility versus blue combo decks, whereas the only thing I'd want to stifle for 3 mana would be Newlamog's cast trigger.
Someting I have been looking at is Summary Dismissal. cmc4 is rough but it both stifles and gets around cavern of souls. Honestly, something I'd really want to see would be a cmc3 "exile target spell"
Is counterflux fast enough to deal with combo though? At three mana, it seems rough to get online. Against what decks would you bring it in?
Counterflux ends Storm and Ad Nauseam shenanigans on its own.
cmc3 hardcounters can be good depending on the meta, but wouldn't you rather have Counterflux instead? It gives utility versus blue combo decks, whereas the only thing I'd want to stifle for 3 mana would be Newlamog's cast trigger.
Someting I have been looking at is Summary Dismissal. cmc4 is rough but it both stifles and gets around cavern of souls. Honestly, something I'd really want to see would be a cmc3 "exile target spell"
Is counterflux fast enough to deal with combo though? At three mana, it seems rough to get online. Against what decks would you bring it in?
Presumably against Ad Nauseam, UR Storm, and Cheeri0s you can delay with Snare/Remand/Leak/etc. and preserve Counterflux to counter Lightning Storm / Grapeshot / Empty the Warrens. Yes, it costs 3 mana (or 4 to overload vs. Grapeshot / Empty the Warrens), but given that it's uncounterable, you don't have to worry about mana inefficiency / tempo loss like you would for a 'normal' counterspell war. The main concern would be your opponent Remanding their own Grapeshot / Empty the Warrens to recast it, but you can't solve everything.
Lean on Path/Anger/Rest in Peace/Surgical Extraction. Izzet Staticaster from the sideboard is a good answer to Bloodghast. Remand probably stays in to counter Conflagrate.
If you want to beat dredge you have to devote quite some deck slots to it. 2x RIP and 2x Anger are a must, and probably a third grave hatepiece. You want to keep in countermagic as it is very good against their self-discard spells; Remand can be used against their flashback spells but is real bad against everything else, so in my it's the worst one. Negate is probably the best one.
What to take out is something we never got consensus on in this thread; personally I shave on Lightning Bolts, as they add very little to our clock and are of course awful removal spells. You can shave some AVs but they also show you more cards in your deck, and the entire matchup is about drawing your hatecards.
In my opinion you have to kind of choose between beating dredge or beating eldrazi right now: Any wrath other than Anger of the Gods is poor against dredge, but you really want Verdict versus the Eldrazidecks.
I've been playing with an Ajani in the main next to 4x Nahiri and it performed decently, however I would not want to play a deck right now that plans to win with Colonnade beats. Chaos21 mentioned Venser Shaper Savant which I do really like and I could see running a very controlling build with a top end of 2x Ajani, 2x Venser and 2x Resto as the wincons or something like that.
That set of win-cons that Bearscape mentioned is pretty much what I'm running.
My only problem match so far has been RG Breach. Everything else is manageable.
So with the banlist update bringing no changes we have a very clear view of what the meta is going to look like for the next few months. On one hand a lot of elements that are difficult for control to deal with are currently popular, but on the other hand the field is relatively monochrome which makes playing reactive easier. A large portion of the field consists of:
-creatures with 4+ toughness
-swarm strategies
-land-based decks
The former two we can very easily adapt to and Supreme Verdict is great versus both. The latter is more difficult and Modern does not have many tools to deal with these strategies other than racing them. I think that with a lighter manabase to run more Ghost Quarters, mainboard unconditional wraths and Crumble to Dust in the side, the meta is very doable right now.
So with the banlist update bringing no changes we have a very clear view of what the meta is going to look like for the next few months. On one hand a lot of elements that are difficult for control to deal with are currently popular, but on the other hand the field is relatively monochrome which makes playing reactive easier. A large portion of the field consists of:
-creatures with 4+ toughness
-swarm strategies
-land-based decks
The former two we can very easily adapt to and Supreme Verdict is great versus both. The latter is more difficult and Modern does not have many tools to deal with these strategies other than racing them. I think that with a lighter manabase to run more Ghost Quarters, mainboard unconditional wraths and Crumble to Dust in the side, the meta is very doable right now.
