Less pump spells, more countermagic. They're focused on steadily climbing their way to the 10 poison damage instead of gunning for the one-shot and exposing themselves to a blowout.
Except they don't board out just pump for counter magic. They usually dump their flex slots (Dismember, Distortion Strike, Twisted Image) and maybe a couple of pump spells at best if they're playing a full set of Spell Pierce. I have never seen or heard of a U/G Infect player that really wants to board in more than 4 counter spells. Some also bring in a Wild Defiance to counteract a lot of damage-based (Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix). Even though most Infect pilots hate the mana cost, the effect is usually game ending for most tier 1 opponents. That combined with the addition of Blossoming Defense and Mutagenic Growth on top of going to four Become Immense main deck usually means they're far less reliant on counter magic anyway. Those cards do more than enough to protect from targeted removal not named Path to Exile. This deck and Zooicide play very similarly.
This is also why I said recently that I think this match has gotten worse for Jeskai Nahiri. It feels like not only are they more explosive, they're also more consistent now.
Less pump spells, more countermagic. They're focused on steadily climbing their way to the 10 poison damage instead of gunning for the one-shot and exposing themselves to a blowout.
Except they don't board out just pump for counter magic. They usually dump their flex slots (Dismember, Distortion Strike, Twisted Image) and maybe a couple of pump spells at best if they're playing a full set of Spell Pierce. I have never seen or heard of a U/G Infect player that really wants to board in more than 4 counter spells. Some also bring in a Wild Defiance to counteract a lot of damage-based (Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix). Even though most Infect pilots hate the mana cost, the effect is usually game ending for most tier 1 opponents. That combined with the addition of Blossoming Defense and Mutagenic Growth on top of going to four Become Immense main deck usually means they're far less reliant on counter magic anyway. Those cards do more than enough to protect from targeted removal not named Path to Exile. This deck and Zooicide play very similarly.
This is also why I said recently that I think this match has gotten worse for Jeskai Nahiri. It feels like not only are they more explosive, they're also more consistent now.
Not sure if we can fit it in Jeskai Nahiri; however, Spell Queller is an amazing tool vs infect.
Since I've started playing Spell Quller I've only lost three games vs infect. (out of 1-2 dozen).
With Spell Queller I find the only time I really loose vs infect is when I draw abysmal or make bad misplays. (or they draw the nut).
You're not wrong. Blossoming Defense has made the deck better against the field. I'm beginning to think that sweepers are a good backup plan against them.
Less pump spells, more countermagic. They're focused on steadily climbing their way to the 10 poison damage instead of gunning for the one-shot and exposing themselves to a blowout.
Except they don't board out just pump for counter magic. They usually dump their flex slots (Dismember, Distortion Strike, Twisted Image) and maybe a couple of pump spells at best if they're playing a full set of Spell Pierce. I have never seen or heard of a U/G Infect player that really wants to board in more than 4 counter spells. Some also bring in a Wild Defiance to counteract a lot of damage-based (Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix). Even though most Infect pilots hate the mana cost, the effect is usually game ending for most tier 1 opponents. That combined with the addition of Blossoming Defense and Mutagenic Growth on top of going to four Become Immense main deck usually means they're far less reliant on counter magic anyway. Those cards do more than enough to protect from targeted removal not named Path to Exile. This deck and Zooicide play very similarly.
This is also why I said recently that I think this match has gotten worse for Jeskai Nahiri. It feels like not only are they more explosive, they're also more consistent now.
Not sure if we can fit it in Jeskai Nahiri; however, Spell Queller is an amazing tool vs infect.
Since I've started playing Spell Quller I've only lost three games vs infect. (out of 1-2 dozen).
With Spell Queller I find the only time I really loose vs infect is when I draw abysmal or make bad misplays. (or they draw the nut).
No doubt, but Jeskai Flash has a better advantage than Jeskai Nahiri against Infect because Flash plays way more flying bodies that they don't have a decent chance to interact with outside of combat. Some of them even play Spellskite in the main deck.
Less pump spells, more countermagic. They're focused on steadily climbing their way to the 10 poison damage instead of gunning for the one-shot and exposing themselves to a blowout.