The last couple times I've played Modern, I've been testing a Jeskai Flash/Tempo deck with Clique, Spell Queller, and a couple Restoration Angels. The 'proactivity' is nice, as is only having four 4-drops (2 Restoration Angel, 2 Cryptic), all of which can be played at instant speed. The deck has some difficulties, but apart from the control mirrors, I've enjoyed getting my card draw from Electrolyze/Cryptic instead of AV, since they're live draws later in the game. There are some definite trade-offs, though -- particularly in the actual power of the deck (Nahiri is just a much stronger win condition, if she resolves and you can protect her).
Some of this experience and your comment both make me think of the question of mana curves that has been brought up a few times. I agree that Supreme Verdict seems better than Anger of the Gods right now (and especially good for Jeskai Harbinger, since we play effectively no creatures), but on the other hand, there is a risk of including too many 4-drops and/or dead draws (3-4 Nahiri, 1-2 Verdict, 1 Emrakul, 2-3 Ancestral Vision for the 'stock' build). Given the rise in 4+ toughness creatures, I wonder if we might be better served by cutting Helix and replacing it with 1-2 Condemn and 1-2 Blessed Alliance, with a Timely Reinforcements / Blessed Alliance in the side for the Burn matchup. Cutting Helix definitely puts us more 'all in' on the Nahiri plan, but I think that different builds of Jeskai are better suited to actually attack the opponent (Geist, Flash/Tempo, Draw-Go with Secure the Wastes), so perhaps focusing more on Nahiri makes sense. As a sketch, something like this, perhaps:
Helix is cut for more 'unconditional' (not toughness-based) removal. Ancestral Vision is cut for more Remands and a single Cryptic to put the opponent off-tempo and help us dig for Nahiri/etc., and to avoid dead draws later in the game (at least Remand can cycle immediately on turn 8). The sideboard is geared for grindy matchups (AV, Elspeth) and combo/land matchups (Clique, Geist, Crumble), as well as some general-purpose cards for difficult threats (EE, Staticaster, W/T, Purge, RiP).
Anyway, maybe this is the wrong approach. Food for thought/discussion, at least.
* * *
Haha, I just noticed that Blessed Alliance's lifegain mode actually lets you target. Imagine making a Death's Shadow player sacrifice a creature and gain life.
I actually stole a game with that against DSJ: my opponent attacked with a Death's Shadow and a Goyf, then I let him gain 4 and sac a creature to which he moved both to the graveyard. However because of how SBA works I think he would have actually been able to sack his 0/0 Death's Shadow
I've tested with Blessed Alliance main and cutting on Lightning Helix, but I often disliked it and wished I had drawn Helix instead. This might be a difference between LGS and higher level play, as Helix is just generally good against a ton of decks whilst Blessed is weaker overall but stronger versus the top tiers.
I've tried Condemn before. It's conditional as well, but it helps with decks like EldraziTron. It doesn't do anything much against Tron, Breach or Scapeshift decks and is actively not the type of removal we want in so many other situations. That's why I gave up on it. I wouldn't mind having it as a 1-of, but two is definitely too many imo.
EDIT: I assume you're using it for EldraziTron, but what are you trying to kill with it that you want two of those and two Blessed Alliance? That seems like a lot to take out of the Flash game.
The idea was to cut Helix but preserve some life gain, but you're probably right that 2 Blessed Alliance is probably too many. Just a quick brainstorm. Something like a 4 Bolt / 2 Helix / 4 Path / 2 Condemn split would probably be better.
Either Blessed Alliance or Condemn? Against decks with threats that don't die to Bolt or Helix -- Death's Shadow, Eldrazi, Goyf decks, Abzan (Grim Flayer & Seige Rhino can both be out of Bolt/Helix range), Tasigur/Gurmag, etc. Even against Voice of Resurgence, Condemn is better than Bolt/Helix. And with the Nahiri + Emrakul win condition, the lifegain doesn't matter quite as much. A little bit like how Legacy Miracles doesn't care about Swords to Plowshares because Jace or Mentor make it largely irrelevant. The point of the brainstorming was just that if the format is shifting to more 4+ toughness threats, Anger, Helix, and Bolt lose some value, and other non-toughness-based removal (Verdit, Condemn, etc.) gains value -- and might help enact the Nahiri + Emrakul plan.
Jeskai Harbinger placed 10th on the SCG Dallas Classic. No AV but with Sphinx Rev. I like how the list is streamlined to go all out protect the queen. Elspeth in the main with 2x Cryptics. I'm not sure if 24 lands can support 9 cards with CMC 4 or more though:
Kade Cantergiani
10th Place at StarCityGames.com Classic on 3/12/2017
Jeskai Harbinger placed 10th on the SCG Dallas Classic. No AV but with Sphinx Rev. I like how the list is streamlined to go all out protect the queen. Elspeth in the main with 2x Cryptics. I'm not sure if 24 lands can support 9 cards with CMC 4 or more though:
Kade Cantergiani
10th Place at StarCityGames.com Classic on 3/12/2017
I like the focus on Nahiri (though it's obviously not as extreme as what I was brainstorming, perhaps), and the card draw through Remand / Electrolyze / Cryptic / Sphinx's Revelation. It does seem like a stretch to try to fit 4 Nahiri, 1 Elspeth, 2 Cryptic, 1 Verdict, and 1 Revelation in the main deck on 24 lands though.
What about Roast, Stasis Snare or Detention Sphere? Are you limiting it to 2-cmc or less?
Roast is sorcery-speed and misses a few threats, but is interesting. Stasis Snare is 3 and can be Abrupt Decay'd, unlike Path to Exile or Condemn. Detention Sphere is much more interesting, but I would think it doesn't really serve the same function as Path/Condemn/etc. Also, neither Stasis Snare nor Detention Sphere can be Snap'd back, which IMO is a strike against using them as creature removal.
Counterflux is generally better for sure. I'm just in wide-open testing mode. As far as Summary Dismissal, I just haven't ever felt like "yea. I wish I could stifle/exile this thing off the stack." It's kind of why I felt Disallow wasn't as strong as I wanted it to be. In most cases, I would've gotten more use from Dissolve, and that is a card I know I've liked in the past.
Counterflux ends Storm and Ad Nauseam shenanigans on its own.
Presumably against Ad Nauseam, UR Storm, and Cheeri0s you can delay with Snare/Remand/Leak/etc. and preserve Counterflux to counter Lightning Storm / Grapeshot / Empty the Warrens. Yes, it costs 3 mana (or 4 to overload vs. Grapeshot / Empty the Warrens), but given that it's uncounterable, you don't have to worry about mana inefficiency / tempo loss like you would for a 'normal' counterspell war. The main concern would be your opponent Remanding their own Grapeshot / Empty the Warrens to recast it, but you can't solve everything.
Lean on Path/Anger/Rest in Peace/Surgical Extraction. Izzet Staticaster from the sideboard is a good answer to Bloodghast. Remand probably stays in to counter Conflagrate.
What to take out is something we never got consensus on in this thread; personally I shave on Lightning Bolts, as they add very little to our clock and are of course awful removal spells. You can shave some AVs but they also show you more cards in your deck, and the entire matchup is about drawing your hatecards.
In my opinion you have to kind of choose between beating dredge or beating eldrazi right now: Any wrath other than Anger of the Gods is poor against dredge, but you really want Verdict versus the Eldrazidecks.
As to Dredge, I just think we need to play less reactive spells if we are on Nahiri, and just play sweepers main and side.
Spirits
My only problem match so far has been RG Breach. Everything else is manageable.
-creatures with 4+ toughness
-swarm strategies
-land-based decks
The former two we can very easily adapt to and Supreme Verdict is great versus both. The latter is more difficult and Modern does not have many tools to deal with these strategies other than racing them. I think that with a lighter manabase to run more Ghost Quarters, mainboard unconditional wraths and Crumble to Dust in the side, the meta is very doable right now.