Except they don't board out just pump for counter magic. They usually dump their flex slots (Dismember, Distortion Strike, Twisted Image) and maybe a couple of pump spells at best if they're playing a full set of Spell Pierce. I have never seen or heard of a U/G Infect player that really wants to board in more than 4 counter spells. Some also bring in a Wild Defiance to counteract a lot of damage-based (Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix). Even though most Infect pilots hate the mana cost, the effect is usually game ending for most tier 1 opponents. That combined with the addition of Blossoming Defense and Mutagenic Growth on top of going to four Become Immense main deck usually means they're far less reliant on counter magic anyway. Those cards do more than enough to protect from targeted removal not named Path to Exile. This deck and Zooicide play very similarly.
This is also why I said recently that I think this match has gotten worse for Jeskai Nahiri. It feels like not only are they more explosive, they're also more consistent now.
Not sure if we can fit it in Jeskai Nahiri; however, Spell Queller is an amazing tool vs infect.
Since I've started playing Spell Quller I've only lost three games vs infect. (out of 1-2 dozen).
With Spell Queller I find the only time I really loose vs infect is when I draw abysmal or make bad misplays. (or they draw the nut).
No doubt, but Jeskai Flash has a better advantage than Jeskai Nahiri against Infect because Flash plays way more flying bodies that they don't have a decent chance to interact with outside of combat. Some of them even play Spellskite in the main deck.
I've thought about adding a couple Restos to the main to help with this issue. I used to run them in UWR Draw Go (I think I ran 2 or 3) and they were very good. They would have helped a lot against my loss to Bant Spirits last week. I would probably drop a Cryptic and the mainboard Timely for 2 of them.
Looking at the tier 1 decks, I'd want AV against Jund, Junk, and Bant Eldrazi. Against Infect, Burn, Affinity and Dredge, AV is subpar (but not unplayable). That is pretty close, so I can honestly go either way in running AV atm, and testing without it is worthwhile
I do want to press however that if people cut AV, it is to add more wincons and trying to "steal" wins. Cutting AV for more interaction is not correct.
Definitely. You're not cutting AV to run Cryptic and Electrolyze. You're cutting it to run devastating effects, like wraths and planeswalkers (Gideon/Ajani). These effects need to be better against the matchups where you don't really need AV, and substantial enough against BGx and grindy decks that you're not actively shooting yourself in the foot.
I find Ajani particularly good. If you slow down Infect to the point where you can drop an Ajani, you've basically won. You can screw their mana and screw their dude infinitely. It's also great against BGx decks because often they'll have that one creature which gets past removal, but Ajani hits. Against Eldrazi he's less useful because of the 1/1s they make, and the -2 Helix being not powerful enough on most targets, but as with all grindy decks, you can still squeeze out a win. Gideon is the clear choice when against Eldrazi.
Again, moving AV to the side with more wincons mainboard to try and steal some games against the fast aggro decks. Killing Joke of the evening: turns out this FNM's meta is actually incredibly grindy!
Match 1: Jund
Game 1 was fairly quick, I got two hits in with Vendilion Clique and finished my opponent off with Geist of Saint Traft. I cast four Path to Exile this game so my draw was very good
Game 2 took a little longer, and after some beatdown I managed to come back thanks to Blessed Alliance escalated to edict Kalitas, next turn snapcaster escalated Blessed Alliance to edict Goyf. After that I stabilized and resolved Elspeth Sun's Champion for the win. Engineered Explosives was a double edged sword this game as I got to use it to blow up LotV but also grew his goyfs to 6/7s
SB was something like +2 AV +2 Blessed +1 Elspeth +2 Verdict +1 Negate -1 Remand -2 Vendilion Clique -2 Geist -3 Lightning Helix
Match 2: Jund
This deck was really primed against the FNM's meta and had a ton of hate against Jeskai Nahiri. Game 1 I got double Thoughtseized, EE'd a LotV, then my opponent resolved Chandra, Torch of Defiance which plussed into another Thoughtseize and then ultimated uncontested to which I scooped.
Game 2 I left Cliques in as my opponent didn't see them and thus hopefully took out a ton of removal. My opponent opened on Nihil Spellbomb, played Lost Legacy naming Emrakul after I tapped out for Nahiri, and Vendilion Clique revealed Blood Moon and Liliana, the Last Hope! Shows me for preparing for a fast meta. Clique beats got there together with a boltsnapbolt.
I had only seen Goyf and Bob for my opponent's creatures so far, so for Game 3 I brought in Negates and sided out a Nahiri for a Geist to have another wincon. I did in fact get Nahiri taken out of my deck with Lost Legacy this game. I got to Elspeth and plussed her once but then she got Dreadbored, but the tokens made me resolve Geist without fear of LotV and closed out the game. AV was the true MVP in both these postboard games btw
SB was +2 AV +2 Blessed +1 Elspeth +2 Verdict -1 Mana Leak -1 Remand -2 Geist -3 Lightning Helix for game 2, then +1 Geist +2 Negate -2 Blessed -1 Nahiri for game 3
Match 3: Grixis brew
My opponent opened on Goblin guide then Lava Spiked me + suspended Rift Bolt turn 2, but off a Blood Crypt and Spirebluff Canal so I was a bit puzzled. I had to Path to Exile very early as it was my only answer to the Goblin Guide but got to stabilize off Lightning Helix and my opponent had to double bolt Nahiri after which Geist closed out the game.
Game 2 was really strange as my opponent didn'y play anything turn 1 and 2 then cast Liliana, the Last Hope into a Negate. I decided to just end the game asap and went boltsnapbolt helixsnaphelix which closed the game real quick. It turns out my opponent was running a transformative sideboard, taking out 15 burn cards for 15 control cards
Match 4: Jeskai Nahiri
This was a very cool game. My opponent's list was much more primed against the grindy matchups, and he ran Desolate lighthouse and 3x Cryptic Command. Game 1 I got very far with a resolved Geist, got a fun play where I cast Engineered Explosived on 2 to stop ambush Snapcasters but my opponent countered it, and eventually Geist got Supreme Verdicted. My opponent ended on 4 life and I had Celestial Colonnade open, but I also knew he had a Path to Exile off Cliquing him several turns earlier. He overwhelmed me with cryptic command card advantage and then closed the game with Nahiri.
Game 2 Surgical Extraction was the true MVP. I sadly don't know the exact line anymore (it was about resolving Geist) but I had to make play A if my opponent had a cmc2 counterspell and play B if he had not, so I Surgical Extracted his Serum Visions just so I could see his hand! This play won me this game and also showed me he had a Snapcaster Mage, so some turns down the line I got to respond to his cracked fetch to snap+surgical the snapcaster in his graveyard while he was unable to cast it. After that, geist got there
Game 3 was incredibly close, with multiple Nahiris from both sides. I got my opponent down to 2 life here but he stabilised with two Lightning Helixes and I died to Colonnade and Snap beatdown. I made a very big mistake in this game which I think changed the outcome, looting away a Remand that could have saved my Nahiri from a flashbacked Celestial Purge.
SB was +1 Dispel +2 Negate +2 AV +2 Surgical +1 Elspeth -4 Path -2 EE -1 Mana Leak -1 Bolt
So in total I went 3-1, ironically against a field I shifted my mainboard plan away from. I was a bit bummed by the misplay in the last game (honestly I think my only true misplay of the evening) but I won two packs and opened a Masterpiece Hangarback Walker!
-I really liked the mainboard Geist plan. It's a bummer I did not get to test it against the fast aggro decks but the philosophy panned out, even against the decks where I really wanted AV
-I did not ultimate Nahiri a single time the entire evening but she still got a lot of work in, netting me four 2-for-1s plus loots from the top of my head
-I never really realized the hidden Peek mode on Surgical Extraction and it was good enough that I am keeping SE over RIP for now. The versatility is also really nice
-AV is still a damn good card and I missed it mainboard, of course versus all these grindy decks but even against the grixis burn deck I was considering siding it in. I might try to fit in two AVs main or something, requires more testing
-EE was a strange card in these matches. On one side it was useful every time I had it, but on the other side it was also always kind of mediocre. I didn't play against the decks where EE really shines though so I'll have to test some more
What matchups would you want it against?