The last couple times I've played Modern, I've been testing a Jeskai Flash/Tempo deck with Clique, Spell Queller, and a couple Restoration Angels. The 'proactivity' is nice, as is only having four 4-drops (2 Restoration Angel, 2 Cryptic), all of which can be played at instant speed. The deck has some difficulties, but apart from the control mirrors, I've enjoyed getting my card draw from Electrolyze/Cryptic instead of AV, since they're live draws later in the game. There are some definite trade-offs, though -- particularly in the actual power of the deck (Nahiri is just a much stronger win condition, if she resolves and you can protect her).
Some of this experience and your comment both make me think of the question of mana curves that has been brought up a few times. I agree that Supreme Verdict seems better than Anger of the Gods right now (and especially good for Jeskai Harbinger, since we play effectively no creatures), but on the other hand, there is a risk of including too many 4-drops and/or dead draws (3-4 Nahiri, 1-2 Verdict, 1 Emrakul, 2-3 Ancestral Vision for the 'stock' build). Given the rise in 4+ toughness creatures, I wonder if we might be better served by cutting Helix and replacing it with 1-2 Condemn and 1-2 Blessed Alliance, with a Timely Reinforcements / Blessed Alliance in the side for the Burn matchup. Cutting Helix definitely puts us more 'all in' on the Nahiri plan, but I think that different builds of Jeskai are better suited to actually attack the opponent (Geist, Flash/Tempo, Draw-Go with Secure the Wastes), so perhaps focusing more on Nahiri makes sense. As a sketch, something like this, perhaps:
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Planeswalker (4)
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Instant (21)
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Condemn
1 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
Sorcery (6)
4 Serum Visions
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Celestial Purge
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear
Helix is cut for more 'unconditional' (not toughness-based) removal. Ancestral Vision is cut for more Remands and a single Cryptic to put the opponent off-tempo and help us dig for Nahiri/etc., and to avoid dead draws later in the game (at least Remand can cycle immediately on turn 8). The sideboard is geared for grindy matchups (AV, Elspeth) and combo/land matchups (Clique, Geist, Crumble), as well as some general-purpose cards for difficult threats (EE, Staticaster, W/T, Purge, RiP).
Anyway, maybe this is the wrong approach. Food for thought/discussion, at least.
* * *
Haha, I just noticed that Blessed Alliance's lifegain mode actually lets you target. Imagine making a Death's Shadow player sacrifice a creature and gain life.
I've tested with Blessed Alliance main and cutting on Lightning Helix, but I often disliked it and wished I had drawn Helix instead. This might be a difference between LGS and higher level play, as Helix is just generally good against a ton of decks whilst Blessed is weaker overall but stronger versus the top tiers.
EDIT: I assume you're using it for EldraziTron, but what are you trying to kill with it that you want two of those and two Blessed Alliance? That seems like a lot to take out of the Flash game.
Kade Cantergiani
10th Place at StarCityGames.com Classic on 3/12/2017
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (5)
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Lands (24)
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Serum Visions
1 Wrath of God
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Detention Sphere
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Wear
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Molten Rain
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Timely Reinforcements
I like the focus on Nahiri (though it's obviously not as extreme as what I was brainstorming, perhaps), and the card draw through Remand / Electrolyze / Cryptic / Sphinx's Revelation. It does seem like a stretch to try to fit 4 Nahiri, 1 Elspeth, 2 Cryptic, 1 Verdict, and 1 Revelation in the main deck on 24 lands though.
Roast is sorcery-speed and misses a few threats, but is interesting. Stasis Snare is 3 and can be Abrupt Decay'd, unlike Path to Exile or Condemn. Detention Sphere is much more interesting, but I would think it doesn't really serve the same function as Path/Condemn/etc. Also, neither Stasis Snare nor Detention Sphere can be Snap'd back, which IMO is a strike against using them as creature removal.