Against dredge we can just play rest in peace, and against most everything else, we can just play wrath of god.
Thoughts/opinions are appreciated, but I think this is what I have decided on for tomorrow.
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Not sure I understand what the spell pierce is doing here.
A mainboard dispel, or another leak/snare is probably better.
Otherwise, it looks pretty good.
I've found Spell Pierce good in the current meta as no one is expecting it. It's great in your opening hand against the various aggro decks running rampant at the moment and while it gets worse fast, often you can just pitch it to Nahiri's ability at that point anyway.
I would drop 1 AV & 1 SV for 2 more Remands and swap a Wrath for one of the Angers. There are just too many fatties out there that Anger won't deal with IMHO.
Cringed watching all these people trying to beat Dredge with Relic and just getting run over. That card is close to unplayable in this meta.
Agreed. The only decks that can afford to run Relic are ones that are combining it with other cards that disrupt Dredge, or that already had a pretty good Dredge matchup to begin with. In the case of Jeskai Nahiri, it's Rest in Peace or bust.
Match 4: Jeskai Nahiri
This was a very cool game. My opponent's list was much more primed against the grindy matchups, and he ran Desolate lighthouse and 3x Cryptic Command. Game 1 I got very far with a resolved Geist, got a fun play where I cast Engineered Explosived on 2 to stop ambush Snapcasters but my opponent countered it, and eventually Geist got Supreme Verdicted. My opponent ended on 4 life and I had Celestial Colonnade open, but I also knew he had a Path to Exile off Cliquing him several turns earlier. He overwhelmed me with cryptic command card advantage and then closed the game with Nahiri.
Game 2 Surgical Extraction was the true MVP. I sadly don't know the exact line anymore (it was about resolving Geist) but I had to make play A if my opponent had a cmc2 counterspell and play B if he had not, so I Surgical Extracted his Serum Visions just so I could see his hand! This play won me this game and also showed me he had a Snapcaster Mage, so some turns down the line I got to respond to his cracked fetch to snap+surgical the snapcaster in his graveyard while he was unable to cast it. After that, geist got there
Game 3 was incredibly close, with multiple Nahiris from both sides. I got my opponent down to 2 life here but he stabilised with two Lightning Helixes and I died to Colonnade and Snap beatdown. I made a very big mistake in this game which I think changed the outcome, looting away a Remand that could have saved my Nahiri from a flashbacked Celestial Purge.
SB was +1 Dispel +2 Negate +2 AV +2 Surgical +1 Elspeth -4 Path -2 EE -1 Mana Leak -1 Bolt
So in total I went 3-1, ironically against a field I shifted my mainboard plan away from. I was a bit bummed by the misplay in the last game (honestly I think my only true misplay of the evening) but I won two packs and opened a Masterpiece Hangarback Walker!
-I really liked the mainboard Geist plan. It's a bummer I did not get to test it against the fast aggro decks but the philosophy panned out, even against the decks where I really wanted AV
-I did not ultimate Nahiri a single time the entire evening but she still got a lot of work in, netting me four 2-for-1s plus loots from the top of my head
-I never really realized the hidden Peek mode on Surgical Extraction and it was good enough that I am keeping SE over RIP for now. The versatility is also really nice
-AV is still a damn good card and I missed it mainboard, of course versus all these grindy decks but even against the grixis burn deck I was considering siding it in. I might try to fit in two AVs main or something, requires more testing
-EE was a strange card in these matches. On one side it was useful every time I had it, but on the other side it was also always kind of mediocre. I didn't play against the decks where EE really shines though so I'll have to test some more
Thanks for the write-up. I'm glad to hear that Surgical Extraction had some value for you, if only to confirm that I'm not a complete idiot. Still not sure it's worth it over Rest in Peace, but it does have some different applications. I've never even considered using it as a pseudo-Peek. I'll have to keep that in mind!
I'd be interested to see how you feel about mainboard Geist of Saint Traft against more creature-heavy decks where you might not be as able to push through damage, but it seems like you had good matchups for including him in the main.
I moved AV back to main, cutting the 24th land and moving one EE to the side. I also put an Anger in the side again. I played several games against my friend's zoo deck, the matchup where I think Geist would be at its worst and even there he got to steal some game 1s (I'd still cut him postside though)
I also did several postside runs against Dredge online against a friend and honestly, Surgical Extraction might just be better versus Dredge than RIP:
Dredge players expect RIP and will bring in counterhate which they can mull to. It is much harder for them to interact with SE however
On the draw, RIP can actually be too slow; with a fast opener Dredge can easily have four bodies turn two before rip even comes down which can be tough to come back from even if they never get rid of RIP
More opening hands with SE are keepable, like onelanders or no white sources
Whilst RIP has to hit the board asap, SE can be held back until the right moment and cast at any time, even when you're tapped out.
It can be tough to assess when to hit which card I have to say; generally the right targets are Bloodghast and Prized Amalgam, and sometimes their dredger. The first SE will greatly slow them down after which you can race with Nahiri or Geist, the second one (very doable off Snapcaster) will make them scoop.
I do have to say I'm still not sure how to side against Dredge: I want to bring in 6 cards (EE, Anger, Verdict, Staticaster and 2 SE) but only really want to cut the two Cliques. Games go long enough for AV to be good, counterspells are very relevant, spot removal can buy a lot of time, and Geist can close out the game really quick as they don't have many blockers. I varied the four cards I need to cut but I'm not satisfied yet
Except they don't board out just pump for counter magic. They usually dump their flex slots (Dismember, Distortion Strike, Twisted Image) and maybe a couple of pump spells at best if they're playing a full set of Spell Pierce. I have never seen or heard of a U/G Infect player that really wants to board in more than 4 counter spells. Some also bring in a Wild Defiance to counteract a lot of damage-based (Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix). Even though most Infect pilots hate the mana cost, the effect is usually game ending for most tier 1 opponents. That combined with the addition of Blossoming Defense and Mutagenic Growth on top of going to four Become Immense main deck usually means they're far less reliant on counter magic anyway. Those cards do more than enough to protect from targeted removal not named Path to Exile. This deck and Zooicide play very similarly.
This is also why I said recently that I think this match has gotten worse for Jeskai Nahiri. It feels like not only are they more explosive, they're also more consistent now.
Not sure if we can fit it in Jeskai Nahiri; however, Spell Queller is an amazing tool vs infect.
Since I've started playing Spell Quller I've only lost three games vs infect. (out of 1-2 dozen).
With Spell Queller I find the only time I really loose vs infect is when I draw abysmal or make bad misplays. (or they draw the nut).
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Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
No doubt, but Jeskai Flash has a better advantage than Jeskai Nahiri against Infect because Flash plays way more flying bodies that they don't have a decent chance to interact with outside of combat. Some of them even play Spellskite in the main deck.
I've thought about adding a couple Restos to the main to help with this issue. I used to run them in UWR Draw Go (I think I ran 2 or 3) and they were very good. They would have helped a lot against my loss to Bant Spirits last week. I would probably drop a Cryptic and the mainboard Timely for 2 of them.
Definitely. You're not cutting AV to run Cryptic and Electrolyze. You're cutting it to run devastating effects, like wraths and planeswalkers (Gideon/Ajani). These effects need to be better against the matchups where you don't really need AV, and substantial enough against BGx and grindy decks that you're not actively shooting yourself in the foot.
I find Ajani particularly good. If you slow down Infect to the point where you can drop an Ajani, you've basically won. You can screw their mana and screw their dude infinitely. It's also great against BGx decks because often they'll have that one creature which gets past removal, but Ajani hits. Against Eldrazi he's less useful because of the 1/1s they make, and the -2 Helix being not powerful enough on most targets, but as with all grindy decks, you can still squeeze out a win. Gideon is the clear choice when against Eldrazi.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Remand
2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Serum Visions
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Negate
1 Stony Silence
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancestral Vision
1 Dispel
Again, moving AV to the side with more wincons mainboard to try and steal some games against the fast aggro decks. Killing Joke of the evening: turns out this FNM's meta is actually incredibly grindy!
Match 1: Jund
Game 1 was fairly quick, I got two hits in with Vendilion Clique and finished my opponent off with Geist of Saint Traft. I cast four Path to Exile this game so my draw was very good
Game 2 took a little longer, and after some beatdown I managed to come back thanks to Blessed Alliance escalated to edict Kalitas, next turn snapcaster escalated Blessed Alliance to edict Goyf. After that I stabilized and resolved Elspeth Sun's Champion for the win. Engineered Explosives was a double edged sword this game as I got to use it to blow up LotV but also grew his goyfs to 6/7s
SB was something like +2 AV +2 Blessed +1 Elspeth +2 Verdict +1 Negate -1 Remand -2 Vendilion Clique -2 Geist -3 Lightning Helix
Match 2: Jund
This deck was really primed against the FNM's meta and had a ton of hate against Jeskai Nahiri. Game 1 I got double Thoughtseized, EE'd a LotV, then my opponent resolved Chandra, Torch of Defiance which plussed into another Thoughtseize and then ultimated uncontested to which I scooped.
Game 2 I left Cliques in as my opponent didn't see them and thus hopefully took out a ton of removal. My opponent opened on Nihil Spellbomb, played Lost Legacy naming Emrakul after I tapped out for Nahiri, and Vendilion Clique revealed Blood Moon and Liliana, the Last Hope! Shows me for preparing for a fast meta. Clique beats got there together with a boltsnapbolt.
I had only seen Goyf and Bob for my opponent's creatures so far, so for Game 3 I brought in Negates and sided out a Nahiri for a Geist to have another wincon. I did in fact get Nahiri taken out of my deck with Lost Legacy this game. I got to Elspeth and plussed her once but then she got Dreadbored, but the tokens made me resolve Geist without fear of LotV and closed out the game. AV was the true MVP in both these postboard games btw
SB was +2 AV +2 Blessed +1 Elspeth +2 Verdict -1 Mana Leak -1 Remand -2 Geist -3 Lightning Helix for game 2, then +1 Geist +2 Negate -2 Blessed -1 Nahiri for game 3
Match 3: Grixis brew
My opponent opened on Goblin guide then Lava Spiked me + suspended Rift Bolt turn 2, but off a Blood Crypt and Spirebluff Canal so I was a bit puzzled. I had to Path to Exile very early as it was my only answer to the Goblin Guide but got to stabilize off Lightning Helix and my opponent had to double bolt Nahiri after which Geist closed out the game.
Game 2 was really strange as my opponent didn'y play anything turn 1 and 2 then cast Liliana, the Last Hope into a Negate. I decided to just end the game asap and went boltsnapbolt helixsnaphelix which closed the game real quick. It turns out my opponent was running a transformative sideboard, taking out 15 burn cards for 15 control cards
SB was +2 Blessed +2 Negate +1 Dispel -1 Remand -2 Clique -1 Engineered Explosives -1 Ghost Quarter
Match 4: Jeskai Nahiri
This was a very cool game. My opponent's list was much more primed against the grindy matchups, and he ran Desolate lighthouse and 3x Cryptic Command. Game 1 I got very far with a resolved Geist, got a fun play where I cast Engineered Explosived on 2 to stop ambush Snapcasters but my opponent countered it, and eventually Geist got Supreme Verdicted. My opponent ended on 4 life and I had Celestial Colonnade open, but I also knew he had a Path to Exile off Cliquing him several turns earlier. He overwhelmed me with cryptic command card advantage and then closed the game with Nahiri.
Game 2 Surgical Extraction was the true MVP. I sadly don't know the exact line anymore (it was about resolving Geist) but I had to make play A if my opponent had a cmc2 counterspell and play B if he had not, so I Surgical Extracted his Serum Visions just so I could see his hand! This play won me this game and also showed me he had a Snapcaster Mage, so some turns down the line I got to respond to his cracked fetch to snap+surgical the snapcaster in his graveyard while he was unable to cast it. After that, geist got there
Game 3 was incredibly close, with multiple Nahiris from both sides. I got my opponent down to 2 life here but he stabilised with two Lightning Helixes and I died to Colonnade and Snap beatdown. I made a very big mistake in this game which I think changed the outcome, looting away a Remand that could have saved my Nahiri from a flashbacked Celestial Purge.
SB was +1 Dispel +2 Negate +2 AV +2 Surgical +1 Elspeth -4 Path -2 EE -1 Mana Leak -1 Bolt
So in total I went 3-1, ironically against a field I shifted my mainboard plan away from. I was a bit bummed by the misplay in the last game (honestly I think my only true misplay of the evening) but I won two packs and opened a Masterpiece Hangarback Walker!
-I really liked the mainboard Geist plan. It's a bummer I did not get to test it against the fast aggro decks but the philosophy panned out, even against the decks where I really wanted AV
-I did not ultimate Nahiri a single time the entire evening but she still got a lot of work in, netting me four 2-for-1s plus loots from the top of my head
-I never really realized the hidden Peek mode on Surgical Extraction and it was good enough that I am keeping SE over RIP for now. The versatility is also really nice
-AV is still a damn good card and I missed it mainboard, of course versus all these grindy decks but even against the grixis burn deck I was considering siding it in. I might try to fit in two AVs main or something, requires more testing
-EE was a strange card in these matches. On one side it was useful every time I had it, but on the other side it was also always kind of mediocre. I didn't play against the decks where EE really shines though so I'll have to test some more
Beat Scapeshift and RUG Delver, lost to Grixis 'Jund' and Bant Spirits.
The Bant Spirits matchup feels impossible. I think Esper Spirits with Souls would be even worse. That is a real bad time.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Against dredge we can just play rest in peace, and against most everything else, we can just play wrath of god.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Spirebluff Canal
1x Steam Vents
Creature (6)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Cryptic Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
1x Remand
1x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
Sorcery (9)
3x Ancestral Vision
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Serum Visions
Planeswalker (4)
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Celestial Purge
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
1x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Wear / Tear
Thoughts/opinions are appreciated, but I think this is what I have decided on for tomorrow.
A mainboard dispel, or another leak/snare is probably better.
Otherwise, it looks pretty good.
Change the Spell Pierce to ANY of Spell Snare, Mana Leak or Remand and the list looks solid. Good luck!
Cringed watching all these people trying to beat Dredge with Relic and just getting run over. That card is close to unplayable in this meta.
I would drop 1 AV & 1 SV for 2 more Remands and swap a Wrath for one of the Angers. There are just too many fatties out there that Anger won't deal with IMHO.
Agreed. The only decks that can afford to run Relic are ones that are combining it with other cards that disrupt Dredge, or that already had a pretty good Dredge matchup to begin with. In the case of Jeskai Nahiri, it's Rest in Peace or bust.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Thanks for the write-up. I'm glad to hear that Surgical Extraction had some value for you, if only to confirm that I'm not a complete idiot. Still not sure it's worth it over Rest in Peace, but it does have some different applications. I've never even considered using it as a pseudo-Peek. I'll have to keep that in mind!
I'd be interested to see how you feel about mainboard Geist of Saint Traft against more creature-heavy decks where you might not be as able to push through damage, but it seems like you had good matchups for including him in the main.
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Remand
2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancestral Vision
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Negate
1 Stony Silence
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
I moved AV back to main, cutting the 24th land and moving one EE to the side. I also put an Anger in the side again. I played several games against my friend's zoo deck, the matchup where I think Geist would be at its worst and even there he got to steal some game 1s (I'd still cut him postside though)
I also did several postside runs against Dredge online against a friend and honestly, Surgical Extraction might just be better versus Dredge than RIP:
It can be tough to assess when to hit which card I have to say; generally the right targets are Bloodghast and Prized Amalgam, and sometimes their dredger. The first SE will greatly slow them down after which you can race with Nahiri or Geist, the second one (very doable off Snapcaster) will make them scoop.
I do have to say I'm still not sure how to side against Dredge: I want to bring in 6 cards (EE, Anger, Verdict, Staticaster and 2 SE) but only really want to cut the two Cliques. Games go long enough for AV to be good, counterspells are very relevant, spot removal can buy a lot of time, and Geist can close out the game really quick as they don't have many blockers. I varied the four cards I need to cut but I'm not satisfied yet